You are wrong, I think, on there being a 'line.' This assumes that there is some sort of moral or ethical choice that they would not make, in order to avoid going down a road. This, I think, is wrong. Because in my view, that doesn't make sense. If you believe the election is stolen, then why wouldn't you do everything in your power to p…
You are wrong, I think, on there being a 'line.' This assumes that there is some sort of moral or ethical choice that they would not make, in order to avoid going down a road. This, I think, is wrong. Because in my view, that doesn't make sense. If you believe the election is stolen, then why wouldn't you do everything in your power to prevent that?
The answer reveals itself later. Giuliani did not find a line he wouldn't cross. He was, and is, a true believer that he could find the evidence to prove the election was stolen. If we start from that point of view, then using the military would have jeopardized the 'win' condition of keeping Trump in office, because even IF he was right, he knew that using the military would cause too much of a backlash. As a true believer, he believed he could find the evidence and create the outcome in such a way as to create legitimacy for the result he wanted. This isn't not crossing a line so much as him trying to game out the best way to win.
One thing I think needs to be said: guys like Giuliani are crazy, but they're not insane. Their actions follow logic, if you can understand what they believe. It might be nice to think that he was having some kind of moral hesitation, but that's a lie. It's clear that he knew that his goal would be imperiled if Trump used the military, even if he was right.
Put it another way, once you cross the Rubicon, there's no justifying yourself after the fact. Everyone knows what you are. Rudy is crazy, not insane. He knows this. His boosters know this. The only one that doesn't care about this is Trump. It's what separates guys like Giuliani from guys like Flynn. Giuliani is a true believer and believes he can reveal the truth and everyone will accept his truth. Flynn doesn't care if it's true or not, he cares about having power, and he'll justify that however he wants to. Powell is roughly the same.
In some ways, Giuliani's choice was the worst choice for democracy. Had Trump actually given the order, it would have made clear what he was and what he wanted to do. Instead, he's been saved by a media complex that has obfuscated about the whole thing. By not crossing the Rubicon, by not giving the order, he's been able to make it seem like he never did and had no intention of doing so.
In many ways, Giuliani managed to create a situation where Trump survived to possibly be president again.
Nice post...and distinction between between a line being drawn vs. declining a losing strategy.
Further...it's also like the "guardrails of our democracy" (i.e. people pushing back on Trump) have enabled Trump to be Trump without the devastating consequences his actions or intentions truly deserved.
You are wrong, I think, on there being a 'line.' This assumes that there is some sort of moral or ethical choice that they would not make, in order to avoid going down a road. This, I think, is wrong. Because in my view, that doesn't make sense. If you believe the election is stolen, then why wouldn't you do everything in your power to prevent that?
The answer reveals itself later. Giuliani did not find a line he wouldn't cross. He was, and is, a true believer that he could find the evidence to prove the election was stolen. If we start from that point of view, then using the military would have jeopardized the 'win' condition of keeping Trump in office, because even IF he was right, he knew that using the military would cause too much of a backlash. As a true believer, he believed he could find the evidence and create the outcome in such a way as to create legitimacy for the result he wanted. This isn't not crossing a line so much as him trying to game out the best way to win.
One thing I think needs to be said: guys like Giuliani are crazy, but they're not insane. Their actions follow logic, if you can understand what they believe. It might be nice to think that he was having some kind of moral hesitation, but that's a lie. It's clear that he knew that his goal would be imperiled if Trump used the military, even if he was right.
Put it another way, once you cross the Rubicon, there's no justifying yourself after the fact. Everyone knows what you are. Rudy is crazy, not insane. He knows this. His boosters know this. The only one that doesn't care about this is Trump. It's what separates guys like Giuliani from guys like Flynn. Giuliani is a true believer and believes he can reveal the truth and everyone will accept his truth. Flynn doesn't care if it's true or not, he cares about having power, and he'll justify that however he wants to. Powell is roughly the same.
In some ways, Giuliani's choice was the worst choice for democracy. Had Trump actually given the order, it would have made clear what he was and what he wanted to do. Instead, he's been saved by a media complex that has obfuscated about the whole thing. By not crossing the Rubicon, by not giving the order, he's been able to make it seem like he never did and had no intention of doing so.
In many ways, Giuliani managed to create a situation where Trump survived to possibly be president again.
Nice post...and distinction between between a line being drawn vs. declining a losing strategy.
Further...it's also like the "guardrails of our democracy" (i.e. people pushing back on Trump) have enabled Trump to be Trump without the devastating consequences his actions or intentions truly deserved.