What does it say about core MAGA devotees that questions about the Epstein “files” have turned more of them against Trump than all of the horrible things he has done and said?
Because they don't understand how the federal government works in all its complexity, they accepted Trump's claim that he was fixing it. In contrast they understand sexual crime very well and know there is a lot more to know about Epstein's activities than is publicly available. Epstein didn't party alone, and who partied with him?
I'm afraid there's a simpler and cruder explanation. They love sadomasochism and brutal treatment of children as long as the victims are brown. If you tell them about the horrors that prisoners are enduring at Alligator Auschwitz, they say "Tough luck, that's what they get for breaking our laws." But Epstein's girls were blonde, blue-eyed white victims.
This is a big part of it. The ethnicity, biological sex, and political leanings of victims often determines whether or not they will get sympathy from the American right. It also depends on who the killer is.
Oh yes. It's long been a grim joke that when a photogenic white woman goes missing, it's national news (Lacey Peterson, Natalie Holloway, the "runaway bride" case etc.). One comedian proposed a new station called WWWA (for "Where the White Women At?") that would cover these stories 24/7. But as we all know, indigenous women disappear from reservations all the time and we never hear about them.
Isn’t there more than a whiff of antisemitism to it as well? Epstein was Jewish and luring young ‘Christian girls’ into prostitution for his pleasure. They always go after the minorities and or gays for trafficking in underage children— see Kilmer Abrego Garcia.
That bears no resemblance at all to what I wrote. I suspect a great many Republicans and Trump supporters are disturbed by what they see. But I also have seen social media posts in which descriptions of the sufferings in ICE detention get laugh-emojis and thumbs-up symbols in the comment thread, with comments like "They crossed the border illegally, it's their fault." Check out a social media feed yourself and see the number of people laughing as they wear "Alligator Alcatraz" shirts. Including, as you are well aware, members of his Cabinet. There are a great many people besides me who find that mentality repugnant, but members of Trump's core base do resort to that kind of logic to excuse the vicious tactics of their leader.
Maybe the same thing it said about Roman Catholics not shutting up about the the priest sexual abuse scandal. It took years and the Boston Globe, but a massive global coverup at the lowest and highest levels was finally exposed. Many devoted Catholics walked out the door over this child sexual abuse scandal. MAGA devotees may be no different.
Give the Boston Phoenix credit for getting there before the Globe. It's the same thing that happened with George Santos. A small, local paper exposed his lies during his campaign but everyone ignored it until after the election, because who cares about a minor Congressional race in a small district? Then the NY Times discovered that, wow, this guy's whole career is based on lies and got a Pulitzer for belatedly noticing what they could have read in the local paper.
Exactly, Sue. Amping this story should be very much in the Press's wheelhouse. Wired is doing some good on it but the rest of the MainStreamMedia should be all over it. MAybe itt says something that they're not.
So the first thing you have to realize is most people don’t read primary news, they get their news through other people who watch the news and further filter it.
The second is that most people don’t seek out “political” news. Which means they seek out non political sources like Joe Rogan etc. Epstien is in a sense non political. Pedos being bad isn’t political it’s basically just a thing we all agree on, which can cause this bit to slip through.
Finally, most people don’t think things are happening unless it happens to them or theirs. Tell me, with the exception of maybe the ACA, if you didn’t read or watch news would you know if team red or blue was in the White House? Probabbly not. Which leads to “uniparty” talk.
Basically, because they see no difference between administrations in their own personal lives they tune out “OMG ADMIN DOING XYZ BAD THING” because the feds are always doing something, but it almost never trickles down to impact the individual voter so who cares
I would bet a very large sum of money that the same MAGA people who are obsessed with the Epstein files and were alive were also obsessed with the Monica Lewinsky affair and are still convinced the Clinton's murdered Vince Foster.
Why didn't Trump anticipate that there was damning information about him in the Epstein Files? He's never been that dumb before! He had years to think about it. If I had been on the plane to Epstein's island, I would never mention Epstein again for the rest of my life.
Riding the tiger. He thought the Epstein thing would be more advantageous to him as a political weapon against dems than as a personal political weakness for himself--and for a long time that *was* the case. What changed is that dems are finally starting to get off of their high road to nowhere and are playing in the mud for a change. Back when they weren't willing to do that Trump *could* use this issue as a one-way bludgeon. Now that dems are starting to find their sea legs while playing in the mud Trump suddenly finds himself on the business end of his own conspiracy theories, which is very bad for him considering how much of his support comes from conspiracy theorists who are quickly becoming disillusioned.
