"a document that argues for the larger principle of freedom from tyrannical governance"
So are we now calling for an armed insurrection against the present regime? Their record of “a long train of abuses and usurpations" beats anything King George III ever thought of doing.
This is my first time commenting on a Morning Shots piece. I don't know which of the three wrote 'the regime change' segment but it sounds like I think Bill Cristal speaks. The comments I read against what is written here remind me of NYT commenters - especially when they don't like something that an op-ed columnist has written. I've made many of those kind of comments myself - especially when having to read NYTs bothsiderism.
My comment on this piece is that I thought it was kind of beautiful. Hypothesizes a little (we all do that). Then it gives credit where credit is due. It closes with a pretty nice history lesson that should make all Americans a little proud. When I read the bleat that Trump sent out, I thought it was one of his more restrained and thoughtful bleats. Trump is not always wrong. In this case, we just want to think he's wrong because we know (at least indirectly) all of the calculations and machinations that went on behind the scenes to make this happen and because Trump did this for Trump. Not for the U.S., not for Israel and not for Iran regime change. Don't like admitting this but, thus far, it has been one of his most (his only?) presidential moments. And while we're at it: Everything Bibi does is for Bibi.
Explain to me how we are different than Germany in the 1930’s. Our economy is far stronger, and our democratic institutions used to be much stronger, but that seems to be all.
For a number of years now, we have been heading toward one party rule. This seems to be driven by both sides, but it has truly been weaponized by the right. Federalist society and Heritage foundation raise your hands. MAGA exemplifies this direction, as we see our President promoting himself endlessly. His hat has become the new symbol of our government, along with jackbooted thugs arresting immigrants and opponents at will.
MAGA has become the symbol of freedom for us to determine that there will be no freedom for you. How far are we from MAGA 45-47 becoming the new flag of our country, like the Swastika or the Red Star. We have already embedded loyalists through out the courts and bureaucracy, and half of Congress seems comfortable forcing representing only their voters rather than the country. Autocracy is just around the corner!
Why didn't we ever think of trying regime change in Iran? This is what the octogenarians need to take a couple steps back. You e tried all these ideas and wrapping them in the flag or nostalgia does not make them better ideas
If you look at Iranian history prior to the Shah, you find that the US did indeed indulge in regime change which resulted in Iran changing from a liberal democracy to what we have now.
It’s some Olympic-level memoryhole’ing to project the values of the American democratic tradition onto a Middle Eastern country in the name of regime change — as if, you know, that failed regime-change war we started 22 years ago and fought for almost a decade over there never happened.
There has never been, nor will ever be, a successful nation — a polity that enjoys success as a nation, not just a bunch of prosperous people living together on a piece of land — that doesn't have a coherent guiding philosophy that birthed it.
That's true if you see the countries that emerged as successful in the decades after WWII and it's true for the countries that fought for independence against Britain and other colonial powers. There has to be a cohesive, widely accepted guiding principle articulated by a widely accepted leader, a hunger that drives everyone together. And this is necessary not sufficient. America had this idea of liberty and the Declaration vs Haiti had the idea of liberty from literal slavery but not enough cohesion and so it's a failed state. India had non-violence and plurality seeped into the people across groups and over millennia vs Pakistan had religious purity at its core, which fell apart as soon as the one guy in charge died, and now it's a bunch of tribal warlords masquerading as a country. Russia had a cohesive guiding philosophy as USSR, but none as Russia. Ukraine didn't have one at "birth" in 1992, but a charismatic leader and a common enemy are helping create one in real time.
Iran doesn't have a cohesive, coherent guiding philosophy, and it doesn't have a charismatic leader. If you remove the little veneer of security that a functioning government provides, you are dooming all 92 million Iranians and the billions of people around them to rule by terrorists and splinter groups for decades to come.
Bill, you say this so eloquently:
"So, in short: The Declaration isn’t just a document memorializing the divorce from Great Britain; it also points forward. It lays out the outline of the new marriage contract to come. That’s why Lincoln was able to say, speaking at Independence Hall on February 22, 1861, that it was the principles of the Declaration that had helped keep the new nation together"
And you're not reading what you just wrote in advocating for regime change in Iran.
Took a break from all the POS bad news and was browsing YouTube. And found . . .
We need a theme song for all of us. I nominate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP808MiJUcM to play at every single protest and remind us we can, need, to change the world.
To put it in perspective as one person said, he was already dying when he sang this.
I have never heard it use to refer to an internal revolution and certainly not the American Revolution. Nor have I heard it in relation to WWII. I have specifically heard analysts state this weekend that this attack is not about regime change, but if it leads to the fall of the regime that wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Moreover context is decisive. Saturday night the US bombed Iran. Then Trump stated that “there are many targets left… but if peace does not come quickly we will go after these other targets”. So Trump has already threatened to increase American involvement in this war.
