Dave Chapelle, Bill Maher, Bill Burr, Louis CK, et al are talented.
But many of these comedians have lost the plot that made their humor funny.
All of these comics succeed in voicing the taboo doubts that bang around inside our skulls. The tensions within those taboo doubts can be funny and reverberate with audiences. However, allowing the taboo part to overwhelm a general ethic of caring for the most oppressed and exploited members of our society -- because they think the market is shifting, because they see a chance to profit, because they are self-absorbed and resentful of criticism -- is a grave error of both political and artistic judgement. Resentment isn't funny without some ironic counterpoint.
Burr and CK seem to remember that counterpoint, and its irony.
Chapelle and Maher have mostly become tedious scolds.
Chapelle's claims are the most ironic and self-absorbed, broadcasting complaints that he's a victim of woke cancel culture from his massively networked Netflix comedy special.
Maher has revealed that he's mostly a 1956-born thin-skinned Boomer who is unwilling to consider the responsibility that comes with controlling a major media platform might be in tension with the notion that comedy is an artform beyond rapproche. He gaslights his audience by peppering his scolding lectures with one-liners, which gives him the plausible denial that "its just comedy." But a stand-up in a club is actually vulnerable. They can be booed of stage. Maher wants to wrap himself in that image all the while having complete control of the conversation, the guests, the set, and the editing machine. Yes that's practical, but its not a position of vulnerability, its a position of power.
I have to say I'm very disappointed, and especially with Bill Burr. I'm into comedy, like REALLY into comedy. I still have George Carlin and Cheech & Chong on Vinyl from the fucking 70's when that shit was new! George Carlin 🖤 still my all time favorite. Only got to see him perform once, at the tail end sadly. He was gone a few short months later.
But Bill Burr was right there! Almost tied with George! I went WAY out of my way not only to secure tickets to the Fenway kickoff of his last tour as a birthday gift to a friend, I made sure my brothers and me got front row seats when he came to their area and flew half way across the country just to go to that show with my brothers.
Now, did Bill say some fucked up shit about trans people? Yeah, sure, but I can take a joke and my last name's not Trump (yeah, I did that, that just happened) so I'm not gonna say fuck that guy for making a joke that was objectively funny... it's his fucking job and edgy is his brand. Just like George. Also real talk, that first show at Fenway, I swear I was laughing so hard I thought I might pass out from lack of oxygen.
Then I hear Bill talking about "Yeah, it's cool, there's a MacDonalds, next to a Starbucks, next to a KFC, next to a Dunks or some shit about Saudi and I'm like starting to think... this motherfucker, he's been bought and sold the fuck out!
The heir apparent to George Carlin, sold his soul, compromised his principals as an "I'm gonna say it if it's funny" no matter what the cost. Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and Richard Pryor all got arrested for jokes they told and Bull fucking Burr goes to fucking Riyadh and censors himself... for fucking money.
This is what I have to say to Bill Burr
You already live the life. You just went on a sell out stadium tour. You're learning how to fly around in helicopters because, what? Why not? You didn't need their money... you cold have told them to pound the sand right outside the edge of their palaces. Instead, you went the LIV Golf route. Sold out like every cocksucker that cheapens the game by making it into some superstar fucking sporting event when really, it's a kinda nerdy obsession that only the people who actually play golf give a single shit about.
So congrats Bill. You lost your biggest fan. Not only will I not watch you perform new materiel, and definitely won't watch any of that Riyadh shit. I'll walk out of any room I hear your voice in. 🖕🏻
I’m kinda with him on this. You get asked and offered and it’s worth it to you? Take the $ and go about your business. HOWEVER, you had better be willing to own your shit. All of it with no BS justifications on the backend. They appear to have skipped that bit.
Like Clive from South Park, everyone’s gotta make their nut :) totally agree - the concept of comedy fest in SA isn’t bad. Lord knows they cld benefit from looser speech norms. The kowtowing was unseemly tho
Well, except that no one but the limited few who are in with the regime and already travel out of the country went to this show. This wasn’t bringing truth and free speech to the masses.
“America should zealously defend its position as the last real bastion of free speech in the world.” There it goes again, the very American self delusion of exceptionalism. I’ve spent many hours hanging out with people of many “Western” societies, but self-censorship among Americans is much stronger. For example, looking at all the well considered content of The Bulwark you’d never think that Israel has killed more Palestinians in Gaza than Ukrainian civilians have been killed by Russia. Israel’s brutality has full material and political support of the US government, but somehow that is rarely mentioned in these pages. Dozens of women and children dead every day in Gaza are met with silence here and in most US media. Don’t lecture the world on free speech.
Or moral superiority or much of anything else at this point! As reality based Americans, we just need to let that all go. It was always a sketchy proposition and has gotten orders of magnitude less believable in the current era.