Dems should keep this up. They should point out how Trump has done *absolutely nothing* about the "deep state satanic cabals" supposedly cannibalizing children for adrenochrome--and no arrests of anyone who helped "steal" the 2020 elections either. If dems keep calling his bluff on conspiracy theories it forces a wedge right down the middle of MAGA's voter coalition between those who only got into MAGA politics *because* of the conspiracy theories and the ethnonationalists who maximally support Trump over his immigration policies. If MAGA isn't delivering on conspiracy theory campaign promises and enough dems pressure the GOP on it then the conspiracy theory MAGA voters will get disillusioned and stop supporting GOP candidates who talk a good game but never deliver.
I think Trump also overestimated how stupid (some of ) his Maga cult members are. Not all of them are wearing clownish outfits and showing up at rallies, cheering while their loved ones and community members are deported to third world war zones and concentration camps. Some are intelligent, sincere, *and* have their own media platforms and followings. Note for example 2028 candidate Tucker Carlson. Tucker smells an opening here.
Trump overplayed this hand and now the tiger's gonna eat his face, too. Saying "whatever you do, don't look over here" or "Joe Biden and Desmond Tutu created the Epstein Hoax" won't work on those Magas who are capable of even the simplest of critical thinking. They've now got to somehow reconcile that either their God is all over the Epstein files (with whatever that might imply) or that their God is the Deep State. Or, both.
I agree. And I *think* this changes the game. This fracture creates an opening which will surely be exploited by some new strain of potential Maga leadership, and of course Trump's typical opposition. In both cases this subtracts from Trump's base which means he loses wind. Of course I expect he'll attempt to counter this with all his usual tricks, and some good old fashioned heavy handed suppression. But I believe the horse has left the barn, so we'll have to see what materializes.
By now, someone is in the wings waiting for an opportunity to step in as the new face of MAGA. Felon Trump is old, not too healthy, and failing mentally. He falls asleep, even at events designed to sell him and his policies. His rambling is getting worse every time he is allowed to speak. If he keeps up this way, Republicans are cooked. And they know it. They must be looking for that someone, who could replace Trump, and keep Vance in line.
I've maintained for a while now that Trump will be very difficult if not impossible to replace. He has an almost mystical hold on his base that can't be easily replicated.
After Trump's insane story yesterday about his Brilliant MIT professor Uncle John, not only having taught the unibomber at MIT and his whopper about the same Uncle John having taught at MIT longer than anyone - both stories complete fables & easily disproved by the media- I'm surprised that he hasn't shut the hell up. But no, his verbal diarrhea continues ad infinitum.
Agree with you, Nibbles. This is different. He started it, now he's stopping it. And he called his supporters dumb. Both of those facts are unique to this scandal.
He'll spin, of course, and distract, but this is tougher than most of the challenges he's faced in the past.
Say what you like about Donald Trump, but he DOES have a talent for this kind of thing. This time might be different, though, because I think, this time, he has to expend energy coming up with a plan. In the past, it was all Lizard Brain instinct. He didn't spend any time strategizing. He just DID it. Now he's in a pickle and he's going to need to coordinate messages and work with people, not just browbeat them. This takes energy and it sure looks like he's running low on that these days. He's slurring his speech. He's saying even more stupid stuff -- the thing with the President of Liberia, his rambling nonsense with Pam Bondi the other day. He looks tired, worn out. The make-up isn't covering it up anymore. And just when his energy is waning, he's being called upon to actually work through an actual problem. That's big, I think.
Donald Trump is also not a true believer, and doesn’t really believe in much of anything. He doesn’t understand his followers who are true believers in conspiracy theories because for him it’s all about what is politically expedient. For Donald Trump it does not compute that people would put that much belief in the Epstein story: you can tell this by the language he uses in trying to get his base to move on which they might, but the seed of doubt has been laid. It’s not the same for 2020 being stolen which he created and if he stopped talking about would disappear because it’s only ever been about him, but Trump doesn’t get these nuances or understand the difference between a conspiracy theory he created and one they already believed, but he amplified.
Well put OP. No one’s views will change if/when Trump turns out once again to be a sex creep! It will be MAGAs cognitive dissonance seeing their “flawed vessel” isn’t going to burn down the Deep State and hang the Clintons and Oprah on livestream.
We already had SNL months ago where Trump announced And I will RELEASE the Epstein files! Volumes “A” through “S.”
The Christian Nationalists have mostly known about Trump's amorality all along. They put a lot of energy into insisting that his personal morality is irrelevant as long as he pushes the social-conservative policies they want, because "God uses flawed people" etc.
Top-tier MAGA apologists and thought leaders surely know about his long friendship with Epstein, the many photos with Epstein and Maxwell, his boast about barging in on undressed teenage girls, etc. They might publicly assert that he surely had nothing to do with Epstein's sordid trafficking business, though they must have entertained some private concerns that he's not so innocent.
