Bill, over the decades I literally can never recall ever disagreeing with you on anything.
In this case, I'm struggling with the idea of punishing the soldiers, who apparently were fighting at night and under unspeakable duress.
Imagine if the media were criticizing the U.S. military after each little bombing during WW2. The U.S. carpet-bombed German cities killing tens of thousands of people per night, but it was necessary to defeat Hitler. Otherwise we would all be saluting Nazi leaders to this day.
An idea I have is that reporters who are allowed to report on the war must be required to actually be fighting in battle alongside the soldiers, to ensure that reporters are being realistic in their critiques of all the efforts to keep Israel from being wiped off the map.
I can think of many disagreements I’ve had with Mr. Kristol. They are exemplified by the way I felt watching his smug self regard on Sunday shows when the 2nd Iraq war (that he, Dick, Scooter and Donny Wrestles authored) was going well. I now admire his commitment to democracy, but his blaming the killing of aid workers on individual soldiers rather than on systemic problems with Israel’s prosecution of this war seems typical for him.
I'm late to the game, here, and there are likely others who commented on this yesterday, but...
"Trump nominated many excellent men and women to the judiciary. A confident conservative majority, grounded in originalism and textualism, now controls the Supreme Court."
I want to comment on Will Selber's discussion of the recent tragedy in Gaza as well as the ongoing tragedy that is that war. Thank you, Will for your insight as very few of us have the experience you have in combat, particularly in the type of war that is happening in Gaza. I have signed up for your blog and I am looking forward to more of your work.
Thanks for the always excellent newsletter. Just a quick observation. Will Selber is categorically stating that Israel's Defence Forces made a "disastrous mistake". Until we know the outcome of a full and complete independent investigation isn't it a little early to make such an assertion? Again, thanks for your great work.
If you don't think conservative judges have been legislating from the bench...you haven't been paying attention 🙄 Originalism and textualism is long for...doing what we want to do.
IDF killed seven aid workers with the World Kitchen. Also aid workers all over the Gaza Strip have been killed. This same action happens year after year somewhere on earth. But it keeps happening. The definition of Insanity.
I am overtired of these two states trying to wipe out each other. Yes, I know Israel and Palestine have their “reasons”, that in my opinion don’t stand for anything if both countries are destroyed. For established countries to be fighting for a piece of the pie, give it up. There isn’t any planetary reason two or more countries not to equally settle differences. Sit down talk, listen, observe, agree, keeping working until peace in your countries. For those monster leaders that think the world is theirs…let me say ‘No one gets out alive’. So stop the chest thumping!
Yea, wishful, nonsensical thinking, most assuredly. As optimist as I can be today.
I agree with you, but I don't think that talking will do it. They're going to have to be forced to it. And I don't mean "forced" in the figurative sense of "pressured". I mean quite literally "forced', in the sense of "not being offered another alternative or an opportunity to resist."
Israel is going to have to be forced to protect and provide for the civilians in Gaza while they finish eliminating Hamas.
When the fighting is over, Israel and the Palestinians are going to have to be forced to accept two states. Israel is going to have to be forced to evacuate Gaza and the West Bank -- all of it, contingent on the presence of Arab peacekeepers and Arab-financed rebuilding. The Palestinians will have be forced to accept Gaza and the West Bank as their state -- period. Sovereign but demilitarized. Any "Right of Return" will only apply to "returning" to the new Palestinian State.
I foresee the "two states living side by side in peace", at least for the rest of my life, as nothing like the Netherlands living side by side in peace with Belgium, but very much like East Germany and West Germany living side by side in peace at the height of the Cold War. There will probably be impenetrable barriers between them, as there were between East and West Germany. There will have to be an internationally guaranteed highway, rail corridor and air link between the West Bank and Gaza subject to Israeli oversight, as there was between West Germany and West Berlin, subject to East German oversight. It will certainly be suboptimal ... but given a fair chance, it will be better than anything either side has had for the last 76 years. And, maybe by the time my granddaughters are my age, they will have stopped hating and fearing each other enough to want to make it better.
