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Dan Miller's avatar

I've seen two places now where Agent Orange has given Wiles and Scharf unrestricted use of his autopen. The suggestion was that he is engaging in severe projection of his own behavior by accusing Biden of doing it first.

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Katy Namovicz's avatar

Every word that ever comes out of his mouth is projection and/or confession. He's like a child taunting, "I am rubber, you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you." The remarkable thing is that he's right. He pardons hundreds of J6 hooligans (tried and sentenced hooligans), and then claims that Biden's pardons of the J6 Committee are "fraudulent and illegal". Somehow, the public at large is ok with the J6 hooligan pardons, but not the Biden pardons. It bounced off of Trump and stuck to Biden. (Where is the Democrat response to this??)

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PAMELA WEHMEYER's avatar

I just replied to something below and now am wondering if anyone else has thought this through....George Conway, care to opine? When laws and judgements are broken or disobeyed by Trump, who is to say we really have to obey him now? He's got a ton of EO's, but wouldn't his own actions make his laws conversely moot too? Not to encourage anarchy here....but.....there's 173.4 million that disapprove of him and could dismiss his edicts. There is a double edge to his "sword". Who the hell else thinks so? Sorry for the gruesomeness....but we keep seeing how outrageous this gets. This talk is not going away.

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Bob From Arizona's avatar

Perhaps we should not compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. That may be unfair to the German people of the early 1930's. Americans, collectively, may be on a path to surpassing the folly and decadence of the German electorate of 1930 through 1932. In the early 1930's the German economy was actually collapsing and, they had, in there multi-party system, a strong Communist party that actually openly claimed to be loyal to Stalin. Many Germans were motivated to vote for the Nazis in order to vote against the Communists. Many Germans would have perceived the (democratic) Wiemar Republic as being a creature of the widely hated Versailles treaty. The Weimar republic was only as old for them than would be our system if it had been established in 2011. Hitler was an unhinged antisemitic extremist, but, in his speeches, for the most part, from, say 1928 through 1932, he presented himself as being normal, reasonable, articulate and even educated, and self-educated at that. Of course, he did propagandize absurd conspiracy theories that blamed Germany's ills and misfortunes on his favorite scapegoats - the Jews (who were only 1% of the population but somehow were engaging in vast conspiracies to control and oppress "the German people" - "Die Volk"). So, German Jews were understandably opposed to Hitler early on. But even they could not have predicted the holocaust. (see Lion Freuchtwanger's 1934 novel "The Oppermanns") The vast majority of Germans in 1932 probably could not see Hitler's demonic pathology and certainly could not have predicted the breathtaking moral catastrophe that was the Third Reich in 1942. Likely, many elite German in pre-1933 Germany read Mien Kampf but probably dismissed the unhinged antisemitic and territorial expansionist portions of the book as not being serious proposals that he would pursue. It appears to be universal that normal people have a tendency to not believe morally depraved tyrants when they loudly and proudly talk like, well, morally depraved tyrants. Thus, I propose that if one were to conduct a side by side comparison of Hitler's public statements between 1930 and 1932 and Donald Trump's public statements between 2022 and 2024, it could be argued that Donald Trump presented himself, in his context, as more authoritarian, more radical, and more prone to being divorced from truth and reality and more prone to engage in lawlessness, cruelty and creating chaos and, of course, division, than was the case with Hitler. The electoral high watermark for the Nazi party, prior to Hitler actually taking power on January 30, 1933 was 37.27 % of the vote in the election of July 1932, well below the 49% that Trump gained in 2024. Thus, we may have reason to believe, that in the future, there may be a case for Historians to judge the American electorate of 2024 more harshly than they have, at least until now, judged the German electorate from 1930 through 1932.

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Katy Namovicz's avatar

Very interesting perspective - and devastating to Americans. How much did factors of education (or lack thereof, of mediocre quality) and decadence (which I have recently seen posited as explanations of the plurality's unconscionable 2024 vote) play in 1930's Germany? I'm thinking probably nowhere near as much as they played in 2024. At least the Germans had something definable to motivate their loyalty to Hitler (even if it was just animus toward Versailles and the Communists). MAGA Americans are so good at playing the victim in the face of nothing more than their own poor choices.

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Old Chemist 11's avatar

"Used to be you’d see Highly Serious People arguing that Donald Trump was simply too goofy, undisciplined, and unserious to present any true authoritarian threat to the nation."

I still argue that. And add the same thing I did 8 years ago, which is that his only interest is his own instant gratification. He will go along with anyone or anything that feeds it, whatever effect that may have on the course of the country. But - and that's a "yuge" but - for those 8 years and more he has been surrounded by an army of rabid authoritarians who are disciplined and dead serious; determined to replace the Republic with a dictatorship, headed by a perfect "useful idiot." With 1000s (millions?) of wannabes waiting in line, 8 years of "natural selection" has replaced all potential "guardrails" with committed authoritarians. Calling Trump goofy, undisciplined and unserious does not mean that we're not on a "slippery slope." In retrospect we have been on it for at least 8 years.

