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Sand's avatar
Sep 23Edited

Sorry but what Jimmy Kimmel said was not crass. It may not have been 100% accurate as concerns Tyler Robinson's motives, but he sure was the product of a MAGA family. And Kimmel was not saying anything derogatory about Charlie Kirk. He called his death murder and then pointed out that Trump couldn't seem to muster more emotion about his death than he could about his damn ballroom. I mean, come on Joe.

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E.K. Hornbeck's avatar

And I thought it was funny, "the 5th stage of grief is construction".

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Sand's avatar

Yes! I did too! It was a clever joke and Trump walked right into it. What is a comedian expected to do?

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Stephen Wiman's avatar

I agree with Sand. I disagree with Joe that Jimmy's humor is stale. It is consistently topical - with rich environment to choose from.

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Timothy M Dwyer's avatar

Define crass: exhibit 10,000 occurred at the United Nations today. Interestingly, 9,990 of the exhibits of crass all authored or at least repeated by one orange man. One of the other ten occurred during George Carlin’s, “the seven words you can’t say on television”. All others by Lenny Bruce

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cruxdaemon's avatar

Kimmel actually said nothing of the shooter's motives. He simply stated that MAGA was working overtime to say the shooter wasn't one of them. And that was true. He was trans. Then he was antifa. Then he had a trans partner. All of these were ways of saying he wasn't MAGA (even though Caitlin Jenner exists). Sure there were randos with no evidence out on social media calling the guy a groyper. But you had Republican members of Congress, the President and VP jumping to conclusions about who killed Kirk before his body was cold.

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Joshua Scholar's avatar

100% I am so disappointed in the Bulwark demanding submission to Trump's bullshit narrative before Trump even got to it.

I'm considering giving up on the place and unsubscribing.

Tim's weird rage and JVL's sanctimony.

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GlenD's avatar

JVL's referencing of his Catholic bona fides has been ascendant of late. That bothers me and my commenting has been dwindling accordingly; not that my two cents' worth was worth even that. Can't blame all of that on the religious posturing, but it's still off-putting. Of late, I've been ignoring comments entirely with increasing frequency. And my wife is Catholic, believe it or not. She doesn't wear it on her sleeve like an Army master sergeant, though. That said, I hate Trump and his puppets more than I hated spending a year of my life in Viet Nam. Truth be told, I can say your consideration is not isolated to only yourself.

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Chad Brick's avatar

It was a half-truth but not false. Both sides spun furiously to pin it on the other.

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ktb8402799's avatar

It was part of a comic monologue that mocked Trumps words and behavior in attempting to “spin furiously” about the guys political beliefs and motives. It wasn’t journalism or a “half truth.” It was comedy, and it only works in any way because of the truth it’s rooted in.

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Kathe Rich's avatar

The White House Historical Association needs to restore the White House to its pre-authoritarian style.

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Keith Wresch's avatar

But everyone’s been pining for the ballroom for 150 years already.

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David Court's avatar

And the Moon really is made of Green Cheese. Just tell the Felon that no one has claimed the moon (ignore the Apollo missions; he has no idea what they were) for their country, so we have to get there first. It is bigger than Greenland and Canada combined for "heaven's" sake! And Elon will get us there on the cheap if you just promise to go easy on his tax breaks.

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Katherine B Barz's avatar

Yes. Didn’t they go up to Felon Trump with tears in their eyes and said, “Sir! We need a place to dance for you!”

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David Court's avatar

He would have only bought into it if they were like Stormy....THAT kind of dancing he appreciates.

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Al Edwards's avatar

Spent 1980-2016 listening to Republicans say they were the most constitutional of all constitutionalists, so very constitutional in their constitutionality that they really deserved their own set of amendments declaring their unsurpassed constitutionalism, perhaps even their own article acknowledging their exalted constitutional status as avatars of the Founders themselves - put on some shades to soften the blazing light of such extreme constitutionalism.

So very constitutional were they, or so I was repeatedly assured. Indeed, when Reagan diverged from the Constitution, we were told that it was the Constitution which was unconstitutional in such cases.

But Cruz, Paul, and Cassidy et al - currently the most constitutional of elected Republicans - seem to be floating at about (0.02)*C, where 1C is full constitutionality; Reagan maxxed at about 1.18*C, the highest constitutionality ever achieved. Time to up your game, boys!

At any rate, they should be grateful to be defending Jimmy Kimmel and not Jimmy Fallon.