I strongly believe October 18th will be a make or break moment. You either show up by the millions everywhere, or you won't have a functioning democracy by years end.
I am Brazilian, but I was a high school exchange student in the US, I have very good friends in the US (US-born and immigrants), and I always looked up to the US as the oldest democracy, flawed but evolving. I've visited the US every year for decades, now I don't dare go near a CBP officer browsing funny memes on my social networks.
I grew up in a dictatorship, mass non-violent popular protests accelerated its downfall. We now have a democracy in Brazil, but it's fragile. The US was always a model and an inspiration. Let's see the next No Kings Day.
I was raised in S. America (Chile & Peru). We moved back to the states when things started getting too hairy for my dad’s Large Corporate Employer to overlook. I’ve never had the rosy eyed nostalgia for the olden days here because we weren’t here. It’s always seemed really performative to me and if family things hadn’t gotten in the way, I wouldn’t be here now. We shall see, but I lack confidence in my fellow Americans.
You all are doing a much better job at democracy than we are at this moment. We’ll see how the No Kings protests go. I’m not sure we will rise to any occasion much less this one.
I understand why a lot of those comedians did that show, especially the ones that are more borderline or the ones that really sold out a long time ago. But Burr is one that surprised me. He used to do a bit on Beyonce performing for Gaddafi's kid and how it was putting on blinders for a payday. Way to stick the landing on that bit years later, Bill.
I don't know why people are surprised that Bill Burr showed up. He doesn't even try to hide his misogyny, so I doubt he would be bothered by the oppression of women in Saudi Arabia, and the murder of journalists, well, the money's really good. I always thought his moral posturing was just that; performative. No substance there, or as someone once said a long time ago, no there there.
Somewhere along the line cynicism became a substitute for intelligence or experience and then Norm at the end of the Bar at Cheer's was just as valid as an "establishment" "expert" with 40 years of dedicated learning and experience on a subject. Feel free to jump in and take over the conversation on any subject you want...military affairs, microbiology, the sky's the limit
I went for the fluffy piece. I wasn't allowed to watch MTV when I was younger and when I moved out, didn't have a tv. 40+ years later I still don't. Regardless I enjoyed learning about the "NKOTB roll" even though I was out of the suggested age range!
I never minded Bill Burr, he was funny in his crazy edgy way.
But now he's playing stupid, or is actually stupid. Either way he's now a dead man in our household and, I hope others. Signpost this bastard Saudi-sucker.
Wow, cultural relativism combined with lazy, snide cynicism are even more unattractive and off-putting when they're rolled up into an editorial journalistic piece by uber educated writers than when issued in a few words with a picture, in a meme from some site like "Asteroid 2028"
I find myself asking everyday why I paid for a subscription.
RE: Jungleland - an amazing composition and recorded performance. And live... it's transcendent. Clarence's sax solo against the instrumental backdrop is sublime. Roy played both the piano and the organ on the record, but IMO it's his piano part over the outro - he has real classical chops - that is absolutely stunning. So thanks for sharing your passion for this piece.
I actually checked the liner notes while writing that piece; Danny Frederici is not credited as the organist on the song (only Bittan on pianos). More confirmation here, kinda, though I didn't track down the book cited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungleland#Personnel
Oh, I get it, no worries. Bittan, interestingly, has a couple of organ credits on the album, though is only specifically cited for piano on this track.
I don’t see how an American comedian understands enough about Saudi culture can be truly funny. Maybe if he has a Saudi man writing his material. Big bucks could be a big risk if something in the routine offends unintentionally and costs him his head.
Nobody, but nobody, in Saudi Arabia was going to arrest Famous American Comedian and cut off his head. Bill Burr slings exaggerated bullshit for a living. It's literally his schtick. He would have been hustled out of the venue and thrown out of the country were he should have gone in the first place.
Maybe I misspoke. I just can’t fathom an American comedian in front of a Saudi audience. If I had seen his performance, I may have been howling in laughter. Sometimes I need to understand what I don’t understand and accept that I don’t really know of what I speak.
Apparently, comedian Jessica Kirson expressed "regret' at her decision and donated part of her earnings to an "unnamed human rights org."
Forget the fact that she's not only Jewish, but a lesbian, performing for a country that murders people who practice homosexual activity...
Democracy and Human Rights? So 20th Century-- Dictatorships are in, don'tchaknow? All about those Benjamins, baby!
Sonny, an awesome piece of writing on the comedians. Chef’s kiss!
Dave Chapelle, Bill Maher, Bill Burr, Louis CK, et al are talented.
But many of these comedians have lost the plot that made their humor funny.
All of these comics succeed in voicing the taboo doubts that bang around inside our skulls. The tensions within those taboo doubts can be funny and reverberate with audiences. However, allowing the taboo part to overwhelm a general ethic of caring for the most oppressed and exploited members of our society -- because they think the market is shifting, because they see a chance to profit, because they are self-absorbed and resentful of criticism -- is a grave error of both political and artistic judgement. Resentment isn't funny without some ironic counterpoint.
