Of course there's going to be a government shutdown. The Crazy Caucus actively wants a shutdown. It's amazing how much inconvenience and suffering the American people will experience because no Republican is willing to stand up to these loons. Real profiles in courage!
Of course there's going to be a government shutdown. The Crazy Caucus actively wants a shutdown. It's amazing how much inconvenience and suffering the American people will experience because no Republican is willing to stand up to these loons. Real profiles in courage!
I would not discount the idea that they believe a shut down would be a blow to the economy or the markets. It's in their best interests that the soft landing and market stability turn to shit next year.
And stupid. Every single shutdown has been laid to Rs, and people noticed, and it did cost them. "Those who fail to remember the past . . . " McConnell and McCarthy have been around long enough unlike the idiot "20" - they should really know better.
It is just another reminder that we need major reforms to our systems of government. End the filibuster, if not eliminate the Senate all-together. Proportional representation in the house, possibly with far more members. Do away with the EC. Term limits for SC judges. And first and foremost make it easier to amend the Constitution both to enable some of the changes above and to ensure we never again get so far behind in updating it that we find ourselves in situations like the one we are living through again.
It won't be easy but nothing else has much of a chance of getting done without at least some of those changes. The Crazy Caucus can only exist and thrive in this fucked up system we currently have.
That would take a full on Constitutional Convention and this is exactly the wrong time to ask for one. In this polarized political climate the results could easily be something that is antithetical to what you aspire to.
That's exactly it. The problem is that the people who benefit from the status quo have to agree to give up their disproportionate power under the scheme for amendments. If something isn't sustainable, it won't last forever. My fear is of the disruptions that will come from the transition to what you propose.
Oh I have no doubt it will be difficult and disruptive. Any MAGA cultist worth their salt will treat it as the ultimate victimization and the end of days. More than likely it will require something extreme like a Civil War to achieve. Still, it is worth the attempt to do it through the normal means. If a way is found to do it great, but if not it will build support and momentum so the plans and will are in place to implement it if the opportunity presents itself. It may even pressure the MAGA cultists into a foolish move like secession which would likely doom them since they are a minority that currently depends on our crappy system for the disproportionate power they do have.
The alternative is letting them hold everyone hostage indefinitely while they comfortably wait for their opportunity to completely dismantle the Constitution rather than reform it. That boils down to trading liberty and equality for short term physical safety.
I know which path I'd prefer. We need to put pressure on them by insisting on equal representation and all of our lawful rights and restitutions without fail or hesitation.
I'm at the point where I say, "bring it on". The base wants the spectacle, so give it to them, along with all the other consequences a shutdown will bring.
Bring Hunter Biden in manacles onto the floor of the Senate to stand before Gym Jordan.
тАЬExplain yourself, why you and your father should be allowed to live! Silence! Senator Hawley, take him away! Speaker McCarthy, do you have something to add?тАЭ
тАЬYes! President Biden is hereby impeached, found unanimously guilty, and demanded to vacate the White House premises within the next 24 hours! The business of government is hereby concluded, let the government shutdown beginтАЭ!
Emotionally and morally, I agree 100%. Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people will get caught up in it too. Need an expedited passport? Forget it. Waiting on a permit to start construction? Too bad. Taking away day-to-day useful government services is not the message that the GOP really wabts sent.
IтАЩve been waiting eight months just for Homeland Security to process my Global Entry application renewal. I already went through the process, including an interview with customs.
IтАЩd hate to see what happens when my passport expires and I need to renew.
Maybe a shut down is a useful reminder of how the тАЬdeep stateтАЭ is part of our daily functioning as a society, before they blow it up for good, if they prevail in 2024.
I'm not sure about that, Mike. You have to remember that the elected GOP hates its base, so someone like MTG doesn't give a fuck if one of her constituents can't get an expedited passport. The goal of the MTGs of the world is to destroy the government.
What about getting a Social Security disability hearing? That system is ossified anyway but a shut down would make it worse. While some think everyone who applies for it is a layabout liar, there are disabled people who truly need it. MTG's followers may be among them.