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gtgfg's avatar

Outstanding post and very constitutionalist. Take a bow.

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Chuck Aurora's avatar

Well constituted indeed.

PS: Fallon's response to the Kimmel travesty was hilarious. I was proud of him!

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Rosemary Orlandi's avatar

👏👏👏👏👏

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Steve Beckwith's avatar

I sure hope your use of the pejorative "crass" was a bit of sarcasm, Joe. Contrary to being stupid or insensitive by the standards comics are expected to hold to, what Kimmel said was true and quite accurate. He did not, as some have tried to fashion it, say anything about Robinson's motives. What he did was start his monologue with a statement about the senselessness of the killing and a withering excoriation of Trump that centered on the fact that, of all living presidents, Trump was the only one not advocating conciliation but rather blaming liberals for Kirk's death. Later Kimmel said, verbatim, “We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.” This was nothing if not a statement of ugly fact. He made no characterization of Kirk nor of Robinson. I could see how a MAGA stalwart or Trumpist might find Kimmel's words crass. The truth can sometimes hurt. I would not expect that from The Bulwark.

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Ben Gruder's avatar

Non-Trumpians fall into a trap when they are dealing with maximalists and liars: Give a little, bending over backwards to show some kind of shortcoming on our side. But in these times, that NEVER works, it just emboldens them.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

And, on September 10, Jimmy Kimmel posted his condolences on X, sharing his thoughts via X as news broke of the incident, writing, “Instead of the angry finger-pointing, can we just for one day agree that it is horrible and monstrous to shoot another human?”

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Steve Beckwith's avatar

Exactly. Talk about a witch hunt...

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Ann Williams's avatar

So certain Senate Republicans are, to use a common phrase here in the U.K., “all talk and no trousers”. Who knew?

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E.K. Hornbeck's avatar

Sorry, the image of Ted Cruz is his underwear is too much to bear!

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bitchybitchybitchy's avatar

Yeah, that image calls for a trigger warning and brain bleach. STAT

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Ann P's avatar

Cruz is from Texas. There the phrase is “all hat and no cattle”. Means the same thing.

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Frau Katze's avatar

All hat, no cattle.

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Chief Joe's avatar

1. Discharge petition happens.

2. The vote passes

3. Nothing happens after that

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Ben Gruder's avatar

Yep. Trump/Bondi/assorted-knuckleheads will tell Congress to f*ck off. Or pretend that any non-Democrat names must be redacted for reasons of national security or privacy or something. Or maybe they are misfiled in Mara-lago and are probably impossible to retrieve or might take 4 years to locate.

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Reagan Bush Republican's avatar

I'm with you. Nothing will happen. Who in their right mind thinks Trump will turn over the Epstein files that he absolutely doesn't want to turn over, just because the House says he has to? And, the discharge petition is certain to have a lot more Democrat names on it than Republican ones. Don't we know by now, Democrats don't matter? Trump can just ignore them. He only cares what his MAGAs think, and well, maybe the really rich guys.

That said, this is good, because it will force the MAGAs to take sides. Massey and the HFC are hardcore MAGAs, and they will sign the petition. I can't wait to read the rationalizing over at RedState on why the ultimate MAGA (Trump) is at war with the true-believer MAGAs in the House. That part will be worth the pain of watching Trump thumb his nose at Congress.

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Chief Joe's avatar

When there is no penalty for a rule being broken, then there is no rule. #ReynoldsLaw

It's been almost 10 years and no one understands that 'insisting on something' does not equal getting it, especially if there is no underlying punishment. Congress has shown itself to be toothless. The courts, too.

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Reagan Bush Republican's avatar

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) Trump has exposed just how toothless our laws regarding the federal government really are. So much of it depended on tradition, decency, and adherence to cultural and societal norms. Some of this problem goes back to Bill Clinton's fecklessness in not resigning when Republicans maneuvered him into perjuring himself. That action rendered impeachment frivolous and moot. Some of it goes to the cultural deconstruction the Left promotes, which weakened our shared experience and mutual expectations.

But, the lion's share of the blame goes to Trump and the RWNJ's. Nobody ever anticipated the rise of someone as shameless as Donald Trump. In his first term, the people around him reigned him in, and generally kept him from realizing how fragile our system of norms was. But, with four years to plan, the monsters behind Trump 2.0 enlightened him to what was possible, if you don't give a shit about anything, about what anybody thinks of you, or about the judgment of history.

