I don't personally believe that he's some kind of direct Russian asset. Why? Because even the Russians aren't so direct as that. What I believe is that he admires Putin for the same reasons he admires Xi and Kim Jong Un; he aspires to that autocratic worldview and would love to be them. In some ways, this works against how we like to thi…
I don't personally believe that he's some kind of direct Russian asset. Why? Because even the Russians aren't so direct as that. What I believe is that he admires Putin for the same reasons he admires Xi and Kim Jong Un; he aspires to that autocratic worldview and would love to be them. In some ways, this works against how we like to think; it's almost cartoonish after all. But really, he's exactly what he looks like.
He's a greedy narcissistic man who looks back in history and would love to be an actual king for all the most obvious reasons you can think of. The guy made his penthouse to look like Versailles or something. He's exactly as gaudy and greedy as any Czar. He's just never had that power for real, and he wishes he could.
The very traits we hate in someone like Putin; someone who cares not one bit about anyone or anything else and who is willing to kill to take what he needs; is exactly what Trump loves. I mean, this is a guy who stole his fortune from his father as he was dying and refused to meet with his fixer as he was dying because he was no longer useful.
He's not compromises and there's no conspiracy. He's just a small minded self focused evil man.
All correct, but there is also the point that intelligence officers tear their hair out over recruits who are unstable and frankly not overly subtle or bright -- like Trump. they can easily blow up.
There's a spectrum of what an asset is. Some are direct recruits run by case officers. Some are just accomplices who think they're doing occasional odd transactions in their own interest. Some are acquiescent and willing fellow travellers for any or all of a host of reasons, some reasons ideological, but most due to character and personality problems and delusions which the intelligence service finds and manipulates.
I doubt if Trump showed up at the Russian embassy one day and offered to pull the US out of NATO in exchange for millions of dollars of laundered money. I presume that over the years he has had many contacts and transactions in which he imagined himself "doing business" while they were roping him in. Each and every one of the points you list constitutes one of the hooks and rings in his nose by which his handlers control him.
You don't have to be a card-carrying Maxwell Smart with a phone shoe to be an intelligence asset. An intelligence asset is anyone an intelligence agency dedicates files and case officers to, works with and on, and seeks results from. For an asset like Trump, they probably have enough Trump dedicated FSB case officers to staff an entire football league.
I would add that in addition to case officers, there is Putin's network of oligarchs, all of whom rely on Putin's favor to do business. These are the guys who over the years purchased more than 1300 properties developed by the Trump organization; who got Trump involved in the Miss Universe pageant; who were among the first to suggest that Trump should have a go at POTUS.
Its easy to imagine how Putin would take a run at Trump to get him to want to leave NATO. He'd just point out how unfair it is that the US carries the greatest financial burden and how Obama was too weak willed to walk away from NATO. Then Putin gets his cyber assets to post that same idea all over right wing social media and eventually someone at Fox picks it up as a talking point for attacking Obama and other democratic leaders. Once Trump sees it being talked about by his base, he's hooked.
Rupert Murdoch simply wants to do whatever it takes to elect Republicans. I don’t think he is in Putins pocket. Murdoch knows that Republicans can’t win without support from Trumps base. Until it is proven that Trump is toxic to Republican fortunes as a party, Murdoch won’t change. Having said that - he is a soulless husk for prioritizing party and profit over democracy and country.
I agree with your last sentence, but not the one before it. Everything you said about Trump is true. But the Soviets/Russians are that direct in many cases. Americans have sold out for Soviet money lots of times. Trump loves money, loves to be on top (in his brain), loves to be in charge, etc. - which requires gobs of money. Yeah, Putin fed Trump's image of himself, but as As Eric Trump admitted years ago, "We get all the money we need from Russia."
The one thing I think you may be missing is that what makes sense to us logically from the outside does not make sense to him logically, and vice versa. What I mean is, we see sucking up to dictators and the like for money to be a sign of weakness. We think that shows that he's owned by them.