He certainly was ahead of his peers. But it was the it was the Egyptian Islamists that Nasser had jailed and he had freed and thought he had won over who gunned him down. As I was writing this, I realized for the first time that Sadat's assassination at one level was a kind of foreshadowing of Yitzhak Rabin's, both killed by extremists that they hoped they were bringing around to their point of view.
Carter for all of his faults did just that with Israel and Egypt. Problem is it's in Iran's (and Russia's) perceived interests to keep the Middle East a giant killing machine.
Bill, re our pro-democracy coalition and our "efforts with different messages using different mechanisms can get to different groups of voters" - the only voters who matter are the swing voters in WI, MI & PA. By all accounts, Biden MUST win those states to win the EC, so we all must support those Dem state parties: https://wisdems.org/, https://michigandems.com/, and https://www.padems.com/.
Another organization to support is Focus for Democracy (https://www.focus4democracy.org/). They have identified other organizations who are targeting swing voters in the swing states with evidence-backed messages that are proven to work. They turned me on to Galvanize Action (https://www.galvanizeaction.org/) who I'm supporting. They craft appeals to moderate women in rural, small town, and suburban communities who want progress on key issues, AKA swing voters.
Andrew, you said Israel "is a key ally in a region where most everyone would rather see them (and America, for that matter) wiped off the map." They want us out of their back yard. If we did that, would they still want us wiped off the map?
One other note — the killed aid workers, yes, for sure, a tragedy. But where was the writer's empathy for more than 32,000 murdered Palestinians? How could anyone write about only the aid workers and somehow neglect the tens of thousands of Gazans killed, being killed, and who will be killed? "Every flashpoint like the WCK strike threatens to broaden the anti-war coalition beyond those with pro-Palestinian priors." Rarely have I read such blindness. The antiwar coalition has been massive for months.
Blindness?! WCK workers are neutral but working for Gazans. I read the author to be making a RELATIVE statement.."broaden" and not commenting on current size of antiwar coalition.
What a sadly distorted view of the Israel-Palestine war. Biden isn't butting heads with just the "progressives" who see "the Jewish state of Israel" as colonizer, etc. He's butting heads with every decent American who sees the continuous slaughter of Palestinians, mostly women and children. And all decent Americans smart enough to know that if war could settle Israel's problems with Gaza, its problems would have come to and end decades ago, many wars ago. The solution is two states but Israel's right-wing leaders simply will not countenance "decency." Now the U.S. is going down with an ally that spits in our face. We've lost what little credibility we had in the Arab world, and we'll pay for it for much longer than this war. Secretary of State George C. Marshall and Defense Secretary James Forrestal both saw this coming in 1948. Let the U.N. handle Palestine, they urged, STRONGLY. We should stay the hell out of that mess. But Truman screwed the United States but good.
I'm a "decent American", thank you, and I'm aware, as you don't seem to be, that those Palestinian civilians are being used as human shields by the terrorists who should be protecting them but are hiding behind them instead.
By all means, state your opinions, whether well or poorly based, but spare us your noisome moral posturing, and particularly the attempt to speak for "every decent American." You don't, and from that position, you can't.
Pray, good sir, if I may be so bold — I am in receipt of your kind letter of 4 April 2024. Just one more bit of noisome moral posturing.
Palestinian women and children murdered by Netanyahu and the IDF aren't responsible for the hideous actions of Hamas. They'd tell you that themselves if they could. But they can't. They're dead.
You left this out in your assessment: Hamas is not in favor of two states. Their mission is to destroy Israel. Also, Israel WAS in favor of 2 states from Oslo to the Netenyahu regime. What happened after Oslo? Suicide bombings by Hamas, among other violence. You left that out too.