This is what the whacko rightwing of the GOP has been dreaming about for decades. Trump is the first person connected and charismatic enough to be elected, who was also demented and immoral enough to actually believe their dream was the script for a presidency, and not just the fever dream of radical lunatics.

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Pud's avatar

I hope your right. I know this position is not in the majority here, but the Federal government has very broad investigative powers and can finagle such an investigation on anyone. However, I for one think it is an appropriate DOJ norm that unless an investigation results in a formal charge, they should not willy-nilly release the raw data on their investigations. Think of how easy such a release could be used to cripple any citizen by releasing embarrassing info on a political opponent when it could not meet the required standards for prosecution.

Perhaps there is a coverup or such in an investigation. There are other ways to investigate this without a full public data dump. Congressional forums or special counsel type or IG investigations come to mind. But the government has to much potential power over us to permit them to release such info if they are not confident enough to bring a case in court.

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gtgfg's avatar

Kimmel's monologue was directed at Trump, not Charley Kirk. He pointed out Trump's pure narcissistic answer to the question from some journalist who asked him how he felt about his "friend" Charley Kirk's killing. Trump barely acknowledged the question and immediately turned to preen and direct attention to his new project of degrading the White House with his trashy zillion sq ft ballroom. The outrage here is clearly the holier than thou reaction against Kimmel. Anyone with a modicum of insight understands this. Much hypocrisy ado about nothing.

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Ann P's avatar

Joe Rogan agrees with you:

“… Mr. Rogan said in the podcast clip that Mr. Kimmel’s comment about the accused shooter’s political leanings “wasn’t accurate,” but suggested that it was part of a setup to a “very funny” joke about the way Mr. Trump was reacting to Mr. Kirk’s killing.…”

After Days of Silence, Joe Rogan Weighs In on Kimmel’s Suspension - NYT, 9/23/25, gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/23/arts/joe-rogan-jimmy-kimmel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE8.dGMr.nF_wvC3KOf9A&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

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Alexandra Crisafulli's avatar

How long will it take for our fellow citizens realize that Trump is an ignoramus and that he is ruining our country and our democracy? Why have Americans been so lazy and ignorant?

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steve robertshaw's avatar

The problem, of course, is that ignorant people are the ones who voted for trump. There are over 70 million of them, and they're never going to realize this.

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Katherine B Barz's avatar

They can’t. It’s been ten years wedded to Felon Trump’s lies. No way are they going to admit stupidity for so long.

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gtgfg's avatar

Millions of our fellow citizens don't give a shit how they're governed.

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Roscetti's avatar

I think this asking "what if the other side did this?" is a useful exercise. It's natural to be in favor of the actions from one's own side, and turning it around as a question of how you'd feel if they did this to someone on your side can help people focus on the action itself.

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Cyndi's avatar

I don't need to ask what Democrats would have done if a partisan from our side was murdered. Nor what MAGA would have done.

Google Melissa and Mark Hoffman.

Then decide how YOU should feel.

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Jeffrey Amerine's avatar

Republicans are acting like there is no tomorrow.: that they will be in office until the 22nd century. I finally think that there may be a few who realize that if the Democrats come back into power, knock on wood, they might just grow a pair and mete out the same retribution as Tru*p is trying to do. Only we, and the Republicans know that the Democrats are better than that. Which is possibly one reason the Republicans have no problem burning the county down. They figure it's either now, or never.

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Cyndi's avatar

Which is exactly why they are doing their best to make it impossible for a Democrat to win.

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Reagan Bush Republican's avatar

Absent an historic wave, it's getting very hard to see how Democrats hold the Senate in the years to come. There is currently only one GOP Senator in a state that voted against Trump at least twice (Sue Collins of Maine). There are at least 8 Democrats from states that voted for Trump at least twice (GA-2, MI-2, AZ-2, PA-1, and WI-1). And the GOP already has a 4-seat majority. Do the math.

Unless the country miraculously depolarizes, or Dems find another flukey 2006 wave year, Dems won't be able to legislate anything of consequence for the foreseeable future.

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Jeffrey Amerine's avatar

And doesn't this whole mess revolve around the archaic Electoral College? We would have a significantly better opportunity to have a real democracy, one where the views of the majority of the voters actually mattered, rather than the tyranny by the minority that we have to live with now.

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Reagan Bush Republican's avatar

The EC does not impact the Senate or the polarization. Senators are still elected by states.