But I doubt this is how trump thinks. In fact, I think it's the opposite. Think of Putin not as Trump's handler but like a bank. Trump goes to him, says all these nice words, gets all this money. Trump is thinking 'what a sucker. I got him to give me all this stuff.' Of course, he's never planning on paying it back, just like all those creditors he stiffed. Words, you see, are cheap. He'll say anything if it means getting something, because what Trump cares about are physical things. Once he has them, he'll do anything to keep them.
Beyond that, there's another reason to suck up to people like Putin; people who are seen as beleaguered from the outside make good marks. Trump is a conman, that's why he preys on the right wing grievance machine. But think of it like this: he sees Putin, Xi, ect as international pariahs. What does that mean? It means they'll owe him for sticking up for them, leveraging the US' clout for his own personal gain. But as we've seen with everyone who's ever worked with him, at some point he'll decide to get rid of you.
It's also why when dealing with people he can't get to owe him in this manner he turns to threats, or tries to remove them entirely, like leaving NATO. They won't agree to owe him, so they're not a benefit to him, they're a liability. No one exists beyond him, no interests exists beyond his own. If he can't get them to give him something, he'll get rid of it and hopefully leave someone else with the bag. That's always been his modus operandi.
Too many people apply some kind of personal viewpoint upon him. They think he's a patsy or a fool or a psychopath. He's none of those. To use a lord of the rings reference, he's not Saruman. He's not Sauron. He's Wormtongue. He's the guy who will do anything if it means getting ahead and getting something for himself. That's partially why lots of people struggle to understand him; we like to assume he must have some greater motive, or that someone else does. He doesn't.
He's just greedy and immoral, and he's open about it. He's not book smart, but he's cunning enough to know how to make people owe him, and then how to leverage that for his own gain, not caring about who else gets hurt in the process.
This is a really clear take and seems pretty accurate but I thought that was kind of the definition of psychopath. I think it's likely the definition fits both Trump and Putin. These are not what we usually call rational actors, though each of them used to be I think.
I think what we see as irrational, is just Putin and Trump using the bully's playbook because that playbook has always worked in the past and they've never been held accountable. What's happening to Putin right now is the first time he's ever faced existentially negative consequences for his actions. Watching the whole world coming down on Putin's head, must have Trump terrified.
All true, and all consistent with being a controlled asset of the FSB living a delusion that when doing his masters' bidding he is a respected equal making canny deals.
Except he OWES Putin how many billions? Putin can see right through someone like Trump. Don't think Trump's figured it out yet. BTW, it's already a given that IF Trump gets power, he's turning on NATO and the rest of Europe, not mention everyone else. Unless McConnell and other Rs rediscover their balls.
Whoever primaries Trump in 2024 (Cheney? Kinzinger?) must rub the Putin fiasco in his face repeatedly. The idea that Trump wants to pull us out of NATO should be used by both Democrats and sane Republicans to just hammer Trump.
I agree. I think he will turn on the American People in just as murderous a fashion, as he sees us all as having betrayed him by not going along with the Big Lie and keeping him in power in 2020. This guy doesn't even like his own children; everything is an asset or a liability to him. Given the opportunity, his revenge will know no bounds! He will finish off the federal govt and the GOP as well as NATO etc. He will be unstoppable in his bloodlust. Like Putin. They are like peas in a pod at this point and both are dangerous to all life on earth. It is a bit gobsmacking to see the similarities between them in their madness.
The Trump Org ties to Russian money has me wondering how the ongoing collapse of the Russian economy the last few days is affecting them. I have seen no reporting or opinion pieces about this yet.
If only someone in the media would look into this. But, even if the connection was completely uncovered, his supporters would praise Russia for helping Trump. Funny how the Tea Party patriots turned so quickly into anti-American detractors
This is a great question. If the Treasury department goes after Yachts and Condos, one wonders how many units of Trump properties will end up being owned by the US Government.
Most of that money is off the books money coming from the oligarchs, turning what are essentially largely worthless rubles into physical assets and American dollars.
It will take some time for that to have an effect on the Trump Organization (unless people start calling in their loans because of the whole untrustworthy financial statements thing from Mazars).
