Tim, watched your pod w/ Lovett - who I stopped listening to months ago b/c I find him annoying even tho I'm a Dem. So I have a request: if it fits w/ The Bulwark mission, I'd be very interested to hear why you and Sarah are against student loan forgiveness.
I was very opposed when it was first mentioned, but now I'm not so sure b/c of va…
Tim, watched your pod w/ Lovett - who I stopped listening to months ago b/c I find him annoying even tho I'm a Dem. So I have a request: if it fits w/ The Bulwark mission, I'd be very interested to hear why you and Sarah are against student loan forgiveness.
I was very opposed when it was first mentioned, but now I'm not so sure b/c of various things I've heard: it's for teachers, firefighters, drs. and others in helping professions; and that some of it is simply forcing the lenders to abide by the terms of the loans.
To me, that's a very different scenario from an entitled someone who goofs off for five years at an expensive university, then gets a job which contributes little to society, and thinks he shouldn't have to pay off his debt. What I see in so many young people today is an attitude of "the world owes me" - which sends me right over the edge.
Not to put words in their mouths, but their argument isn't about the morality of doing, it's about the attempt to do it through Executive Order. aka, give a power to a particular president to evade the Constitutional separation of powers to do something good, that means a certain other president would then have that same power to evade the Constitution to do something ill.
Ahhh. Well then, maybe what I'd benefit from is hearing them discuss Executive Orders in general. I know all Presidents do it, and that they sometimes do it b/c it's the only way they can get a particular thing accomplished; but that's about all I know.
It would be interesting to hear what about this one makes it stand out for them. And BTW, I'd like to just put in another plug for The Bulwark and say it's so great to have access to a group of people who discuss serious topics from a non-partisan, intelligent, good-hearted perspective. I don't feel like I have to "brace myself" when listening to them.
It's been awhile, so I might be a bit fuzzy on dates, but I believe they have an in-depth discussion early Sept '22 on The Next Level, back during the initial push for loan forgiveness. And Tim definitely did a Not My Party at that time.
Miller: Here’s the ugly. Okay, y’all, if we want to protect our constitutional democracy, we have to put some respect on the laws and norms. Biden picking a random number out of the air and canceling that much debt for a suspect* class of people is obviously not within the president’s powers without Congress passing a new law. Even Nancy Pelosi and Jen Psaki said so. ...And the Biden administration’s legal rationale for this move—that we’re in some sort of COVID emergency—is preposterous. If we want to protect our system, we can’t give a pass to a president acting like a lawless king, even they have good intentions. Then there’s no leg to stand on when a nefarious president wants to use a fake emergency to put an electric fence and an alligator moat at the border.
* Comes from earlier in the piece -- aka, it's pandering to the Middle Class urbanites not the Working Class, which could be politically troublesome in places like Wisconsin.
from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness by Tim Miller
Tim, watched your pod w/ Lovett - who I stopped listening to months ago b/c I find him annoying even tho I'm a Dem. So I have a request: if it fits w/ The Bulwark mission, I'd be very interested to hear why you and Sarah are against student loan forgiveness.
I was very opposed when it was first mentioned, but now I'm not so sure b/c of various things I've heard: it's for teachers, firefighters, drs. and others in helping professions; and that some of it is simply forcing the lenders to abide by the terms of the loans.
To me, that's a very different scenario from an entitled someone who goofs off for five years at an expensive university, then gets a job which contributes little to society, and thinks he shouldn't have to pay off his debt. What I see in so many young people today is an attitude of "the world owes me" - which sends me right over the edge.
I’d be interested in this as well.
Not to put words in their mouths, but their argument isn't about the morality of doing, it's about the attempt to do it through Executive Order. aka, give a power to a particular president to evade the Constitutional separation of powers to do something good, that means a certain other president would then have that same power to evade the Constitution to do something ill.
I think that is part of it but not all of it. They are FOR using aggressive executive orders on the border for example.
I think they feel that the issue is the price of tuition and forgiving loans with no other policy changes does nothing to solve future problems.
Ahhh. Well then, maybe what I'd benefit from is hearing them discuss Executive Orders in general. I know all Presidents do it, and that they sometimes do it b/c it's the only way they can get a particular thing accomplished; but that's about all I know.
It would be interesting to hear what about this one makes it stand out for them. And BTW, I'd like to just put in another plug for The Bulwark and say it's so great to have access to a group of people who discuss serious topics from a non-partisan, intelligent, good-hearted perspective. I don't feel like I have to "brace myself" when listening to them.
It's been awhile, so I might be a bit fuzzy on dates, but I believe they have an in-depth discussion early Sept '22 on The Next Level, back during the initial push for loan forgiveness. And Tim definitely did a Not My Party at that time.
Miller: Here’s the ugly. Okay, y’all, if we want to protect our constitutional democracy, we have to put some respect on the laws and norms. Biden picking a random number out of the air and canceling that much debt for a suspect* class of people is obviously not within the president’s powers without Congress passing a new law. Even Nancy Pelosi and Jen Psaki said so. ...And the Biden administration’s legal rationale for this move—that we’re in some sort of COVID emergency—is preposterous. If we want to protect our system, we can’t give a pass to a president acting like a lawless king, even they have good intentions. Then there’s no leg to stand on when a nefarious president wants to use a fake emergency to put an electric fence and an alligator moat at the border.
* Comes from earlier in the piece -- aka, it's pandering to the Middle Class urbanites not the Working Class, which could be politically troublesome in places like Wisconsin.
from The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness by Tim Miller
Wow - THANKS so much! I found both the Next Level pod (8-31-22; https://www.thebulwark.com/p/threat-analysis) and the Not My Party column (9-1-22; https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness).
As usual, great discussion and good points made by all. Now I understand.