So Vance stating that the US is not interested in regime change is that despite attacking Iran they do not intend to overthrow the Iranian government.
Trump’s statement suggests he might be willing to do so.
sometimes I am embarassed by some of the people the university I work for lets in, let alone graduate. This boy is as deep as a mud puddle on the sidewalk. He does know how to butt snorkle and worship on his knees...he looks like a juvenile Rob Schneider, with the same disgusting and vulgar personality. thankfully, not one of my former students
The connection between this weekend's bombing with the Declaration of Independence completely eludes me.
While our military does very well in carrying out their given tasks, I don't see "professionalism" attributable to Trump and Hegseth in any of this. The fact Trump boldly lied in his declaration that the threat was "completely obliterated" certainly disproves that contention.
History's rhyming something fierce today but so many aren't hearing it, seems Bill is one of them.
Wow…no. Bill…no…Trump just wants a regime change in Iran. He would probably like to build some hotels there. He doesn’t care about the Declaration of Independence . Not one little bit.
Andrew—-I am still recovering from my surgery…no cancer…looking at the temperature up here in Elise Stefanik territory. Am I suddenly living in Floriduh? Don’t tell me climate change isn’t real! And I didn’t read today. I will try now.
I look forward to seeing the grocery store clerk strung up after Iranian terrorists detonate a nuke on American soil because of Trumps fascism. Just a reminder that the wars that Hitler declared were also to distract from an increasingly untenable economic situation at home and to goose the German economy from the ongoing recession.
Trumps popularity is lower now than Hitlers was then, German recession was only a little worse than ours is now, and you can feel free to ask anyone how Hitler's invasions ended up for Germany. The only thing stupider than suggesting that America won't go down the same road that the Third Reich did is the people who think America might learn from their mistakes and the past mistakes of Germany.
I agree with most of your statement, except for your trust of the assertions from Tulsi. With her being the person reporting the findings from our intelligence operatives, it’s hard to know what the evidence really indicated. The Russians support Iran. Her statements may or may not have been accurate. She may have her own agenda.
The up-and-under from one eyebrow = suuuper serious on that terrorism
"a document that argues for the larger principle of freedom from tyrannical governance"
So are we now calling for an armed insurrection against the present regime? Their record of “a long train of abuses and usurpations" beats anything King George III ever thought of doing.
This is my first time commenting on a Morning Shots piece. I don't know which of the three wrote 'the regime change' segment but it sounds like I think Bill Cristal speaks. The comments I read against what is written here remind me of NYT commenters - especially when they don't like something that an op-ed columnist has written. I've made many of those kind of comments myself - especially when having to read NYTs bothsiderism.
My comment on this piece is that I thought it was kind of beautiful. Hypothesizes a little (we all do that). Then it gives credit where credit is due. It closes with a pretty nice history lesson that should make all Americans a little proud. When I read the bleat that Trump sent out, I thought it was one of his more restrained and thoughtful bleats. Trump is not always wrong. In this case, we just want to think he's wrong because we know (at least indirectly) all of the calculations and machinations that went on behind the scenes to make this happen and because Trump did this for Trump. Not for the U.S., not for Israel and not for Iran regime change. Don't like admitting this but, thus far, it has been one of his most (his only?) presidential moments. And while we're at it: Everything Bibi does is for Bibi.
Explain to me how we are different than Germany in the 1930’s. Our economy is far stronger, and our democratic institutions used to be much stronger, but that seems to be all.
For a number of years now, we have been heading toward one party rule. This seems to be driven by both sides, but it has truly been weaponized by the right. Federalist society and Heritage foundation raise your hands. MAGA exemplifies this direction, as we see our President promoting himself endlessly. His hat has become the new symbol of our government, along with jackbooted thugs arresting immigrants and opponents at will.
MAGA has become the symbol of freedom for us to determine that there will be no freedom for you. How far are we from MAGA 45-47 becoming the new flag of our country, like the Swastika or the Red Star. We have already embedded loyalists through out the courts and bureaucracy, and half of Congress seems comfortable forcing representing only their voters rather than the country. Autocracy is just around the corner!
Why didn't we ever think of trying regime change in Iran? This is what the octogenarians need to take a couple steps back. You e tried all these ideas and wrapping them in the flag or nostalgia does not make them better ideas
If you look at Iranian history prior to the Shah, you find that the US did indeed indulge in regime change which resulted in Iran changing from a liberal democracy to what we have now.
It’s some Olympic-level memoryhole’ing to project the values of the American democratic tradition onto a Middle Eastern country in the name of regime change — as if, you know, that failed regime-change war we started 22 years ago and fought for almost a decade over there never happened.
