Collins is up for re-election next year; time to take her down. She voted to move Bove out of Committee, knowing full well Trump would have the votes to get Bove’s nomination through.
This is the Republican’s idea of leadership. Put a hack through committee and then vote against the person on a floor vote for confirmation. And now she’ll claim she’s “shocked,” just shocked a nefarious, sadistic and corrupt person will have a lifetime appointment to the Circuit Court and will most likely be Trump’s first SCOTUS pick when either Alito or Thomas retires.
Let’s make sure to hold her to account: At best, she lacks good judgment, and at worst; you can fill in the blank.
Additionally, how’d her three SCOTUS picks turn out? Oh wait, they didn’t honor precedent when it came time to uphold Dobb’s! Exactly!
Yes, we need to find a way to take the ME seat from this “moderate” republican. Over and over the “moderate” republicans vote exactly like their maniac MAGA brethren.
That’s the price you pay for leadership, or lack thereof! It’s democrats who are being killed, not republicans. They’re being threatened, but not attacked!
Paul Pelosi, husband of Nancy; she was the target but not home.
It is interesting, that. But the violence against Democrats is effective against Republicans too, in the way of gangster strategy. GOP politicians know what their base is capable of.
Agree. It’s especially galling when combat veterans cave out of fear. My point is that I’m growing weary of the constant assumption that all these spineless MAGAs fear for their JOBS. No; they fear for their lives, and the lives of their loved ones. There are enormous implications for recognizing that truth. This is way beyond politics.
And I guess Thom Tillis is flexible when it comes to using January 6th revisionism as a criterion for rejecting a nominee. He had nothing to lose now but couldn’t do the right thing. Now this creep will torture folks for years.
I am appalled I went and campaigned for him. He's a yes on the SAVE act, he was the only Dem to vote WITH the Republicans on the shut down/CR. He at least voted against the Murder Bill. And his latest votes are less terrible than the ones earlier in the Trump administration.
But he's also a D who blames trans kids in sports for everything... Which he has some good company (Seth Moulton).
We need to find an alternative. I looked him up and you’re right, he’ll take Manchin’s place in the Senate as a Trojan house along with Fetterman. This is the last thing we need.
Republicans fall in line, democrats eat their own, and think they continue to believe that there are still sane, bipartisan and centrist republicans in Congress.
And even if there were some sane republicans left, they’re too afraid of their own base to actually accomplish any bipartisan solutions to our plethora of problems….:)
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Trump's going to get away with this, too. And the reason why is because his supporters are morally degraded and would rather have a pedophile in the White House than your median Democrat. Even if there is 100% proof that Trump engaged in the worst possible stuff we can imagine, do you even doubt that someone like Catturd will land on "pedophilia is good"? Or his more religious supporters will describe pedophilia as the "natural order of things" because it establishes the dominion of man over women and children?
No, but I think that there are a lot of normies who support Trump that are not full MAGA might stay home if this stays in the news in 2026.
The red caps I think will honestly need to eat Trump's sin on this one too. Full Trumpists, like the folks who have gone to multiple rallies, they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time. Since they already do not have a rational or empirical worldview, it's not hard to and it's a matter of necessity for their mental well being.
But like, the normal folks who just wanted inflation down and thought Trump might do businessman-stuff to make the country better? They didn't sign up for this.
I would argue they did sign up for this. They saw the Access Hollywood stuff in 2016. They knew Trump was found civilly liable for sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll last year. So they gave themselves permission to vote for a morally compromised man because they thought they'd get something out of it.
I don't think median voters are that engaged, certainly not nearly as much as the average paid subscriber to the Bulwark.
Especially in this age of algorithmic social media bubbles, and 54% of Americans reporting now they get their news from facebook (https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/social-media-and-news-fact-sheet/), there are people who literally just don't care about politics and turned out to vote in 2024, maybe for the first time in a decade, because they were mad about inflation.
They aren't engaged or engaged as much as Fox News will let them be - seriously. I am around a lot of non-MAGA that voted for Trump like they voted for Fox-driven Presidential candidates since Fox came into being. Epstein situation, not even on the radar right now for them
They believe all of the trials and cases were politically motivated and the mainstream media helped the RW propaganda machine muddy the waters for normies as well. It's why the polls basically had people shrugging over them, even though they were legitimate cases!
Funny how every accusation against Trump is "politically motivated". I think it's a way for his supporters to avoid taking responsibility for their votes. Personally, MAP, I'm at the point where I agree with what Jeff wrote somewhere in this thread: if voters don't renounce their support of Trump, it is because they are either sympathetic towards pedophiles or they're pedophiles themselves. The modern GOP has been playing Manichean games for years. It's time we do, too, only crank the volume by 100 dB.
I don't think Trump supporters are at all sympathetic toward child rapists, nor child rapists themselves (although of course some will be, given that estimates put the frequency of male pedophilia around a stunning 2%). It is these charges of serial rapes of minors which have fractured the MAGA base.
But. They are uniquely disposed to attribute any reports of moral failure or criminal behaviour on Trump's part as unjust lies, those witch hunts Trump is always shrilling about.
I can only assume their desperate desire for their lives to be made easier, more prosperous and secure (with no effort on their part, btw) is to put blind, utterly blind, and unquestioning faith in Trump. They want to believe.
Oh, hell I agree, and it's because he says it and the media repeats it over and over and over again. The RWPM (right wing propaganda machine) comes out of the gate that it's political. The MM piles on by repeating in quotes (of course) and headlines, and by bothsiding.
I can't disagree with you. Last year a local produced signs in my area that said if you're a democrat you're a pedophile. We need to make them: if you are republican you support pedophiles.
Much depends on getting as many of the 60+% who did NOT vote for Trump out and to the polls.
If concentration camps, deportations to who knows where, saddling the nation with astronomical debt for a cash payout to self and cronies, ripping up Medicaid, the Education department, neutering the FBI and CIA, looking like he diddled young girls, or at least protected and partied with those who did diddle young girls don't do it....
If the media doesn't cover them as such, then people don't know and don't care. Inflation and the "near collapse of the economy" was in the news every damn day for the past several years—until now. Now, you get a one off about the price of beef going up, or chocolate. That's it. There is no drumbeat that trickles down from the ether into people's brains and daily conversations.
Like I said elsewhere yesterday, the economy was all you heard about from voters last year. Have prices gotten cheaper? No. Have they gone up? Yes. Yet yet yet . . . consumer confidence in the economy ticked up in July. Are they shopping at different stores? Nope. But one thing is different—how much they hear about it via the news or diffused from those who do "follow the news." Last year my local channel had a whole series on how inflation was affecting your pocket book. This summer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dead silence.
We know about the concentration camps. We know about the deportations. Some in the hinterlands know because they have been touched by them. But most Americans are oblivious. But they knew all about Biden's old and HRC's emails. Now, why is that? What makes the difference in knowing or not knowing?
Just because many people no longer get their news from newspapers or the teevee, the mainstream outlets still influence the narrative that does reach them—both in how the RW propaganda machine answers MM coverage and how MM address what the RWPM is putting out as well.
Coffee is more expensive now than it was in November 2024 (I made a point of checking what it was then).