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PAMELA WEHMEYER's avatar

He is pretty easy to distract. But he's also vicious when things don't go his way.

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Old Chemist 11's avatar

Yes, vicious as in throwing his food on the wall. But when truly confronted, he always backs down. Such as when some of his "protectors" threatened to resign when he tried to hire Jeffrey Clark as AG. Unfortunately he was rarely confronted even in his first term, because his "protectors" immediate interests usually coincide with his. The ones who differed found themselves increasing outnumbered, and no longer even apply for the job.

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PAMELA WEHMEYER's avatar

The dangerous thing about this is that those with any expertise or knowledge wouldn't be caught near him. This time the shit show is really a shit show.

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SoCal Dave's avatar

I can't wait for the day we can all look back on this and think "how could that aberration have happened, good thing it is over"

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Kentuckistan's avatar

Putins been running Russia for 25 years. Franco took over Spain in the late 30's and was still in power 40 years later. At 61 I don't have that long

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SoCal Dave's avatar

"Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead."

if you're 61, your should probably recognize this quote

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Howid's avatar

Nobody took Hitler or Mussolini seriously at first. Just like none of us took Trump seriously at first. Now he’s back, breaking laws, openly defying judges, and trying to erase history. Anybody see a pattern?

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PAMELA WEHMEYER's avatar

Oddly, how about this? If Trump disobeys laws and judgements.....why can't we disobey him? His little experiment with autocracy has a double edge.....and that's called anarchy...if he is so powerful, can he really subdue all 340 million of us little ANTIFA's?

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Matt Gibson's avatar

A comment I've seen a few times when people liken the current situation over in the USA with 1930's Germany, is that it can't happen in America because Trump doesn't have his own 'army'. I disagree with this completely, much to the dismay of many of my American friends.

Hitler's Sturmabteilung (Storm Troopers) were not much different to your various militias, except in the fact that they were under one banner. They were made up of disaffected WW1 veterans, many unemployed and the majority struggling financially under Germany's terrible economy at the time (caused by the recall of American loans after the Wall St crash). America's economy was the opposite to 30's Germany as Trump moved towards his second term, but it didn't HAVE to be bad, he just had to constantly say that it was for his cult to believe him. The best lies have a kernel of truth, the people Trump was appealing to didn't feel a great economy day to day. Does anyone really believe that Trump doesn't have his own army, especially after he proved with the Jan 6th pardons that he has their backs if they fight for him?

Hitler failed in trying to take the government by force (November 8th 1923) as did Trump on Jan 6th 2021. Hitler made great inroads in gaining voters from the working class, preying on their fears about affordability, employment, immigrants, etc. He promised to cut prices, create jobs and kick out the foreigners leeching off the German people, and to make Germany strong again (we are still talking about Hitler here). You know how the story goes after that, but there is one thing that many people forget. The Holocaust was a horrendous example of the worst that mankind can be, but it was not just the Jewish people that suffered.

In mid 1933 the Nazi's targetted those with physical or mental disabilities (including addictions like alcholism) with the "Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring". This involved the compulsory sterilisation of hundreds of thousands of people, and then they moved on to killing. Then they went after gypsies, blacks, LGB+ and anyone they considered to be non-Aryan, which of course included the Jewish peoples of Europe.

Do I think Trump would go that far? To be quite frank I don't think he cares one way or the other, it's all about power and money to him. I have no confidence whatsoever in the people he surrounds himself with, many of whom are proven racists and some that appear to have Master Race thinking in their plans (that's what white supremecy is). MAGA may not go as far as the Nazis, and I certainly hope they don't - but hope doesn't stop bad things from happening.

I watch on as America's corporations & media organisations take the knee, I listen as politicians who yesterday spoke loudly about their principles who now hold the opposite view. I notice the empty void where former Presidents should be standing as one, denouncing what is happening. Clinton, Bush, Obama & Biden - you all seem to have forgotten the oath you swore to the American people. As Tim has rightly pointed out where are the Genocide Joe protesters when the current POTUS talks about the ethnic cleansing of GAZA, or are they taking the knee like MSNBC who removed the hosts who talked about Palestine too much for the network's liking,

Look out for your neighbours and your local community in the times that come. Do not trust that norms will hold, that laws will stop things or the rulings of judges will be obeyed. Place no hope in the current Democrat leadership, as Schumer, Pelosi and the rest of her old guard act like it's 1999 and flog books instead of fight. Jeffries may have a good heart, but he needs Crockett & AOC standing beside him smacking him upside the head whenever he talks about working with MAGA lol. There are some Dems that want to fight, so give them support when you can. Keep your neighbourhood strong, and then your state. Look after one another and remember the strength of people fighting together. Remember these words below, because they really describe how bad things can happen before you know it.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