Precisely. My wife was diagnosed with a still-undetermined form of Parkinsonism (a spectrum of diseases related to Parkinson's disease but with differing symptoms) in 2020 and had to apply for disability at the age of 59 because she was no longer able to safely and competently handle the demands and responsibilities of her profession as a family nurse practitioner. She submitted the application in March or April of that year with reams of documentation from physicians and psychologists, lab and MRI results, in addition to phone calls to the Medicare reviewer. We finally got the determination of approval of benefits for her in October, and that was considered fast. A huge percentage of applicants are denied and end up having to rely on the expensive help of attorney's to successfully resubmit their claims. We are fortunate to have had the financial reserves to get by for all those months. Most folks aren't so lucky, and having to deal with ballooning debts piled on top of physical and mental distress is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah, but in the long run this tactic reminds folks why we have a government. Short term: destruction. Long term: oh yeah, I'm glad SSA took my phone call.
Unfortunately, this country has to deal with the consequences of a dysfunctional government. The deficit is set to reach $2 trillion this year. A good chunk of the increase is interest rate increases when the Federal Reserve raising the Feds funds Rate (overnight bank ending rate.
However, the last time these imbeciles shut down the government, Fitch, a credit rating agency, downgraded the US debt rating. If we shut down again, every rating agency including MoodyтАЩs and Standard and PoorтАЩs, will do the same; increasing the cost of borrowing, which will have a tremendous negative impact on our economy.
Bottom line: servicing the debt (just interest), will be larger than our military budget! Let that sink in!
I may be wrong but i think the downgrading was related to raising the debt limit not shutting down the government. They are not the same thing. Both are bad policies.
ItтАЩs a combination. Too much debt, our inability to address Medicare and Social Security, but more immediately, a dysfunctional government that canтАЩt even pass a budget without allowing politics to rear its ugly head.
тАЬRatings Downgrade: The rating downgrade of the United States reflects the expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years, a high and growing general government debt burden, and the erosion of governance relative to 'AA' and 'AAA' rated peers over the last two decades that has manifested in repeated debt limit standoffs and last-minute resolutions.
Erosion of Governance: In Fitch's view, there has been a steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters, notwithstanding the June bipartisan agreement to suspend the debt limit until January 2025. The repeated debt-limit political standoffs and last-minute resolutions have eroded confidence in fiscal management. In addition, the government lacks a medium-term fiscal framework, unlike most peers, and has a complex budgeting process. These factors, along with several economic shocks as well as tax cuts and new spending initiatives, have contributed to successive debt increases over the last decade. Additionally, there has been only limited progress in tackling medium-term challenges related to rising social security and Medicare costs due to an aging population.
Rising General Government Deficits: We expect the general government (GG) deficit to rise to 6.3% of GDP in 2023, from 3.7% in 2022, reflecting cyclically weaker federal revenues, new spending initiatives and a higher interest burden. Additionally, state and local governments are expected to run an overall deficit of 0.6% of GDP this year after running a small surplus of 0.2% of GDP in 2022. Cuts to non-defense discretionary spending (15% of total federal spending) as agreed in the Fiscal Responsibility Act offer only a modest improvement to the medium-term fiscal outlook, with cumulative savings of USD1.5 trillion (3.9% of GDP) by 2033 according to the Congressional Budget Office. The near-term impact of the Act is estimated at USD70 billion (0.3% of GDP) in 2024 and USD112 billion (0.4% of GDP) in 2025. Fitch does not expect any further substantive fiscal consolidation measures ahead of the November 2024 elections.тАЭ
My friend yesterday started trying to get me to watch тАЬ2000 MulesтАЭ and DurhamтАЩs take on his report. Today IтАЩll ask her if sheтАЩs ever heard of MoodyтАЩs or Standard and PoorтАЩs.
I canтАЩt. We grew up next door to each other since we were in Pampers. She tried to talk me down (and even gave me a pot brownie!) watching election night at her house, with neтАЩer a peep of praise for the other side. Letting go would feel like letting go of your friendтАЩs hand and watching them slide down under the quicksand. I canтАЩt give up hope.
I was kidding, but I have a few family and friends that are the same. And you canтАЩt pick your family, although if you live far enough away, you can avoid them most of the time...:)
Ok, it's sinking in. What's the problem? In specific, concrete terms, not that it's icky.
And rating agencies are irrelevant to what the government pays in interest; what's relevant is the gop seeding doubt that the full faith and credit of the US has any meaning.
Fair enough, but the rating agencies, while they donтАЩt necessarily have an effect on our interest rates, the way they do with corporations, they do serve as a harbinger of things to come. The markets will eventually act if we donтАЩt get our shit together.