A successful two-state solution means peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike. This, peace with Jews, is antithetical for Hamas. It voids their whole ideology and power basis. Israel abandoning the pursuit of peaceful coexistence as a national policy goal *in response to Hamas terrorism* is giving Hamas exactly what they want.
Of course Hamas opposes two states. That's why Netanyahu has always preferred that Hamas stick around. And the only proposals for a Palestine state have been laughably one-sided, in Israel's favor, of course. None has been a serious proposal. Hence the constant violence. Add up the body count sometime. See who's "ahead" in that.
There are several elements in the reporting of Aid workers being killed in Gaza that present serious differences of perceived truth as presented in most major US media and by President Biden in contrast to reports and the skepticism expressed in other credible western and middle east sources.
Many Canadians and Europeans have indicated possibility that Netanyahu administration specifically ordered attack on these vehicles as probably Hamas involved, in spite of IDF being assured of their Humanitarian bona fide. There is also great credulity about the supposed outrage from President Biden about the incident, particularly give no hesitancy of his what-so-ever in continuing weapons shipments to Israel under the cloud of charges at International Court of Justice (ICJ) of Israeli genocide against innocent Palestinians during this conflict.
For decades US politicians and government officials have constantly used term of "erring on the side of caution", yet in regard this specific aspect of humanitarian treatment and assistance for refugees in Gaza, there always seems to be "absolutes" accruing to Netanyahu decisions and actions, and Biden acceding to those Israeli positions.
I'm no progressive. I'm a former Republican turned left-of-center Democrat. I'm also a practicing Christian that grew up thinking Israel and its leadership could do no wrong. I'm well past that point. Biden needs to start holding Israel accountable, or he needs to cut off the funds. PERIOD.
Will Selber's characterization of the WCK tragedy (a group that I donate to) was a "disastrous mistake" is either naive or sanitized. The IDF struck the first vehicle. The wounded exited to the next vehicle. The IDF struck that vehicle. Those that could move then moved to the third vehicle where they finally all succumbed. This is the same well-trained and funded IDF that just hours earlier had carried out a precision strike in enemy territory (Syria).
My guess is that the unit that carried out the strikes knew full well it was the WCK aid workers. They apparently "suspected" a terrorist was with them. They also think starving civilians (including children) is okay in war, and they don't like the fact that WCK is feeding Gazans. The whole thing is sickening. I really had hoped The Bulwark would not succumb to the unquestioned support of Israel. We have leverage. They need to either stop committing war crimes, or we stop supporting their war. PERIOD. This was a very disappointing piece.
In the words of the esteemed and sorely-missed Charlie Sykes, Will Selber AYFKM with this sterile interpretation of events? Truly disappointed in The Bulwark’s sustained, deafening silence and unambiguously one-sided, conspicuously uncritical stance when the facts and blood-curdling horror on the ground couldn’t be more plain to see.
Thank you, Bill for your shout out to grassroots and for advocating that everyone do what they can to save our Democracy. As President Kennedy is famous for saying: "Every man can make a difference, and every man should try."
"A confident conservative majority, grounded in originalism and textualism, now controls the Supreme Court."
And at that line, I immediately discounted anything further the author has to say. If someone is STILL, at this point, clinging to the delusion that this Supreme Court is "originalist" or "textualist" in its judgments, that person is not connected enough to reality to continue listening to. I mean, seriously?
Bill, over the decades I literally can never recall ever disagreeing with you on anything.
In this case, I'm struggling with the idea of punishing the soldiers, who apparently were fighting at night and under unspeakable duress.
Imagine if the media were criticizing the U.S. military after each little bombing during WW2. The U.S. carpet-bombed German cities killing tens of thousands of people per night, but it was necessary to defeat Hitler. Otherwise we would all be saluting Nazi leaders to this day.
An idea I have is that reporters who are allowed to report on the war must be required to actually be fighting in battle alongside the soldiers, to ensure that reporters are being realistic in their critiques of all the efforts to keep Israel from being wiped off the map.
