I would like to call out Tim and JVL for suggesting that these kids are not neurotypical. They very well could be, but please don't suggest that they are the way they are because they are neurodivergent. I am neurodivergent, and I very much disagree with these kids' philosophy. Please do not try to place the "Crazy Conservative" hat on all neurodivergent people. A lot of us are nowhere near the world-view expressed by these young people. Thank you!
Just a thought--These people have always been there. There's no real change in their disposition. What's changed is the permission structure. I'm a nearly lifelong white southerner (grew up under Jim Crow) and historian of the American South, and white supremacists and neoconfederates never went away. There's a long tradition of reactionary intellectualism in the South, and I've belonged to societies in which they felt safe to voice their opinions, but while the rest of us would treat them with courtesy, they've always been marginalized. Now they feel that they have power because they think they have Trump or the GOP on their side. They don't care about persuading people, because they think they can bully them. That could get worse--much worse--but it could well reverse as well. Change the permission structure, and it won't change them, but they'll go back in their holes.
just watched the full video, think I discovered the quickest route to pickling your liver-- take a shot every time "Connor" adds a "quite frankly" to one of his statements. bonus if he uses it incorrectly.
as soon as you start reading, and quoting, Nazi philosophy etc, you're in it. What follows is YOUR fault. You can't punch yourself in the face until you're bloody, and then blame the curious crowd gathered around you.
It is so difficult for me to not get personal with the doughy, arrogant, bloated Charlie-Kirk-looking, tittering, jiggling, attention-seeking, impotent, ignorant, anonymous incel in this video, but I won’t. That would be unkind.
Also, Tim, yes the differences among the peoples of America is just a cultural construct. But the culture has changed drastically for young, white men, and not all Americans are okay with such change. For the 14th time, please read up an political psychologist Karen Stenner who studies the authoritarian disposition (https://hopenothate.org.uk/2020/11/01/authoritarianism/), and INVITE HER TO YOUR PODCAST.
I disagree with JVL that it's not about economics. The post-industrial economy has been very bad for young men without college degrees. Read Stenner and she will explain to you that it is about "normative threat."
Thank you, Tim for moving to "what can be done about it?" I've long been frustrated with The Bulwark for informing me profoundly about the MAGA corruption of American souls, but never addressing what is to be done about it. You know, strategy for moving forward.
As a lifelong lib, I completely agree some it is a backlash to the Progressive Left's tactics. Sarah McBride, the first openly transgendered member of Congress, characterizes that as "demand of strict adherence to specific language and policies, potentially creating an environment where individuals feel compelled to adopt a particular rhetorical style or risk being labeled negatively . . . (it creates) a 'binary all-on or all-off option' for people, where there's little room for error in language (leading) to potential allies choosing to disengage rather than risk missteps.
As to what could help, McBride's answer is "a politics of 'grace,' which allows for open conversations and acknowledges the complexities and nuances of both policy and political discourse. She believes that prioritizing a more compassionate and understanding approach can be more effective in winning hearts and minds, combating misinformation, and ultimately achieving positive change" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlbNFsAGFRc).
You two are one version or another of Catholic. "Grace" should not be a foreign concept to you, yes?
I sure wish you would have McBride on to answer your legitimate and honestly inquiring question of what could help.
It's pointless to argue with ideologues. Ideologues have a vision, which doubles as an identity. They endorse premises which may not even be falsifiable.
They're often in love with abstractions and abstracted logic, frequently underpinned by wishful thinking.
You might dissuade an ideologue by cataloging the predictable adverse consequences of his vision, but it's typically impractical to do so until after the fact.
Moreover, ideologies give aggrieved or despondent people hope. Try telling them their hopes are bound to be dashed.
Ideologies, like religions, make the world seem comprehensible and tolerable. They bring a kind of joy to the joyless. It's not surprising that some people look for joy in all the wrong places.
P. S. That applies to Hasan too, who recycled the same progressive garbage about Palestinian Arabs being an oppressed indigenous people, and naturally ignored both the Jews' 3500 year old claim to the land and their right under international law to the entire territory of the former British Mandate (the Arabs having warred against Partition in 1947 to the derogation of any claim they might have had).
Seems the proud “fascist” lost his job as a result of the clip he himself put out. Although idk…I kinda call BS on the whole thing…seems like a scam to get free money to me. 🤷♀️
Obv all race is, at the root, a social construct. Not to be a downer, but it seems like the way to maintain white supremacy is the same way its always worked: Italians and the Irish were made white, and I suspect that if you're a light-skinned Latino or Asian person, you'll be added to "whiteness". So like if you're Han, or you're a member of (some) Venezuelans, or (some) Chileans -prob become White. If you're Thai or, idk, a darker-skinned person from Latin or South America -SOL. Idk, just spitballing..
I came across the Jubilee video in a comment on a Bulwark piece on Sunday, having never heard of it before. I suffered through the entire video, and wow. I am deeply concerned about these young adults who grew up with tr*mp in politics. I know some of these types. Parents were reliably Republican and Fox watchers, now all are (fake) Christian nationalists. I think they are now who they always were, it is just (supposedly) acceptable now. This 30 minute video was perfect for more to see what is happening, so thank you Tim and JVL for doing this.
I would like to call out Tim and JVL for suggesting that these kids are not neurotypical. They very well could be, but please don't suggest that they are the way they are because they are neurodivergent. I am neurodivergent, and I very much disagree with these kids' philosophy. Please do not try to place the "Crazy Conservative" hat on all neurodivergent people. A lot of us are nowhere near the world-view expressed by these young people. Thank you!
