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Liberal Cynic's avatar

"Otherwise we would have whites targeting Asians."

Um, do you not remember this from all the way back in 2021?

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/17/us/shooting-atlanta-acworth

Solving class disparity would go a long ways. However, it's too bad that the Republican party, despite trying to rebrand itself as the party of the [white] working class, is all in on making class disparity worse. Has been for decades.

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Frank Lee's avatar

It is blacks targeting Asians. Again, it is class bias.

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

Not in the story I linked to you it wasn't.

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Frank Lee's avatar

Wow. You found one story and from the NYT! Try pulling the statistics if you want to make a relevant point... because everyone can find a story.

Backs are highly over represented in violence against Asians. https://www.financegeek.org/chinese/black-on-asian-crime/

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

The idea it was blacks targeting Asians came straight from right-wing propaganda as a way to to shift blame for all the white targeting going on. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2021/03/11/why-the-trope-of-black-asian-conflict-in-the-face-of-anti-asian-violence-dismisses-solidarity/ It is not a golf game where the lowest score wins. Besides, your link is out of date. Ever since Trump started calling Covid "the China virus," assaults on Asians (because, you know, they all look alike) skyrocketed. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2020.1839114 more than three-fourths of Asian assault are perpetuated by whites. https://docs.google.com/document/d/19llMUCDHX-hLKru-cnDCq0BirlpNgF07W3f-q0J0ko4/edit Meanwhile, MAGA pastors all over America are foaming at the mouth, making them look more like demons than the Democrats they literally demonize. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmHYuwOoR9A (from 1:25)

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Arun's avatar

"NYT". So says the guy who relies on a "Finance Geek" article to justify his BS on racism.

Here's another one for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Sikh_temple_shooting

There's no organized anti-immigrant black group as you may want to believe. There are however anti-immigrant white nationalists/supremacists who routinely have problems with asians/blacks/latinos/Jews/LGBT/women. Also this is just an evolution for this same group has also had problems in the past with Irish/Germans/Italians etc.

Shame on you for spouting such "divide & conquer" non-sense. Would have asked you to remove your tin-foil hat, but you know exactly what you are attempting here.

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

You said "whites aren't targeting Asians."

I found you a story that shows a white targeting Asians. It was a pretty big story last year. Would you like to amend your statement?

Asians themselves blame Trump and whites for the rise in violence against them:

https://morningconsult.com/2021/04/07/asian-america-racism-discrimination-poll/

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3151188/many-asian-republicans-blame-trump-not-their-party

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/03/19/trumps-chinese-virus-tweet-helped-fuel-anti-asian-hate-on-twitter-study-finds/?sh=67be76741a7c

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1087536315

Ah, but what do Asians know compared to Mr. Finance Geek.

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Frank Lee's avatar

LOL. Sure. That is why Asians are leaving the Democrat party.

You rattle off corporate media links like you cannot do you own research and critical thinking. The data from the article I cited was directly from your beloved government stats. Blacks make up 12% of the population compared to 62.3% white. Yet blacks are responsible for 27.5% of violent incidents against Asians compared to 24.1% whites.

Do you do math?

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

Asians blame Trump's rhetoric for the skyrocketing increase in assaults. They blame Democrats for what they perceive as efforts to weaken their number one priority--education.

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Frank Lee's avatar

Class disparity was shrinking under Trump. Probably explained why Democrats were so committed to defeating him as Democrats need their talking points.

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Frank Lee's avatar

Oh Jesus. See why we cannot have nice things. Fake news and fake "studies" everywhere.

It is widely known and accepted in the real world of non-alternate facts that, under Trump, real working class income relative to inflation moved up relative to the upper class.

Under Trump paychecks grew faster than inflation. Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 8.7% after inflation. Biden has destroyed that.

https://news.yahoo.com/irs-data-prove-trump-tax-130007569.html

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/06/are-wages-rising-or-flat/

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

All the statistics taken together show that income disparity has accelerated. https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide-to-statistics-on-historical-trends-in-income-inequality And once again, Biden does not control inflation. If you want to engage is stupid partisanship finger-pointing, the factors that contributed to inflation began under Trump. It is a bit like braking your car. Even if you floor it, the car won't stop until many feet later. The inflation we are seeing now was predicted during the Trump administration. It was already baked in the cake.

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Frank Lee's avatar

LOL. So we cannot blame Biden (and if we do it is partisan finger pointing), but we can blame Trump for economic performance under Biden? Ha! Maybe it is still Bush's fault? This just keeps proving what Reagan said: "It is not that our liberal friends are ignorant, it is that they know so much that just isn't so."

What was the average price of gas when Trump left office. $2.20. What is the average price of gas today. $4.60. I think you have a lot of nerve or are demonstating a lot of desparation excusing Biden's inflation. It is going to pound Democrats into smithereens in November.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

You have missed my point entirely, and probably deliberately. My point is Trump is not to blame for inflation either. If he had won a second term, we would still be experiencing the same inflation. I am telling you to stop always seeking to cast blame, and instead learn to objectively analyze at the multivariate factors of any complicated situation.

