"It was the docs in the garage, next to the Corvette, that triggered the naming of a new special counsel."
Is anyone else concerned about how the National Archives didn't even know the docs were missing? Whether trump, Biden, or anyone else, how is it that there is not a process in place to 1) Identify what docs have been "checked out", 2) That all are returned within a reasonable amount of time, or officially "extended", and 3) All are returned PRIOR to leaving office.
If I were one of our allies, I'd be extremely concerned and upset. Can't we get this right from the get-go?
It seems there are two primary problems here: (1) overclassifying of materials that are not really classified, indicating laziness/sloppiness and lack of clear criteria for classifying; (2) no oversight as to where classified, or at least highest levels of classified, docs are at any given moment and esp overnight. This is an administrative issue. It could easily be addressed. We probably assumed this was rampant during Trump WH due to incompetence. Now we know it's a bigger problem.
So glad to hear others with concerns about document tracking. Any public library can track whatтАЩs been checked out, who checked it out and when it is returned. Most hospital medication distribution systems are able to track who took medication out, for what patient as well as tracking the medication was given to the correct patient. Seems we need some competent librarian and/or holding people who take/deliver the classified documents responsible for ensuring they are returned. (Anyone ever ever heard of a tickler system?). The biggest problem seems to be that no one knows who has what. ThatтАЩs the real danger
I have been harping on that since Trump. Why doesn't the archive have a better handle on things? If I check a book out of my local library, they know who has it. And if the GOP was something other than a grievance group they would work with Dems to shore up the Archives so they can do a superlative job at this.
Yes, MM. I'm very concerned about just that issue. They also didn't seem to have a handle on exactly how many documents were missing after Trump.
We need much stricter controls and tracking on classified documents. There needs to be a record of where those documents are at all times, who has them, when/if they've been returned, and ultimately whether they've been handed over to NARA at the end of an administration.
They knew some...like his love letters from Kim Jong IL were missing from the Archives. Probably they knew the Top Secret and SCIF nuclear and spy info also.
It's interesting how, for centuries, libraries have had a handle on how to check items out, keep track of what is away from their holdings, and seek their timely return, but the federal government apparently cannot do so with all that staffing and all the technology at their disposal. Perhaps Washington needs to hire more librarians, or at least consult with them on basic matters of archival storage and inventory management.
Since there are tens of thousands of documents the 10 or so documents that Biden had that were not Top Secret were probably easy to miss. The boxes of documents that Trump had were very noticeable and many were Top Secret. He was asked to return them and he refused. The asked him several times and even got a court order. They finally sent in the Feds with a search warrant.
He had 15 boxes. I just pulled this statement from the Justice Dpt. <<<<"Trump resisted returning 11,000 administration documents despite repeated requests from the National Archives under the Presidential Records Act.:>>>>>>
So you're right. They were not all classified, but 300 documents were.
I was thinking more about the total number of classified documents the US government has, not how many documents (classified or other) that Trump had. :)
I agree that it shouldn't be difficult to keep track of documents, especially classified material. The challenge, of course, is that documents like that are being created continuously throughout an administration. Still, there should be a tracking system put in place for any document marked 'classified' regardless of the level of classification.
Checking classified documents in and out so their possessor is known at all times sounds like a sensible solution, so it has no chance of being implemented, anymore than you would put an identifying bracelet on a kid you removed from its parents at the border to ensure they could be reunited. Libraries and hospitals are way too organized.
Unlike libraries, the people taking the docs in the federal government are often powerful and influential people who can't be bothered to do paperwork properly (if at all) and who often have butt-kissing lackeys as support staff.
People are understandably reluctant to be nattering at these people constantly about hey what happened to that document you borrowed 6 months ago, am I ever going to get that back.
Plus, the government classifies a LOT of stuff that (frankly) should not be classified. It introduces classification fatigue.
My textbooks in naval nuclear power school were classified. t's physics/chemistry/thermodynamics people, there isn't anything classified there. (no equipment specific details, etc).
"It was the docs in the garage, next to the Corvette, that triggered the naming of a new special counsel."
Is anyone else concerned about how the National Archives didn't even know the docs were missing? Whether trump, Biden, or anyone else, how is it that there is not a process in place to 1) Identify what docs have been "checked out", 2) That all are returned within a reasonable amount of time, or officially "extended", and 3) All are returned PRIOR to leaving office.
