54 Comments

Reading the Sargent article has me asking this question : do we believe Trump's most ardent followers have any faith in our institutions regardless?

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I appreciate the balanced view on 14A as opposed to the self-deterrence that other Bulwarkers espoused in the last few days. It's a legitimate fight to have - a 14A DSQ in a swing state, if successful, could give the fake elector crowd a little taste of their own Madison.

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On the fourteenth amendment I urge everyone that has facebook too look for a post from Cree Hadegree, GA Attorney. It outlines a GA case in 2012 that tried to keep Obama off the ballot on the grounds he wasn't a citizen. It is an illuminating read.

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When shutting down the federal government is a desired outcome for a not small cohort of the GOP base, government shutdowns are not only likely but probable.

It is shameful what the GOP has become.

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A couple points. The senate is the second worst institution in DC after SCROTUS. It should be abolished. It's antidemocratic to the core of its rotten stinking heart. Second, if the 14th amendment doesn't apply to tangeranus and the 140 members of the house and the dozen or so members of the senate that engaged in treason then it's hard to see why it even exists.

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We need the Bulwark and honest media to continue to sell the 14th amendment disqualifications of Trump and the 120+ Green Bay Sweep in Congress. Just because Murdoch won't admit there was an insurrection is not enough to let it ride. Once the media had Edward Murrow - now we have entertainers.

The DOJ should also be pushing to remove the insurrectionists in Congress - they were asleep at the wheel when Ron Johnson ran last in Wisconsin. Issue them all target letters now. We know they plan to try to impeach Biden (because Congress has no interest in fixing the border or immigration) and the Freedom Caucus (the caucus of crazies) wants to stop funding the DOJ ( so they and Trump don't get prosecuted). JUST DO IT. Let's end the entertainment

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It’sa mess because Mitch isn’t doing his job

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Somehow we need the people to read and understand Project 2025

and EXACTLY what that will

mean to this country on a very wide basis, if Trump or

another republican is voted

President.

As for the 14th Amendment. 4 indictments. 91 felonies charged. It will only take conviction of 1.

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founding

The Chaos Caucus does not give a rat's a-- about shutting down the FAA, but their base in the farm states could have a different view of ending the Farm Bill through R inaction. That might be the lever to pull to get a CR for a while.

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The average American barely gets a weekend off, much less a month off. It’s another sign of how out of touch Congress is with the lives of its constituents. But regarding the 14th amendment - I am frankly tired of caring about what Trump voters think about anything. That’s why it’s so important to make sure he doesn’t succeed in getting elected in 2024. One of the reasons for prosecuting all those J6 people is to drive home the point that when they don’t get their way, they can’t change the result by violence.

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founding

The Senate passed all 12 appropriations bills out of committee before their recess.

First time that's been done in years.

Democrats are not the problem.

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Realistically, - - owing to the degree of public exposure of the 14th Amendment, it is inevitable that someone will sue on that basis. Then the fat will be in the fire! Alan, you appear to be correct except that, should the Supreme Court find against Trump, - - you underestimate the teeth-clenched fury that will erupt among the MAGAs, as stoked by DJT himself. But, like the costs of a war, those deaths, etc must be met by a strong Democracy, in service of it's own continuation.

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What a surprise: the gop is overrun by nihilists and so rather than govern it does nihilistic things.

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Sep 5, 2023·edited Sep 5, 2023

If you think things are a mess now, just think how it might go if Trump or a Trump-Republican is elected, Schedule F is implemented, the "Deep State" is emasculated by firing all those senior career civil servants, and they are replaced by loyal MAGA operatives.

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It seems to me that, unlike the qualification of being 35 or a natural citizen, this (dis)qualification needs to answer two questions before it can work: Was it an insurrection/rebellion and did trump "engage" in it. Are the advocates of unilateral state action sure they will be happy with how the Extremes answer this? I can see the originalists saying rebellion requires riding a horse into battle wielding a bayonet.

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Regarding the 14th Amendment, it appears that there will be legal challenges that will get to courts. Thus, the courts will have to consider the arguments. I don't believe that the courts can simply throw out such cases on the basis of standing because presumably any registered voter would have standing to determine who is and who is not qualified to be on a ballot as a candidate for president.

Assuming that courts must address the issues on which qualification is determined, the courts must determine that an insurrection has occurred and that Trump participated in or aided such insurrection.

If the courts determine that, for purposes of the 14th Amendment, no insurrection occurred, think of how damaging such a holding would be. Trump and his allies will be emboldened to push greater violence having the courts determine that the violence and the attack on the Capitol on January 6 was not an insurrection.

Similarly, if the courts determine that January 6 was an insurrection, but that Trump did not participate and did not aid the insurrection, such a holding would embolden Trump and his allies to go even further in trying to overturn an election loss in 2024 having the courts determine that the actions of Trump and his allies in the time leading up to January 6 was not participating in or aiding the insurrection.

If Trump's qualifications under the 14th Amendment to be President is presented to the courts, the courts cannot abrogate their responsibilities to decide matters properly brought before them. While the politics of such cases may be grist for numerous pundits and podcasts, nonetheless the courts must ultimately enter their opinions and if the courts determine that Trump is disqualified, it doesn't matter what his supporters believe.

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