This country voted for lawless, amoral douchebag and we didn't even get cheap coffee! I WAS PROMISED LOWER PRICES ON DAY ONE, WHERE IS MY CHEAP COFFEE DAMMIT
Yep. I'm not a coffee drinker so didn't think of that as an example but yes.
I agree. And the media should be beating the drum every day with Epstein and why aren't prices lower? But they won't. They say they aren't for Trump but they are in the same kind of way as the Senator from Maine.
That's true. And its owner Murdoch hates the US he wants it to dissolve into a fascist state with a depressed economy that is hated by the rest of the world. He wants the US isolated and crippled. He will still have pretty airheads doling out propaganda about how everything is the Democrats fault in spite of the Government being controlled by Republicans. And he will be raking in millions.
I do not understand why. I get being avaricious and I can even understand having a lust for unbridled power. But if the USA continues much longer on its present trajectory, millions will be plunged into misery. Literally millions...and all the good work that the USA was doing, and is doing no longer, will bring untold more miseries to masses of folks across the globe. And for what? So the Murdochs can buy more estates?
I think maybe the decision of "normie" voters in 2026 will be governed by how angry they are at the Republican Congress by that time and less about Trump. There are really only a handful of truly competitive seats held by Republicans and Democrats need to relentlessly tie them to the bad policies they are angry about even more than Trump.
As for the "Red Heads" epistemic collapse happened years ago. When women at Trump rallies wore T-shirts saying "You can grab me by the pussy!" with arrows pointed down to their nether regions.
Plus you actually have to have "cognition" in order to have dissonance!
"they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time"
They know who "Daddy" is: he is their retribution, he is God's chosen avatar on Earth who Makes America Great Again and who makes libs cry. They DGAF about anything else he's done.
Again, I think he is truly their Orange Jesus....they are so desperate for their lives to immediately be made easier, more prosperous and safe (with no effort expended on their part) that they put their blind and utterly unquestioning faith in Trump, who tells them what they want to hear. They deeply, deeply want to believe.
The solution for his supporters is pretty simple. Call them what they are if they continue to support Trump - they are child rapist apologists at best, and closet pedophiles most likely. If they can support someone who at the very least KNEW what Epstein was doing and more than likely participated in it, well, I think their new label as a supporter of child rape is more than justified.
If they get pissed off? Good. They should be mad. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they continue to support child rapists, so F them.
That 47 is/was a rascal playboy is never in doubt. That he might have enjoyed the "services" of underage girls procured by others would not be "news" to anyone but the most naiive fan. And many fans would consider his "success" with women to be a virtue. This is why he is untouchable by the known Epstein offenses. But, then, why is he flailing so desperately to knock out the matter? Is there something far different lying under the surface?
There have been people purporting that the falling out wasn’t about the women but about finances and where DJT was getting his money from or rather from whom and how. He’s always been notoriously prickly about anything to do with his finances which makes me wonder if there isn’t information about that in the files.
Thank you. I was surprised by his sudden chattiness about "Epstein stealing the spa workers." So soon after the DOJ visits to Maxwell. Have they decided to throw Epstein stuff around so that they give the appearance of being forthcoming? To evade calls for the release of the files?
I've been wondering if there's something to do with Melania or even Ivanka. I can't imagine Trmp protecting anyone else in the world besides those two.
Not accusing them of anything; but they may have some sort of untoward experience involving Epstein that he would prefer remain unknown.
Look at the pictures of the felon and his teenaged daughter. Creepy and suggestive. Even Mary Trump reported in her book about the felon's comments about her "rack". Oh yeah, this guy is trash.
I suspect there is something darker, and it is probably on a video tape somewhere. But more to the point perhaps, he hates to think he has any blots on his copy book. Can't ever be held to have made a mistake.
And...the one thing he cannot afford is to be out of office. As soon as he is out of the Oval Office, he will be facing trial and will likely be given a prison sentence. So I think the flailing can simply be explained by a terror that anything might come along that causes him to be dethroned.
I don't know Tim, there is a victim's deposition that alleges Trump raped her when she was 13 at Epstein's apartment in NY. It might depend on how many victims come forward. If Trump pardons Maxwell that is not going to go over well with the victims she groomed for the entertainment of men like Trump.
I think one of the reasons Trump can't change the narrative is because this narrative is much bigger than just him.
Yes, and Michael Wolff has written that when he was interviewing Epstein, Epstein brought out several photos of Trump with young girls on his lap, and the photos were taken either at Epstein's apartment or his Palm Beach house.
Trump is using the phrase "I never *had the privilege* to go to the island" to deny he is guilty of sexually assaulting the young girls. Some commentators have noted his use of "privilege" here, but they need to press him on the *privileges* he had at Epstein's other properties as well.
Kate Manne, an Australian philosopher and associate professor at Cornell University, took down the words of a woman who describes her encounter with Trump. It’s a rough read, and really incriminating if true.
Nope. All they want is to own the libs. The libs are women and gay people. Therefore, pedophilia will disgust the libs. Putting a child rapist above us and demanding we respect him is the ultimate in owning the libs. We have never been so owned.
No, I don't think you're crazy. I've lost track of the number of times I thought "ok, this is it, Trump is finished" and then... nothing. The truest thing Trump ever said was, "I could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any supporters."
Apparently the Democrats don't have the taste for blood that this situation requires. Their messaging should be consistent: the GOP is the party that supports and protects pedophiles. When someone like Mike Johnson or Ted Cruz objects -- and they will -- the only response should be, "When did you stop diddling children?"
Agree that Trump will get away with it, but not that Evangelicals will suddenly embrace child sexual abuse. It is called compartmentalization and, to a certain extent, we all do it.
If it’s true - and I think it is with MAGA - that every accusation is a confession, then a lot of their past and ongoing obsession with pedophilia is a sign of their desire to be in on it. It’s an ugly thought, but it fits a pattern.
Not crazy at all. The problem is normal people think MAGA, and Christian fascists are basically good people who are being bamboozled by Trump. If we could make them see what a bloated bag of hate he is, they would stop supporting him. But that's wrong. They love him because they hate the idea that doing good for the country helps all of us. To them, there is no "us". Just them and everyone else should die or be in concentration camps.
Re T's comments about Epstein hiring his employees away from him, I'll repost a revised version of comments I made on Sam and Andrew's video yesterday:
I know there is so much in this whole years-long ordeal that is utterly repulsive and nauseating. But to focus on one particular aspect of these latest revelations, my question is why in the hell didn't one of those reporters ask him, "HIRED BY EPSTEIN FOR WHAT EXACTLY???" How would T have answered that?
I mean it's not as if Epstein ran a rival spa. The only supposed profession I've heard of him having is as some kind of financial advisor. So T just admitted he knew Epstein "hired" them. Is T or anyone else really going to pretend he didn't know what Epstein was recruiting them for? when they were best friends?
As Bill says, "Trump knew what Epstein was up to. He was fine with it. He didn’t care." So is anyone going to do anything about it?
No. The time to "do anything about it" was last November. Instead, 77 million people voted to put an adjudicated rapist back in the White House because the price of eggs was too high.