Still, they've invested so much in defending him and portraying him as the persecuted champion of a fundamentally moral agenda that even this might not move them to admit that they've been boosting a very bad man.
Still, you can only throw so much at people before they say, maybe I've had enough. Calling his base stupid wasn't a good move.
The Christian Nationalists have an agenda that goes well beyond Trump. If Trump becomes a detriment to that agenda, leaders like Russ Vought and MAGA Mike will concentrate on the midterms and push Trump to the very back burner. Losing the House and Senate is too big a loss to take for the sake of the 'savior' when it comes to their overall goals. After all they've pretty much thrown Jesus to the back burner.
Agree with what Dems should do, but I question what changed. This scandal is not the result of anything the Dems did. It's the result of Trump shutting down the decades-long, Trump-fueled conspiracy theory about pedophile Dems with a DOJ memo (notably unsigned and undated) that there was no incriminating client list, and how some of the MAGA influencers responded to it. Then the MAGA crisis of faith that came from that.
This didn't even come back up after Musk called it out during his falling out with Trump. Like you said, Trump's DOJ did this to him with the announcement.
My best guess is that it was a response to pressure from the base. People asking questions and hearing nothing come out of the admin. In attempting to address their concerns, Bondi just made them worse.
He’s following his playbook, maybe too closely: when you know you’re guilty, accuse others of the very thing you’ve done, and pose as the one true enforcer.
(Then once everybody is convinced you’re the one who’s innocent, distract them while you hide the evidence. It’s this second part that Kristol hopes won’t go so well this time. But I think Trump will eventually get people to move on.)
I agree that it is possible he will eventually get his people to move on, but I don't think it is as much of a sure thing as before. I think it depends on whether a release of new information quenches MAGA's thirst. But if he keeps attacking them? I think it is likely that they disengage at least from Trump - they may still hate Dems and never vote for them, but it might be enough stink on Trump and MAGA that they go back into their conspiracy holes and let the grown ups repair their fuck ups.
Trump attacking his supporters is dumb. The most politically stupid thing I’ve seen him do. I do think he’ll lose 1-2% points of support from this. So not NO damage, but I think that’s all we can hope for: the continued erosion of support.
But we are already only 10 points above his rock bottom. Around 33% of the population could literally watch Trump violently rape someone they love and they’d defend him to the end.
I just read Agatha Christie’s short story Witness for the Prosecution, in which an accused murderer’s “wife” pretends to be hostile towards him as she testifies against him, knowing that her testimony will be easily disproven. She reasons (correctly) that her debunked false testimony will influence the jury to acquit him more surely than testifying in his favor would have. For some reason I thought of this case. Not to give Trump credit for playing multi-dimensional chess, but his strident opposition to releasing the files has only caused the clamor to grow, so that, when the files are inevitably released, people will more readily believe that his enemies, whose names he could inserted, were involved.
OMG - am I turning into a conspiracy theorist myself? This is what our current regime has brought us to.
I've been pondering a variation of that, something like this - Trump knows that he is not implicated in the files, and is stirring the pot so that when, sometime soon, Bondi actually releases something conclusive, he can say "see, I told you" and "I was only trying to honor normal DOJ protocol for not releasing unproven, uncharged allegations", while lambasting those who didn't trust him, and ultimately reinforcing his support - "Trump is always right, I never should have doubted him!". However, with each passing day I think this is less likely.
Hmm. She's already stated there was no "evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties." So she took a second look and found something??? How does that fly?
It’s sort of the same way he played the Mueller investigation. After fighting it vigorous the whole time, he finally got Bill Barr to “land the plane” and mischaracterize its findings (I guess “did not exonerate” was too subtle for most Americans), and then claimed he’d been totally cleared.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist either, but the madness of the past decade has me teetering on the edge. Especially after that "assassination attempt" with the perfectly staged raised-fist PR shot that galvanized his campaign.
He can if there's no place else for them to go. They can't belong to nothing. They gotta have their belonging need filled. So, isn't this why Carlson is taking the lead here? It certainly looks like he's positioning himself. Dividing MAGA is the best thing for the Dems' prospects in the midterms, so I'm all for it
I'm also beginning to think pressure needs to be put on the producer of "The Apprentice" , Mark Burnett, who now is an Ambassador somewhere. There were said to be taped of Trump using the N word and other vulgarities during tapings that Mark refused to release. It all needs to unravel...please, please, please!
Videos revealing vulgarities and the N word would not hurt Trump's reputation. On the contrary, his supporters would be thrilled to see that. They loved it when he was arraigned in Atlanta. His mug shot became famous.
