"...but leadership had to know that nation building wasn’t something Americans would be interested in."
I think they knew this--which should have been enough to not do it--but I think they also worried about a repeat of the post-WWI situation that led to WWII. Germany had to foot the bill for WWI, leaving them impoverished and susceptible…
"...but leadership had to know that nation building wasn’t something Americans would be interested in."
I think they knew this--which should have been enough to not do it--but I think they also worried about a repeat of the post-WWI situation that led to WWII. Germany had to foot the bill for WWI, leaving them impoverished and susceptible to populist autocrats riding "stab in the back" narratives to power. But even then, that's the German people's fault rather than the allied power's fault in my book. People have agency and choices after wars and we can't absolve them of that by blaming ourselves for not supporting them better via nation-building--which can be done from afar rather than through occupation as it was done after WWII via the Marshal Plan. An alternate scenario to imagine is if we had left after capturing Saddam and discovering no chem weapons (besides the American ones we sent him in the 80's) and then just sending money to whoever filled the vacuum via a kind of neo-Marshall Plan.
It’s why I don’t judge Biden to harshly when it comes to Ukraine (beyond that the republicans wouldn’t do shit for Ukraine). I try to listen to a lot of fp podcasts and I always get mad because every analysis goes “what Biden needs to do is to tell the American people what is at stake and that we want Ukraine to win.” I’m always like are you guys fricking nuts? Do you have any idea who votes? They couldn’t point out Ukraine on a map and couldn’t give a shit if it was run by islamists. You really want to tell Americans how much it will cost for how many years? You want a quick NO or a HELL NO.
These very intellectuals really think it’s another time where a president can mold public opinion (shit Roosevelt was an astounding politician who literally had super majorities in both houses and still couldn’t convince anyone to send shit to Britain for 5 years). Obama who was an amazing political figure couldn’t get more than 52% of the vote. We just live in very different times.
If republicans think their voters will go to war in Iran or Taiwan I got a bridge to know where to sell them
Vietnam started off as a funding/advising campaign until the Turner Joy/Maddox. What happens if Russia starts getting desperate if we ramp up weapons deliveries and decides to hit an American-flagged ship delivering the weapons via a submarine-launched torpedo while denying they did it? I've yet to hear anyone in NatSec land talk about that scenario, and it could potentially draw us into that conflict. At best we'd start sending Navy escort vessels alongside the weapons deliveries and then hope that Russia doesn't engage the delivery ships with the escorts in place.
I still don’t get how these people are still giving us opinions on foreign affairs though. When you fuck up as much as they did you got to question their judgement. Have you noticed that everything is a nail to these idiots
"...but leadership had to know that nation building wasn’t something Americans would be interested in."
I think they knew this--which should have been enough to not do it--but I think they also worried about a repeat of the post-WWI situation that led to WWII. Germany had to foot the bill for WWI, leaving them impoverished and susceptible to populist autocrats riding "stab in the back" narratives to power. But even then, that's the German people's fault rather than the allied power's fault in my book. People have agency and choices after wars and we can't absolve them of that by blaming ourselves for not supporting them better via nation-building--which can be done from afar rather than through occupation as it was done after WWII via the Marshal Plan. An alternate scenario to imagine is if we had left after capturing Saddam and discovering no chem weapons (besides the American ones we sent him in the 80's) and then just sending money to whoever filled the vacuum via a kind of neo-Marshall Plan.
I do too.
It’s why I don’t judge Biden to harshly when it comes to Ukraine (beyond that the republicans wouldn’t do shit for Ukraine). I try to listen to a lot of fp podcasts and I always get mad because every analysis goes “what Biden needs to do is to tell the American people what is at stake and that we want Ukraine to win.” I’m always like are you guys fricking nuts? Do you have any idea who votes? They couldn’t point out Ukraine on a map and couldn’t give a shit if it was run by islamists. You really want to tell Americans how much it will cost for how many years? You want a quick NO or a HELL NO.
These very intellectuals really think it’s another time where a president can mold public opinion (shit Roosevelt was an astounding politician who literally had super majorities in both houses and still couldn’t convince anyone to send shit to Britain for 5 years). Obama who was an amazing political figure couldn’t get more than 52% of the vote. We just live in very different times.
If republicans think their voters will go to war in Iran or Taiwan I got a bridge to know where to sell them
Vietnam started off as a funding/advising campaign until the Turner Joy/Maddox. What happens if Russia starts getting desperate if we ramp up weapons deliveries and decides to hit an American-flagged ship delivering the weapons via a submarine-launched torpedo while denying they did it? I've yet to hear anyone in NatSec land talk about that scenario, and it could potentially draw us into that conflict. At best we'd start sending Navy escort vessels alongside the weapons deliveries and then hope that Russia doesn't engage the delivery ships with the escorts in place.
I still don’t get how these people are still giving us opinions on foreign affairs though. When you fuck up as much as they did you got to question their judgement. Have you noticed that everything is a nail to these idiots