And Biden was so old, we had to elect someone older than Kamala Harris. The things we give ourselves permission to do will never not be darkly amusing.
“As Bill says, "Trump knew what Epstein was up to. He was fine with it. He didn’t care." So is anyone going to do anything about it?”
Great points. And notice, it was all about poaching employees, not a word about the victims. As a former prosecutor for W Palm Beach had said when parents complained about Epstein before he was finally arrested and then got his sweet plea deal; “there are no victims here!”
And this exemplifies how republicans view this story; they’re tone deaf! They never cared about the kids. Hell, how many pedophiles, rapists and sexual traffickers has Trump already pardoned? Too many to count!
That said, remember the Tate Brothers? He forced Romania to allow them back into the US when they were in house arrest for rape and human trafficking. Need I say more? Oh, the irony!….:)
Tara Palmeri; she mentioned this in one of her recent podcasts. And for what it’s worth, while she didn’t name the prosecutor who refused to prosecute; even though the police had a solid case, it was a woman who said it.
“A prosecutor in Palm Beach County, Florida, Lanna Belohlavek, reportedly stated multiple times that there were "no victims" in the Jeffrey Epstein case during grand jury proceedings in 2006.
Belohlavek, then a chief child sex crimes prosecutor for the Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office, led the grand jury proceedings against Epstein. However, according to reports, she undermined the testimony of the only victim who testified by using the girl's MySpace pages, which reportedly depicted simulated sex, drinking, and drugs. This approach, coupled with the assertion that there were no victims, contributed to the controversial outcome of the initial prosecution of Epstein in Palm Beach County.”
Thank you! I appreciate getting all the facts and an especially a link.
Prosecutors defending Epstein! The powerful protecting the powerful. Makes me sick. However, that was 2006. Law enforcement no longer summarily dismisses victims.
That's an excellent point. Trump was running a resort. There was a spa there. Hiring sixteen-year-olds to check people in, make sure the supplies are restocked and whatnot is reasonable. That's the kind of job sixteen-year-olds do in the hospitality industry.
But Jeffrey Epstein didn't run a resort.
What did he hire them to do?
Trump had a big beef with Epstein about this (he says), so what was his understanding? He never asked? (I suspect that's what he'll say, "Y'know, I don't know. He hired them. I told him, 'Jeffrey, don't do that.' And he did it. And I told him not to and he did it again and that was it. I was through with him. He stole my people and that's not okay, okay?")
When I get upset about losing an employee to a competitor, it's always professional staff. Who gets upset about turnover on teenagers passing out spa towels? Unless, something "else" was really going on.
Trump owns the place! Since when does a guy in that position even know who all those kids running around are? Those hiring and firing decisions would be handled by people way below the level of Donald Trump, wouldn't they?
But Trump did know. And he cared enough to bring it up with the guy who hired those kids away. He 1) knew it happened, 2) knew where they went, 3) knew who was involved and 3) took time out of his day to talk to the guy who "hired" them and told him not to do it again.
That is all so suspicious. Why aren't the MAGA conspiracy theorists all over this? This whole thing stinks on ice.
Don’t like the jurisdiction in Bove’s appointment. Does Biden live in Delaware? Didn’t Epstein’s crimes happen in the US Virgin Islands? Sounds like another Aileen Cannon plant to me.
Not to mention all the corporate shenanigans he can quash for Trump’s friends.
Cannon didn’t get to pick her cases. Unfortunately for America, she got the job. But she was so good at running interference, she probably led the way for Bove, the perfect foil for Felon Trump.
Regardless of what happens with the Epstein scandal (will this be the scandal that brings down Trump?), people need to understand that Trump has become a consequential President, for good or bad, or both, even if he drops dead tomorrow. Trump has exposed the fundamental weaknesses in the US constitutional order and the nature of the American people, likely permanently changed the post World War II international order to the benefit of China and other dictatorships, and fundamentally changed economic policies and international supply chains. I remind everyone that President Biden retained Trump’s first term tariffs, and expanded them. Does anyone seriously believe a Democratic Party President is going to overturn them and give up the revenue and protections for various US industries? Highly unlikely. The administrative state has been permanently damaged and it will be difficult to rebuild it, especially since the Supreme Court has given carte blanche to any future President to act unilaterally and undo whatever a Democratic President enacts. The Trump tax cuts for the wealthy are permanent and the few Middle Class benefits (increased deductions for seniors, no taxes on tips and overtime, all below certain income levels) expire in 2029. If Democrats take full control in 2029 are they going to let them expire and take the blame? And I remind everyone that the Trump tax cuts were not repealed when Democrats controlled the Presidency and Congress, not even for the ultra wealthy. The fiscal situation of the US, which was not great but at least fixable after the Obama Presidency, is now dire and cannot be addressed without significant cuts to Middle Class benefits even if taxes on the wealthy are doubled (assuming the wealthy don’t evade them, as they typically fund a way to do). So the concept of expanded government programs is not feasible and it would be a major accomplishment just to maintain current programs without significant cuts. The European Union has been fully exposed as a weak and pathetic counterweight to US and Chinese economic power and China is expanding its economic production and alliances around the world. Trump has likely fatally damaged the ability of the US clean energy industry to compete against China. High quality immigrants who drive startup technology companies are now looking elsewhere to start businesses. The so-called progressive people who stayed home in 2016 or refused to vote for (admittedly flawed) Hillary Clinton and the remaining principled Republicans who refused to bite the bullet and vote for Clinton allowing Trump to pull an inside straight to win the 2016 election and set us on this course will reap the “rewards” along with the rest of us who saw this train wreck miles away. I don’t know how we fix this, and I have lost confidence in the American people and our leadership.
Not defending. But Virginia’s dad worked in maintenance and probably helped her get the job as towel girl. That’s where Maxwell spotted her. Started grooming her. Eventually raped her along with Epstein.
Legal age in Florida? OK, if you say so. Might be instructive to know her actual birth date and when she started there, but only on the fringes. The real reason she got the job seemed to be obvious to the Felon, Epstein and Maxwell.
No evidence? OK, only what the Felon said at various times, what Maxwell was convicted of, and what we all know Epstein was doing, but, do I have a smoking gun about her in particular, no. On the other hand, if it looks like, acts like, walks like, talks like, etc. etc. etc. As you know, circumstantial evidence can be more convincing than one or two facts.
Trump's blabber mouth reminds me unironically of Ted Bundy (the serial killer). If you're familiar with Florida history / true crime, Bundy was convinced he was the smartest person and best equipped to argue his own defense so he routinely defended himself in court and sidelined or fired his defense attorneys. And he did himself no favors, because he showed himself to the court room and the jury to be a demented sociopathic serial killer and malignant narcissist as he cross examined witnesses and victims (remember, as the perpetrator).
Trump really thinks he knows best and if he keeps talking he will wiggle out of anything. Like Bundy, it can work for him for a long time. But eventually a malignant narcissist will gladly tie their own noose and swing themselves from the gallows just to prove how smart they are and good they are at tying knots. All the democrats need to do is keep giving Trump rope and asking him about the under-aged girls he now admits were working in his spa.