Oh sweet summer QAnonites, the man you thought was storming the pedophile castle just turned around and locked the gates behind him. This ain’t just a political betrayal—it’s theological whiplash. Trump didn’t just deny the Epstein files, he denied your sacrament. He called your holy conspiracy a hoax and banished your prophets from Mar-a-Lago like Herod after a bad edible.
And now? Now the MAGA faithful must do what no red-hatted disciple ever imagined: confront the crucifixion of their own delusion. Welcome to the dark night of the cult. Pass the popcorn.
Somehow popcorn feels too tame for a crucifixion of any kind, let alone one where MAGA has to nail up their delusions and then watch them writhe and painfully expire.
"Theological whiplash" - well put, Virgin! Martin Luther comes to mind. He was an ordained priest. When he pulled back the curtain on how corrupt the Vatican was, Protestantism was born. They were still Christians - in fact, pure Christians whose only word was the Bible - just not papists.
Who is the Martin Luther catalyst? Tucker Carlson?
Ahhh SandyG, bless your nostalgic take, but let’s not confuse Martin Luther with Tucker Carlson unless we’re ready to call rage-farming a sacrament.
Luther risked excommunication to call out a system selling salvation like pork rinds at a carnival. He was a reluctant revolutionary. Tucker is a spotlight addict who whispers bedtime psalms to billionaires and sells gold coins during the commercial break.
The real “Luther moment” already happened. It wasn’t a new prophet rising. It was your orange messiah denying the gospel of Epstein and excommunicating the faithful for believing it. That wasn’t a reformation. That was a betrayal of the sacred script you thought you were following.
Trump didn't just deny the conspiracy. He denied your liturgy, your holy scrolls, your meme canon. He called your creed a hoax. And now the MAGA faithful are left with their hands full of incense and no altar to burn it on.
No need to crown a new Martin Luther. This isn’t the Reformation. It’s the reckoning.
I'd argue that the core conspiracy theory to MAGA is the "deep state" one, but the "deep state" conspiracy is very much tangentially related to the QAnon stuff and there's a lot of overlap on that Venn diagram. The "deep state" conspiracy theory overlaps with (at least) four of the other core conspiracy theories in the MAGA cinematic universe: QAnon, the Great Replacement, the 2020 Stolen Election, and the long-running "government coming to get your guns and put you into concentration camps" conspiracy theory.
It is the Deep State that allows the mass-importation of brown people from abroad to replace domestic christian whites via open borders. It is the Deep State that protects the members of the satanic child-molesting cabal from federal prosecution. It is the Deep State who stole the election from Trump in 2020. It is the Deep State who want to disarm the American public so that they can round us all up and put us into "FEMA camps." It is the Deep State that engineered 9/11 to get us into "forever wars." It is the Deep State who is working hand-in-glove with the food industrial complex and Monosanto and the health industrial complex to keep Americans sick instead of healing them because keeping them sick is more profitable.
Point here is that it's the Deep State conspiracy theory that's central to *most* rightwing conspiracy theories and that creates REAL political vulnerabilities for the GOP whenever they are in power because then *they* are in charge of the Deep State, and every time the GOP is in control of the Deep State and isn't doing anything about it their voters will get mad about it. That's the opportunity play for dems: showing the public that when the GOP is in charge the Deep State is as powerful as ever. Pointing this out repeatedly--as people are just now starting to do via the Epstein thing--can disillusion the conspiracy voters and make them go back to the couch-of-no-voting if they don't think that MAGA will deliver the goods on putting down the Deep State. Dems should capitalize on that by pointing out all the ways that the Trump admin has done absolutely nothing to address the Deep State and is in fact protecting and strengthening it.
Completely agree. Too bad the DNC doesn't have a "give us your feedback" page. But you could send it to Jasmine Crockett. Someone I heard recently said although she's sometimes off the mark, she's the perfect candidate for the Dems attack dog. She's not the leadership, she's not running for president, and she's black and female to boot. (That's gotta piss them off!) That's the kind of Dem fierceness - without the violence - you want to see, Travis, yes?
Hope springs eternal. I love me some Bill Kristol (wow, to imagine 20 years ago that I’d ever say that!) and I love his optimism here. But rule #1 of American politics in the Trump era: Trump always wins in the end. Rules just don’t apply to him. By Aug 1 I expect this will all be forgotten, drowned out by the new outrage-of-the-day.
I sure hope I’m back here in a few weeks admitting how wrong I was.
I hope the Red Sox will win the World Series too (which is perhaps 1% likely). But my hope that you’ll make an embarrassing admission you were wrong - It is such an infinitesimal chance I would be better off playing “guess how many fingers I am holding behind my back” in the Vegas vacation movie…. Also with you on Bill Kristol. The man who ruined my late night tv viewing 30 years ago has earned my respect and admiration…
I think I saw you weeping in Kenmore Square - you were right next to me as I engaged in ritual self flagellation after the ball went through Bill Buckner’s wooden legs!