The US is the reserve currency of the world. All commodities trade in dollars because of the dollars stability. With a dysfunctional government, unable to pass a yearly budget, the world pays attention, and will eventually require a different reserve currency, or a currency based on many countries, instead of ours.
Should that occur, are economic standing in the world diminishes.
Which is to say, the issue right now is not the scale of the deficit per se but rather the total irresponsibility of the authoritarian party in the house.
And when the U.S. credit rating takes a hit, we all lose money in our retirement accounts. Which is only painful if one HAS a retirement account, and also assumes one notices the connection.
Agreed. When I worked on Wall Street a few college grads joined my team at UBS. One graduated top in his class at Vanderbilt and was an economics major. He didnтАЩt know the deficit adds to the debt and the two were separate.
The deficit isn't helped either by one political party taking increased revenues off the table. Let's use the household analogy. If my family budget is short every month, I look at taking on a side job. I don't decide to either run up my credit cards, or stop paying the electric bill.
The Republicans are eager to stop paying the rent, just to get back at the landlord. McCarthy negotiated his way out of that one, but now they don't want to stick to the agreement. If it was up to them, the US would be out on the street, much like too many of its citizens.
I TRY to give both parties latitude, but the GOP has been planning its own funeral since the Watergate era. They might as well call themselves The Walking Dead.
Of course there's going to be a government shutdown. The Crazy Caucus actively wants a shutdown. It's amazing how much inconvenience and suffering the American people will experience because no Republican is willing to stand up to these loons. Real profiles in courage!
The shutdown will get people off BidenтАЩs age for awhile.
A silver lining! :)
I would not discount the idea that they believe a shut down would be a blow to the economy or the markets. It's in their best interests that the soft landing and market stability turn to shit next year.
And stupid. Every single shutdown has been laid to Rs, and people noticed, and it did cost them. "Those who fail to remember the past . . . " McConnell and McCarthy have been around long enough unlike the idiot "20" - they should really know better.
Yup, these patriots love the country so much that they want to sabotage it for their own gain.
It is just another reminder that we need major reforms to our systems of government. End the filibuster, if not eliminate the Senate all-together. Proportional representation in the house, possibly with far more members. Do away with the EC. Term limits for SC judges. And first and foremost make it easier to amend the Constitution both to enable some of the changes above and to ensure we never again get so far behind in updating it that we find ourselves in situations like the one we are living through again.
It won't be easy but nothing else has much of a chance of getting done without at least some of those changes. The Crazy Caucus can only exist and thrive in this fucked up system we currently have.
That would take a full on Constitutional Convention and this is exactly the wrong time to ask for one. In this polarized political climate the results could easily be something that is antithetical to what you aspire to.
There is never a right time to ask. When things aren't polarized no one cares. The system can limp along just fine when there are no stressors on it.
That's exactly it. The problem is that the people who benefit from the status quo have to agree to give up their disproportionate power under the scheme for amendments. If something isn't sustainable, it won't last forever. My fear is of the disruptions that will come from the transition to what you propose.
Oh I have no doubt it will be difficult and disruptive. Any MAGA cultist worth their salt will treat it as the ultimate victimization and the end of days. More than likely it will require something extreme like a Civil War to achieve. Still, it is worth the attempt to do it through the normal means. If a way is found to do it great, but if not it will build support and momentum so the plans and will are in place to implement it if the opportunity presents itself. It may even pressure the MAGA cultists into a foolish move like secession which would likely doom them since they are a minority that currently depends on our crappy system for the disproportionate power they do have.
The alternative is letting them hold everyone hostage indefinitely while they comfortably wait for their opportunity to completely dismantle the Constitution rather than reform it. That boils down to trading liberty and equality for short term physical safety.
I know which path I'd prefer. We need to put pressure on them by insisting on equal representation and all of our lawful rights and restitutions without fail or hesitation.
I'm at the point where I say, "bring it on". The base wants the spectacle, so give it to them, along with all the other consequences a shutdown will bring.
IтАЩm about at the тАЬbring it onтАЭ point, too.
Bring Hunter Biden in manacles onto the floor of the Senate to stand before Gym Jordan.
