The original sin with respect to Trump came early on in the 2016 campaign. The entire field of Republican candidates should have pledged to oppose Trump should he win the nomination. But they feared Trump would mount a third party run if they effectively kicked him out of the party. Thus party was put before country, and we've been paying for this betrayal ever since.
The original sin with respect to Trump came early on in the 2016 campaign. The entire field of Republican candidates should have pledged to oppose Trump should he win the nomination. But they feared Trump would mount a third party run if they effectively kicked him out of the party. Thus party was put before country, and we've been paying for this betrayal ever since.
That's tempting but anti-democratic in its own way. What makes all of this so intractable is that a critical mass of voters WANT this stuff. They hate D's so much that they're willing to change their form of government, and toss out the American experiment, to punish and deny them power.
I don't know. Not much different than what ranked choice voting may well have done. Which is basically adding in the factor of voting against who you hate.
Also, the concept of something being more anti-democratic than a primary system coupled with our first past the post and electoral college system calcifying two (and only two) parties as the only realistic choices...well, it is certainly possible, but I'm not sure candidates using their free speech to declare someone unacceptable passes the bar automatically.
Well, maybe we're not screwed. I mean, no one wants to risk having Trump run again, but if you had a 100% guarantee that he'd lose (even after state level hijinks) I think we'd have to take it. And I have to think he is just about their worst chance of winning. Massive anti-trump vote baked in that no one else on the GOP side will have.
So as bad as Trump getting the nomination would be, and as much as no one wants to risk what that could entail (unrest, him winning, etc.), there are a lot of scenarios where things still workout better than a DeSantis getting the nomination. In short: Trump Losing > DeSantis winning.
Thank you! I’ve been trying hard to understand why people think Trump as the candidate in 2024 would be worse than DSantis as the Republican candidate. DeSantis is just as racist, homophobic, vengeful and authoritarian but since he’s more competent and tactful than Trump, he’s capable of enacting really harmful policies.
Would he threaten violence against his opponents if he didn’t get his way? No. But let’s not forget that TRUMP *lost* in 2020 and that was *before* he incited a violent insurrection, stole and refused to return sensitive classified documents that threatened our national security, endorsed bat-shit crazy election deniers and riled up his fan base to threaten and attack poll workers, FBI agents, and other “perceived political enemies” - including his own Vice President and The Senate Minority Leader! If there’s any way that these actions would result in *more* people voting for him…If people actually believe that there are enough people who would vote to have Trump serve another term as President, then it doesn’t actually matter if he’s the candidate or not because that possibility alone would mean that the country is probably beyond the point that it can be saved.
That scenario of Trump Losing > DeSantis Winning just postpones the DeSantis problem. DeSantis and other Trumpy Orbanites are still out there, as is the Trump base. I don't see any with Trump's idiot savant charisma, tho.
Postponing it may be the best we can get for a bit. 4 more years of a democratic president with all that that gets, as well as another rebuke to trumpism isn't without value. Sure, DeSantis might run in 28, and might well win, but maybe we'll have had some softening by them. Maybe some demographics will have further changed by then. As the old joke goes, maybe the horse will learn to sing.
The original sin with respect to Trump came early on in the 2016 campaign. The entire field of Republican candidates should have pledged to oppose Trump should he win the nomination. But they feared Trump would mount a third party run if they effectively kicked him out of the party. Thus party was put before country, and we've been paying for this betrayal ever since.
That's tempting but anti-democratic in its own way. What makes all of this so intractable is that a critical mass of voters WANT this stuff. They hate D's so much that they're willing to change their form of government, and toss out the American experiment, to punish and deny them power.
It certainly isn't democratic to destroy democracy, even if you use the machinery of democracy to do it.
I don't know. Not much different than what ranked choice voting may well have done. Which is basically adding in the factor of voting against who you hate.
Also, the concept of something being more anti-democratic than a primary system coupled with our first past the post and electoral college system calcifying two (and only two) parties as the only realistic choices...well, it is certainly possible, but I'm not sure candidates using their free speech to declare someone unacceptable passes the bar automatically.
And they'll run into the same third party issue in 2024, which is why they're so screwed. And why we're all screwed.
Well, maybe we're not screwed. I mean, no one wants to risk having Trump run again, but if you had a 100% guarantee that he'd lose (even after state level hijinks) I think we'd have to take it. And I have to think he is just about their worst chance of winning. Massive anti-trump vote baked in that no one else on the GOP side will have.
So as bad as Trump getting the nomination would be, and as much as no one wants to risk what that could entail (unrest, him winning, etc.), there are a lot of scenarios where things still workout better than a DeSantis getting the nomination. In short: Trump Losing > DeSantis winning.
Thank you! I’ve been trying hard to understand why people think Trump as the candidate in 2024 would be worse than DSantis as the Republican candidate. DeSantis is just as racist, homophobic, vengeful and authoritarian but since he’s more competent and tactful than Trump, he’s capable of enacting really harmful policies.
Would he threaten violence against his opponents if he didn’t get his way? No. But let’s not forget that TRUMP *lost* in 2020 and that was *before* he incited a violent insurrection, stole and refused to return sensitive classified documents that threatened our national security, endorsed bat-shit crazy election deniers and riled up his fan base to threaten and attack poll workers, FBI agents, and other “perceived political enemies” - including his own Vice President and The Senate Minority Leader! If there’s any way that these actions would result in *more* people voting for him…If people actually believe that there are enough people who would vote to have Trump serve another term as President, then it doesn’t actually matter if he’s the candidate or not because that possibility alone would mean that the country is probably beyond the point that it can be saved.
That scenario of Trump Losing > DeSantis Winning just postpones the DeSantis problem. DeSantis and other Trumpy Orbanites are still out there, as is the Trump base. I don't see any with Trump's idiot savant charisma, tho.
Postponing it may be the best we can get for a bit. 4 more years of a democratic president with all that that gets, as well as another rebuke to trumpism isn't without value. Sure, DeSantis might run in 28, and might well win, but maybe we'll have had some softening by them. Maybe some demographics will have further changed by then. As the old joke goes, maybe the horse will learn to sing.