Fuck conservative snowflakes. They simply couldn't handle Kimmel saying what he thought, whatever that was doesn't matter, and the corporate suits, who value only wealth, cave in to conservative demands. This is a free speech issue, a constitutionally protected right that is rejected by conservatives who deny the existence of inherent rights by definition.
Unlike you, who seemed to have ZERO understanding of what Kimmel said, I’ve listened to Kimmel for past 10 yrs. He definitely was commenting on the apoplectic MAGA who had been AND continue to tar EVERY non-Trump supporter as Kirk’s murderer. Instead of swallowing and parroting a narrative like YOU THREE DID, you should also point out there is no evidence that Tyler Robinson is a “leftist.” Saying Kirk had “hate speech” is simply a fact. Unless you believe that everyone who supports LGBTQ rights is “leftist” which means our society is very F’d up.
Also, Kimmel immediately posted his condolences to Kirk’s family the day it happened. His next show he also said only appropriate things about the shooting and condemned those who celebrated it. Kimmel opposed his shooting “vociferously.” So the context does not fit with your interpretation.
It was great to see a unified push back. The artists, a few Republicans, and huge response from the people. Indivisible organized a response. And it’s great to have something “pro-democracy” work against the Trump Regime.
Everything you said about the state trying to control our media is certainly true and they won’t stop. NexStar is trying to obtain access to 80% of households. That’s obscene. We should all be concerned about Trump and his people orchestrating a right wing media takeover, which is an explicit goal of Project 2025 and “The Seven Mountain Mandate” of the Christian Nationalists. We need to organize just as strong a fight against this.
lol, despite that there is a lot in this episode to comment on, the thing that jumped out to me is conflating the Save The Cat method with the three-act structure.
Save The Cat is formulaic, to the point of being like AI (I’ll not make a playful joke about how of course AI-enthusiast Peter conflated the two.) The method is so dogmatic about structure that it dictates what page something should happen. It has become so stale that I have been told readers reject scripts when they get a whiff of “the cat.”
There’s no “struggle between Jimmy Kimmel, Disney, Nexstar/Sinclair, and Brendan Carr at the FCC”. In fact the only “struggle” I heard was the disgusting attempts by the three hosts to outdo each-other with their disgraceful justifications of and forgiveness for Trump and his underlings’* unconstitutional use of state power to punish speech.
I expect better from The Bulwark and from ATMA (or perhaps “I truly thought I could expect better”).
*: to the extent administration underlings can even be spoken of as individuals anymore rather than “willful embracers of ego death in service of their lord and savior”.
Sonny, Peter and Alyssa are my favorite movie reviewers to listen to and I say this with the greatest respect and disappointment…there is so much hand-wringing about what Jimmy said that I found myself yelling back to them in the podcast. Proclaiming value judgments on Jimmy’s speech means we have lost already. Not to mention the comment about his statement being “dumb, and bad and quickly proven false.” Two of those are opinions and one is an incorrect statement of fact. Y’all. Please. Stop arguing on their terms. You’re trying so hard to make friends with people who “disagree” that you’ve lose that his speech is constitutionally protected from government censorship EVEN IF it is knowingly false. Defenders of the first amendment lose every time you do that, give a throat clearing to whether what he said was true or appropriate. Please stop.
It may be true that in the past 15 years, late-night TV has become more political and more skewed. Might we consider the possibility that this shift was in response to something else? It's not something Carson would have done. Is there anything different in politics and the culture now from when Carson was on the air? Maybe comedy is shifting to meet the moment. We don't know what Carson would have done during a Trump presidency. We know he spent *a lot* of time on Watergate jokes at the time, and many think it made a difference in how the public viewed Nixon and his conduct.
Just something to consider. I found it just a little strange that there could be any discussion, which seemed to lean toward lament, regarding a change in what comedy comments on and how it comments without acknowledging some pretty significant change in what there is to comment on.
“The Maga gang [is] desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it,” -- Jimmy Kimmel (via his writers!) comment. It was about the most anodyne comment anyone could make about a horrific event -- and correctly called out the flailing response of the Trumpian Republicans. If there was anything for the Donald to be upset about, it came later, when Kimmel (again, with his writers!) said this: “This is not how an adult grieves the murder of somebody called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish.”