тАЬExplain yourself, why you and your father should be allowed to live! Silence! Senator Hawley, take him away! Speaker McCarthy, do you have something to add?тАЭ
тАЬYes! President Biden is hereby impeached, found unanimously guilty, and demanded to vacate the White House premises within the next 24 hours! The business of government is hereby concluded, let the government shutdown beginтАЭ!
"The evidence before the court is
Incontrovertible, there's no need for
The jury to retire.
In all my years of judging
I have never heard before
Of someone more deserving
Of the full penalty of law"
I have become comfortably numb.
I just got a flashback
Bad trip?
At least this spectacle will further humiliate McCarthy.
Emotionally and morally, I agree 100%. Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people will get caught up in it too. Need an expedited passport? Forget it. Waiting on a permit to start construction? Too bad. Taking away day-to-day useful government services is not the message that the GOP really wabts sent.
IтАЩve been waiting eight months just for Homeland Security to process my Global Entry application renewal. I already went through the process, including an interview with customs.
IтАЩd hate to see what happens when my passport expires and I need to renew.
Easy, just blame Biden! [Yes, I'm kidding.]
Maybe a shut down is a useful reminder of how the тАЬdeep stateтАЭ is part of our daily functioning as a society, before they blow it up for good, if they prevail in 2024.
The Party of Obstruction lives for this toxic, negative crap.
I'm not sure about that, Mike. You have to remember that the elected GOP hates its base, so someone like MTG doesn't give a fuck if one of her constituents can't get an expedited passport. The goal of the MTGs of the world is to destroy the government.
I have a hard time imagining anyone who would vote for MTG ever needing a passport or even knowing what one is needed for.
What about getting a Social Security disability hearing? That system is ossified anyway but a shut down would make it worse. While some think everyone who applies for it is a layabout liar, there are disabled people who truly need it. MTG's followers may be among them.
Precisely. My wife was diagnosed with a still-undetermined form of Parkinsonism (a spectrum of diseases related to Parkinson's disease but with differing symptoms) in 2020 and had to apply for disability at the age of 59 because she was no longer able to safely and competently handle the demands and responsibilities of her profession as a family nurse practitioner. She submitted the application in March or April of that year with reams of documentation from physicians and psychologists, lab and MRI results, in addition to phone calls to the Medicare reviewer. We finally got the determination of approval of benefits for her in October, and that was considered fast. A huge percentage of applicants are denied and end up having to rely on the expensive help of attorney's to successfully resubmit their claims. We are fortunate to have had the financial reserves to get by for all those months. Most folks aren't so lucky, and having to deal with ballooning debts piled on top of physical and mental distress is a recipe for disaster.
There's that.
Yeah, but in the long run this tactic reminds folks why we have a government. Short term: destruction. Long term: oh yeah, I'm glad SSA took my phone call.
But only if said folks are rational actors who value and possess critical thinking.
That's the trick, isn't it? :)
Yup. So, like I said, bring it on. Give the people exactly what they want, even -- or perhaps especially -- it'll make their lives worse.
Unfortunately, this country has to deal with the consequences of a dysfunctional government. The deficit is set to reach $2 trillion this year. A good chunk of the increase is interest rate increases when the Federal Reserve raising the Feds funds Rate (overnight bank ending rate.
However, the last time these imbeciles shut down the government, Fitch, a credit rating agency, downgraded the US debt rating. If we shut down again, every rating agency including MoodyтАЩs and Standard and PoorтАЩs, will do the same; increasing the cost of borrowing, which will have a tremendous negative impact on our economy.
Bottom line: servicing the debt (just interest), will be larger than our military budget! Let that sink in!
I may be wrong but i think the downgrading was related to raising the debt limit not shutting down the government. They are not the same thing. Both are bad policies.
ItтАЩs a combination. Too much debt, our inability to address Medicare and Social Security, but more immediately, a dysfunctional government that canтАЩt even pass a budget without allowing politics to rear its ugly head.
тАЬRatings Downgrade: The rating downgrade of the United States reflects the expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years, a high and growing general government debt burden, and the erosion of governance relative to 'AA' and 'AAA' rated peers over the last two decades that has manifested in repeated debt limit standoffs and last-minute resolutions.
Erosion of Governance: In Fitch's view, there has been a steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters, notwithstanding the June bipartisan agreement to suspend the debt limit until January 2025. The repeated debt-limit political standoffs and last-minute resolutions have eroded confidence in fiscal management. In addition, the government lacks a medium-term fiscal framework, unlike most peers, and has a complex budgeting process. These factors, along with several economic shocks as well as tax cuts and new spending initiatives, have contributed to successive debt increases over the last decade. Additionally, there has been only limited progress in tackling medium-term challenges related to rising social security and Medicare costs due to an aging population.
