That last tweet typifies my problem with "conservatives". They absolutely cannot give up worrying about what other people do for fun. I am not libertarian, but I am fairly libertarian in this regard: If someone enjoys doing something that causes no direct or indirect harm to someone else, I don't care if they do it. I hate the smell of m…
That last tweet typifies my problem with "conservatives". They absolutely cannot give up worrying about what other people do for fun. I am not libertarian, but I am fairly libertarian in this regard: If someone enjoys doing something that causes no direct or indirect harm to someone else, I don't care if they do it. I hate the smell of marijuana and worry about my daughter being exposed to the smoke from it. However, I am fine with people smoking it as long as they are doing it without driving or causing some kind of public nuisance.
There is a gay couple that lives next door to us. Do I think about what they do in there in the dark? NO! I never think about them unless I pass them in the hallway.
Do I care what anyone is reading in their home? NO!
The modern day equivalent would be Fred Amistad doing drag on SNL or Portlandia. If you haven't seen the Feminist Book Store skits from Portlandia, they are hilarious.
I seem to remember a comedy troupe of men known as Monty Python frequently dressing as women and playing female parts. They are pretty obscure though, I doubt if anyone has heard of them ;-)
My adult daughter has a unique take on drag: she thinks it is similar to “black face”, but applied to women. Is it “funny” because women are considered innately ridiculous?
Still thinking this over . . . (She’s a very free thinker, and doesn’t hew to any defined ideology.)
hmmmm, your daughter's take on this has made me ponder a bit.
There have been drag queens for decades in New Orleans, in the French Quarter. The shows drew everybody. My parents took me to a famous nightclub one night, the My O My Club. I was maybe 13. I think this was well before trans surgeries or medical treatments related to sexual identity. These were men who identified as women, loved to dress up, had some talent as singers/performers. It wasn't gay men making fun of women. I don't think it was meant, or taken, to demean either gender.
I've had very similar thoughts about drag. But I've also heard drag queens very passionately defend their art. It's a tricky idea to me. Drag queens in their performance so often embody (or intend to) women's lives with empathy and respect. Yet I ask why we need men dressing as women to do so. Perhaps the 'turning the tables' aspect captures people's imaginations and attention more.
The aforementioned obscure Monty Python group did that stoning scene in Life of Brian. Men and women (I'm pretty sure) playing women dressed as men. Of course the fact that there aren't any men at the stoning coupled with how bloodthirsty they are doesn't reflect the best on women in that particular portrayal.
A person could get twisted in knots over that scene. I'm just going to persist in thinking it is absolutely hilarious though.
Geraldine? Wasn't that the character's name? Been so long.
Robin Williams did Mrs Doubtfire.
Gender swaps and mistaken gender has been a staple of drama/comedy for a LONG time. Shakespeare did it (which was interesting because you had a boy playing a girl/woman who was pretending to be a boy--because women actresses were not a thing at that time).
I think there were a few classical tales (Greek/Roman) that involved that type of thing.
Hoffman lost the Oscar to F. Murray Abraham for his title role in "Gandhi". Not to take away from Abraham, but I thought Hoffman got robbed - and still do.
Ditto Tootsie and all the others noted above. Never realized a bunch of guys in drag represented such a moral hazard and threat to the American way of life!
Exactly... my answer to his question is yes, because--to be brutally frank--it isn't your fucking business.
Too many people are waaaay too worried about what other people are doing. It always tended to be like that but social media has brought it to an all-time high.
We speak kindly to each other in the hall. They seem very nice.
That said, it was no picnic for me to get married. The federal government had an oversized role including four denied visa applications. There was no quarter given for a Peace Corps volunteer who wants to marry a local. Once she was here, we could get married. That was five years after I finished Peace Corps. They still doubted the veracity of the marriage a month before my daughter was born.
But I do understand that I at least had a path no matter how hard my government tried to stop me.
That last tweet typifies my problem with "conservatives". They absolutely cannot give up worrying about what other people do for fun. I am not libertarian, but I am fairly libertarian in this regard: If someone enjoys doing something that causes no direct or indirect harm to someone else, I don't care if they do it. I hate the smell of marijuana and worry about my daughter being exposed to the smoke from it. However, I am fine with people smoking it as long as they are doing it without driving or causing some kind of public nuisance.
There is a gay couple that lives next door to us. Do I think about what they do in there in the dark? NO! I never think about them unless I pass them in the hallway.
Do I care what anyone is reading in their home? NO!
Quit.worrying.about.what.other.people.do. (That's not a link. Substack just thinks that it is.)