That said, I can’t agree about the EC. Madison made it his number one priority in drafting the Constitution to protect the minority from mob rule by the majority. He studied every historical democracy and determined that they all failed for the same reason: the government polarized into two factions, one got a majority, and then used it to crush the minority. The result was dictatorship. I’ll stick with Madison over disgruntled Democrats who probably still think SCOTUS made Bush president.

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Jeffrey Amerine's avatar

I'm more concerned about the Presidential election. If Madison could have foreseen a Tru*p in the White House, the Constitution might have been written differently.

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Reagan Bush Republican's avatar

Before November 2016, literally nobody on the planet, Donald Trump included, could have foreseen somebody like Donald Trump in the White House (his people admitted that they thought they might be able to get 15% in the primary and use it to build their brand).

His presidency has been an historical anomaly of epic proportions. You could never have sold this story to Hollywood, because no audience has that much suspension of disbelief. I'll give Madison, the Founders, and all of us a pass on not seeing Trump coming.

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John Joss's avatar

Administration "heavy-handedness" over the Carr/Kimmel matter. Wonderful. You're sugarcoating the outrageous, Constitution-defying act of denying free speech.

With respect, this sort of 'equivalence' is redolent of the current Democratic responses. This sort of mealy-mouthed gentility is far below the standard of the essential, clearly stated indignation you could, or should, display. Go along with Senator Collins, who is "distressed" or "concerned" about some matter occurring in the cult/regime of the orange narcissist-felon.

Some other useless words: "disappointing," "unduly harsh," "inappropriate." Any capable journalist should call a shovel for what it is (expletive withheld).

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Cyndi's avatar

Gave yourself away as a Faux Conservative, here, pal.

"Kimmel’s ratings are poor and his comedy is stale..."

Go pedal your lies on Fox or Newsmax. We know better than to believe you.

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James Kirkland's avatar

OK, the discharge petition gains the required signatures and the vote is taken. As a result DOJ is required to turn over all the Epstein files. What happens next? First up a string of delaying tactics and a flurry of lawsuits followed by appeals to SCOTUS. Then a decision by SCOTUS upholding Congressional oversight (or not, the Immunity Decision makes SCOTUS irrelevant here). And then - nothing. Good for several weeks of delay waiting for the scheduled government shutdown after which The Don declares a national security emergency and forces Congress into indefinite recess. At that point we are off to the races and the game goes to the various states which sent representatives to Congress to advance their policies and priorities which just became irrelevant. We have been here before and Ted Cruz ain't going to save us. Too little and too late also applies to the Republicrat complicits and enablers. Yay.

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max skinner's avatar

The immunity decision has nothing to do with release of the Epstein files, most of which document what happened before the president became president.

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James Kirkland's avatar

Think you may have missed my point. Agree to disagree?

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Peabody Jones's avatar

Jimmy Kimmel's MAGA comment was the setup for a joke about Trump. It was a funny, great joke that beautifully mocked Trump.

Matthew Dowd was fired from MSNBC when the bosses succumbed to rightwing pressure that took Mr. Dowd's comments completely out of context.

The rightwing media did what they always do; they spread disinformation about Kimmell and Dowd based on omitted context.

But Disney reinstated Kimmel. MSNBC hosts Nicolle Wallace and others hypocritically bemoaned the suspension of Kimmel and the attack on free speech, while saying nothing about their own network bending the knee to Trump & MAGA.

MSNBC harmed the reputation of a good, smart, and kind gentleman, Matthew Dowd, who said nothing "wrong" or "disrespectful." He got fired for literally doing his job.

I am wondering if other Bulwarkers are as disappointed in MSNBC as I am.

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Ann P's avatar

“Jimmy Kimmel's MAGA comment was the setup for a joke about Trump. It was a funny, great joke that beautifully mocked Trump.”

Guess what? Joe Rogan agrees with you:

“… Mr. Rogan said in the podcast clip that Mr. Kimmel’s comment about the accused shooter’s political leanings “wasn’t accurate,” but suggested that it was part of a setup to a “very funny” joke about the way Mr. Trump was reacting to Mr. Kirk’s killing.…”

After Days of Silence, Joe Rogan Weighs In on Kimmel’s Suspension - NYT, 9/23/25, gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/23/arts/joe-rogan-jimmy-kimmel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE8.dGMr.nF_wvC3KOf9A&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

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David Krupp's avatar

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." attributed to Voltaire

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David Court's avatar

But, he was an early Democrat, right? No way he would be associated with the POT, the results of RINOs exiting the now defunct GOP.

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Patricia Messier Adams's avatar

They can defend free speech without defending a specific person.

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