I can think of many disagreements I’ve had with Mr. Kristol. They are exemplified by the way I felt watching his smug self regard on Sunday shows when the 2nd Iraq war (that he, Dick, Scooter and Donny Wrestles authored) was going well. I now admire his commitment to democracy, but his blaming the killing of aid workers on individual soldiers rather than on systemic problems with Israel’s prosecution of this war seems typical for him.
I'm late to the game, here, and there are likely others who commented on this yesterday, but...
"Trump nominated many excellent men and women to the judiciary. A confident conservative majority, grounded in originalism and textualism, now controls the Supreme Court."
This is disingenuous at best.
I want to comment on Will Selber's discussion of the recent tragedy in Gaza as well as the ongoing tragedy that is that war. Thank you, Will for your insight as very few of us have the experience you have in combat, particularly in the type of war that is happening in Gaza. I have signed up for your blog and I am looking forward to more of your work.
I read Will's piece, "On Gaza," and I highly recommend folks go to his library and read that article (link: https://grumpycombatveteran.substack.com/p/on-gaza?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2. It is excellent and I learned a lot about what is happening in Gaza and why. I also recommend that you subscribe to his blog.
Thanks for the always excellent newsletter. Just a quick observation. Will Selber is categorically stating that Israel's Defence Forces made a "disastrous mistake". Until we know the outcome of a full and complete independent investigation isn't it a little early to make such an assertion? Again, thanks for your great work.
If you don't think conservative judges have been legislating from the bench...you haven't been paying attention 🙄 Originalism and textualism is long for...doing what we want to do.
IDF killed seven aid workers with the World Kitchen. Also aid workers all over the Gaza Strip have been killed. This same action happens year after year somewhere on earth. But it keeps happening. The definition of Insanity.
I am overtired of these two states trying to wipe out each other. Yes, I know Israel and Palestine have their “reasons”, that in my opinion don’t stand for anything if both countries are destroyed. For established countries to be fighting for a piece of the pie, give it up. There isn’t any planetary reason two or more countries not to equally settle differences. Sit down talk, listen, observe, agree, keeping working until peace in your countries. For those monster leaders that think the world is theirs…let me say ‘No one gets out alive’. So stop the chest thumping!
Yea, wishful, nonsensical thinking, most assuredly. As optimist as I can be today.
Give Peace A Chance.
I agree with you, but I don't think that talking will do it. They're going to have to be forced to it. And I don't mean "forced" in the figurative sense of "pressured". I mean quite literally "forced', in the sense of "not being offered another alternative or an opportunity to resist."
Israel is going to have to be forced to protect and provide for the civilians in Gaza while they finish eliminating Hamas.
When the fighting is over, Israel and the Palestinians are going to have to be forced to accept two states. Israel is going to have to be forced to evacuate Gaza and the West Bank -- all of it, contingent on the presence of Arab peacekeepers and Arab-financed rebuilding. The Palestinians will have be forced to accept Gaza and the West Bank as their state -- period. Sovereign but demilitarized. Any "Right of Return" will only apply to "returning" to the new Palestinian State.
I foresee the "two states living side by side in peace", at least for the rest of my life, as nothing like the Netherlands living side by side in peace with Belgium, but very much like East Germany and West Germany living side by side in peace at the height of the Cold War. There will probably be impenetrable barriers between them, as there were between East and West Germany. There will have to be an internationally guaranteed highway, rail corridor and air link between the West Bank and Gaza subject to Israeli oversight, as there was between West Germany and West Berlin, subject to East German oversight. It will certainly be suboptimal ... but given a fair chance, it will be better than anything either side has had for the last 76 years. And, maybe by the time my granddaughters are my age, they will have stopped hating and fearing each other enough to want to make it better.
The problem is that the other Muslim countries don't want that to happen. They want the war to continue.