As Trump slips further into dementia, more secrets will come out as he loses the ability to govern his speech (which was never very strong in his case). His long digression on windmills the other day was completely nuts, and indicative of his inability to stop himself.
That Epstein was supposed to have "stolen" employees--girls--from Mar a Lago's spa--"World class!"--dovetails nicely with the fact that Maxwell's MO was first to recruit girls to give Epstein massages, which led to other things. I would say that it was probably Maxwell who "stole" these employees from Trump.
Actually, whether it was him or her, as Rhett Butler famously said, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". One of them did it, the Felon knew about it, and cared as much about it as he does about anything but himself.
You are expecting rational thought from the Felon, who appears to this layman to be showing signs of adult dementia: Incoherent sentences, basic English, little exposition, attention span of a brain-worm....
That Maxwell knew and did all that does bother me. She wants immunity, and then a pardon. She was the only guilty person we know of this whole sick mess. That she goes free as will all those men, all those banks, is repulsive. The “elites” always go free. That’s why Americans do not trust anything that our government people say. In Reagan’s administration, that was probably the last time criminals actually were arrested and put in jail, regardless of their political affiliations.
Katherine, a saying I use at times like these: People in Hell want ice water, too. She can "want" immunity and a pardon" all she wants, but she did not demand that to talk to the Felon's former lawyer two days in a row (if that timeline can be believed). Did he promise her he wouldn't tell anyone what she said? Of course not. But, then, she was probably not under oath when talking to Todd B., so what is that worth, anyway?
She was also convicted of perjury along with the sex charges. Those charges were apparently dropped in a post-trial bargain with her and her attorneys to maintain the sex convictions after it was discovered that one juror had been sexually abused and not disclosed that fact. So, even if she signed a piece of paper, it would not really mean anything.
Good. I read about her perjury, which puts her in league with Republicans; they never saw a liar they didn’t like, as long as that person was a Republican
PoTAtoes, PoTaToes! That Trump KNEW those two were working together to take his “girls” into sexual slavery and did nothing of substance to stop him. ( And Epstein’s brother said Jeoffrey broke up the bromance because Trump was a crook. Rich!)
The language about "taking" people really highlights Trmp's attitude that women are just commodities. When Epstein "took" young women, does that mean he owned them now? It really feels like that was the attitude for both of them.
I accidentally typed "Epstain" and I think I might keep that.
Re: "Trump knew what Epstein was up to. He was fine with it. He didn’t care."
And neither does his MAGA base, really, particularly his Christian followers. David French was on with Tim yesterday. Pretty clear. He called it a 73% vs 17% split when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. All that "blessed are the meek" and charity for the poor? Bunch of woke crap to 73% of the Evangelicals. Jesus. What a loser. Frickin' guy.
People who can look at hundreds of starving children and not care won't lose any sleep at all about some sixteen year old girls getting sex trafficked from Donald Trump's resort by a pedophile.
Yeah, some of these guys are gonna get all bent out of shape, but they'll be back to "yeah, but what about the trans athletes, huh?" soon enough.
The only thing to do is to MAKE them see it. Walk them through it. Shame is the only thing left.
They only care about Democrat pedophiles--- they are the ones drinking their blood as the elixir of youth and cutting off their faces for transplantation (Hillary).
“People” is too general and “young women” is also wrong. They were girls. And I’ve heard the word recruiting used for what Maxwell was doing at Mar a Lago. She was grooming those girls for herself and for Epstein since we know she participated.
Anyone saying Maxwell is a victim has to face the fact they’re supporting a groomer for a pedophile.
Collins is up for re-election next year; time to take her down. She voted to move Bove out of Committee, knowing full well Trump would have the votes to get Bove’s nomination through.
This is the Republican’s idea of leadership. Put a hack through committee and then vote against the person on a floor vote for confirmation. And now she’ll claim she’s “shocked,” just shocked a nefarious, sadistic and corrupt person will have a lifetime appointment to the Circuit Court and will most likely be Trump’s first SCOTUS pick when either Alito or Thomas retires.
Let’s make sure to hold her to account: At best, she lacks good judgment, and at worst; you can fill in the blank.
Additionally, how’d her three SCOTUS picks turn out? Oh wait, they didn’t honor precedent when it came time to uphold Dobb’s! Exactly!
Yes, we need to find a way to take the ME seat from this “moderate” republican. Over and over the “moderate” republicans vote exactly like their maniac MAGA brethren.
Very true!…:)
Remember, according to MAGA there are no moderate Republicans, only RINOs and Uniparty people
With friends like these, who needs ene.ies.
Apparently Tom Tillis who supposedly retired so he could straight talk stuff isn't feeling that liberated
Why should he now? He never did!
Exactly!
The physical danger he faces from his constituents is still real.
That’s the price you pay for leadership, or lack thereof! It’s democrats who are being killed, not republicans. They’re being threatened, but not attacked!
Paul Pelosi, husband of Nancy; she was the target but not home.
Four Minnesota members of its legislature.
Governor Shapiro’s governor mansion set ablaze.
And the band plays on!
It is interesting, that. But the violence against Democrats is effective against Republicans too, in the way of gangster strategy. GOP politicians know what their base is capable of.
Very true, and it’s been very effective!…:)
True, but instead of showing courage and leadership, he cowers like the pathetic spineless toady he is.
Agree. It’s especially galling when combat veterans cave out of fear. My point is that I’m growing weary of the constant assumption that all these spineless MAGAs fear for their JOBS. No; they fear for their lives, and the lives of their loved ones. There are enormous implications for recognizing that truth. This is way beyond politics.
And I guess Thom Tillis is flexible when it comes to using January 6th revisionism as a criterion for rejecting a nominee. He had nothing to lose now but couldn’t do the right thing. Now this creep will torture folks for years.
Trump loses a lot of cases on appeal. Bove is just the start of packing the appeals court with his guys. (Are dead eyes standard issue in MAGA world?)
100% agree!…:)
Looks like she is incapable of learning any lesson!
Or she’s just another shrewd, morally bankrupt politician…:)
If she gets re-elected, both.
Let’s definitely hope not. If we can’t unseat her, then we have no chance in the future. Maine is a democratic leaning state, so……
Jared Golden is eyeing her seat... he's a Dem and... you should see his voting record
Good or bad?
I am appalled I went and campaigned for him. He's a yes on the SAVE act, he was the only Dem to vote WITH the Republicans on the shut down/CR. He at least voted against the Murder Bill. And his latest votes are less terrible than the ones earlier in the Trump administration.
But he's also a D who blames trans kids in sports for everything... Which he has some good company (Seth Moulton).
We need to find an alternative. I looked him up and you’re right, he’ll take Manchin’s place in the Senate as a Trojan house along with Fetterman. This is the last thing we need.
Republicans fall in line, democrats eat their own, and think they continue to believe that there are still sane, bipartisan and centrist republicans in Congress.
And even if there were some sane republicans left, they’re too afraid of their own base to actually accomplish any bipartisan solutions to our plethora of problems….:)
Collins is always there when you don't need her.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Trump's going to get away with this, too. And the reason why is because his supporters are morally degraded and would rather have a pedophile in the White House than your median Democrat. Even if there is 100% proof that Trump engaged in the worst possible stuff we can imagine, do you even doubt that someone like Catturd will land on "pedophilia is good"? Or his more religious supporters will describe pedophilia as the "natural order of things" because it establishes the dominion of man over women and children?
