I live in Brazil, so as you can imagine, I like Brazilians. In fact, I'm a dual national -- US citizen by birth, Brazilian citizen by naturalization (and a Biden/Lula voter, if that matters to anyone). I'm a legal immigrant, so besides liking Brazilians, I like legal immigration, too.
I have a problem with importing poor people so that …
I live in Brazil, so as you can imagine, I like Brazilians. In fact, I'm a dual national -- US citizen by birth, Brazilian citizen by naturalization (and a Biden/Lula voter, if that matters to anyone). I'm a legal immigrant, so besides liking Brazilians, I like legal immigration, too.
I have a problem with importing poor people so that we can exploit them. Jobs in the US that American citizens won't take should be improved so that they will take them, and if they can't be, then that work should be re-evaluated to find another way to do it, or to stop doing it altogether.
I would be willing to bet money that NO Brazilian you know is a legitimate asylum seeker, meeting the requirements defined in US and international law. This is a free country, people can come and go as they please, and are free to seek a better life anywhere they please, as far as the Brazilian government is concerned. I'm sure that those Brazilians are very hard-working: they're the definition of economic migrants.
Another interesting thing about the Brazilians living illegally in Boston: they're almost all from or came through the same place, the city of Governador Valadares in the State of Minas Gerais. Valadares is the home of a thriving illegal immigration industry, exploiting the loopholes in US law and enforcement. Having a travel agency, of course, is not illegal in Brazil, and neither is having US dollars. And it's no accident that the rare US deportation flights to Brazil land in Belo Horizonte, rather than São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, or Brasília. Belo Horizonte is the capital of Minas Gerais, so the deportees are landed close to home.
A final point. Brazil has a liberal asylum policy that conforms strictly to international law. It's legal immigration policy is based on admitting immigrants who bring demonstrable skills that the Brazilian economy needs, or have family connections to the country, with safeguards to prevent chain migration. What it doesn't have is an illegal immigration problem. That's because employer sanctions against people or companies that hire illegals are strictly enforced, and its immigration policies have broad support across the political spectrum from Left to Right, who all recognize the right and the obligation of the government to safeguard the country's borders and provide for its orderly development.
I think allowing people who want to come here to work in restaurants or wherever can be structured in ways that are not automatically exploitive. Making them legal via work permits could prevent that - they would be subject to the same minimum wage and worker protection laws as anyone else. My grandfather came over from Sicily. He was poor. He drove a truck delivering bananas to grocery stores. My grandmother took in washing. One of their great grandchildren is a now a law school prof, their great great children are attending Boston Univ and the Univ of Chicago. Yes, I know there is a different economic situation today, but there are still ways to offer migrants a chance for better lives here.
Australia and New Zealand are able to staff restaurants without waves of unskilled immigration, by paying decent wages and charging prices that support them. We make massive use of underpaid labor to subsidize cheap food across the agricultural spectrum; it's important not to let a nostalgic view of a different time that required a different immigration policy blind us to that. We are entitled to have an immigration system that supports our own economic development and needs, and we should be willing to pay for it: we seem to be the only country in the world with an influential segment of its population that objects to that seemingly self-evident fact.
As far as the food industry is concerned, if we can't grow certain crops for a price that makes economic sense, then we should be importing them from countries that can, not importing people to do stoop labor and underpaying them. The same goes for restaurant work. And some of the things that we can do because of our broken immigration system, like growing strawberries, almonds, and lettuce in the desert, we shouldn't be doing at all, and won't be able to do much longer for lack of water, even if we continue to refuse to make hard decisions.
That said, we DO need more immigration to support non-food service industries. I honestly don't know how to square that circle in a way that doesn't exploit other people's desperation; I just know that a way has to be found.
“We should pay for it”. I agree with everything you’re saying, but just wait until you hear the reaction from “the average person” if we actually paid restaurant workers the right wage, and agricultural workers too. Prices would skyrocket because owners would have an easy out to increase prices to keep profits at their level. I don’t think it’s sustainable and again- agree with your take on this. I guess my point is that’s an astronomical cultural change in the USA.
You're right, and I certainly would never argue against "astronomical cultural change": we need it, because our current practices are unsustainable, in so many ways. If we could just talk to each other and agree on some of the things that need to change!