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Ollie Parks's avatar

"In other words, Joe Biden did not sign them but, more importantly, he did not know anything about them! The necessary Pardoning Documents were not explained to, or approved by, Biden. He knew nothing about them, and the people that did may have committed a crime. Therefore, those on the Unselect Committee, who destroyed and deleted ALL evidence obtained during their two year Witch Hunt of me, and many other innocent people, should fully understand that they are subject to Investigation at the highest level. The fact is, they were probably responsible for the Documents that were signed on their behalf without the knowledge or consent of the Worst President in the History of our Country, Crooked Joe Biden!"

This is yet another remarkably brazen performance from Donald Trump, the 21st century master of the art of the big lie. THIS is why Trump is running rings around Democratic politicians. Trump's people believe only him and those in his orbit. Trump has instructed his base not to believe the mainstream media organizations or their employees. Furthermore, the hatred Trump has instilled in his followers against Democrats generally and, more recently, specific individuals, will keep his base in line even when Trump's incompetence begins hurting them financially.

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JMcKay's avatar

We have got to fight for the role of law if we lose that it is game over or the second amendment kicks in

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Andrew's avatar

“A turducken of lunatic conspiracy theories.” Now that’s writing. 🤌

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Jeffinator's avatar

Let me be the first to ask. Should we be buying guns?

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James Quinn's avatar

You’re talking about just the kind of thing that Trump would love, because then he could justify deploying the army or the National Guard.

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Jeffinator's avatar

He wants to deploy the NG against peaceful protests.

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Michael Clurman's avatar

I had to look up turducken but my wife knew what it was. What a metaphor. A first I'm sure to use in a political post.

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Sandra's avatar

"One trusts that the United States isn’t going to go the way of Germany in the last century."

Considering what's happened in just two months and what Trump's set up, including a Secretary of Defense who is prepared to set the military on the people, why isn't the possibility of going "the way of Germany in the last century" something that needs to be faced?

My question is a serious one. I don't have Bill's knowledge or experience, so I'm willing to accept that my question is a silly one.

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Alex Marcelo's avatar

I wish I had Bill's optimism to trust that we are not going the way of 1930's Germany, but I think all signs say we absolutely are going that way.

If the Executive Branch ignores the orders of the Judicial Branch, and the Judicial Branch has no way to hold the Executive Branch accountable for violating their rulings; And the Executive Branch ignores the laws of the Legislative Branch, instead making up its own rules and rulings by decree alone; And the Legislative Branch refuses to use its tools to force the Executive Branch to obey the law or impeach that executive, then do we still have a functioning republic at all? I think the answer has to be no.

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Lisa's avatar

The only question is when will someone be brave enough to stop him. Democracy is being destroyed in plain sight and very few, save for those paying attention, realize it. This administration is brazenly breaking laws and trashing the Constitution and many in congress are ignoring it. It's despicable and disgusting and it needs to stop.

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Lily who reads The Bulwark's avatar

“Someone” won’t. Looking and waiting for a savior is a sure path to our demise. Stopping him is going to involve something of a coalition of strange bedfellows who are willing to put aside all differences and instead unite around a single cause: defending democracy. Unfortunately decades of extreme individualism and selfishness has put Americans at a distinct disadvantage to rise to the challenge. We are more atomized and splintered than ever, each living in our own individual reality. We have become completely unpracticed at coming together, organizing, mobilizing, and sacrificing. We do not know how to cooperate with each other for the greater good, as Covid revealed. So it will not be easy, and it will take time…time that we likely don’t have, if I’m being honest.

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PAMELA WEHMEYER's avatar

Agreed. And I think it is we the people. I will capitalize that phrase once we really get the balls and plan to start defying. This "tub of lard" was voted in because of petty wishy washy greed and our spoiled stupid impatience about inflation economics. What is actually defying Trump the most? The free market that he runs away from. This is bad, but it won't take much longer for this pain to unite...it's amazing how many bedfellows have united already. I never always agreed with Bill Kristol on anything on "Crossfire", much less David Brooks or Mona Charen. However, free thought and reality are keeping this going.

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Lisa's avatar

The "coalition of strange bedfellows" has already taken shape so it's a matter of action. We must get back to cooperating with each other to tackle major problems and I believe there are more people who are willing to do that than we know. I hope so anyway because if not, we're doomed.

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Steve Beckwith's avatar

I have to wonder if these guys like Carlson have any recognition of the ultimate doom they are hurling themselves into.

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