Think I'm crazy?
No, but I think that there are a lot of normies who support Trump that are not full MAGA might stay home if this stays in the news in 2026.
The red caps I think will honestly need to eat Trump's sin on this one too. Full Trumpists, like the folks who have gone to multiple rallies, they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time. Since they already do not have a rational or empirical worldview, it's not hard to and it's a matter of necessity for their mental well being.
But like, the normal folks who just wanted inflation down and thought Trump might do businessman-stuff to make the country better? They didn't sign up for this.
I would argue they did sign up for this. They saw the Access Hollywood stuff in 2016. They knew Trump was found civilly liable for sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll last year. So they gave themselves permission to vote for a morally compromised man because they thought they'd get something out of it.
We saw that, we knew what they signed up for.
I don't think median voters are that engaged, certainly not nearly as much as the average paid subscriber to the Bulwark.
Especially in this age of algorithmic social media bubbles, and 54% of Americans reporting now they get their news from facebook (https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/social-media-and-news-fact-sheet/), there are people who literally just don't care about politics and turned out to vote in 2024, maybe for the first time in a decade, because they were mad about inflation.
They aren't engaged or engaged as much as Fox News will let them be - seriously. I am around a lot of non-MAGA that voted for Trump like they voted for Fox-driven Presidential candidates since Fox came into being. Epstein situation, not even on the radar right now for them
Willful ignorance is a way for them to avoid responsibility.
They believe all of the trials and cases were politically motivated and the mainstream media helped the RW propaganda machine muddy the waters for normies as well. It's why the polls basically had people shrugging over them, even though they were legitimate cases!
Funny how every accusation against Trump is "politically motivated". I think it's a way for his supporters to avoid taking responsibility for their votes. Personally, MAP, I'm at the point where I agree with what Jeff wrote somewhere in this thread: if voters don't renounce their support of Trump, it is because they are either sympathetic towards pedophiles or they're pedophiles themselves. The modern GOP has been playing Manichean games for years. It's time we do, too, only crank the volume by 100 dB.
I don't think Trump supporters are at all sympathetic toward child rapists, nor child rapists themselves (although of course some will be, given that estimates put the frequency of male pedophilia around a stunning 2%). It is these charges of serial rapes of minors which have fractured the MAGA base.
But. They are uniquely disposed to attribute any reports of moral failure or criminal behaviour on Trump's part as unjust lies, those witch hunts Trump is always shrilling about.
I can only assume their desperate desire for their lives to be made easier, more prosperous and secure (with no effort on their part, btw) is to put blind, utterly blind, and unquestioning faith in Trump. They want to believe.
Oh, hell I agree, and it's because he says it and the media repeats it over and over and over again. The RWPM (right wing propaganda machine) comes out of the gate that it's political. The MM piles on by repeating in quotes (of course) and headlines, and by bothsiding.
I can't disagree with you. Last year a local produced signs in my area that said if you're a democrat you're a pedophile. We need to make them: if you are republican you support pedophiles.
I've seen a few memes that tend in that direction:
GOP = Guardians Of Pedophiles
MAGA = Making Adolescent Girls Available
Much depends on getting as many of the 60+% who did NOT vote for Trump out and to the polls.
If concentration camps, deportations to who knows where, saddling the nation with astronomical debt for a cash payout to self and cronies, ripping up Medicaid, the Education department, neutering the FBI and CIA, looking like he diddled young girls, or at least protected and partied with those who did diddle young girls don't do it....
If the media doesn't cover them as such, then people don't know and don't care. Inflation and the "near collapse of the economy" was in the news every damn day for the past several years—until now. Now, you get a one off about the price of beef going up, or chocolate. That's it. There is no drumbeat that trickles down from the ether into people's brains and daily conversations.
Like I said elsewhere yesterday, the economy was all you heard about from voters last year. Have prices gotten cheaper? No. Have they gone up? Yes. Yet yet yet . . . consumer confidence in the economy ticked up in July. Are they shopping at different stores? Nope. But one thing is different—how much they hear about it via the news or diffused from those who do "follow the news." Last year my local channel had a whole series on how inflation was affecting your pocket book. This summer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dead silence.
We know about the concentration camps. We know about the deportations. Some in the hinterlands know because they have been touched by them. But most Americans are oblivious. But they knew all about Biden's old and HRC's emails. Now, why is that? What makes the difference in knowing or not knowing?
Just because many people no longer get their news from newspapers or the teevee, the mainstream outlets still influence the narrative that does reach them—both in how the RW propaganda machine answers MM coverage and how MM address what the RWPM is putting out as well.
Coffee is more expensive now than it was in November 2024 (I made a point of checking what it was then).
This country voted for lawless, amoral douchebag and we didn't even get cheap coffee! I WAS PROMISED LOWER PRICES ON DAY ONE, WHERE IS MY CHEAP COFFEE DAMMIT
Yep. I'm not a coffee drinker so didn't think of that as an example but yes.
I agree. And the media should be beating the drum every day with Epstein and why aren't prices lower? But they won't. They say they aren't for Trump but they are in the same kind of way as the Senator from Maine.
Faux News has much to answer for, and its existence is only possible because the Fairness Doctrine was struck down.
That's true. And its owner Murdoch hates the US he wants it to dissolve into a fascist state with a depressed economy that is hated by the rest of the world. He wants the US isolated and crippled. He will still have pretty airheads doling out propaganda about how everything is the Democrats fault in spite of the Government being controlled by Republicans. And he will be raking in millions.
I do not understand why. I get being avaricious and I can even understand having a lust for unbridled power. But if the USA continues much longer on its present trajectory, millions will be plunged into misery. Literally millions...and all the good work that the USA was doing, and is doing no longer, will bring untold more miseries to masses of folks across the globe. And for what? So the Murdochs can buy more estates?
I think maybe the decision of "normie" voters in 2026 will be governed by how angry they are at the Republican Congress by that time and less about Trump. There are really only a handful of truly competitive seats held by Republicans and Democrats need to relentlessly tie them to the bad policies they are angry about even more than Trump.
As for the "Red Heads" epistemic collapse happened years ago. When women at Trump rallies wore T-shirts saying "You can grab me by the pussy!" with arrows pointed down to their nether regions.
Plus you actually have to have "cognition" in order to have dissonance!
Well said.
"they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time"
They know who "Daddy" is: he is their retribution, he is God's chosen avatar on Earth who Makes America Great Again and who makes libs cry. They DGAF about anything else he's done.
Again, I think he is truly their Orange Jesus....they are so desperate for their lives to immediately be made easier, more prosperous and safe (with no effort expended on their part) that they put their blind and utterly unquestioning faith in Trump, who tells them what they want to hear. They deeply, deeply want to believe.
"it's a matter of necessity for their mental well being."
Did you READ today's "Cheap Shots"?
Their mental well being is way out to sea. . . and drowning fast.
The sooner the better, for the country's sake. We'd all be better off if we were at least having political discourse grounded in reality.