I don't personally believe that he's some kind of direct Russian asset. Why? Because even the Russians aren't so direct as that. What I believe is that he admires Putin for the same reasons he admires Xi and Kim Jong Un; he aspires to that autocratic worldview and would love to be them. In some ways, this works against how we like to think; it's almost cartoonish after all. But really, he's exactly what he looks like.
He's a greedy narcissistic man who looks back in history and would love to be an actual king for all the most obvious reasons you can think of. The guy made his penthouse to look like Versailles or something. He's exactly as gaudy and greedy as any Czar. He's just never had that power for real, and he wishes he could.
The very traits we hate in someone like Putin; someone who cares not one bit about anyone or anything else and who is willing to kill to take what he needs; is exactly what Trump loves. I mean, this is a guy who stole his fortune from his father as he was dying and refused to meet with his fixer as he was dying because he was no longer useful.
He's not compromises and there's no conspiracy. He's just a small minded self focused evil man.
All correct, but there is also the point that intelligence officers tear their hair out over recruits who are unstable and frankly not overly subtle or bright -- like Trump. they can easily blow up.
There's a spectrum of what an asset is. Some are direct recruits run by case officers. Some are just accomplices who think they're doing occasional odd transactions in their own interest. Some are acquiescent and willing fellow travellers for any or all of a host of reasons, some reasons ideological, but most due to character and personality problems and delusions which the intelligence service finds and manipulates.
I doubt if Trump showed up at the Russian embassy one day and offered to pull the US out of NATO in exchange for millions of dollars of laundered money. I presume that over the years he has had many contacts and transactions in which he imagined himself "doing business" while they were roping him in. Each and every one of the points you list constitutes one of the hooks and rings in his nose by which his handlers control him.
You don't have to be a card-carrying Maxwell Smart with a phone shoe to be an intelligence asset. An intelligence asset is anyone an intelligence agency dedicates files and case officers to, works with and on, and seeks results from. For an asset like Trump, they probably have enough Trump dedicated FSB case officers to staff an entire football league.
I would add that in addition to case officers, there is Putin's network of oligarchs, all of whom rely on Putin's favor to do business. These are the guys who over the years purchased more than 1300 properties developed by the Trump organization; who got Trump involved in the Miss Universe pageant; who were among the first to suggest that Trump should have a go at POTUS.
Its easy to imagine how Putin would take a run at Trump to get him to want to leave NATO. He'd just point out how unfair it is that the US carries the greatest financial burden and how Obama was too weak willed to walk away from NATO. Then Putin gets his cyber assets to post that same idea all over right wing social media and eventually someone at Fox picks it up as a talking point for attacking Obama and other democratic leaders. Once Trump sees it being talked about by his base, he's hooked.
You laid it out perfectly. This has played out over and over, most people don't have the critical thinking skills to see the pattern.
I wonder what the connection, if any, is between the owner of Fox News and Putin.
Rupert Murdoch simply wants to do whatever it takes to elect Republicans. I don’t think he is in Putins pocket. Murdoch knows that Republicans can’t win without support from Trumps base. Until it is proven that Trump is toxic to Republican fortunes as a party, Murdoch won’t change. Having said that - he is a soulless husk for prioritizing party and profit over democracy and country.
Trump has been a de facto member of the Russian mob for decades--though low level and not Russian.
The Secessionist-In-Chief must have a rumbling in his loins with the updated "Godfather" out for its 50th anniversary.
I agree with your last sentence, but not the one before it. Everything you said about Trump is true. But the Soviets/Russians are that direct in many cases. Americans have sold out for Soviet money lots of times. Trump loves money, loves to be on top (in his brain), loves to be in charge, etc. - which requires gobs of money. Yeah, Putin fed Trump's image of himself, but as As Eric Trump admitted years ago, "We get all the money we need from Russia."
The one thing I think you may be missing is that what makes sense to us logically from the outside does not make sense to him logically, and vice versa. What I mean is, we see sucking up to dictators and the like for money to be a sign of weakness. We think that shows that he's owned by them.
