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Will Selber's avatar

All four administrations have dropped the ball. Biden is probably less than others, but his handling of Afghanistan hasn't been deft. I concur on the problems of 9/11-era neocons. I have a working theory: this is a byproduct of the All-Volunteer Force. People just don't have any concept of war anymore because they don't have skin in the game. Just my .02 cents.

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Lee Newberry Jones's avatar

I agree. Could this also contribute to a La k of common purpose? On the other hand, a national military draft has issues.

Would a massive influx of short term (1-2 years) involuntary troops really serve the needs of a modern military?

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Lee Newberry Jones's avatar

lack of common purpose. Apologies for the typo

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Paul Seifert's avatar

All volunteer force or conscription, either way you donтАЩt abuse your fighting men and women the way we did in Afghanistan and Iraq post 9/11. We have the best military in the world and when you go you either go big and get it done or donтАЩt go at all.

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Paul Seifert's avatar

Zero Americans wanted a nation building expedition in Afghanistan and most certainly saw right through the Iraqi WMD bullshit being dumped on them. We should have blown into Afghanistan and killed OBL right there and left.

The consequences of those wars cannot be overstated. As a Reagan Republican I am pissed beyond words at my party.

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Travis's avatar

Even Reagan bailed on Lebanon after the Beirut Bombing and the civil war raged there through the rest of the 80's and into 1990. Funny how we don't count that one as a botched withdrawal that's at least up there with Somalia, if not others.

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Paul Seifert's avatar

As I recall that was a UN peacekeeping mission. I think Reagan wanted nothing to do with it but got talked into it. Somalia was also a UN mission until Clinton expanded the mission, something Sr never wouldтАЩve done.

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Travis's avatar

Obama/Trump/Biden all share blame in this as well--I don't mean to absolve them of any of their own mistakes, and there were many--but they were given a problem that wasn't of their making and so they don't share responsibility for the original sin, which starts with the Bush admin and the pottery barn rule in my estimation (YMMV).

And yes, I've long held the opinion that the end of the draft was going to water down our collective shared experience of war and concentrate it among a small group of peoples. Nixon basically ditched the draft as a way to stomp out the protest movement to buy himself more time in yet another conflict (Vietnam) where we decided that nation-building was in our best interests. Panama and Kuwait were contract force conflicts like the GWoT ones were, but the regime change and nation-building aspects were either not done or kept very limited, and so the conflicts were much shorter and tolerable for the American public's patience meter. Bush senior still lost reelection after deftly handling those two conflicts, which is kind of crazy in retrospect.

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Paul Seifert's avatar

Bush Sr lost because the economy dipped in 1992. And if Perot hadnтАЩt run Bush might have won. HereтАЩs the real questionтАФwhat if Gore beats W and then 9/11 happens?

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Travis's avatar

I know Bush lost over issues not related to ForPol, but it's a little crazy post-GWoT that we ditched a guy who pulled that kind of thing off.

Yea I often wonder the same thing about what a post-9/11 world would have looked like with Gore in place rather than "Bush" (read: Cheney). We'll never know.

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