The solution for his supporters is pretty simple. Call them what they are if they continue to support Trump - they are child rapist apologists at best, and closet pedophiles most likely. If they can support someone who at the very least KNEW what Epstein was doing and more than likely participated in it, well, I think their new label as a supporter of child rape is more than justified.
If they get pissed off? Good. They should be mad. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they continue to support child rapists, so F them.
That 47 is/was a rascal playboy is never in doubt. That he might have enjoyed the "services" of underage girls procured by others would not be "news" to anyone but the most naiive fan. And many fans would consider his "success" with women to be a virtue. This is why he is untouchable by the known Epstein offenses. But, then, why is he flailing so desperately to knock out the matter? Is there something far different lying under the surface?
There have been people purporting that the falling out wasn’t about the women but about finances and where DJT was getting his money from or rather from whom and how. He’s always been notoriously prickly about anything to do with his finances which makes me wonder if there isn’t information about that in the files.
This is what I think. He is so paranoid about "the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax," that I think the files might point to Russia.
Good point.
Thank you. I was surprised by his sudden chattiness about "Epstein stealing the spa workers." So soon after the DOJ visits to Maxwell. Have they decided to throw Epstein stuff around so that they give the appearance of being forthcoming? To evade calls for the release of the files?
Slightly more than a rascal playboy. He has committed sexual assault, confirmed both by a jury and himself.
I've been wondering if there's something to do with Melania or even Ivanka. I can't imagine Trmp protecting anyone else in the world besides those two.
Not accusing them of anything; but they may have some sort of untoward experience involving Epstein that he would prefer remain unknown.
Look at the pictures of the felon and his teenaged daughter. Creepy and suggestive. Even Mary Trump reported in her book about the felon's comments about her "rack". Oh yeah, this guy is trash.
In my opinion Trump is more likely to abuse Ivanka and Melania. Any “protection” he might display is protecting himself.
How likely is that? Epstein would have been shot on 5th Avenue by Trump if he had laid a hand on either one of them.
I suspect there is something darker, and it is probably on a video tape somewhere. But more to the point perhaps, he hates to think he has any blots on his copy book. Can't ever be held to have made a mistake.
And...the one thing he cannot afford is to be out of office. As soon as he is out of the Oval Office, he will be facing trial and will likely be given a prison sentence. So I think the flailing can simply be explained by a terror that anything might come along that causes him to be dethroned.
I don't know Tim, there is a victim's deposition that alleges Trump raped her when she was 13 at Epstein's apartment in NY. It might depend on how many victims come forward. If Trump pardons Maxwell that is not going to go over well with the victims she groomed for the entertainment of men like Trump.
I think one of the reasons Trump can't change the narrative is because this narrative is much bigger than just him.
Right on. You may think the dragon’s your pet, but it’s not, even if you fed it.
Absolutely. The felon is about to hit the iceberg.
Yes, and Michael Wolff has written that when he was interviewing Epstein, Epstein brought out several photos of Trump with young girls on his lap, and the photos were taken either at Epstein's apartment or his Palm Beach house.
Trump is using the phrase "I never *had the privilege* to go to the island" to deny he is guilty of sexually assaulting the young girls. Some commentators have noted his use of "privilege" here, but they need to press him on the *privileges* he had at Epstein's other properties as well.
https://open.substack.com/pub/katemanne/p/the-actual-conspiracy-theory-surrounding?r=n8sec&utm_medium=ios
Kate Manne, an Australian philosopher and associate professor at Cornell University, took down the words of a woman who describes her encounter with Trump. It’s a rough read, and really incriminating if true.
Nope. All they want is to own the libs. The libs are women and gay people. Therefore, pedophilia will disgust the libs. Putting a child rapist above us and demanding we respect him is the ultimate in owning the libs. We have never been so owned.
Perfect description of just how unserious these assholes are. They're just watching "wrestling".
No, I don't think you're crazy. I've lost track of the number of times I thought "ok, this is it, Trump is finished" and then... nothing. The truest thing Trump ever said was, "I could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any supporters."
Apparently the Democrats don't have the taste for blood that this situation requires. Their messaging should be consistent: the GOP is the party that supports and protects pedophiles. When someone like Mike Johnson or Ted Cruz objects -- and they will -- the only response should be, "When did you stop diddling children?"
Agree that Trump will get away with it, but not that Evangelicals will suddenly embrace child sexual abuse. It is called compartmentalization and, to a certain extent, we all do it.
Yes, we do. But the more self-aware of us know when something is wrong.
Most of MAGA are still in denial over Epstein.
If it’s true - and I think it is with MAGA - that every accusation is a confession, then a lot of their past and ongoing obsession with pedophilia is a sign of their desire to be in on it. It’s an ugly thought, but it fits a pattern.
I'm seeing a lot of "If it's so bad why did the Dems sit in this for four years?" A lot.
Apparently these same people don't realize that the Dems lost control of the House in 2022 and did not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate.
Also, these same people voted for the "Access Hollywood Grab 'Em By The -----" guy and the "I Sexually Assaulted E. Jean Carroll" guy.
Anything to avoid responsibility for their votes. The fact their vote carries the same weight as mine disgusts me to no end.
We just have to keep pointing out that putting Maxwell in prison is not nothing.
Agree.
NO!
Nope.
Not crazy at all. The problem is normal people think MAGA, and Christian fascists are basically good people who are being bamboozled by Trump. If we could make them see what a bloated bag of hate he is, they would stop supporting him. But that's wrong. They love him because they hate the idea that doing good for the country helps all of us. To them, there is no "us". Just them and everyone else should die or be in concentration camps.
Re T's comments about Epstein hiring his employees away from him, I'll repost a revised version of comments I made on Sam and Andrew's video yesterday:
I know there is so much in this whole years-long ordeal that is utterly repulsive and nauseating. But to focus on one particular aspect of these latest revelations, my question is why in the hell didn't one of those reporters ask him, "HIRED BY EPSTEIN FOR WHAT EXACTLY???" How would T have answered that?
I mean it's not as if Epstein ran a rival spa. The only supposed profession I've heard of him having is as some kind of financial advisor. So T just admitted he knew Epstein "hired" them. Is T or anyone else really going to pretend he didn't know what Epstein was recruiting them for? when they were best friends?
As Bill says, "Trump knew what Epstein was up to. He was fine with it. He didn’t care." So is anyone going to do anything about it?
"So is anyone going to do anything about it?"
No. The time to "do anything about it" was last November. Instead, 77 million people voted to put an adjudicated rapist back in the White House because the price of eggs was too high.
Biden looked pretty old in that debate, too. See, we HAD to elect the felon.
And Biden was so old, we had to elect someone older than Kamala Harris. The things we give ourselves permission to do will never not be darkly amusing.
And Kamala was female as well.
Which of course was one of the losing issues. Better to vote for a felonious white male adjudicated rapist that a brilliant black female prosecutor.
"No foreign leaders will respect her!"
Meanwhile, a week ago in Europe people out of the blue were questioning me about how we could have chosen Trump.
Too old, too young. Who knew Trump would be the Goldilocks candidate.