Burr and CK seem to remember that counterpoint, and its irony.
Chapelle and Maher have mostly become tedious scolds.
Chapelle's claims are the most ironic and self-absorbed, broadcasting complaints that he's a victim of woke cancel culture from his massively networked Netflix comedy special.
Maher has revealed that he's mostly a 1956-born thin-skinned Boomer who is unwilling to consider the responsibility that comes with controlling a major media platform might be in tension with the notion that comedy is an artform beyond rapproche. He gaslights his audience by peppering his scolding lectures with one-liners, which gives him the plausible denial that "its just comedy." But a stand-up in a club is actually vulnerable. They can be booed of stage. Maher wants to wrap himself in that image all the while having complete control of the conversation, the guests, the set, and the editing machine. Yes that's practical, but its not a position of vulnerability, its a position of power.
I have to say I'm very disappointed, and especially with Bill Burr. I'm into comedy, like REALLY into comedy. I still have George Carlin and Cheech & Chong on Vinyl from the fucking 70's when that shit was new! George Carlin 🖤 still my all time favorite. Only got to see him perform once, at the tail end sadly. He was gone a few short months later.
But Bill Burr was right there! Almost tied with George! I went WAY out of my way not only to secure tickets to the Fenway kickoff of his last tour as a birthday gift to a friend, I made sure my brothers and me got front row seats when he came to their area and flew half way across the country just to go to that show with my brothers.
Now, did Bill say some fucked up shit about trans people? Yeah, sure, but I can take a joke and my last name's not Trump (yeah, I did that, that just happened) so I'm not gonna say fuck that guy for making a joke that was objectively funny... it's his fucking job and edgy is his brand. Just like George. Also real talk, that first show at Fenway, I swear I was laughing so hard I thought I might pass out from lack of oxygen.
Then I hear Bill talking about "Yeah, it's cool, there's a MacDonalds, next to a Starbucks, next to a KFC, next to a Dunks or some shit about Saudi and I'm like starting to think... this motherfucker, he's been bought and sold the fuck out!
The heir apparent to George Carlin, sold his soul, compromised his principals as an "I'm gonna say it if it's funny" no matter what the cost. Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and Richard Pryor all got arrested for jokes they told and Bull fucking Burr goes to fucking Riyadh and censors himself... for fucking money.
This is what I have to say to Bill Burr
You already live the life. You just went on a sell out stadium tour. You're learning how to fly around in helicopters because, what? Why not? You didn't need their money... you cold have told them to pound the sand right outside the edge of their palaces. Instead, you went the LIV Golf route. Sold out like every cocksucker that cheapens the game by making it into some superstar fucking sporting event when really, it's a kinda nerdy obsession that only the people who actually play golf give a single shit about.
So congrats Bill. You lost your biggest fan. Not only will I not watch you perform new materiel, and definitely won't watch any of that Riyadh shit. I'll walk out of any room I hear your voice in. 🖕🏻
The Sunny Bunch view: "You gotta make ur nut."
I’m kinda with him on this. You get asked and offered and it’s worth it to you? Take the $ and go about your business. HOWEVER, you had better be willing to own your shit. All of it with no BS justifications on the backend. They appear to have skipped that bit.
Like Clive from South Park, everyone’s gotta make their nut :) totally agree - the concept of comedy fest in SA isn’t bad. Lord knows they cld benefit from looser speech norms. The kowtowing was unseemly tho
Actually, it is bad. That was the point of the South Park episode.
I think the alternative of isolation is worse. It’s better to have these comedians there to loosen up speech and culture
Well, except that no one but the limited few who are in with the regime and already travel out of the country went to this show. This wasn’t bringing truth and free speech to the masses.
Ah bummer. Shoulda realized that was the case. Well… maybe it’s good elite Saudis hear different perspectives at least? I’m grasping at straws lol
“America should zealously defend its position as the last real bastion of free speech in the world.” There it goes again, the very American self delusion of exceptionalism. I’ve spent many hours hanging out with people of many “Western” societies, but self-censorship among Americans is much stronger. For example, looking at all the well considered content of The Bulwark you’d never think that Israel has killed more Palestinians in Gaza than Ukrainian civilians have been killed by Russia. Israel’s brutality has full material and political support of the US government, but somehow that is rarely mentioned in these pages. Dozens of women and children dead every day in Gaza are met with silence here and in most US media. Don’t lecture the world on free speech.
Or moral superiority or much of anything else at this point! As reality based Americans, we just need to let that all go. It was always a sketchy proposition and has gotten orders of magnitude less believable in the current era.
