I’d say that, for the most part, the people voting for Trump are cultists because that’s the only explanation for overlooking what everyone here knows. There’s no point in trying to change their minds.
So, if he wins it’s because a majority of the country has joined a cult. I don’t believe that’s going to happen.
One advantage the right wing has over friends of liberalism: message discipline.
Perhaps the Bulwark can assemble talking points for converting/deprogramming the people some of their principals helped radicalize against democracy...
You are not going to get message discipline out of Democrats; by nature, we tend to fight amongst ourselves. Biden's position on the Israel-Gaza War is a perfect example. It is not supported by huge percentages of key Democratic constituencies. Yet Biden persists; this is the one place where Biden's age does him in, because he believes that getting high approval from Republicans and right-leaning independents will help him. Maybe in the 1990s, but not anymore.
Now, there are fights going on between key constituencies and this is the direct cause of Biden's dropping poll numbers.
You would think illegally having and disseminating top secret documents would enrage patriotic Americans but, 1) they don't believe it because Fox News and Tucker Carlson say it's not true, and/or they feel if he does it, it's okay by them. Because they are not really patriots.
Indeed. On the topic of fake patriotism: People in my orbit liked to wish me a happy Veterans Day or whatever. “Thank you for your service,” or some shirt. I use the past tense, at least for some, because I started responding along the lines of:
“You can thank me by reflecting on what you are willing to do--what sacrifices are you willing to make--for the good of our country?”
To Trump voters, past and perhaps future, the moral heart of their movement is that it is super-patriotic. The most powerful fact that I know of to deflate that belief is that Trump privately considers our war dead "losers" and "suckers." This fact needs to be heard dozens of times by every voter, along with the fact that the source of this information is Trump's former chief-of-staff, a retired Marine Corp General who lost a son in combat. So what can we do? Disseminate the fact that the leader of a nationalistic, flag-waving (and hugging), America First political movement is a fake patriot as widely as possible. Whether by one-on-one contact, or in any forum that one can think of, spread this mind-boggling fact.
I believe there are people that are reachable and people who are not. It doesn’t hurt to keep it out there, tho.
I believe just showcasing Trump’s own cognitive decline is probably the most effective message to swingy voters. I know Meidas Touch and Lincoln Project and RAP are good about that.
Not really the Bulwark's niche, though it would be nice if they did. I wish there was a Dem politician willing to confront this head on rather than simply promising business as usual. I would give everything I have to give to that candidate.
This is the question I ask myself after reading many of these Bulwark posts. Some tips on action that might make a difference would lessen the feeling of powerlessness and dread.
Yes, Vote Save America and Hopium Chronicles are really good projects. Helping at the state level might be the most cost-effective play right now because many races have no Dem challenger or the Dem is severely underfunded (see Pepperspectives on Substack).
Good advice. One thing I’ve quit doing is small donations. My email and text functions are now completely broken because of a tsunami of unwanted political requests after a few small donations. I told ACT BLUE that they should consider a general fund, managed by strategists to target the most important races. I’d gladly give to that as long as they wouldn’t divulge my contact information.
I hear you re: the tsunami of texts. Sometimes I’ve missed something important buried among political messages. It might be worth considering using a dedicated email address for political communications.
You’re right about separate email,accounts. I actually have three; one was supposed to be dedicated to retail - same issue, too much junk proliferated. But I got lazy about maintaining them consistently. That’s on me; now that the situation has worsened, I should try again! The texts are the worst violation because texts feel like my inner sanctum for important communication. Act Blue did remove my phone number from my account at my request and that has helped with the text solicitations, but it’s never going to go away, I’m afraid. There has to be a better way; ideally that would mean getting money out of politics. Dreaming.
Yeah, kinda hoping Charlie and/or JVL will spend the weekend formulating a plan beyond links to people telling me the end is near.
I support Bulwark and others who are righteous in standing against Trumpism. I write letters to my local paper. I work elections and financially support non-MAGA candidates.
Demolishing my peace of mind doesn’t seem like that’s going to help.
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a reader make a request like this; they've all fallen on deaf ears, best I can tell. The daily beatings continue, with no improvement in morale.
Commenters with expertise have highlighted problems with analyses; and nearly all here understand (and many have pointed out) that this far out from the presidential election, many Americans just aren't thinking about it yet. Very little seems to be taken in and addressed in ways readers can see. Instead, we get increasingly hypberbolic pieces like this.