BU was full of New Yorkers. I just remember this asshole in my dorm saying “did you ever doubt?” In his thick Brooklyn accent. 30 minutes earlier his head was in his hands. OMG I’m getting pissed just thinking about it.
I am aware of the NY subset (perhaps an actual majority) at BU. A friend and I shared a pair of season tickets situated in the fourth row, center field bleachers, perfectly in line with home plate throughout the 80’s and 90’s. Those bleachers were absolutely stacked with BU students wearing yankee hats and being as obnoxious as humanly possible. We used to mark the passing of spring to summer by noting, ‘the BU students went home! Spring semester is over!’ And, sadly, the return of the swans to Capistrano - or in this case, the last couple weeks of August, when there was no parking space available anywhere in kenmore or the back bay and Volkswagon’s were double parked with couches precariously tied to their roofs- all filled to the brim with the meager belongings of the return of students for fall semester at BU and the concurrent return of hundreds and thousands of yankee hats to Fenway park. I weep at the memory …
Having a Yastrzemski model glove as a kid did it for me. I'm a Phillies fan by birth (so yes, I can relate to Bosox fans) and the Sox were my AL team. I had a summer job at the Jersey Shore and my boss was a Mets fan and hated my Phillies cap I wore to work. He asked me if I liked any other team and I told him the Sox were my AL team. He bought me a Boston cap to wear at work. He doubly liked it because 1. It wasn't the hated Phils cap and 2. As a Mets fan he hated the Yankees so in his eyes the Sox cap was perfect! LOL!
It’s an enduring understanding that will allow me to commiserate with Mets fans, if only for their never ending inferiority complex foisted upon them by their neighbors in the Bronx.
Get that pitching staff reasonably healthy and the “Amazins” have a real shot, Douglass! Hope springs eternal-but as summer turns to autumn, you need about 8 or 9 reliable arms. Good luck to your Mets and, Remember the last day of the season last year - doubleheader sweep to get into the playoffs; who’d a thunk that??
As soon as MAGAts realize that attention to the Epstein matter is fueling the libs, not owning them, it will go away. MAGA is all about loyalty and absolute power, never about accountability. Those who imagine a MAGA implosion are absorbing Canadian fentanyl.
That is a possible factor. So to ward that off, the libs should be temperate about this by just stating the facts and posing the questions, calmly like a lawyer making her opening statement to keep the story going. MAGA is making this story, so there is no need to bring attention to it, so no need for histrionics.
Yesterday I saw a post that showed that Trump is failing and not just in the polls. His ankles are swollen, he has a hard time staying alert at a AI conference, he goes on some rant about his uncle went to MIT and taught the “unibomber”, there was some makeup on his tight hand covering something, and he finished the day off by telling his MAGA voters that the Epstein stuff was a hoax and he doesn’t need them anymore!
At what point does the 25 th amendment kick in?
The guy is on some kind of mental break!
I know that most people don’t see this type of news, but seriously!
What would William of Ockham say about the current Epstein re-dust up?
Meh.
Just as a thought experiment, name the *last* Trump scandal. Or Trump-adjacent scandal. Go ahead, name it off the top of your head. If you can even think of an individual scandal of such import that it's still as yet near the top of the public's mind and readily recognizable in its consciousness and you don't have to actually start googling for it, more power to you.
This is just more shit in a zone already so *flooded* with shit that it makes the Hill Country of Texas of late look like a desert by comparison.
How many times in the past when a scandal erupted (scandal now being a word almost devoid of any meaning vis a vie Trump) have we heard, "We (or the Ds or whoever) need to hang *this* around Trump's neck and bludgeon him with it every day without letting up." Or words to that effect?
If Trump's scandals could actually be effectively hung around his neck, the weight from any random sampling of past scandals would have buried him a mile deep in the muck of the sea floor at the bottom of the Mariana Trench long ago. That is, if Trump were the president of a serious country. Which America no longer is.
Some of the MAGA cult may be unhappy, pissed off or whatever over this Epstein thing. But all the gleeful armchair psychology and hopeful punditry in the world about this possibly being the breaking point for the MAGA faithful and Trump... that won't change the fact that soon enough another truck load of excrement will be dumped into the news cycle, befouling the body politic even further and starting a whole new spin cycle.
This is 21st century America, where incandescent stupidity trumps competence and moral clarity all day every day on the right, and where it will take far more than run-of-the-mill-shit-for-brains party and social influencers sniping back and forth in the cybersphere and in cable news clips to get the actual leopards to start eating their own faces in any serious numbers capable of weakening the neo-fascist cabal we now have running our country.