There has never been, nor will ever be, a successful nation — a polity that enjoys success as a nation, not just a bunch of prosperous people living together on a piece of land — that doesn't have a coherent guiding philosophy that birthed it.
That's true if you see the countries that emerged as successful in the decades after WWII and it's true for the countries that fought for independence against Britain and other colonial powers. There has to be a cohesive, widely accepted guiding principle articulated by a widely accepted leader, a hunger that drives everyone together. And this is necessary not sufficient. America had this idea of liberty and the Declaration vs Haiti had the idea of liberty from literal slavery but not enough cohesion and so it's a failed state. India had non-violence and plurality seeped into the people across groups and over millennia vs Pakistan had religious purity at its core, which fell apart as soon as the one guy in charge died, and now it's a bunch of tribal warlords masquerading as a country. Russia had a cohesive guiding philosophy as USSR, but none as Russia. Ukraine didn't have one at "birth" in 1992, but a charismatic leader and a common enemy are helping create one in real time.
Iran doesn't have a cohesive, coherent guiding philosophy, and it doesn't have a charismatic leader. If you remove the little veneer of security that a functioning government provides, you are dooming all 92 million Iranians and the billions of people around them to rule by terrorists and splinter groups for decades to come.
Bill, you say this so eloquently:
"So, in short: The Declaration isn’t just a document memorializing the divorce from Great Britain; it also points forward. It lays out the outline of the new marriage contract to come. That’s why Lincoln was able to say, speaking at Independence Hall on February 22, 1861, that it was the principles of the Declaration that had helped keep the new nation together"
And you're not reading what you just wrote in advocating for regime change in Iran.
Took a break from all the POS bad news and was browsing YouTube. And found . . .
We need a theme song for all of us. I nominate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP808MiJUcM to play at every single protest and remind us we can, need, to change the world.
To put it in perspective as one person said, he was already dying when he sang this.
I’m surprised Kristal’s piece made in through the editing process.
“Regime change” is commonly used to refer to a foreign power replaces another state’s government with a more friendly one. https://www.britannica.com/topic/regime#ref1207943
I have never heard it use to refer to an internal revolution and certainly not the American Revolution. Nor have I heard it in relation to WWII. I have specifically heard analysts state this weekend that this attack is not about regime change, but if it leads to the fall of the regime that wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Moreover context is decisive. Saturday night the US bombed Iran. Then Trump stated that “there are many targets left… but if peace does not come quickly we will go after these other targets”. So Trump has already threatened to increase American involvement in this war.
So Vance stating that the US is not interested in regime change is that despite attacking Iran they do not intend to overthrow the Iranian government.
Trump’s statement suggests he might be willing to do so.
That’s terrifying.
Cheap shots sounds about right. I can do the eyebrow thing, and I have decades more life experience that that guy. Maybe I should get the job.
sometimes I am embarassed by some of the people the university I work for lets in, let alone graduate. This boy is as deep as a mud puddle on the sidewalk. He does know how to butt snorkle and worship on his knees...he looks like a juvenile Rob Schneider, with the same disgusting and vulgar personality. thankfully, not one of my former students
Thanks to Andrew for bringing us back to earth!
The connection between this weekend's bombing with the Declaration of Independence completely eludes me.
While our military does very well in carrying out their given tasks, I don't see "professionalism" attributable to Trump and Hegseth in any of this. The fact Trump boldly lied in his declaration that the threat was "completely obliterated" certainly disproves that contention.
History's rhyming something fierce today but so many aren't hearing it, seems Bill is one of them.
Wow…no. Bill…no…Trump just wants a regime change in Iran. He would probably like to build some hotels there. He doesn’t care about the Declaration of Independence . Not one little bit.
Andrew—-I am still recovering from my surgery…no cancer…looking at the temperature up here in Elise Stefanik territory. Am I suddenly living in Floriduh? Don’t tell me climate change isn’t real! And I didn’t read today. I will try now.
I look forward to seeing the grocery store clerk strung up after Iranian terrorists detonate a nuke on American soil because of Trumps fascism. Just a reminder that the wars that Hitler declared were also to distract from an increasingly untenable economic situation at home and to goose the German economy from the ongoing recession.
Trumps popularity is lower now than Hitlers was then, German recession was only a little worse than ours is now, and you can feel free to ask anyone how Hitler's invasions ended up for Germany. The only thing stupider than suggesting that America won't go down the same road that the Third Reich did is the people who think America might learn from their mistakes and the past mistakes of Germany.
I agree with most of your statement, except for your trust of the assertions from Tulsi. With her being the person reporting the findings from our intelligence operatives, it’s hard to know what the evidence really indicated. The Russians support Iran. Her statements may or may not have been accurate. She may have her own agenda.