If voters are stupid enough to vote for Republicans based on gas prices, then America will deserve the autocracy the GOP is promising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vHQnQ_x5Y

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Frank Lee's avatar

"If he had won a second term, we would still be experiencing the same inflation."

No because he would have vetoed the $2+ tillion in Democrat spending.

Even the Fed says that government spending cause the level of inflation we are seeing. https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2022/march/why-is-us-inflation-higher-than-in-other-countries/

He would not have canceled all the oil drilling permits. He would have pushed back on the continued King Fauci shutdown and mandates... that by the way never worked and causes more harm.

We might have had some inflation, but not this level.

This is just excuse-making whataboutism. You love old Biden and hate old Trump and so you will keep making excuses for Biden and blame Trump for your hangnail.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

Your own source says government spending CONTRIBUTED, not caused. Propagandists often work by misquoting. Government spending increases the money supply. Inflation means an increase in money supply without a commensurate increase in consumer spending.

Money Supply:

March 2017 to Feb 2020 steady increase of $57/month

Feb 2020 to May 2020 explosion to $792/month

May 2020-Jan 2021 moderates to $170/month

Jan 2021 to March 2022 slight but steady increase of $174/month

Your source says, "Estimates suggest that fiscal support measures designed to counteract the severity of the pandemic’s economic effect may have contributed to this divergence by raising inflation about 3 percentage points by the end of 2021." Nearly all of that 3% front-loaded by May 2020.

Even with the extra money supply, if the economists had been correct about velocity forecasts, inflation would have been moderated. In any case, inflation was baked into the cake long before the American Rescue Plan.

You love old Trump and hate old Biden, and you will keep making excuses for Trump and blame Biden for your hangnail. You keep coming at us not with any sort of objective analysis, but with stupid, right-wing, reactive propaganda.

By the way, with our honor system quarantine, stupid mask culture war, inconsistent compliance with shutdowns, lack of testing in the early stages, etc, etc, we are lucky to get by with 1,000,000 dead. Without any measures, there would have been 20,000,000 dead. It is shameful that the greatest country on earth, the country that should have been the gold standard in pandemic response, has the 18th highest death rate out of more than 200 countries.

PS I suggest you read your own source, every single word.

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Frank Lee's avatar

"Without any measures, there would have been 20,000,000 dead. "

You are crystal balling here without a license.

Sweden, a country that did not lock down... took the Trump and DeSantic approach rather than the Biden and Newsom approach... has 18,941 COVID deaths to date. The population of Sweden is 10,216,721. The US number of COVID deaths is 1,000,000. The population is 327,002,651.

Sweden has a COVID death rate of 1 for every 553 people. The US, 1 COVID death per every 327 people.

Really sucks knowing that the politics you support killed so many more people.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

Oops, I typed an extra 0. 2,000,000 was the estimate widely published early in 2020. The mitigation measures were successful, but could have been far more successful if trump supporters did not turn the pandemic into yet another trump loyalty test. Sweden was a failure. Tegnell himself stressed that “Sweden did close down enormously” despite the lack of a formal lockdown. It had empty streets for much of 2020 and almost no cases of flu and other respiratory diseases as people worked from home and avoided travel and social contact, he said. Lucky for them, many Swedes used common sense and pragmatically stayed home on their own, masked up on their own and so on. Sweden’s government took a more active role in the pandemic during the second Covid-19 wave in December and January, imposing new restrictions.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5

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Frank Lee's avatar

"Inflation means an increase in money supply without a commensurate increase in consumer spending."

No.

Inflation results from an increase in demand without a corresponding increase in production. Demand exceeds supply and thus there is a price equilibrium adjustment upward. Increased prices should decrease demand... except when the Democrats print money to hand out. In that case demand just keeps rising. And then the Democrats gave money to workers to not work... thus exacerbating the problems with supply. The Democrat global warming religion has them supporting old Joe's cancellation of Trump's reforms on oils production. The cost of energy thus skyrocketed and impacted everything. For example, the addle-brained lefties have decided that nobody should eat meat and everyone should eat only plants (because that will save the planet... right) does not even understand the process to make synthetic fertilizer (no organic fertilizer as they have killed all the cows, pigs and chickens) as it is dependent on energy... primarily natural gas... which old Joe deleted with his boneheaded Democrat global warming religion moves against "evil" fossil fuels. The the price of grains and other farm products is skyrocketing... and it is going to get much much worse.

My liberal city is a mess... roads are a mess... budget is a mess... crime is a mess... everything is a mess. The reason is that liberals are emotive people prone to light up on symbolism and incapable of objective, pragmatic, common sense problem solving. They are a hazard to themselves, and everyone else when they get into power.