So. Harp on Epstein to your heart's content. Bludgeon Trump with it all you can. But let's see what's dominating the news cycle this time next month. Or even next week.
But if I'm wrong and this all somehow stinks up Trump and Trump World to the point that it does some actual damage, no one will be happier about that fact than I. But I won't be holding my breath. Except to avoid smelling this latest right-wing political stink any more than I have to myself.
Every autocrat looks over a shoulder to see if the replacement is gaining. And many autocracies get replaced from within. This might be the time for Felon Trump’s replacement. Don Old is mentally deteriorating faster. He sleeps through events. Rambles and slurs his words more. His “care takers” are trying to keep him focused for a little longer, maybe till the end of the year, so the takeover of our government is unstoppable. Jeffrey Epstein is a big story, and a big threat to Republicans. The longer it remains in the public eye, Republicans loose. JD Vance did not tie himself to Trump for Epstein.
The MAGA cult/voters remind me of a psychologically abused spouse. Gaslighting has driven them insane, but they still have a semi-conscious realization that their insanity has been caused by their spouse.
When something like a file with condemning evidence surfaces, if the abused spouse does not have someone to support them out of the destructive relationship, they simply continue in the relationship by believing their spouse that the condemning evidence is "a hoax," and they are "stupid" and "weak" for believing it.
In other words, the extent to which the MAGA cult/voters have committed themselves to their spouse (TheRump), and no one is there to lead them out of the destructive relationship, they will remain and continue to believe (in) him.
They may need to spend the weekend going back to their parents' house as a "I'll show him/her," but they will return.
At one point in "A Streetcar Named Desire," Stella Kowalski leaves Stanley and says, "I'm never going back!" after Stanley beats her. Check the final scene of the play.
All well said, Douglas. The abused spouse can't do it on her own. If she could, she wouldn't be in this mess with him in the first place. So she needs understanding - not judging - others to retrieve her and give her a place to recover.
1. I hope those stuck in the MAGA-cult can find someone with the ability to help them redirect their fears and grievances into more humane beliefs than in the mass deportation of immigrants or the hatred of those who are not in their "tribe." A role model, a trusted mentor, can do wonders as a guide.
2. Having had family members who were able to free themselves from an abusive relationship, it's easy for me to be understanding without judging them (they're family!) and to admire the strength and independence they gained.
But it's good for me to keep in mind when I meet anyone who has managed to emerge from the abusive MAGA-cult that I need to practice the same empathy and non-judgmental attitude for them. That "relationship" has been as soul-crushing in many ways for them as an abusive marriage can be.
That very well may be true. But if the main media story and conversation a month from now are still the novelty of a few disgruntled leopards scratching a few other leopard's faces with half-bared claws, then how much shit like *this* will have gone by all but unnoticed?
Whatever MAGA does or doesn't do at this point, Trump is here for another 3 1/2 years, barring a health event or perhaps a better-skilled marksman. And his ownership of the GOP lock, stock and two smoking barrels will not be relinquished just because Tucker Carlson's gotten it into his head that he just might be presidential material in '28 and dissing Trump's the smart move at the moment. Or any other Republican shit-for-brains for that matter. And the Boves and the rest of the fascist cabal will still be here long after Trump's expired as a political force and as a resident of this world.
A little unanticipated Schadenfreude is pleasurable, but I doubt this will make a bit of difference in the long-term prospects for our democracy. It's been bandied about more times than I can now count that the Republicans should "wake up and be more afraid of Trump's voters than they are of Trump". But news flash!!!
They're *already* terrified of those voters and have been for years now, and that's precisely why they do the things that they do. Which will be those things that Trump wants unless a huge number of right-wing voters overall turn on him. And I'd put the odds of that at > 0, but not much better than a million to one.
Yeah, I just saw some reporting on that story and Trump's online reaction... says he'll be suing the WSJ, Murdoch et al "shortly". So, this all might now have more legs than I thought. Which of course wouldn't be a bad thing, since at the least it keeps Trump and a lot of his people off balance, pissed off and less able to continue to consolidate and solidify power. But absent the conditions I mentioned, we're still stuck with him. But I suppose there's the hope that something comes out that sets him off so badly that he pops a gasket and strokes out, since he seems less and less able to control his anger as this Epstein thing slithers on in the news cycle.
Yes, M, at the very least, it keeps him off balance which is good in of itself. Yes, we are stuck with him, until he loses his base. Stay focused on that possibility.
I'm not saying the top story will still be a few disgruntled leopards (and I don't think that captures what's happening. I'm with Kristol - this is a a crisis of MAGA faith).
What I think will continue is all the juicy reporting still to be unearthed on Epstein's whole story as Kristol put it yesterday: How he got away with it all for so long, who helped him, who else participated in his crimes, how he was able to get the sweetheart deal he got from the George W. Bush Justice Department . . . (and) just what President Trump knew of Epstein’s criminal activities, and how close his own active social life intersected with Epstein’s."