Rising General Government Deficits: We expect the general government (GG) deficit to rise to 6.3% of GDP in 2023, from 3.7% in 2022, reflecting cyclically weaker federal revenues, new spending initiatives and a higher interest burden. Additionally, state and local governments are expected to run an overall deficit of 0.6% of GDP this year after running a small surplus of 0.2% of GDP in 2022. Cuts to non-defense discretionary spending (15% of total federal spending) as agreed in the Fiscal Responsibility Act offer only a modest improvement to the medium-term fiscal outlook, with cumulative savings of USD1.5 trillion (3.9% of GDP) by 2033 according to the Congressional Budget Office. The near-term impact of the Act is estimated at USD70 billion (0.3% of GDP) in 2024 and USD112 billion (0.4% of GDP) in 2025. Fitch does not expect any further substantive fiscal consolidation measures ahead of the November 2024 elections.тАЭ
My friend yesterday started trying to get me to watch тАЬ2000 MulesтАЭ and DurhamтАЩs take on his report. Today IтАЩll ask her if sheтАЩs ever heard of MoodyтАЩs or Standard and PoorтАЩs.
If sheтАЩs trying to indoctrinate you to that debunked horse s***, maybe itтАЩs time for new friends....:)
I canтАЩt. We grew up next door to each other since we were in Pampers. She tried to talk me down (and even gave me a pot brownie!) watching election night at her house, with neтАЩer a peep of praise for the other side. Letting go would feel like letting go of your friendтАЩs hand and watching them slide down under the quicksand. I canтАЩt give up hope.
I was kidding, but I have a few family and friends that are the same. And you canтАЩt pick your family, although if you live far enough away, you can avoid them most of the time...:)
Ok, it's sinking in. What's the problem? In specific, concrete terms, not that it's icky.
And rating agencies are irrelevant to what the government pays in interest; what's relevant is the gop seeding doubt that the full faith and credit of the US has any meaning.
Fair enough, but the rating agencies, while they donтАЩt necessarily have an effect on our interest rates, the way they do with corporations, they do serve as a harbinger of things to come. The markets will eventually act if we donтАЩt get our shit together.
The US is the reserve currency of the world. All commodities trade in dollars because of the dollars stability. With a dysfunctional government, unable to pass a yearly budget, the world pays attention, and will eventually require a different reserve currency, or a currency based on many countries, instead of ours.
Should that occur, are economic standing in the world diminishes.
Which is to say, the issue right now is not the scale of the deficit per se but rather the total irresponsibility of the authoritarian party in the house.
Agreed...:)
That's it 110%. The idea that our national debt isn't sacred hurts our national security more than any perceived lack of naval vessels.
And when the U.S. credit rating takes a hit, we all lose money in our retirement accounts. Which is only painful if one HAS a retirement account, and also assumes one notices the connection.
Luckily that can all be blamed on Biden, so it's all good! :) [more gallows humor than sarcasm. :)]
Speak for yourself. "Thanks Obama" is a common line I use around the house. Last time was when my dishwasher rack broke.
I thank Biden for broken things now. Time to move on.
Just take those old records off the shelf...
Agreed. The damage these people are doing In incalculable...:)
One sad thing I noticed years ago is that most voters don't know the difference between the deficit and the debt.
Agreed. When I worked on Wall Street a few college grads joined my team at UBS. One graduated top in his class at Vanderbilt and was an economics major. He didnтАЩt know the deficit adds to the debt and the two were separate.
And he was an economics major...:)
That's scarey!
I know....:)
The deficit isn't helped either by one political party taking increased revenues off the table. Let's use the household analogy. If my family budget is short every month, I look at taking on a side job. I don't decide to either run up my credit cards, or stop paying the electric bill.
The Republicans are eager to stop paying the rent, just to get back at the landlord. McCarthy negotiated his way out of that one, but now they don't want to stick to the agreement. If it was up to them, the US would be out on the street, much like too many of its citizens.
I TRY to give both parties latitude, but the GOP has been planning its own funeral since the Watergate era. They might as well call themselves The Walking Dead.