Missed a chance w Neil de Grasse Tyson to ask that bro is Melania Trump was a US citizen
Just a thought--These people have always been there. There's no real change in their disposition. What's changed is the permission structure. I'm a nearly lifelong white southerner (grew up under Jim Crow) and historian of the American South, and white supremacists and neoconfederates never went away. There's a long tradition of reactionary intellectualism in the South, and I've belonged to societies in which they felt safe to voice their opinions, but while the rest of us would treat them with courtesy, they've always been marginalized. Now they feel that they have power because they think they have Trump or the GOP on their side. They don't care about persuading people, because they think they can bully them. That could get worse--much worse--but it could well reverse as well. Change the permission structure, and it won't change them, but they'll go back in their holes.
just watched the full video, think I discovered the quickest route to pickling your liver-- take a shot every time "Connor" adds a "quite frankly" to one of his statements. bonus if he uses it incorrectly.
Quite frankly, that first young fellow needs a holiday in Cambodia, as my generation were wont to say.
as soon as you start reading, and quoting, Nazi philosophy etc, you're in it. What follows is YOUR fault. You can't punch yourself in the face until you're bloody, and then blame the curious crowd gathered around you.
It is so difficult for me to not get personal with the doughy, arrogant, bloated Charlie-Kirk-looking, tittering, jiggling, attention-seeking, impotent, ignorant, anonymous incel in this video, but I won’t. That would be unkind.
Also, Tim, yes the differences among the peoples of America is just a cultural construct. But the culture has changed drastically for young, white men, and not all Americans are okay with such change. For the 14th time, please read up an political psychologist Karen Stenner who studies the authoritarian disposition (https://hopenothate.org.uk/2020/11/01/authoritarianism/), and INVITE HER TO YOUR PODCAST.
I disagree with JVL that it's not about economics. The post-industrial economy has been very bad for young men without college degrees. Read Stenner and she will explain to you that it is about "normative threat."
Thank you, Tim for moving to "what can be done about it?" I've long been frustrated with The Bulwark for informing me profoundly about the MAGA corruption of American souls, but never addressing what is to be done about it. You know, strategy for moving forward.
As a lifelong lib, I completely agree some it is a backlash to the Progressive Left's tactics. Sarah McBride, the first openly transgendered member of Congress, characterizes that as "demand of strict adherence to specific language and policies, potentially creating an environment where individuals feel compelled to adopt a particular rhetorical style or risk being labeled negatively . . . (it creates) a 'binary all-on or all-off option' for people, where there's little room for error in language (leading) to potential allies choosing to disengage rather than risk missteps.
As to what could help, McBride's answer is "a politics of 'grace,' which allows for open conversations and acknowledges the complexities and nuances of both policy and political discourse. She believes that prioritizing a more compassionate and understanding approach can be more effective in winning hearts and minds, combating misinformation, and ultimately achieving positive change" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlbNFsAGFRc).
You two are one version or another of Catholic. "Grace" should not be a foreign concept to you, yes?
I sure wish you would have McBride on to answer your legitimate and honestly inquiring question of what could help.
this is just awful. Mehti is wonderful and I hope he comes on the pod to discuss his experience.
These young conservatives are the dark side of social media.
It's pointless to argue with ideologues. Ideologues have a vision, which doubles as an identity. They endorse premises which may not even be falsifiable.
They're often in love with abstractions and abstracted logic, frequently underpinned by wishful thinking.
You might dissuade an ideologue by cataloging the predictable adverse consequences of his vision, but it's typically impractical to do so until after the fact.
Moreover, ideologies give aggrieved or despondent people hope. Try telling them their hopes are bound to be dashed.
Ideologies, like religions, make the world seem comprehensible and tolerable. They bring a kind of joy to the joyless. It's not surprising that some people look for joy in all the wrong places.
P. S. That applies to Hasan too, who recycled the same progressive garbage about Palestinian Arabs being an oppressed indigenous people, and naturally ignored both the Jews' 3500 year old claim to the land and their right under international law to the entire territory of the former British Mandate (the Arabs having warred against Partition in 1947 to the derogation of any claim they might have had).
Are these people supposed to be "smart" maga?
Seems the proud “fascist” lost his job as a result of the clip he himself put out. Although idk…I kinda call BS on the whole thing…seems like a scam to get free money to me. 🤷♀️
https://l.smartnews.com/p-5RywyRaw/YmJQO7
Obv all race is, at the root, a social construct. Not to be a downer, but it seems like the way to maintain white supremacy is the same way its always worked: Italians and the Irish were made white, and I suspect that if you're a light-skinned Latino or Asian person, you'll be added to "whiteness". So like if you're Han, or you're a member of (some) Venezuelans, or (some) Chileans -prob become White. If you're Thai or, idk, a darker-skinned person from Latin or South America -SOL. Idk, just spitballing..
I came across the Jubilee video in a comment on a Bulwark piece on Sunday, having never heard of it before. I suffered through the entire video, and wow. I am deeply concerned about these young adults who grew up with tr*mp in politics. I know some of these types. Parents were reliably Republican and Fox watchers, now all are (fake) Christian nationalists. I think they are now who they always were, it is just (supposedly) acceptable now. This 30 minute video was perfect for more to see what is happening, so thank you Tim and JVL for doing this.