And that's why I canceled my subscription a few months back. I'm unwilling to financially support the messages being broadcast by the two daily columns here ("TFG bad, but OMFG Biden *old*"; doomcasting; hyperfocus on the negative polls for Biden even after they've been shredded for poor methods; etc.). Refunds aren't given for cancellations, so I continue to read, primarily so that I can support comments like these that call out how utterly unhelpful columns like today's are. Not sure how much more I can take of even this level of engagement, though ... not without increased day drinking, at least.
I wrote nothing that leads to any of those conclusions.
The Bulwark obviously provides something of value to its many subs. I originally subbed because of JVL's work. At some point, I realized I was getting more out of the comments than his columns; and along with other issues, that was enough for *me* to decide to move on. The intention of my comment was to empathize with Kevin, and to remind other unhappy subscribers that they can similarly vote with their feet.
I hear you, but isn’t that sort of like shooting the messenger? When I was an Army intelligence officer in Iraq, my job was to wear the “red hat” and give the commander the enemy situation, so that the commander can formulate a plan of attack. In defense of The Bulwark writers Charlie and JVL etc, it not their job to come up with the solution. They’ve been screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 years that there is a problem, but with their limited resources, how are they supposed to be the ones financing the solution?
What they could do, since they read way more than I do and have their fingers on the pulse of all who recognize the threat more than I do, is FIND - you know, research? - who has ANY solutions. There have to be people thinking about this. Somewhere there needs to be a clearinghouse.
There are already some efforts underway:
- Protect Democracy, "a cross-ideological nonprofit group dedicated to defeating the authoritarian threat, building more resilient democratic institutions, and protecting our freedom and liberal democracy". Here is their strategy: https://protectdemocracy.org/about/democracy-playbook/
- Author and lawyer Teri Kanefield has a list of 16 things you can do to strengthen democracy: https://terikanefield.com/things-to-do/. That includes supporting Biden's campaign in the swing states, WI, PA, GA and AZ, and the Senators and House Members in competitive seats. The Senata seats are AZ and OH; the House seats are here: https://www.cookpolitical.com/ratings/house-race-ratings
- Braver Angels, "the nation’s largest cross-partisan, volunteer-led movement to change our politics for the better. Through community gatherings, real debates, and grassroots leaders working together (https://braverangels.org/).
With tremendous respect to The Bulwark: If writers have been screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 years and the needle on the decimal meter hasn't moved, some imagination is needed to figure out how to make the sound audible. Maybe try telling a really scary story. It's worked since the days of Edgar Allan Poe.
Paul Lynch received the 2023 Booker Prize for his novel "Prophet Song," about the terrifying experience of a woman seeking to protect her family in an Ireland descending into totalitarianism. Clearly, The Bulwark won't be publishing fiction. But descent into totalitarianism has happened. It was terrifying at the time.
Rachel Maddow has figured out how to restore the fear factor embedded in actual historical events that has faded with the distancing caused by time and by conventional narrative forms.
We keep shouting "It CAN happen here." How do we *show* it?
Yes, when you're in an acting class, the teacher will say don't tell us you're angry, show it to us. That's drama. We need writers who can dramatize - imagine as you said - what's at stake, what could happen and how it will affect Americans, and actors who can show it.
I don’t really see this as all that analogous. But, okay.
They’re both putting out substacks this morning that basically say, “You people aren’t freaking out enough.”
I’ve been writing letters to my local paper for 11 years criticizing Elise Stefanik and working to see her not be my rep by supporting candidates against her.
So, I’ve been working against Republicans for longer than 8 years. I appreciate what the Bulwark writers are doing, but they’re haranguing the converted.
So, what should I do other than freak out?
I'm sure that most people you know don't like Trump so talking to people won't do any good.
I’d say that, for the most part, the people voting for Trump are cultists because that’s the only explanation for overlooking what everyone here knows. There’s no point in trying to change their minds.
So, if he wins it’s because a majority of the country has joined a cult. I don’t believe that’s going to happen.
From you're mouth to God's ears.
I've read some of the articles in the Bulwark reprinted elsewhere. If they could just write more exposes about Trump, they may get our views there
Good question.
One advantage the right wing has over friends of liberalism: message discipline.
Perhaps the Bulwark can assemble talking points for converting/deprogramming the people some of their principals helped radicalize against democracy...
Just spitballing here.