If I were one of our allies, I'd be extremely concerned and upset. Can't we get this right from the get-go?
It seems there are two primary problems here: (1) overclassifying of materials that are not really classified, indicating laziness/sloppiness and lack of clear criteria for classifying; (2) no oversight as to where classified, or at least highest levels of classified, docs are at any given moment and esp overnight. This is an administrative issue. It could easily be addressed. We probably assumed this was rampant during Trump WH due to incompetence. Now we know it's a bigger problem.
So glad to hear others with concerns about document tracking. Any public library can track whatтАЩs been checked out, who checked it out and when it is returned. Most hospital medication distribution systems are able to track who took medication out, for what patient as well as tracking the medication was given to the correct patient. Seems we need some competent librarian and/or holding people who take/deliver the classified documents responsible for ensuring they are returned. (Anyone ever ever heard of a tickler system?). The biggest problem seems to be that no one knows who has what. ThatтАЩs the real danger
I have been harping on that since Trump. Why doesn't the archive have a better handle on things? If I check a book out of my local library, they know who has it. And if the GOP was something other than a grievance group they would work with Dems to shore up the Archives so they can do a superlative job at this.
I suspect the problem is before anything gets to the Archives.
I also suspect the military has a better handle on its classified docs than the rest of the Govt.
Yes, MM. I'm very concerned about just that issue. They also didn't seem to have a handle on exactly how many documents were missing after Trump.
We need much stricter controls and tracking on classified documents. There needs to be a record of where those documents are at all times, who has them, when/if they've been returned, and ultimately whether they've been handed over to NARA at the end of an administration.
They knew what Trump had because they asked for them back for months before they raided and took them back.
They knew he had stuff, it seems like they weren't exactly sure what he had or exactly how much.
They knew some...like his love letters from Kim Jong IL were missing from the Archives. Probably they knew the Top Secret and SCIF nuclear and spy info also.
It's interesting how, for centuries, libraries have had a handle on how to check items out, keep track of what is away from their holdings, and seek their timely return, but the federal government apparently cannot do so with all that staffing and all the technology at their disposal. Perhaps Washington needs to hire more librarians, or at least consult with them on basic matters of archival storage and inventory management.
My sister, the librarian, thanks you
Lots of books go missing from libraries.
Since there are tens of thousands of documents the 10 or so documents that Biden had that were not Top Secret were probably easy to miss. The boxes of documents that Trump had were very noticeable and many were Top Secret. He was asked to return them and he refused. The asked him several times and even got a court order. They finally sent in the Feds with a search warrant.
Tens of thousands? I think you are off by an order of magnitude or three, based upon my time in government/military ;)
He had 15 boxes. I just pulled this statement from the Justice Dpt. <<<<"Trump resisted returning 11,000 administration documents despite repeated requests from the National Archives under the Presidential Records Act.:>>>>>>
So you're right. They were not all classified, but 300 documents were.
I was thinking more about the total number of classified documents the US government has, not how many documents (classified or other) that Trump had. :)
You're absolutely right. The cases are like night and day. Trump was clearly trying to make off with things he thought of as prizes.
I agree that it shouldn't be difficult to keep track of documents, especially classified material. The challenge, of course, is that documents like that are being created continuously throughout an administration. Still, there should be a tracking system put in place for any document marked 'classified' regardless of the level of classification.
Checking classified documents in and out so their possessor is known at all times sounds like a sensible solution, so it has no chance of being implemented, anymore than you would put an identifying bracelet on a kid you removed from its parents at the border to ensure they could be reunited. Libraries and hospitals are way too organized.
Unlike libraries, the people taking the docs in the federal government are often powerful and influential people who can't be bothered to do paperwork properly (if at all) and who often have butt-kissing lackeys as support staff.
People are understandably reluctant to be nattering at these people constantly about hey what happened to that document you borrowed 6 months ago, am I ever going to get that back.
Plus, the government classifies a LOT of stuff that (frankly) should not be classified. It introduces classification fatigue.
My textbooks in naval nuclear power school were classified. t's physics/chemistry/thermodynamics people, there isn't anything classified there. (no equipment specific details, etc).