Just remember that he is complaining about Jeffrey stealing a 16 year old Trump spa employee. WTF was T hiring 16 yos for his “spa”?
“As Bill says, "Trump knew what Epstein was up to. He was fine with it. He didn’t care." So is anyone going to do anything about it?”
Great points. And notice, it was all about poaching employees, not a word about the victims. As a former prosecutor for W Palm Beach had said when parents complained about Epstein before he was finally arrested and then got his sweet plea deal; “there are no victims here!”
And this exemplifies how republicans view this story; they’re tone deaf! They never cared about the kids. Hell, how many pedophiles, rapists and sexual traffickers has Trump already pardoned? Too many to count!
That said, remember the Tate Brothers? He forced Romania to allow them back into the US when they were in house arrest for rape and human trafficking. Need I say more? Oh, the irony!….:)
do you have a source for what the former prosecutor said?
Tara Palmeri; she mentioned this in one of her recent podcasts. And for what it’s worth, while she didn’t name the prosecutor who refused to prosecute; even though the police had a solid case, it was a woman who said it.
too hard to find to validate what she said without a name
Here you go:
“A prosecutor in Palm Beach County, Florida, Lanna Belohlavek, reportedly stated multiple times that there were "no victims" in the Jeffrey Epstein case during grand jury proceedings in 2006.
Belohlavek, then a chief child sex crimes prosecutor for the Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office, led the grand jury proceedings against Epstein. However, according to reports, she undermined the testimony of the only victim who testified by using the girl's MySpace pages, which reportedly depicted simulated sex, drinking, and drugs. This approach, coupled with the assertion that there were no victims, contributed to the controversial outcome of the initial prosecution of Epstein in Palm Beach County.”
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2024/07/01/long-secret-judge-has-released-epstein-grand-jury-records/
Thank you! I appreciate getting all the facts and an especially a link.
Prosecutors defending Epstein! The powerful protecting the powerful. Makes me sick. However, that was 2006. Law enforcement no longer summarily dismisses victims.
You make an excellent point about the softball nature of the questions "journalists" toss him. But remember, he bars anyone but pet media from access.
As in Scotland, journalists, real ones, need to buy a megaphone and ask the pertinent questions any time he appears in public.
Shall we make up a list of the necessary questions? Starting with your excellent "Hired by Epstein to do what?"
On a billboard in 50 states!
even better
Great idea!
"'HIRED BY EPSTEIN FOR WHAT EXACTLY???' ... t's not as if Epstein ran a rival spa." excellent point.
Even if Epstein did run a rival spa, who gets upset about losing a teenage helper?
That's an excellent point. Trump was running a resort. There was a spa there. Hiring sixteen-year-olds to check people in, make sure the supplies are restocked and whatnot is reasonable. That's the kind of job sixteen-year-olds do in the hospitality industry.
But Jeffrey Epstein didn't run a resort.
What did he hire them to do?
Trump had a big beef with Epstein about this (he says), so what was his understanding? He never asked? (I suspect that's what he'll say, "Y'know, I don't know. He hired them. I told him, 'Jeffrey, don't do that.' And he did it. And I told him not to and he did it again and that was it. I was through with him. He stole my people and that's not okay, okay?")
When I get upset about losing an employee to a competitor, it's always professional staff. Who gets upset about turnover on teenagers passing out spa towels? Unless, something "else" was really going on.
Excellent point! Hadn't thought of that.
Trump owns the place! Since when does a guy in that position even know who all those kids running around are? Those hiring and firing decisions would be handled by people way below the level of Donald Trump, wouldn't they?
But Trump did know. And he cared enough to bring it up with the guy who hired those kids away. He 1) knew it happened, 2) knew where they went, 3) knew who was involved and 3) took time out of his day to talk to the guy who "hired" them and told him not to do it again.
That is all so suspicious. Why aren't the MAGA conspiracy theorists all over this? This whole thing stinks on ice.
Put that up on a billboard in all 50 states!
Evil Bove's confirmation is going under the radar. I think this is a dangerous confirmation. Talk about it - often and repeatedly.
Don’t like the jurisdiction in Bove’s appointment. Does Biden live in Delaware? Didn’t Epstein’s crimes happen in the US Virgin Islands? Sounds like another Aileen Cannon plant to me.
Not to mention all the corporate shenanigans he can quash for Trump’s friends.
Cannon didn’t get to pick her cases. Unfortunately for America, she got the job. But she was so good at running interference, she probably led the way for Bove, the perfect foil for Felon Trump.
Trump often loses in appeals court. Solution: pack the appeals court. Bove’s just a start.
More bad news: Texas Republicans just unveiled a shocking plan to give their party five new House seats.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/07/texas-gerrymandering-redistricting-maps-donald-trump/
Of course.
Status Kuo covered it this morning. Free to read:
https://statuskuo.substack.com/p/but-his-emils
Regardless of what happens with the Epstein scandal (will this be the scandal that brings down Trump?), people need to understand that Trump has become a consequential President, for good or bad, or both, even if he drops dead tomorrow. Trump has exposed the fundamental weaknesses in the US constitutional order and the nature of the American people, likely permanently changed the post World War II international order to the benefit of China and other dictatorships, and fundamentally changed economic policies and international supply chains. I remind everyone that President Biden retained Trump’s first term tariffs, and expanded them. Does anyone seriously believe a Democratic Party President is going to overturn them and give up the revenue and protections for various US industries? Highly unlikely. The administrative state has been permanently damaged and it will be difficult to rebuild it, especially since the Supreme Court has given carte blanche to any future President to act unilaterally and undo whatever a Democratic President enacts. The Trump tax cuts for the wealthy are permanent and the few Middle Class benefits (increased deductions for seniors, no taxes on tips and overtime, all below certain income levels) expire in 2029. If Democrats take full control in 2029 are they going to let them expire and take the blame? And I remind everyone that the Trump tax cuts were not repealed when Democrats controlled the Presidency and Congress, not even for the ultra wealthy. The fiscal situation of the US, which was not great but at least fixable after the Obama Presidency, is now dire and cannot be addressed without significant cuts to Middle Class benefits even if taxes on the wealthy are doubled (assuming the wealthy don’t evade them, as they typically fund a way to do). So the concept of expanded government programs is not feasible and it would be a major accomplishment just to maintain current programs without significant cuts. The European Union has been fully exposed as a weak and pathetic counterweight to US and Chinese economic power and China is expanding its economic production and alliances around the world. Trump has likely fatally damaged the ability of the US clean energy industry to compete against China. High quality immigrants who drive startup technology companies are now looking elsewhere to start businesses. The so-called progressive people who stayed home in 2016 or refused to vote for (admittedly flawed) Hillary Clinton and the remaining principled Republicans who refused to bite the bullet and vote for Clinton allowing Trump to pull an inside straight to win the 2016 election and set us on this course will reap the “rewards” along with the rest of us who saw this train wreck miles away. I don’t know how we fix this, and I have lost confidence in the American people and our leadership.
A pessimistic take but is also my take.
So Trump had an underage girl working in his spa for him and his resort. Hummmmm
Not defending. But Virginia’s dad worked in maintenance and probably helped her get the job as towel girl. That’s where Maxwell spotted her. Started grooming her. Eventually raped her along with Epstein.