You are not going to get message discipline out of Democrats; by nature, we tend to fight amongst ourselves. Biden's position on the Israel-Gaza War is a perfect example. It is not supported by huge percentages of key Democratic constituencies. Yet Biden persists; this is the one place where Biden's age does him in, because he believes that getting high approval from Republicans and right-leaning independents will help him. Maybe in the 1990s, but not anymore.
Now, there are fights going on between key constituencies and this is the direct cause of Biden's dropping poll numbers.
You would think illegally having and disseminating top secret documents would enrage patriotic Americans but, 1) they don't believe it because Fox News and Tucker Carlson say it's not true, and/or they feel if he does it, it's okay by them. Because they are not really patriots.
Indeed. On the topic of fake patriotism: People in my orbit liked to wish me a happy Veterans Day or whatever. “Thank you for your service,” or some shirt. I use the past tense, at least for some, because I started responding along the lines of:
“You can thank me by reflecting on what you are willing to do--what sacrifices are you willing to make--for the good of our country?”
Yes, I could see that some people wouldn't respond well. It's really just virtue signaling for many.
To Trump voters, past and perhaps future, the moral heart of their movement is that it is super-patriotic. The most powerful fact that I know of to deflate that belief is that Trump privately considers our war dead "losers" and "suckers." This fact needs to be heard dozens of times by every voter, along with the fact that the source of this information is Trump's former chief-of-staff, a retired Marine Corp General who lost a son in combat. So what can we do? Disseminate the fact that the leader of a nationalistic, flag-waving (and hugging), America First political movement is a fake patriot as widely as possible. Whether by one-on-one contact, or in any forum that one can think of, spread this mind-boggling fact.
I believe there are people that are reachable and people who are not. It doesn’t hurt to keep it out there, tho.
I believe just showcasing Trump’s own cognitive decline is probably the most effective message to swingy voters. I know Meidas Touch and Lincoln Project and RAP are good about that.
Not really the Bulwark's niche, though it would be nice if they did. I wish there was a Dem politician willing to confront this head on rather than simply promising business as usual. I would give everything I have to give to that candidate.
Drugs?
Tried that. Didn’t work. Or maybe they just weren’t strong enough?
Maybe become an election worker and protect your polling place.
Already am. But, thanks.
For other readers. The work is not difficult and only one or two days per year
This is the question I ask myself after reading many of these Bulwark posts. Some tips on action that might make a difference would lessen the feeling of powerlessness and dread.
In the end, unfortunately, there are only three choices. Flee, fight, or hide. Choose one of the three and commit to it. Now.
Oh, and if you're posting on social media, you have not chosen to hide.
Helplessness is a huge stressor. And that’s how I feel, because I don’t have enough disposable money to participate in our money-based campaigns.
I haven’t checked it out myself yet, but the podcast Pod Save America has a spinoff, Vote Save America with action items.
Yes, Vote Save America and Hopium Chronicles are really good projects. Helping at the state level might be the most cost-effective play right now because many races have no Dem challenger or the Dem is severely underfunded (see Pepperspectives on Substack).
Good advice. One thing I’ve quit doing is small donations. My email and text functions are now completely broken because of a tsunami of unwanted political requests after a few small donations. I told ACT BLUE that they should consider a general fund, managed by strategists to target the most important races. I’d gladly give to that as long as they wouldn’t divulge my contact information.
I hear you re: the tsunami of texts. Sometimes I’ve missed something important buried among political messages. It might be worth considering using a dedicated email address for political communications.
You’re right about separate email,accounts. I actually have three; one was supposed to be dedicated to retail - same issue, too much junk proliferated. But I got lazy about maintaining them consistently. That’s on me; now that the situation has worsened, I should try again! The texts are the worst violation because texts feel like my inner sanctum for important communication. Act Blue did remove my phone number from my account at my request and that has helped with the text solicitations, but it’s never going to go away, I’m afraid. There has to be a better way; ideally that would mean getting money out of politics. Dreaming.
Yeah, kinda hoping Charlie and/or JVL will spend the weekend formulating a plan beyond links to people telling me the end is near.
I support Bulwark and others who are righteous in standing against Trumpism. I write letters to my local paper. I work elections and financially support non-MAGA candidates.
Demolishing my peace of mind doesn’t seem like that’s going to help.
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a reader make a request like this; they've all fallen on deaf ears, best I can tell. The daily beatings continue, with no improvement in morale.
Commenters with expertise have highlighted problems with analyses; and nearly all here understand (and many have pointed out) that this far out from the presidential election, many Americans just aren't thinking about it yet. Very little seems to be taken in and addressed in ways readers can see. Instead, we get increasingly hypberbolic pieces like this.