The most satirical thing about the Kimmel show are the fantastic sobriquets the writers keep coming up with for Trump--hilarious, pointed, and never ending!
This is why Disney/ABC's response was so unbelievable -- and recognizable to EVERYONE as the small business owner being shaken down by the local Mobsters. Pathetic.
💯💯💯!It was amusing (in an Orwellian way) to see Carr call Kimmels remark “the sickest” thing anyone could say while Trump and every MAGA was overtly threatening to ruin every non Trumper in the country. Because of course it was all about what Kimmel said about Trump. But Carr didn’t want to bring more attention to THAT truth.
I appreciate late night comedians and satirists showing the absurdity of our political and business leaders. Trump, MAGA and GOP have a number of 'entertainment shows' that spew hate, division and lies. When The Daily Show called out Fox's lies, Jon Stewart received a letter from Fox's legal team that the majority of Fox's shows were "entertainment" not news, therefore, they were voicing opinions not facts. Jon Stewart, The Daily Show hosts, John Oliver, Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Myers, and Jimmy Fallon are masters at showing right wing media's lies and propaganda.
The non-right wing world has few mainstream media or cable shows. The late night talk shows and Last Week with John Oliver should not change to become a new version of Johnny Carson. I appreciate knowing there is one place where Trump, MAGA, Peter Thiel & the other anti-democracy tech bros do not control the narrative.
smh. The guest here has not watched much of Jimmy Kimmel at all. And there is free speech. As she said she hopes Kimmel is introspective I sure wish Trump would have some introspection as well as Miller and several others on their hate speech and violence inciting rhetoric.
Fuck conservative snowflakes. They simply couldn't handle Kimmel saying what he thought, whatever that was doesn't matter, and the corporate suits, who value only wealth, cave in to conservative demands. This is a free speech issue, a constitutionally protected right that is rejected by conservatives who deny the existence of inherent rights by definition.
Unlike you, who seemed to have ZERO understanding of what Kimmel said, I’ve listened to Kimmel for past 10 yrs. He definitely was commenting on the apoplectic MAGA who had been AND continue to tar EVERY non-Trump supporter as Kirk’s murderer. Instead of swallowing and parroting a narrative like YOU THREE DID, you should also point out there is no evidence that Tyler Robinson is a “leftist.” Saying Kirk had “hate speech” is simply a fact. Unless you believe that everyone who supports LGBTQ rights is “leftist” which means our society is very F’d up.
Also, Kimmel immediately posted his condolences to Kirk’s family the day it happened. His next show he also said only appropriate things about the shooting and condemned those who celebrated it. Kimmel opposed his shooting “vociferously.” So the context does not fit with your interpretation.
It was great to see a unified push back. The artists, a few Republicans, and huge response from the people. Indivisible organized a response. And it’s great to have something “pro-democracy” work against the Trump Regime.
Everything you said about the state trying to control our media is certainly true and they won’t stop. NexStar is trying to obtain access to 80% of households. That’s obscene. We should all be concerned about Trump and his people orchestrating a right wing media takeover, which is an explicit goal of Project 2025 and “The Seven Mountain Mandate” of the Christian Nationalists. We need to organize just as strong a fight against this.
Appreciate the episode and discussion
lol, despite that there is a lot in this episode to comment on, the thing that jumped out to me is conflating the Save The Cat method with the three-act structure.
Save The Cat is formulaic, to the point of being like AI (I’ll not make a playful joke about how of course AI-enthusiast Peter conflated the two.) The method is so dogmatic about structure that it dictates what page something should happen. It has become so stale that I have been told readers reject scripts when they get a whiff of “the cat.”
