I can relate a bit to the challenges of “coming back”, although not from actual combat. My daughter lived on a military base for four years in South Korea. It was only supposed to be three years but they requested an extension because . . . They didn’t want to come back, to school shootings, Trump fouling the White House, crime, people a…
I can relate a bit to the challenges of “coming back”, although not from actual combat. My daughter lived on a military base for four years in South Korea. It was only supposed to be three years but they requested an extension because . . . They didn’t want to come back, to school shootings, Trump fouling the White House, crime, people at each others’ throats, etc.
A bizarre situation, to be serving a country that you’d prefer not to live in, once you experience another existence, with less strife.
"A million years?” persisted the jeering old man with keen, sadistic zest. “A half million? The frog is almost five hundred million years old. Could you really say with much certainty that America, with all its strength and prosperity, with its fighting man that is second to none, and with its standard of living that is the highest in the world, will last as long as… the frog?”
Actually the whole conversation, but that part works here.
Combat or not, the communal isolation is felt across all service members. That's why you don't see as much of a delta between the suicide rates of combat veterans versus non-combat veterans. Everyone in uniform kind of experiences some commonalities:
- Your individuality is broken down in recruit training and you're built back up as part of a team that puts the team before its component individuals
- You get immersed in this "team over self" environment for four years or more
- You return to a society that celebrates the individual and sees thinking about the team (Team America) collectively as "communism" or "socialism" or "wokeism"
- You have lost both the community you left before serving *and* the community you served with and now feel alone and isolated and different from everyone else around you
^I call this dynamic the "losing home, losing self" dynamic, because that's the most concise way I could describe the way it feels in just four words or so. It's also why I want to focus my current/future writings on this sort of thing rather than combat experience because we so often focus on the trauma of combat while ignoring all the rest of it that is probably equally traumatic or even more so than the combat itself. At least, for me it felt that way, and I saw a fair amount of death and hardship during the civil war years of Iraq when casualty rates peaked. That's why I empathize a lot with the non-combat folks. We're all equally unprepared for this "transition" stuff that veterans/active duty tend to focus a lot less on compared to combat experience. It's a different "shell shock" of its own kind.
Nothing against Travis or the content of these posts, but I have said and will continue to say that my military experience(s) during my 30 year career was/were different than his. Travis is well aware of this and I'm only noting this on this thread to point this out that we all had our military career paths that were defined by which branch of service we chose, the military occupation/job we did, the Commands/Commanders we served under, the era we served and a million other things including who we are and how we respond to the various situations...so there are just a lot of factors involved preventing us from all having the exact same experiences and feelings about it.
I will add that there are far too many service member suicides and I was also appalled by the number of sexual assaults that were happening as well. It's bad enough fighting an enemy but when the enemy are in your own ranks...that's even worse.
Bravo, Travis, on your book endeavor and you can count me in on buying a copy and reading it.
All fair points. I've also served as a naval officer for five years, so I've seen what the non-ground combat stuff looks like in addition to the enlisted/officer differences. I'll let you know when I get a publisher and what not.
I think I asked you this before, Travis, but I can't recall. Did you ever read "Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging" by Sebastian Junger? One of my favorite books. And very apropos to your writing.
I predict you will find it interesting. I might read it again; it’s been a long time. It explains a lot of unexplored human needs and behaviors, past and present. It might even explain MAGAs - the need to belong to something bigger than yourself. That’s one reason I support the idea of compulsory national service; too many people have an emptiness that could be filled to the benefit of everyone and the country.
I can relate a bit to the challenges of “coming back”, although not from actual combat. My daughter lived on a military base for four years in South Korea. It was only supposed to be three years but they requested an extension because . . . They didn’t want to come back, to school shootings, Trump fouling the White House, crime, people at each others’ throats, etc.
A bizarre situation, to be serving a country that you’d prefer not to live in, once you experience another existence, with less strife.
Yes, GG, it is a very sad state of affairs to be living now in the country that is supposed to be the "Shining city on the hill."
Maybe there’s a bit of confession in my despair; I arrogantly assumed we would always hold steady.
Reminds me a bit of this passage from Catch-22:
"A million years?” persisted the jeering old man with keen, sadistic zest. “A half million? The frog is almost five hundred million years old. Could you really say with much certainty that America, with all its strength and prosperity, with its fighting man that is second to none, and with its standard of living that is the highest in the world, will last as long as… the frog?”
Actually the whole conversation, but that part works here.
Yup, that’s apropos. I remember my first trip to Europe, and realizing how the term “old” is situational. Americans do have irrational hubris.
Combat or not, the communal isolation is felt across all service members. That's why you don't see as much of a delta between the suicide rates of combat veterans versus non-combat veterans. Everyone in uniform kind of experiences some commonalities:
- Your individuality is broken down in recruit training and you're built back up as part of a team that puts the team before its component individuals
- You get immersed in this "team over self" environment for four years or more
- You return to a society that celebrates the individual and sees thinking about the team (Team America) collectively as "communism" or "socialism" or "wokeism"
- You have lost both the community you left before serving *and* the community you served with and now feel alone and isolated and different from everyone else around you
^I call this dynamic the "losing home, losing self" dynamic, because that's the most concise way I could describe the way it feels in just four words or so. It's also why I want to focus my current/future writings on this sort of thing rather than combat experience because we so often focus on the trauma of combat while ignoring all the rest of it that is probably equally traumatic or even more so than the combat itself. At least, for me it felt that way, and I saw a fair amount of death and hardship during the civil war years of Iraq when casualty rates peaked. That's why I empathize a lot with the non-combat folks. We're all equally unprepared for this "transition" stuff that veterans/active duty tend to focus a lot less on compared to combat experience. It's a different "shell shock" of its own kind.
Nothing against Travis or the content of these posts, but I have said and will continue to say that my military experience(s) during my 30 year career was/were different than his. Travis is well aware of this and I'm only noting this on this thread to point this out that we all had our military career paths that were defined by which branch of service we chose, the military occupation/job we did, the Commands/Commanders we served under, the era we served and a million other things including who we are and how we respond to the various situations...so there are just a lot of factors involved preventing us from all having the exact same experiences and feelings about it.
I will add that there are far too many service member suicides and I was also appalled by the number of sexual assaults that were happening as well. It's bad enough fighting an enemy but when the enemy are in your own ranks...that's even worse.
Bravo, Travis, on your book endeavor and you can count me in on buying a copy and reading it.
All fair points. I've also served as a naval officer for five years, so I've seen what the non-ground combat stuff looks like in addition to the enlisted/officer differences. I'll let you know when I get a publisher and what not.
I think I asked you this before, Travis, but I can't recall. Did you ever read "Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging" by Sebastian Junger? One of my favorite books. And very apropos to your writing.
I plan on reading that based upon your recommendation. Thanks.
I predict you will find it interesting. I might read it again; it’s been a long time. It explains a lot of unexplored human needs and behaviors, past and present. It might even explain MAGAs - the need to belong to something bigger than yourself. That’s one reason I support the idea of compulsory national service; too many people have an emptiness that could be filled to the benefit of everyone and the country.
I've read and watched a lot of Junger's work, including listening to "Tribe" on audio. I love his stuff.