That's not going away. That's just getting started. It keeps Trump in the crosshairs.
I don't think we'll see an opening of the MAGA mind, exactly, but this:
"That can’t be unthought, even if it can be repressed."
is the first step to them doubting other things he says. Now they will have it in their minds to question him, his words, his actions.
If they turn away from him, who will they coalesce around? Because they're not going away. I expect there will be competing factions who, hopefully, destroy each other, so that they are left with an insignificant, weak leader (if any survive).
Agree there needs to be an alternative god, otherwise revert to mean. Also it's most likely the emerging factions will decimate each other. All to the good.
The idea that the Fed chairman would somehow be fired over cost overruns in a building refurb is truly a stretch. The Chairman is not an ordinary senior administrator, he is hired to craft monetary policy.
No doubt there are operations managers who can be faulted - if fault exists. Cost overruns are part of the mix in most large proiect.
Rationality doesn't matter. SCOTUS has given him the green light for all of his miserable actions on the flimsiest of pretexts and they will do it again. The corruption of the six MAGA judges—and they all are both corrupt in the disdain of the law and precedent and MAGA, including and especially "Mr. Balls and Strikes" Roberts—is blatant and disgusting. They are ushering in autocracy and giving it their blessing. As long as it's a GOP king, of course.
Your last sentence recalls my favorite quip about tyranny: Q - what do you think of tyranny? A - depends on who the tyrant is.
At the founding, tyranny was considered morally wrong. Plato and Aristotle condemned it as a perversion of good government. Not for this SC. Can we say they are perverted? I think so.
It's hilarious that these cost over-runs have caught Trump's attention, in light of the fact that he's the guy who bought Mar a Lago for $5 million, has claimed it to be worth as much as $2 billion with a "b", and appealed a Palm Beach County assessment of $18 million.
I completely agree with Andrew's analysis of the Powell situation. He has voiced my belief that Trump will use cost overruns or some such nonsense as a pretext to fire Powell. And the ever-obedient SCOTUS will say they are OK with him firing the Fed Chair.
While hosting The Daily Show Tuesday night, Jordan Klepper said, "In the case of Trump and the Epstein files, let's call our theory "Occam's Giant F**king Machete."
P.S. Don't miss Ezra Klein's interview of The Bulwark's own Will Sommer. They do a deep dive into Q Anon, Epstein, and how we got to this point.
Andrew: "But nobody should rest easy on the subject until this gambit about supposed Fed fraud is safely in the rearview mirror."
Far from resting easy, I'm at a point where I actively support Trump firing Powell. And once the Fed has been politicized and the policies directed by Trump inevitably destroy his voters, what's not to like about that outcome?
The MAGAe are a bunch of slackwitted totalitarians who believe Trump should control all aspects of American life. If democracy is, to quote H.L. Mencken, "the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard", I'm at the point where the "good and hard" should come sooner rather than later. Politicized fiscal policy is what the MAGAe want. Give it to them. And when their financial standings are ruined because #ETTD, it'll be a just result.
< sorry, my misanthropy is off the hook this week >
I'm guessing you don't have a retirement account? Or you are many years away from retirement? Because firing Powell will cause the markets to rocket downward, just like they did on "Liberation Day".
I do have one. And should Powell be fired, it’ll take a hit like it did in April. That said, I want the lives of the MAGAe to be ruined as a result of their reflexive support of Trump. They deserve it.
While my misanthropy is very high I also rather like my job and my 401k and my house. So I will take a pass on all of us feeling the effects of MAGA stupidity on this one.
Now, cutting medicaid and killing rural hospitals because they wanted to own the libs? They voted for that.
We might not be able to avoid it, Robin. And yes, I value my career and my 401(k), I don't want those things to suffer. But if they have to, at least I'll take some satisfaction knowing that the MAGAe who don't have my education and credentials are going to get epically screwed.
All elements of the regime/cult of the orange narcissist-felon will fall in line, as they realize that shooting oneself in the foot is painful, as well as impairing future steps forward. They--all of them, like the senators who 'decry,' then vote in favor--have found ways to have it both ways: show concern, disapproval, then fold. They plumb new depths of hypocrisy daily.
Everyone in this Gadarene-swine-like rush to destroy a once great nation is involved: the so-called 'supreme' court enabling the orange narcissist-felon, and the AWOL Congress that has only a rubber stamp to deploy in favor of the cult, the Constitution be damned.
It seems that a few calm, clear, critical-thinking organizations and individuals--The Bulwark, The Contrarian, Heather Cox Richardson, Anne Applebaum--have seen through the horrors. Let us be thankful they speak up, constantly and consistently. But breaking the cult is difficult. For those who think it is easy, look up the psychodynamics of cult behavior.
