Well, it all gets complicated, doesn't it? They have the agency to join a cult and then give up their agency to follow all that the cult leader tells them. Is that using one's agency or not?
Did you see Jimmy Kimmel's interview with Cassidy Hutchinson, where she describes how she got sucked in to Maga world. She says it happened at a Trump rally, when she looked around and thought these were her people.
Yes, I saw her interview with Lawrence O'Donnell, and she mentioned that same experience. If only more people who succumb to cult behavior could "wake up" with the same self-awareness as Cassidy Hutchinson.
Too true. And it makes life more difficult (and more dangerous) for the rest of us.
I should have clarified that my last question "Is that using one's agency or not?" is rhetorical. It's not the proximate cause that comes into play, but the root cause.
Thus, the decision to join a cult in the first place (for example, the Manson cult) makes one guilty of any crime committed under the cult leader's direction.
They have agency in the ability to know right from wrong, and reject the vicious and hateful. Groupthink makes this harder. ItтАЩs like the members of the so-called тАЬlaw and order partyтАЭ finding themselves in jail for beating on a policeman with a flagpole and trashing the Unites States Capitol. They can hardly believe, and are mortified, that they actually did that.
I would argue that groupthink is a choice. I'm not a psychologist and thus not an expert on stuff like this, but I'm aware of some research of people like this. Situations like groupthink are comfortable and self-reinforcing, and the decision not to exit from a situation like that is really a decision to avoid psychological discomfort. People don't like being excommunicated from their social circles, so they stay bound to the "group".
Groupthink is the path of least effort, it also avoids questions of ethics/morality. It keeps things simple, and keeps you WITH the group.
It's dangerous out there, don't go alone.
Groupthink is how you get a bunch of German policemen (nice enough guys if you are having a beer with them in the bar) going through the Polish countryside, rounding up Jews, shooting them and burying them in mass graves.
Maybe, but this implies they have no agency.
Well, it all gets complicated, doesn't it? They have the agency to join a cult and then give up their agency to follow all that the cult leader tells them. Is that using one's agency or not?
Did you see Jimmy Kimmel's interview with Cassidy Hutchinson, where she describes how she got sucked in to Maga world. She says it happened at a Trump rally, when she looked around and thought these were her people.
Yes, I saw her interview with Lawrence O'Donnell, and she mentioned that same experience. If only more people who succumb to cult behavior could "wake up" with the same self-awareness as Cassidy Hutchinson.
Yes, if only to give it up... and the potential for agency is still there, not exercising it is also a choice.
And thatтАЩs the last decision they have to make. Makes life simpler.
Too true. And it makes life more difficult (and more dangerous) for the rest of us.
I should have clarified that my last question "Is that using one's agency or not?" is rhetorical. It's not the proximate cause that comes into play, but the root cause.
Thus, the decision to join a cult in the first place (for example, the Manson cult) makes one guilty of any crime committed under the cult leader's direction.
Yes, It's like RICO
Yes, good one!
They have agency in the ability to know right from wrong, and reject the vicious and hateful. Groupthink makes this harder. ItтАЩs like the members of the so-called тАЬlaw and order partyтАЭ finding themselves in jail for beating on a policeman with a flagpole and trashing the Unites States Capitol. They can hardly believe, and are mortified, that they actually did that.
"You shall not follow a crowd in doing evil,..." - Exodus 23:2a
I would argue that groupthink is a choice. I'm not a psychologist and thus not an expert on stuff like this, but I'm aware of some research of people like this. Situations like groupthink are comfortable and self-reinforcing, and the decision not to exit from a situation like that is really a decision to avoid psychological discomfort. People don't like being excommunicated from their social circles, so they stay bound to the "group".
Groupthink is the path of least effort, it also avoids questions of ethics/morality. It keeps things simple, and keeps you WITH the group.
It's dangerous out there, don't go alone.
Groupthink is how you get a bunch of German policemen (nice enough guys if you are having a beer with them in the bar) going through the Polish countryside, rounding up Jews, shooting them and burying them in mass graves.
Which is a thing that happened.