He certainly was ahead of his peers. But it was the it was the Egyptian Islamists that Nasser had jailed and he had freed and thought he had won over who gunned him down. As I was writing this, I realized for the first time that Sadat's assassination at one level was a kind of foreshadowing of Yitzhak Rabin's, both killed by extremists that they hoped they were bringing around to their point of view.
Carter for all of his faults did just that with Israel and Egypt. Problem is it's in Iran's (and Russia's) perceived interests to keep the Middle East a giant killing machine.
Sadat really wanted peace: that was a huge difference, and a unique opportunity. And he died for it, a lesson not lost on any Arab leader after that.
How were the Oslo Accords "laughably one-sided"? Certainly Israel's withdrawl from Gaza in 2005 and removal of all Jews wasn't one-sided.
you mean the withdrawal after occupation since 1967?
Yes.
Bill, re our pro-democracy coalition and our "efforts with different messages using different mechanisms can get to different groups of voters" - the only voters who matter are the swing voters in WI, MI & PA. By all accounts, Biden MUST win those states to win the EC, so we all must support those Dem state parties: https://wisdems.org/, https://michigandems.com/, and https://www.padems.com/.
Another organization to support is Focus for Democracy (https://www.focus4democracy.org/). They have identified other organizations who are targeting swing voters in the swing states with evidence-backed messages that are proven to work. They turned me on to Galvanize Action (https://www.galvanizeaction.org/) who I'm supporting. They craft appeals to moderate women in rural, small town, and suburban communities who want progress on key issues, AKA swing voters.
Andrew, you said Israel "is a key ally in a region where most everyone would rather see them (and America, for that matter) wiped off the map." They want us out of their back yard. If we did that, would they still want us wiped off the map?
One other note — the killed aid workers, yes, for sure, a tragedy. But where was the writer's empathy for more than 32,000 murdered Palestinians? How could anyone write about only the aid workers and somehow neglect the tens of thousands of Gazans killed, being killed, and who will be killed? "Every flashpoint like the WCK strike threatens to broaden the anti-war coalition beyond those with pro-Palestinian priors." Rarely have I read such blindness. The antiwar coalition has been massive for months.
Blindness?! WCK workers are neutral but working for Gazans. I read the author to be making a RELATIVE statement.."broaden" and not commenting on current size of antiwar coalition.
What a sadly distorted view of the Israel-Palestine war. Biden isn't butting heads with just the "progressives" who see "the Jewish state of Israel" as colonizer, etc. He's butting heads with every decent American who sees the continuous slaughter of Palestinians, mostly women and children. And all decent Americans smart enough to know that if war could settle Israel's problems with Gaza, its problems would have come to and end decades ago, many wars ago. The solution is two states but Israel's right-wing leaders simply will not countenance "decency." Now the U.S. is going down with an ally that spits in our face. We've lost what little credibility we had in the Arab world, and we'll pay for it for much longer than this war. Secretary of State George C. Marshall and Defense Secretary James Forrestal both saw this coming in 1948. Let the U.N. handle Palestine, they urged, STRONGLY. We should stay the hell out of that mess. But Truman screwed the United States but good.
I'm a "decent American", thank you, and I'm aware, as you don't seem to be, that those Palestinian civilians are being used as human shields by the terrorists who should be protecting them but are hiding behind them instead.
By all means, state your opinions, whether well or poorly based, but spare us your noisome moral posturing, and particularly the attempt to speak for "every decent American." You don't, and from that position, you can't.
My dear Mr. Brown:
Pray, good sir, if I may be so bold — I am in receipt of your kind letter of 4 April 2024. Just one more bit of noisome moral posturing.
Palestinian women and children murdered by Netanyahu and the IDF aren't responsible for the hideous actions of Hamas. They'd tell you that themselves if they could. But they can't. They're dead.