The typical three-act structure is ancient, basically. It’s far more elastic, which is why something as straightforward as All the President’s Men and something that plays with linear storytelling like Weapons both work within it. Joseph Campbell’s writing on it is the authority. Dan Harmon further translated and simplified it.(https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_101:_Super_Basic_Shit)(https://channel101.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Structure_101:_Super_Basic_Shit)
thanx for the redford time, I'm still grieving himself and all that talent, even
accidental talent (?) also the sting made people forget about some fear at the time
There’s no “struggle between Jimmy Kimmel, Disney, Nexstar/Sinclair, and Brendan Carr at the FCC”. In fact the only “struggle” I heard was the disgusting attempts by the three hosts to outdo each-other with their disgraceful justifications of and forgiveness for Trump and his underlings’* unconstitutional use of state power to punish speech.
I expect better from The Bulwark and from ATMA (or perhaps “I truly thought I could expect better”).
*: to the extent administration underlings can even be spoken of as individuals anymore rather than “willful embracers of ego death in service of their lord and savior”.
*AND* his crackers fucking suck.
Sonny, Peter and Alyssa are my favorite movie reviewers to listen to and I say this with the greatest respect and disappointment…there is so much hand-wringing about what Jimmy said that I found myself yelling back to them in the podcast. Proclaiming value judgments on Jimmy’s speech means we have lost already. Not to mention the comment about his statement being “dumb, and bad and quickly proven false.” Two of those are opinions and one is an incorrect statement of fact. Y’all. Please. Stop arguing on their terms. You’re trying so hard to make friends with people who “disagree” that you’ve lose that his speech is constitutionally protected from government censorship EVEN IF it is knowingly false. Defenders of the first amendment lose every time you do that, give a throat clearing to whether what he said was true or appropriate. Please stop.
It may be true that in the past 15 years, late-night TV has become more political and more skewed. Might we consider the possibility that this shift was in response to something else? It's not something Carson would have done. Is there anything different in politics and the culture now from when Carson was on the air? Maybe comedy is shifting to meet the moment. We don't know what Carson would have done during a Trump presidency. We know he spent *a lot* of time on Watergate jokes at the time, and many think it made a difference in how the public viewed Nixon and his conduct.
Just something to consider. I found it just a little strange that there could be any discussion, which seemed to lean toward lament, regarding a change in what comedy comments on and how it comments without acknowledging some pretty significant change in what there is to comment on.
“The Maga gang [is] desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it,” -- Jimmy Kimmel (via his writers!) comment. It was about the most anodyne comment anyone could make about a horrific event -- and correctly called out the flailing response of the Trumpian Republicans. If there was anything for the Donald to be upset about, it came later, when Kimmel (again, with his writers!) said this: “This is not how an adult grieves the murder of somebody called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish.”
The most satirical thing about the Kimmel show are the fantastic sobriquets the writers keep coming up with for Trump--hilarious, pointed, and never ending!
This is why Disney/ABC's response was so unbelievable -- and recognizable to EVERYONE as the small business owner being shaken down by the local Mobsters. Pathetic.
💯💯💯!It was amusing (in an Orwellian way) to see Carr call Kimmels remark “the sickest” thing anyone could say while Trump and every MAGA was overtly threatening to ruin every non Trumper in the country. Because of course it was all about what Kimmel said about Trump. But Carr didn’t want to bring more attention to THAT truth.
I grew up watching The Sting, it will always be one of my favorites.
I appreciate late night comedians and satirists showing the absurdity of our political and business leaders. Trump, MAGA and GOP have a number of 'entertainment shows' that spew hate, division and lies. When The Daily Show called out Fox's lies, Jon Stewart received a letter from Fox's legal team that the majority of Fox's shows were "entertainment" not news, therefore, they were voicing opinions not facts. Jon Stewart, The Daily Show hosts, John Oliver, Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Myers, and Jimmy Fallon are masters at showing right wing media's lies and propaganda.
The non-right wing world has few mainstream media or cable shows. The late night talk shows and Last Week with John Oliver should not change to become a new version of Johnny Carson. I appreciate knowing there is one place where Trump, MAGA, Peter Thiel & the other anti-democracy tech bros do not control the narrative.
smh. The guest here has not watched much of Jimmy Kimmel at all. And there is free speech. As she said she hopes Kimmel is introspective I sure wish Trump would have some introspection as well as Miller and several others on their hate speech and violence inciting rhetoric.
Which is exactly why I haven’t watched Fallon since 2016. And why Colbert has higher ratings than Fallon.