Short memory time- Milton Berle, a big star in the 50s. on LIVE TV, on NETWORK TV, and in movies, appeared in drag. Nobody said anything.
The modern day equivalent would be Fred Amistad doing drag on SNL or Portlandia. If you haven't seen the Feminist Book Store skits from Portlandia, they are hilarious.
I seem to remember a comedy troupe of men known as Monty Python frequently dressing as women and playing female parts. They are pretty obscure though, I doubt if anyone has heard of them ;-)
ROFLMAO
My adult daughter has a unique take on drag: she thinks it is similar to “black face”, but applied to women. Is it “funny” because women are considered innately ridiculous?
Still thinking this over . . . (She’s a very free thinker, and doesn’t hew to any defined ideology.)
hmmmm, your daughter's take on this has made me ponder a bit.
There have been drag queens for decades in New Orleans, in the French Quarter. The shows drew everybody. My parents took me to a famous nightclub one night, the My O My Club. I was maybe 13. I think this was well before trans surgeries or medical treatments related to sexual identity. These were men who identified as women, loved to dress up, had some talent as singers/performers. It wasn't gay men making fun of women. I don't think it was meant, or taken, to demean either gender.
I've had very similar thoughts about drag. But I've also heard drag queens very passionately defend their art. It's a tricky idea to me. Drag queens in their performance so often embody (or intend to) women's lives with empathy and respect. Yet I ask why we need men dressing as women to do so. Perhaps the 'turning the tables' aspect captures people's imaginations and attention more.
Good on her.
Now THAT is interesting.
I think you have to look at it on a case by case basis. I would agree that there are probably treatments out there that fall to that level.
I think it is a reasonable surface reading of a lot of the treatments of the issue, even if that was NOT the intent.
But I also think that there are treatments that are actual examinations of gender roles or gender perceptions or that can be easily turned that way.
Some of it could be both.
The aforementioned obscure Monty Python group did that stoning scene in Life of Brian. Men and women (I'm pretty sure) playing women dressed as men. Of course the fact that there aren't any men at the stoning coupled with how bloodthirsty they are doesn't reflect the best on women in that particular portrayal.
A person could get twisted in knots over that scene. I'm just going to persist in thinking it is absolutely hilarious though.
Ditto. Sometimes funny is simply that, and nothing more.
And many laughed their asses off!!
I remember that... now. I had forgotten.
Flip Wilson did it on his TV show as well.
Geraldine? Wasn't that the character's name? Been so long.
Robin Williams did Mrs Doubtfire.
Gender swaps and mistaken gender has been a staple of drama/comedy for a LONG time. Shakespeare did it (which was interesting because you had a boy playing a girl/woman who was pretending to be a boy--because women actresses were not a thing at that time).
I think there were a few classical tales (Greek/Roman) that involved that type of thing.
Forgot Tootsie! Didn't Dustin Hoffman win an Oscar?
Ooops! Yes, I believe so... after checking, no. He was nominated. Did win a BAFTA for the role, though.
Hoffman lost the Oscar to F. Murray Abraham for his title role in "Gandhi". Not to take away from Abraham, but I thought Hoffman got robbed - and still do.
Abraham won for Amadeus in '84. :-)
You are correct. Ben Kingsley won for Gandhi. Damn, I can never seem to keep those two straight!
Also forgot Victor, Victoria.
Some Like It Hot. On most lists of the 100 best movies of all time.
Just remembered "The Birdcage" with Robin Williams and Nathan Lane.
IOW, there is a ton of this out there. Who'da thunk it ;)
Ditto Tootsie and all the others noted above. Never realized a bunch of guys in drag represented such a moral hazard and threat to the American way of life!
First we had Doubtfire and Tootsie. Now we're clinging by our fingernails to democracy. Pretty straight* path.
* ;)
Go back much further. First we had Milton Berle. :-)
Always liked Uncle Miltie. Especially in drag. Ooops. Did I say that out loud??
Well, straight *is* the only path that's acceptable in certain quarters, isn't it??
Exactly... my answer to his question is yes, because--to be brutally frank--it isn't your fucking business.
Too many people are waaaay too worried about what other people are doing. It always tended to be like that but social media has brought it to an all-time high.
We speak kindly to each other in the hall. They seem very nice.
That said, it was no picnic for me to get married. The federal government had an oversized role including four denied visa applications. There was no quarter given for a Peace Corps volunteer who wants to marry a local. Once she was here, we could get married. That was five years after I finished Peace Corps. They still doubted the veracity of the marriage a month before my daughter was born.
But I do understand that I at least had a path no matter how hard my government tried to stop me.