All fine but it sounds like something based on words - so like the world as understood by Plato or Aristotle. I suggest looking at the real systems that exist. Like an engineer would look at a manufacturing process. So.. can we have ungraded classrooms? Sure. Can we allow home schooling - ok. But I see the entire modern world as schooled and divided up - and has been so for more than a century.
It has not been so “for more than a century” for most people. It was only in the 1950’s that the majority of Americans attended school full-time until the age of 16.
And even then, a century in middle America is an infinitesimal section of the human population through history.
I am not offering a policy prescription for solving a problem. I’m not even claiming that there IS a problem. It’s an observation that we have no idea what we’ve done, and might benefit from taking a look.
We need to recognize and acknowledge how remarkably unusual and new this social order is, and ask if there have been unintended negative consequences. If there have, we need to consider whether there are ways to ameliorate those consequences without sacrificing whatever benefits have been gained.
Sure we have no idea but let's not play word games. So while everyone may not have attended school in the form you mention - in fact schooling was widespread in the North and West at least, so even folks like Larry Doby (Paterson NJ) attended H.S. And we see schooling among urban folks in places as different at Japan and Germany or California and Massachusetts.
At 70, I have watched all manner of arguments and so forth. But I don't see it useful to speculate about the impossible. I prefer to look to smaller ideas. So i am interested in ideas like how (supposedly) in Japan the classroom is set up to bring all along together - whereas our system let the better students leave the slow pokes behind.
I also remember "modern math" and "Pscc Chemistry and Physics" in the mid 1960s.
Widespread, but in a very different form, and far from universal. Kids were doing half-days in one-room schoolhouses. The warehousing in single-age cohorts didn’t become widespread, much less universal, until very, very recently.
And it also has to be understood in the context of the fragmentation of the extended family and the uprooting of the local communities. Not only are we warehousing kids in single-age cohorts for uniquely extended podridos of time, but when they’re not warehoused they’re more isolated from integrated communities than at any time in history before.
The demand for mobile labor has pushed us to move and live far from our family and community roots. We’re well into the third or fourth generation, but it’s become much more universal than it was even 50 years ago.
So kids leave school and come home to a tiny nuclear family. At most they see grandma a few times a year. They never care for a crying baby. They never go to work or go fishing with their older cousins. They never spend days at a time with an ailing grandparent. They’re not intimate with the aridity and phases of life.
I would posit that leaves young adults unmoored un profound ways. Young men, in particular, are the principal sources of violence in our communities. Would a stronger mooring in the community ameliorate that? Would social cohesion help us to live better with our neighbors? And is this social experiment contributing to the problem?
I don’t know. But it should be studied. Maybe it’s nothing. But we ought to try to find out.
Well again, I think expending intellectual effort to somehow disagree re schooling is much ago about little. Or the classroom in "Blue Angel" would seem strange to us, but it does not. Same with the little rascals.
Did industrialization harm us? No doubt. But that ship has sailed.
Social cohesion is great. Can we go back? I don't see it. But if you do, please point the way.
(1) Labor policy that shifts the balance back toward labor and away from capital so that families can remain rooted in one place. Unions? Maybe. But something stronger and more vital may be needed.
(2) Prioritization of resources to public education so that schools can be re-imagined as vital social learning communities, rather than warehouses.
Is this needed? We need to ask the question.
Will it work? We need to identify the problem and diagnose its cause.
Can it be done? Someone smarter than me will have to answer that.
All fine but it sounds like something based on words - so like the world as understood by Plato or Aristotle. I suggest looking at the real systems that exist. Like an engineer would look at a manufacturing process. So.. can we have ungraded classrooms? Sure. Can we allow home schooling - ok. But I see the entire modern world as schooled and divided up - and has been so for more than a century.
It has not been so “for more than a century” for most people. It was only in the 1950’s that the majority of Americans attended school full-time until the age of 16.
And even then, a century in middle America is an infinitesimal section of the human population through history.
I am not offering a policy prescription for solving a problem. I’m not even claiming that there IS a problem. It’s an observation that we have no idea what we’ve done, and might benefit from taking a look.
We need to recognize and acknowledge how remarkably unusual and new this social order is, and ask if there have been unintended negative consequences. If there have, we need to consider whether there are ways to ameliorate those consequences without sacrificing whatever benefits have been gained.
But until we look, we’ll never know.
Sure we have no idea but let's not play word games. So while everyone may not have attended school in the form you mention - in fact schooling was widespread in the North and West at least, so even folks like Larry Doby (Paterson NJ) attended H.S. And we see schooling among urban folks in places as different at Japan and Germany or California and Massachusetts.
At 70, I have watched all manner of arguments and so forth. But I don't see it useful to speculate about the impossible. I prefer to look to smaller ideas. So i am interested in ideas like how (supposedly) in Japan the classroom is set up to bring all along together - whereas our system let the better students leave the slow pokes behind.
I also remember "modern math" and "Pscc Chemistry and Physics" in the mid 1960s.
Widespread, but in a very different form, and far from universal. Kids were doing half-days in one-room schoolhouses. The warehousing in single-age cohorts didn’t become widespread, much less universal, until very, very recently.
And it also has to be understood in the context of the fragmentation of the extended family and the uprooting of the local communities. Not only are we warehousing kids in single-age cohorts for uniquely extended podridos of time, but when they’re not warehoused they’re more isolated from integrated communities than at any time in history before.
The demand for mobile labor has pushed us to move and live far from our family and community roots. We’re well into the third or fourth generation, but it’s become much more universal than it was even 50 years ago.
So kids leave school and come home to a tiny nuclear family. At most they see grandma a few times a year. They never care for a crying baby. They never go to work or go fishing with their older cousins. They never spend days at a time with an ailing grandparent. They’re not intimate with the aridity and phases of life.
I would posit that leaves young adults unmoored un profound ways. Young men, in particular, are the principal sources of violence in our communities. Would a stronger mooring in the community ameliorate that? Would social cohesion help us to live better with our neighbors? And is this social experiment contributing to the problem?
I don’t know. But it should be studied. Maybe it’s nothing. But we ought to try to find out.
Well again, I think expending intellectual effort to somehow disagree re schooling is much ago about little. Or the classroom in "Blue Angel" would seem strange to us, but it does not. Same with the little rascals.
Did industrialization harm us? No doubt. But that ship has sailed.
Social cohesion is great. Can we go back? I don't see it. But if you do, please point the way.
(1) Labor policy that shifts the balance back toward labor and away from capital so that families can remain rooted in one place. Unions? Maybe. But something stronger and more vital may be needed.
(2) Prioritization of resources to public education so that schools can be re-imagined as vital social learning communities, rather than warehouses.
Is this needed? We need to ask the question.
Will it work? We need to identify the problem and diagnose its cause.
Can it be done? Someone smarter than me will have to answer that.