I hope the realize that I Absolutely agree that importing people in order to exploit them is terribly wrong. My comments answering the person who referenced meat packing plants was just to acknowledge other places I’ve experienced hard working undocumented immigrants. The often come in on a temporary Green Card, stay on when the job/card expires to work for themselves and don’t procure another Green Card.
I live in Brazil, so as you can imagine, I like Brazilians. In fact, I'm a dual national -- US citizen by birth, Brazilian citizen by naturalization (and a Biden/Lula voter, if that matters to anyone). I'm a legal immigrant, so besides liking Brazilians, I like legal immigration, too.
I have a problem with importing poor people so that we can exploit them. Jobs in the US that American citizens won't take should be improved so that they will take them, and if they can't be, then that work should be re-evaluated to find another way to do it, or to stop doing it altogether.
I would be willing to bet money that NO Brazilian you know is a legitimate asylum seeker, meeting the requirements defined in US and international law. This is a free country, people can come and go as they please, and are free to seek a better life anywhere they please, as far as the Brazilian government is concerned. I'm sure that those Brazilians are very hard-working: they're the definition of economic migrants.
Another interesting thing about the Brazilians living illegally in Boston: they're almost all from or came through the same place, the city of Governador Valadares in the State of Minas Gerais. Valadares is the home of a thriving illegal immigration industry, exploiting the loopholes in US law and enforcement. Having a travel agency, of course, is not illegal in Brazil, and neither is having US dollars. And it's no accident that the rare US deportation flights to Brazil land in Belo Horizonte, rather than São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, or Brasília. Belo Horizonte is the capital of Minas Gerais, so the deportees are landed close to home.
A final point. Brazil has a liberal asylum policy that conforms strictly to international law. It's legal immigration policy is based on admitting immigrants who bring demonstrable skills that the Brazilian economy needs, or have family connections to the country, with safeguards to prevent chain migration. What it doesn't have is an illegal immigration problem. That's because employer sanctions against people or companies that hire illegals are strictly enforced, and its immigration policies have broad support across the political spectrum from Left to Right, who all recognize the right and the obligation of the government to safeguard the country's borders and provide for its orderly development.
I think allowing people who want to come here to work in restaurants or wherever can be structured in ways that are not automatically exploitive. Making them legal via work permits could prevent that - they would be subject to the same minimum wage and worker protection laws as anyone else. My grandfather came over from Sicily. He was poor. He drove a truck delivering bananas to grocery stores. My grandmother took in washing. One of their great grandchildren is a now a law school prof, their great great children are attending Boston Univ and the Univ of Chicago. Yes, I know there is a different economic situation today, but there are still ways to offer migrants a chance for better lives here.
Australia and New Zealand are able to staff restaurants without waves of unskilled immigration, by paying decent wages and charging prices that support them. We make massive use of underpaid labor to subsidize cheap food across the agricultural spectrum; it's important not to let a nostalgic view of a different time that required a different immigration policy blind us to that. We are entitled to have an immigration system that supports our own economic development and needs, and we should be willing to pay for it: we seem to be the only country in the world with an influential segment of its population that objects to that seemingly self-evident fact.
As far as the food industry is concerned, if we can't grow certain crops for a price that makes economic sense, then we should be importing them from countries that can, not importing people to do stoop labor and underpaying them. The same goes for restaurant work. And some of the things that we can do because of our broken immigration system, like growing strawberries, almonds, and lettuce in the desert, we shouldn't be doing at all, and won't be able to do much longer for lack of water, even if we continue to refuse to make hard decisions.
That said, we DO need more immigration to support non-food service industries. I honestly don't know how to square that circle in a way that doesn't exploit other people's desperation; I just know that a way has to be found.
“We should pay for it”. I agree with everything you’re saying, but just wait until you hear the reaction from “the average person” if we actually paid restaurant workers the right wage, and agricultural workers too. Prices would skyrocket because owners would have an easy out to increase prices to keep profits at their level. I don’t think it’s sustainable and again- agree with your take on this. I guess my point is that’s an astronomical cultural change in the USA.
You're right, and I certainly would never argue against "astronomical cultural change": we need it, because our current practices are unsustainable, in so many ways. If we could just talk to each other and agree on some of the things that need to change!
I hope the realize that I Absolutely agree that importing people in order to exploit them is terribly wrong. My comments answering the person who referenced meat packing plants was just to acknowledge other places I’ve experienced hard working undocumented immigrants. The often come in on a temporary Green Card, stay on when the job/card expires to work for themselves and don’t procure another Green Card.
SallyJones