And that's why I canceled my subscription a few months back. I'm unwilling to financially support the messages being broadcast by the two daily columns here ("TFG bad, but OMFG Biden *old*"; doomcasting; hyperfocus on the negative polls for Biden even after they've been shredded for poor methods; etc.). Refunds aren't given for cancellations, so I continue to read, primarily so that I can support comments like these that call out how utterly unhelpful columns like today's are. Not sure how much more I can take of even this level of engagement, though ... not without increased day drinking, at least.
Ok. I guess the Bulwark should just close up shop? Who cares? Something something it doesn’t matter?
I wrote nothing that leads to any of those conclusions.
The Bulwark obviously provides something of value to its many subs. I originally subbed because of JVL's work. At some point, I realized I was getting more out of the comments than his columns; and along with other issues, that was enough for *me* to decide to move on. The intention of my comment was to empathize with Kevin, and to remind other unhappy subscribers that they can similarly vote with their feet.
Whatever. Have a nice life.
Well look at the bright sides: Only Thirteen months till cheap bacon!
Yeah, the price of eggs has already come down.
Give me a nudge when the cheap rum appears, please and thank you!
Someone a few days ago said the price of their favorite vodka was down 40%. I didn't believe them since there were no typos in their post.
Always reliable for a laugh.
I laughed out loud; thank you very much for that!
Sounds like you're already doing your part. Thank you!
I hear you, but isn’t that sort of like shooting the messenger? When I was an Army intelligence officer in Iraq, my job was to wear the “red hat” and give the commander the enemy situation, so that the commander can formulate a plan of attack. In defense of The Bulwark writers Charlie and JVL etc, it not their job to come up with the solution. They’ve been screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 years that there is a problem, but with their limited resources, how are they supposed to be the ones financing the solution?
Finance? Who's calling for $$?
What they could do, since they read way more than I do and have their fingers on the pulse of all who recognize the threat more than I do, is FIND - you know, research? - who has ANY solutions. There have to be people thinking about this. Somewhere there needs to be a clearinghouse.
There are already some efforts underway:
- Protect Democracy, "a cross-ideological nonprofit group dedicated to defeating the authoritarian threat, building more resilient democratic institutions, and protecting our freedom and liberal democracy". Here is their strategy: https://protectdemocracy.org/about/democracy-playbook/
- Author and lawyer Teri Kanefield has a list of 16 things you can do to strengthen democracy: https://terikanefield.com/things-to-do/. That includes supporting Biden's campaign in the swing states, WI, PA, GA and AZ, and the Senators and House Members in competitive seats. The Senata seats are AZ and OH; the House seats are here: https://www.cookpolitical.com/ratings/house-race-ratings
- Braver Angels, "the nation’s largest cross-partisan, volunteer-led movement to change our politics for the better. Through community gatherings, real debates, and grassroots leaders working together (https://braverangels.org/).
Wow. Ok. The Bulwark writers need to do more research. Got it.
With tremendous respect to The Bulwark: If writers have been screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 years and the needle on the decimal meter hasn't moved, some imagination is needed to figure out how to make the sound audible. Maybe try telling a really scary story. It's worked since the days of Edgar Allan Poe.
Paul Lynch received the 2023 Booker Prize for his novel "Prophet Song," about the terrifying experience of a woman seeking to protect her family in an Ireland descending into totalitarianism. Clearly, The Bulwark won't be publishing fiction. But descent into totalitarianism has happened. It was terrifying at the time.
Rachel Maddow has figured out how to restore the fear factor embedded in actual historical events that has faded with the distancing caused by time and by conventional narrative forms.
We keep shouting "It CAN happen here." How do we *show* it?
Yes, when you're in an acting class, the teacher will say don't tell us you're angry, show it to us. That's drama. We need writers who can dramatize - imagine as you said - what's at stake, what could happen and how it will affect Americans, and actors who can show it.
I don’t really see this as all that analogous. But, okay.
They’re both putting out substacks this morning that basically say, “You people aren’t freaking out enough.”
I’ve been writing letters to my local paper for 11 years criticizing Elise Stefanik and working to see her not be my rep by supporting candidates against her.
So, I’ve been working against Republicans for longer than 8 years. I appreciate what the Bulwark writers are doing, but they’re haranguing the converted.
Poor choice of words on my part. I’m not the one who has converted. 🙈
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
Right. I'm already a Bulwark member so what do we do next?