With warmest regards,
I am, and remain,
Your most humble & obedient servant,
The voice of every decent American
😂
You left this out in your assessment: Hamas is not in favor of two states. Their mission is to destroy Israel. Also, Israel WAS in favor of 2 states from Oslo to the Netenyahu regime. What happened after Oslo? Suicide bombings by Hamas, among other violence. You left that out too.
Should Israel let Hamas write their shared destiny?
I don't understand your question.
A successful two-state solution means peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike. This, peace with Jews, is antithetical for Hamas. It voids their whole ideology and power basis. Israel abandoning the pursuit of peaceful coexistence as a national policy goal *in response to Hamas terrorism* is giving Hamas exactly what they want.
OK. Agree with that.
Of course Hamas opposes two states. That's why Netanyahu has always preferred that Hamas stick around. And the only proposals for a Palestine state have been laughably one-sided, in Israel's favor, of course. None has been a serious proposal. Hence the constant violence. Add up the body count sometime. See who's "ahead" in that.
There are several elements in the reporting of Aid workers being killed in Gaza that present serious differences of perceived truth as presented in most major US media and by President Biden in contrast to reports and the skepticism expressed in other credible western and middle east sources.
Many Canadians and Europeans have indicated possibility that Netanyahu administration specifically ordered attack on these vehicles as probably Hamas involved, in spite of IDF being assured of their Humanitarian bona fide. There is also great credulity about the supposed outrage from President Biden about the incident, particularly give no hesitancy of his what-so-ever in continuing weapons shipments to Israel under the cloud of charges at International Court of Justice (ICJ) of Israeli genocide against innocent Palestinians during this conflict.
For decades US politicians and government officials have constantly used term of "erring on the side of caution", yet in regard this specific aspect of humanitarian treatment and assistance for refugees in Gaza, there always seems to be "absolutes" accruing to Netanyahu decisions and actions, and Biden acceding to those Israeli positions.
"NYT BREAKING NEWS
President Biden told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that future U.S. support “will be determined” by how Israel treats civilians in Gaza."
I'm no progressive. I'm a former Republican turned left-of-center Democrat. I'm also a practicing Christian that grew up thinking Israel and its leadership could do no wrong. I'm well past that point. Biden needs to start holding Israel accountable, or he needs to cut off the funds. PERIOD.
Will Selber's characterization of the WCK tragedy (a group that I donate to) was a "disastrous mistake" is either naive or sanitized. The IDF struck the first vehicle. The wounded exited to the next vehicle. The IDF struck that vehicle. Those that could move then moved to the third vehicle where they finally all succumbed. This is the same well-trained and funded IDF that just hours earlier had carried out a precision strike in enemy territory (Syria).
My guess is that the unit that carried out the strikes knew full well it was the WCK aid workers. They apparently "suspected" a terrorist was with them. They also think starving civilians (including children) is okay in war, and they don't like the fact that WCK is feeding Gazans. The whole thing is sickening. I really had hoped The Bulwark would not succumb to the unquestioned support of Israel. We have leverage. They need to either stop committing war crimes, or we stop supporting their war. PERIOD. This was a very disappointing piece.
In the words of the esteemed and sorely-missed Charlie Sykes, Will Selber AYFKM with this sterile interpretation of events? Truly disappointed in The Bulwark’s sustained, deafening silence and unambiguously one-sided, conspicuously uncritical stance when the facts and blood-curdling horror on the ground couldn’t be more plain to see.
Thank you, Bill for your shout out to grassroots and for advocating that everyone do what they can to save our Democracy. As President Kennedy is famous for saying: "Every man can make a difference, and every man should try."
"A confident conservative majority, grounded in originalism and textualism, now controls the Supreme Court."
And at that line, I immediately discounted anything further the author has to say. If someone is STILL, at this point, clinging to the delusion that this Supreme Court is "originalist" or "textualist" in its judgments, that person is not connected enough to reality to continue listening to. I mean, seriously?