I strongly believe October 18th will be a make or break moment. You either show up by the millions everywhere, or you won't have a functioning democracy by years end.
I am Brazilian, but I was a high school exchange student in the US, I have very good friends in the US (US-born and immigrants), and I always looked up to the US as the oldest democracy, flawed but evolving. I've visited the US every year for decades, now I don't dare go near a CBP officer browsing funny memes on my social networks.
I grew up in a dictatorship, mass non-violent popular protests accelerated its downfall. We now have a democracy in Brazil, but it's fragile. The US was always a model and an inspiration. Let's see the next No Kings Day.
I was raised in S. America (Chile & Peru). We moved back to the states when things started getting too hairy for my dad’s Large Corporate Employer to overlook. I’ve never had the rosy eyed nostalgia for the olden days here because we weren’t here. It’s always seemed really performative to me and if family things hadn’t gotten in the way, I wouldn’t be here now. We shall see, but I lack confidence in my fellow Americans.
You all are doing a much better job at democracy than we are at this moment. We’ll see how the No Kings protests go. I’m not sure we will rise to any occasion much less this one.
I humbly answered your reply, posted below. Maybe it’s on YouTube, a performance, that is. I need people to keep me honest.
I understand why a lot of those comedians did that show, especially the ones that are more borderline or the ones that really sold out a long time ago. But Burr is one that surprised me. He used to do a bit on Beyonce performing for Gaddafi's kid and how it was putting on blinders for a payday. Way to stick the landing on that bit years later, Bill.
I don't know why people are surprised that Bill Burr showed up. He doesn't even try to hide his misogyny, so I doubt he would be bothered by the oppression of women in Saudi Arabia, and the murder of journalists, well, the money's really good. I always thought his moral posturing was just that; performative. No substance there, or as someone once said a long time ago, no there there.
Somewhere along the line cynicism became a substitute for intelligence or experience and then Norm at the end of the Bar at Cheer's was just as valid as an "establishment" "expert" with 40 years of dedicated learning and experience on a subject. Feel free to jump in and take over the conversation on any subject you want...military affairs, microbiology, the sky's the limit
This is the best ! I love Chapelle and most of the acts but if they say it is anything more than a money grab we all know they are full of shit.
But he'll on cover to the Saudis...what do you think the Russians and Chinese(not to mention Iran,et al...)will do with this ??
Geez if this isn't biting the hand that feeds u,I don't know what is !
Anyone think ANY of these folks would be alive today if they had originally tried their stuff in Rihyad??
I went for the fluffy piece. I wasn't allowed to watch MTV when I was younger and when I moved out, didn't have a tv. 40+ years later I still don't. Regardless I enjoyed learning about the "NKOTB roll" even though I was out of the suggested age range!
I never minded Bill Burr, he was funny in his crazy edgy way.
But now he's playing stupid, or is actually stupid. Either way he's now a dead man in our household and, I hope others. Signpost this bastard Saudi-sucker.
Wow, cultural relativism combined with lazy, snide cynicism are even more unattractive and off-putting when they're rolled up into an editorial journalistic piece by uber educated writers than when issued in a few words with a picture, in a meme from some site like "Asteroid 2028"
I find myself asking everyday why I paid for a subscription.
Obvious reply....
RE: Jungleland - an amazing composition and recorded performance. And live... it's transcendent. Clarence's sax solo against the instrumental backdrop is sublime. Roy played both the piano and the organ on the record, but IMO it's his piano part over the outro - he has real classical chops - that is absolutely stunning. So thanks for sharing your passion for this piece.
Worth mentioning that Danny Frederici played organ on Jungleland. Roy Bittan played piano.
Federici, not Frederici.
I actually checked the liner notes while writing that piece; Danny Frederici is not credited as the organist on the song (only Bittan on pianos). More confirmation here, kinda, though I didn't track down the book cited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungleland#Personnel
(If I'm wrong, apologies to Danny Frederici.)
I must confess that I commented based only on my recollection that Federici was customarily the organist, Bittan the pianist in the E Street band.
Oh, I get it, no worries. Bittan, interestingly, has a couple of organ credits on the album, though is only specifically cited for piano on this track.
I don’t see how an American comedian understands enough about Saudi culture can be truly funny. Maybe if he has a Saudi man writing his material. Big bucks could be a big risk if something in the routine offends unintentionally and costs him his head.
Nobody, but nobody, in Saudi Arabia was going to arrest Famous American Comedian and cut off his head. Bill Burr slings exaggerated bullshit for a living. It's literally his schtick. He would have been hustled out of the venue and thrown out of the country were he should have gone in the first place.
Maybe I misspoke. I just can’t fathom an American comedian in front of a Saudi audience. If I had seen his performance, I may have been howling in laughter. Sometimes I need to understand what I don’t understand and accept that I don’t really know of what I speak.
You didn’t