When my kids were 16, they worked in hospitality jobs too. That's not the issue.
Regardless of how she got the job, underage and being groomed to be groped (not to be too graphic) are the operative words.
she wasn't underage for employment at trump's spa at 16.
Legal age in Florida? OK, if you say so. Might be instructive to know her actual birth date and when she started there, but only on the fringes. The real reason she got the job seemed to be obvious to the Felon, Epstein and Maxwell.
there is no evidence of that. you're just speculating or opining.
No evidence? OK, only what the Felon said at various times, what Maxwell was convicted of, and what we all know Epstein was doing, but, do I have a smoking gun about her in particular, no. On the other hand, if it looks like, acts like, walks like, talks like, etc. etc. etc. As you know, circumstantial evidence can be more convincing than one or two facts.
Not to mention all of those, certainly, no doubt about it, legal immigrants cleaning Mirage a Loco's toilets....
Good catch!
Teenagers can work in resorts during the summer (I did), so I’m not sure there’s a there, there…:)
Fair enough ... if it was in the summer and for "legitmate, legal" work😏.
Trump's blabber mouth reminds me unironically of Ted Bundy (the serial killer). If you're familiar with Florida history / true crime, Bundy was convinced he was the smartest person and best equipped to argue his own defense so he routinely defended himself in court and sidelined or fired his defense attorneys. And he did himself no favors, because he showed himself to the court room and the jury to be a demented sociopathic serial killer and malignant narcissist as he cross examined witnesses and victims (remember, as the perpetrator).
Trump really thinks he knows best and if he keeps talking he will wiggle out of anything. Like Bundy, it can work for him for a long time. But eventually a malignant narcissist will gladly tie their own noose and swing themselves from the gallows just to prove how smart they are and good they are at tying knots. All the democrats need to do is keep giving Trump rope and asking him about the under-aged girls he now admits were working in his spa.
she wasn't underage for employment at his spa.
As far as Maxwell, she’s worse than Epstein. Without her, he never would have been able to recruit all these children for their nefarious pleasure.
She was definitely the mastermind, and from what I understand, participated in the “rapes!”
She doesn’t deserve a pardon or commutation, but neither did any of Trump’s other recipients of his grandeur.
As Trump slips further into dementia, more secrets will come out as he loses the ability to govern his speech (which was never very strong in his case). His long digression on windmills the other day was completely nuts, and indicative of his inability to stop himself.
That Epstein was supposed to have "stolen" employees--girls--from Mar a Lago's spa--"World class!"--dovetails nicely with the fact that Maxwell's MO was first to recruit girls to give Epstein massages, which led to other things. I would say that it was probably Maxwell who "stole" these employees from Trump.
Actually, whether it was him or her, as Rhett Butler famously said, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". One of them did it, the Felon knew about it, and cared as much about it as he does about anything but himself.
My thought is that he knew exactly for what purpose the employees were "stolen."
NO! Say it ain't so! You really think so??? (I hope I do not need to say: sarcasm alert.)
Which is why it's so weird that he would volunteer this account when the real estate deal narrative was still afloat.
You are expecting rational thought from the Felon, who appears to this layman to be showing signs of adult dementia: Incoherent sentences, basic English, little exposition, attention span of a brain-worm....
The fifty day ultimatum for Putin was daft enough; the switch to 10-12 days is cuckoo.
That Maxwell knew and did all that does bother me. She wants immunity, and then a pardon. She was the only guilty person we know of this whole sick mess. That she goes free as will all those men, all those banks, is repulsive. The “elites” always go free. That’s why Americans do not trust anything that our government people say. In Reagan’s administration, that was probably the last time criminals actually were arrested and put in jail, regardless of their political affiliations.
Preferential treatment of the elites, on steroids, began with Reagan.
Katherine, a saying I use at times like these: People in Hell want ice water, too. She can "want" immunity and a pardon" all she wants, but she did not demand that to talk to the Felon's former lawyer two days in a row (if that timeline can be believed). Did he promise her he wouldn't tell anyone what she said? Of course not. But, then, she was probably not under oath when talking to Todd B., so what is that worth, anyway?
Not the paper it was printed on without her signature.
She was also convicted of perjury along with the sex charges. Those charges were apparently dropped in a post-trial bargain with her and her attorneys to maintain the sex convictions after it was discovered that one juror had been sexually abused and not disclosed that fact. So, even if she signed a piece of paper, it would not really mean anything.
Good. I read about her perjury, which puts her in league with Republicans; they never saw a liar they didn’t like, as long as that person was a Republican
Therein lies Trump' problem. No pardon, no zipped lip.
She hasn’t gone free…yet.
Absolutely, maybe she won’t be the one to get a “Get out of jail card.”
PoTAtoes, PoTaToes! That Trump KNEW those two were working together to take his “girls” into sexual slavery and did nothing of substance to stop him. ( And Epstein’s brother said Jeoffrey broke up the bromance because Trump was a crook. Rich!)
Keep your eyes on the prize!
Yes. These were not gardeners or sou chefs.
Epstein suddenly found out that Trump was a crook?
A masseuse rustler...
The language about "taking" people really highlights Trmp's attitude that women are just commodities. When Epstein "took" young women, does that mean he owned them now? It really feels like that was the attitude for both of them.
I accidentally typed "Epstain" and I think I might keep that.
"He stole her." His property. His girl to abuse.
Who gets upset about losing a teenage employee?
I’m convinced that something in the Epstein files is very damning.
But no one has talked about ‘The Money’ involved with Epstein. Epstein was apparently worth millions!
So where did it come from?
Where did it go?
How was it used? There is a lot more there than has been reported.
Who was involved?
Ron Wyden Oregon senator has been looking into this for some time
Lots of girls from Eastern Europe. Money laundering?
see https://youtu.be/zJsBeaNLeuk?si=unYuA8iCi0XdilKj
Re: "Trump knew what Epstein was up to. He was fine with it. He didn’t care."
And neither does his MAGA base, really, particularly his Christian followers. David French was on with Tim yesterday. Pretty clear. He called it a 73% vs 17% split when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. All that "blessed are the meek" and charity for the poor? Bunch of woke crap to 73% of the Evangelicals. Jesus. What a loser. Frickin' guy.
People who can look at hundreds of starving children and not care won't lose any sleep at all about some sixteen year old girls getting sex trafficked from Donald Trump's resort by a pedophile.
Yeah, some of these guys are gonna get all bent out of shape, but they'll be back to "yeah, but what about the trans athletes, huh?" soon enough.
The only thing to do is to MAKE them see it. Walk them through it. Shame is the only thing left.
They only care about Democrat pedophiles--- they are the ones drinking their blood as the elixir of youth and cutting off their faces for transplantation (Hillary).
“People” is too general and “young women” is also wrong. They were girls. And I’ve heard the word recruiting used for what Maxwell was doing at Mar a Lago. She was grooming those girls for herself and for Epstein since we know she participated.
Anyone saying Maxwell is a victim has to face the fact they’re supporting a groomer for a pedophile.
Epstein "stole" human beings, young girls, from Trump. Totally normal thing to say... God, Trump is such a POS