Guilianni as the voice of reason in this debacle is a freakin' joke. The fact that he found a line he wouldn't cross is less true than the fact that he sited stated law or precedent. Guilianni has no bottom, let's not kid ourselves.
Pence, Barr, Cuccinelli and all the other disastrous sycophants deserve absolutely, positively no quarter …
Guilianni as the voice of reason in this debacle is a freakin' joke. The fact that he found a line he wouldn't cross is less true than the fact that he sited stated law or precedent. Guilianni has no bottom, let's not kid ourselves.
Pence, Barr, Cuccinelli and all the other disastrous sycophants deserve absolutely, positively no quarter either. Just because they each made one good decision (that obviously proved consequential) in a very long line of horrendous decisions, does not equate to them finding a spine. They are all wealthy men, they will be fine no matter what happens in this country, they will remain untouched by any negative consequences, save some reputational damage, and if the Republican Party has proven anything in the last 5 years, it has proven there is no such thing as reputational damage.
It is time to stop believing that any of those people have any integrity. They are self serving, opportunists that will find another grift to attach themselves to.
Voting D all the way down to dog-catcher (as Tom Nichols says) is the only way this Republic has a chance.
I understand your feelings Mary, and generally agree with them - certainly regarding the need to vote Democratic. However, as a rebuttal to Charlie, I think it's perhaps missing the point.
Because it is natural to feel powerless as individuals in the face of our national turmoil, it is tempting to succumb to the idea that all we can really do is decide who we want to root for and against. This elicits the tendency to view political discourse as a process of establishing a good guy / bad guy narrative and deciding who belongs on which side. Almost as if we believe that once we've sorted all that out, some divine providence will intercede, punishing the wicked and rewarding the righteous. Despite the fact that, deep down, we all know that this isn't how the real world works, it's still challenging to re-orient our perspective outside this very human framework, even though it isn't going to yield the practical outcomes we desire. We blame and shame, everyone gets angrier, but nothing gets fixed.
Charlie's being pragmatic here. He's not giving out awards or back-pats. We don't have to like Pence, Barr, or Giuliani (I certainly don't) to realize that there are worse alternatives that could have made the wrong kind of difference in this case - and who might end up manning those same posts in a second Trump term.
Thank you for the discourse, I disagree with your framing 😉
I take it from your middle paragraph that you are a believer in God. I am not much for the good and evil thing. There is reality and there is delusion.
The Republican Party is now, and has been for awhile, fine with inflicting harm on “others”. The scales fell from my eyes (I know, biblical reference, ironic, huh?) about 20-25 years ago. God, guns and gays became weaponized. Tax cuts became enshrined as gospel. Bootstraps were fetishized. Makers and takers and all that. All the folks who are Never Trump now (and I am grateful) were fine with the pre-Trump version of Republicans because it was how they made their living. I get that, I am calling out their lack of awareness more than their lack of understanding. I accept most, if not all, are good people, just not too concerned with how to assist the huddled masses. Trump supersized the cruelty, but this has been brewing A LONG TIME.
All of this is a roundabout way of saying pragmatism has left the building. IMHO, If we end up with Trump 2.0 we are done as a Republic. It makes me very sad but I won’t give any credit to anybody who ever kowtowed to 45.
Well no, actually, I'm an atheist (since my mid teens, in my late 40s now), so we have that in common. 😊 I wasn't suggesting people actually believe divine providence will save us, at least not based on their personal judgement.
Maybe I waxed philosophical a bit too much there, but the point was to say that in politics we do too much arguing over whether this or that person is blameworthy or deserving of credit or forgiveness, and not enough dispassionate analysis of problems and solutions. So it might feel natural to react to a purely analytical statement about how Trump might rid himself of people unwilling to go the distance with him, as if the intention were to praise those people, rather than warn how they won't be around next time.
At any rate, I think we all agree that a second Trump term would be a disaster for America which would make his first term seem like the good ol' days.
Guilianni as the voice of reason in this debacle is a freakin' joke. The fact that he found a line he wouldn't cross is less true than the fact that he sited stated law or precedent. Guilianni has no bottom, let's not kid ourselves.
Pence, Barr, Cuccinelli and all the other disastrous sycophants deserve absolutely, positively no quarter either. Just because they each made one good decision (that obviously proved consequential) in a very long line of horrendous decisions, does not equate to them finding a spine. They are all wealthy men, they will be fine no matter what happens in this country, they will remain untouched by any negative consequences, save some reputational damage, and if the Republican Party has proven anything in the last 5 years, it has proven there is no such thing as reputational damage.
It is time to stop believing that any of those people have any integrity. They are self serving, opportunists that will find another grift to attach themselves to.
Voting D all the way down to dog-catcher (as Tom Nichols says) is the only way this Republic has a chance.
I understand your feelings Mary, and generally agree with them - certainly regarding the need to vote Democratic. However, as a rebuttal to Charlie, I think it's perhaps missing the point.
Because it is natural to feel powerless as individuals in the face of our national turmoil, it is tempting to succumb to the idea that all we can really do is decide who we want to root for and against. This elicits the tendency to view political discourse as a process of establishing a good guy / bad guy narrative and deciding who belongs on which side. Almost as if we believe that once we've sorted all that out, some divine providence will intercede, punishing the wicked and rewarding the righteous. Despite the fact that, deep down, we all know that this isn't how the real world works, it's still challenging to re-orient our perspective outside this very human framework, even though it isn't going to yield the practical outcomes we desire. We blame and shame, everyone gets angrier, but nothing gets fixed.
Charlie's being pragmatic here. He's not giving out awards or back-pats. We don't have to like Pence, Barr, or Giuliani (I certainly don't) to realize that there are worse alternatives that could have made the wrong kind of difference in this case - and who might end up manning those same posts in a second Trump term.
Thank you for the discourse, I disagree with your framing 😉
I take it from your middle paragraph that you are a believer in God. I am not much for the good and evil thing. There is reality and there is delusion.
The Republican Party is now, and has been for awhile, fine with inflicting harm on “others”. The scales fell from my eyes (I know, biblical reference, ironic, huh?) about 20-25 years ago. God, guns and gays became weaponized. Tax cuts became enshrined as gospel. Bootstraps were fetishized. Makers and takers and all that. All the folks who are Never Trump now (and I am grateful) were fine with the pre-Trump version of Republicans because it was how they made their living. I get that, I am calling out their lack of awareness more than their lack of understanding. I accept most, if not all, are good people, just not too concerned with how to assist the huddled masses. Trump supersized the cruelty, but this has been brewing A LONG TIME.
All of this is a roundabout way of saying pragmatism has left the building. IMHO, If we end up with Trump 2.0 we are done as a Republic. It makes me very sad but I won’t give any credit to anybody who ever kowtowed to 45.
Well no, actually, I'm an atheist (since my mid teens, in my late 40s now), so we have that in common. 😊 I wasn't suggesting people actually believe divine providence will save us, at least not based on their personal judgement.
Maybe I waxed philosophical a bit too much there, but the point was to say that in politics we do too much arguing over whether this or that person is blameworthy or deserving of credit or forgiveness, and not enough dispassionate analysis of problems and solutions. So it might feel natural to react to a purely analytical statement about how Trump might rid himself of people unwilling to go the distance with him, as if the intention were to praise those people, rather than warn how they won't be around next time.
At any rate, I think we all agree that a second Trump term would be a disaster for America which would make his first term seem like the good ol' days.