Old Joe is just a puppet of the left and liberal reaction machine and we are seeing first hand how destructive that is to American families. Now he is going to release some Diesel from the strategy reserve. Again, all symbolism and no substance. Gas went higher when he released it from the reserve. But the NYT and CNN was gushing about his leadership in the face of the crisis.

Trump would be solving these problems while Democrats work hard to stop him... because Democrats cannot stomach the symbolism of Trump solving problems. They would prefer that we fall to destruction rather than admit that their politics suck and the adults need to take over to fix everything they broke. Democrats do not fix any crises. They make them.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

Yes and no, The reason there was no commensurate consumer spending to keep things in equilibrium was because supply could not keep up with demand. However, inflation does not mean simply price increases. It means excess money supply.

And on cue you go back to partisan propaganda. The vast majority of the money supply was in the economy before the Inauguration. In fact, if Trump had had his way, the $2000 stimulus checks (instead of $600) would have been in the mail before the election. The last stimulus bill was sold as fulfilling Trump's promises. Your whole paragraph is propaganda framing. It comes from nowhere else People have shown you time and again that you are factually wrong. But here are are again spreading the same garbage. The effort to continually refute your propaganda is exponentially greater that your effort to spread it.

Trump did not solve problems. He created them, and then took credit for solving problems he created. The only senseless obstruction to problem solving has been on the part of the GOP. They still don't have any plans for a world class US health care system, the one Trump promised would be ready day one of his presidency after the GOP vigorously obstructed Dem efforts for eight years

Do you hear yourself? There is nothing objective about what you wrote. It is all entirely laden with loaded emotional framing. The projection is strong with you. The GOP has had plenty of time to show themselves capable of objective pragmatic common sense solutions, but have done none of that. They certainly are not running on any such proposals. You have made a huge number of generalized assertions, but you cannot support any of them with actual facts divorced from their original context.

But here is the bottom line. Trump, along with his GOP collaborators tried to implement the Eastman plan to, in his own words, "overturn the election" by "changing the outcome." The purpose was to get himself installed unconstitutionally, like a dictator, for a second term. This is now beyond dispute. Therefore, no one who is a patriot supports Trump or any Trump-adjacent candidates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vHQnQ_x5Y

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

Trump routinely supported expensive Covid legislation and asked for more than Mitch was willing to approve. So you don't know that Trump would have vetoed the last Covid bill. That's speculation based on your preferences.

Biden has not canceled all the oil drilling permits.

Biden did not institute or continue shutdowns.

Biden did support vaccine and mask mandates. Please explain how you think those two things contributed to high inflation and gas prices since they would have resulted in more people getting back to work more quickly.

You are wishcasting and attributing to Biden things he never did. I mean, I'm sure OANN has reported that he's done those things but in the real world Biden did not shut down drilling, etc.

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Frank Lee's avatar

Biden has canceled many permits. He has canceled the Keystone pipeline. He just canceled drilling in the Gulf. It is intellectually dishonest to keep up that lie... you know that the global warming disciples are demanding he do these things... the idiots think that they will save the world by forcing low supply of evil fossil fuels.

Biden supported lock downs. The Biden admin was taking direction from the teachers union.

Biden did support vaccine mandates and masking.

What is the hell are you smoking? Where do you get your news, straight from CNN?

Geesh... it is like you have been living in an alternative facts reality.

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Frank Lee's avatar

Uh... well no. Don't try to rewrite history. Trump cut off talks over the COVID relief bill over Republican opposition to the massive deficit spending and parts of the Democrat demand to keep handing out money to workers for not working.

Then he lost the election and Democrats went hog wild!

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

Man, Biden's inflation really sucks for the British, French, Canadians, Brazilians, Australians, Indians and everyone else on the planet also experiencing inflation and high gas prices right now.

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Frank Lee's avatar

Nowhere near what we are experiencing in the US. And US policies that cause domenstic inflation impacts the inflation of these other countries.

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

K, serious reply: Inflation in Spain is running around the same as the US.

Inflation in the UK, Netherlands, Brazil, Russia and Turkey are all higher than the US.

How did the Biden Covid Relief bill and the Bipartisan Infrastructure bill cause runaway inflation in those other countries?

edit to add link: https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate

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Frank Lee's avatar

I don't know where trading economics gets their data. However, like I said, some counties are so tied to the US economy that it is bringing them down with it. The inflation rate in the UK and Spain was already high before the pandemic. The Netherlands is a surprise.

The problem though with the US, if we were counting inflation like we had in the past, it would by over 14%. It is likely that US inflation is WAY understated by the Biden government while these other countries report it accurately.

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

I hear your keyboard click-clacking away but all I see is "Hurr durr de durr durr hurr!!1!11!"

Might want to get that checked out.

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Liberal Cynic's avatar

One paycheck stat is not sufficiently indicative of a wider non-inequality trend.

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TW Falcon's avatar

Hey, Kevin... it's probably not worth arguing with a social misfit.

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