But I doubt this is how trump thinks. In fact, I think it's the opposite. Think of Putin not as Trump's handler but like a bank. Trump goes to him, says all these nice words, gets all this money. Trump is thinking 'what a sucker. I got him to give me all this stuff.' Of course, he's never planning on paying it back, just like all those creditors he stiffed. Words, you see, are cheap. He'll say anything if it means getting something, because what Trump cares about are physical things. Once he has them, he'll do anything to keep them.
Beyond that, there's another reason to suck up to people like Putin; people who are seen as beleaguered from the outside make good marks. Trump is a conman, that's why he preys on the right wing grievance machine. But think of it like this: he sees Putin, Xi, ect as international pariahs. What does that mean? It means they'll owe him for sticking up for them, leveraging the US' clout for his own personal gain. But as we've seen with everyone who's ever worked with him, at some point he'll decide to get rid of you.
It's also why when dealing with people he can't get to owe him in this manner he turns to threats, or tries to remove them entirely, like leaving NATO. They won't agree to owe him, so they're not a benefit to him, they're a liability. No one exists beyond him, no interests exists beyond his own. If he can't get them to give him something, he'll get rid of it and hopefully leave someone else with the bag. That's always been his modus operandi.
Too many people apply some kind of personal viewpoint upon him. They think he's a patsy or a fool or a psychopath. He's none of those. To use a lord of the rings reference, he's not Saruman. He's not Sauron. He's Wormtongue. He's the guy who will do anything if it means getting ahead and getting something for himself. That's partially why lots of people struggle to understand him; we like to assume he must have some greater motive, or that someone else does. He doesn't.
He's just greedy and immoral, and he's open about it. He's not book smart, but he's cunning enough to know how to make people owe him, and then how to leverage that for his own gain, not caring about who else gets hurt in the process.
This is a really clear take and seems pretty accurate but I thought that was kind of the definition of psychopath. I think it's likely the definition fits both Trump and Putin. These are not what we usually call rational actors, though each of them used to be I think.
I think what we see as irrational, is just Putin and Trump using the bully's playbook because that playbook has always worked in the past and they've never been held accountable. What's happening to Putin right now is the first time he's ever faced existentially negative consequences for his actions. Watching the whole world coming down on Putin's head, must have Trump terrified.
Trump is now pretending he was against him from the beginning.
All true, and all consistent with being a controlled asset of the FSB living a delusion that when doing his masters' bidding he is a respected equal making canny deals.
Except he OWES Putin how many billions? Putin can see right through someone like Trump. Don't think Trump's figured it out yet. BTW, it's already a given that IF Trump gets power, he's turning on NATO and the rest of Europe, not mention everyone else. Unless McConnell and other Rs rediscover their balls.
Whoever primaries Trump in 2024 (Cheney? Kinzinger?) must rub the Putin fiasco in his face repeatedly. The idea that Trump wants to pull us out of NATO should be used by both Democrats and sane Republicans to just hammer Trump.
I agree. I think he will turn on the American People in just as murderous a fashion, as he sees us all as having betrayed him by not going along with the Big Lie and keeping him in power in 2020. This guy doesn't even like his own children; everything is an asset or a liability to him. Given the opportunity, his revenge will know no bounds! He will finish off the federal govt and the GOP as well as NATO etc. He will be unstoppable in his bloodlust. Like Putin. They are like peas in a pod at this point and both are dangerous to all life on earth. It is a bit gobsmacking to see the similarities between them in their madness.
The Trump Org ties to Russian money has me wondering how the ongoing collapse of the Russian economy the last few days is affecting them. I have seen no reporting or opinion pieces about this yet.
If only someone in the media would look into this. But, even if the connection was completely uncovered, his supporters would praise Russia for helping Trump. Funny how the Tea Party patriots turned so quickly into anti-American detractors
This is a great question. If the Treasury department goes after Yachts and Condos, one wonders how many units of Trump properties will end up being owned by the US Government.
Most of that money is off the books money coming from the oligarchs, turning what are essentially largely worthless rubles into physical assets and American dollars.
It will take some time for that to have an effect on the Trump Organization (unless people start calling in their loans because of the whole untrustworthy financial statements thing from Mazars).