It’s not easy, but Trump has forgotten, or maybe he hasn’t, that voters are borrowed and not owned. He has harnessed his coalition and made it ride, but there is no guarantee it will last. There’s a reason authoritarians try to avoid having elections as they know that coalitions shift and the group they put together at one point may fall apart. At the end of the day he’s afraid of his own voters and knows they might kick him out again as happened in 2020.
It’s quite the tell that when Trump has spoken about releasing materials in the files he qualifies it with ‘credible’ evidence. The MAGA faithful have always been anti-elitist and have seen Trump as on the outside too. Now he’s acting like he’s just another politician. Could this unraveling of an idiot conspiracy theory spell doom for Cheeto Mussolini?
What does it say about core MAGA devotees that questions about the Epstein “files” have turned more of them against Trump than all of the horrible things he has done and said?
Because they don't understand how the federal government works in all its complexity, they accepted Trump's claim that he was fixing it. In contrast they understand sexual crime very well and know there is a lot more to know about Epstein's activities than is publicly available. Epstein didn't party alone, and who partied with him?
I'm afraid there's a simpler and cruder explanation. They love sadomasochism and brutal treatment of children as long as the victims are brown. If you tell them about the horrors that prisoners are enduring at Alligator Auschwitz, they say "Tough luck, that's what they get for breaking our laws." But Epstein's girls were blonde, blue-eyed white victims.
This is a big part of it. The ethnicity, biological sex, and political leanings of victims often determines whether or not they will get sympathy from the American right. It also depends on who the killer is.
See Laken Riley vs George Floyd.
Oh yes. It's long been a grim joke that when a photogenic white woman goes missing, it's national news (Lacey Peterson, Natalie Holloway, the "runaway bride" case etc.). One comedian proposed a new station called WWWA (for "Where the White Women At?") that would cover these stories 24/7. But as we all know, indigenous women disappear from reservations all the time and we never hear about them.
Case in point: https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5406623-breonna-taylor-conviction-federal-sentencing/
Excellent distinction.
Isn’t there more than a whiff of antisemitism to it as well? Epstein was Jewish and luring young ‘Christian girls’ into prostitution for his pleasure. They always go after the minorities and or gays for trafficking in underage children— see Kilmer Abrego Garcia.
Sure. Everyone except people who think like you are evil. Only you can appreciate the pain that brown people face. What a twisted, wrongheaded take.
That bears no resemblance at all to what I wrote. I suspect a great many Republicans and Trump supporters are disturbed by what they see. But I also have seen social media posts in which descriptions of the sufferings in ICE detention get laugh-emojis and thumbs-up symbols in the comment thread, with comments like "They crossed the border illegally, it's their fault." Check out a social media feed yourself and see the number of people laughing as they wear "Alligator Alcatraz" shirts. Including, as you are well aware, members of his Cabinet. There are a great many people besides me who find that mentality repugnant, but members of Trump's core base do resort to that kind of logic to excuse the vicious tactics of their leader.
This is what I was responding to: "They love sadomasochism and brutal treatment of children as long as the victims are brown".
If you are saying that there are a lot of shit bags out there (many in the government), I agree.
any who helped him financially??? Follow the money, as usual.
100%
Would you consider it? A s*it hole country?
America is an unserious country at this point in time.
Though I’m not sure when was the last time we were a serious country.
Before we elected a reality show tv person with no political experience?
Would we really have elected a TV star who was addicted to Jelly Bean if we were a ‘serious’ nation?
I didn't elect him. I'm not "we".
That comment was about Ronald Reagan hence the Jelly Bean comment.
When we were attacked by the Japs (as they were referred to at the time) and Hitler declared war on us.
Maybe the same thing it said about Roman Catholics not shutting up about the the priest sexual abuse scandal. It took years and the Boston Globe, but a massive global coverup at the lowest and highest levels was finally exposed. Many devoted Catholics walked out the door over this child sexual abuse scandal. MAGA devotees may be no different.
Give the Boston Phoenix credit for getting there before the Globe. It's the same thing that happened with George Santos. A small, local paper exposed his lies during his campaign but everyone ignored it until after the election, because who cares about a minor Congressional race in a small district? Then the NY Times discovered that, wow, this guy's whole career is based on lies and got a Pulitzer for belatedly noticing what they could have read in the local paper.
Exactly, Sue. Amping this story should be very much in the Press's wheelhouse. Wired is doing some good on it but the rest of the MainStreamMedia should be all over it. MAybe itt says something that they're not.
very few walked out the door overall, sad
Millions walked out the door in the US alone.
It says they are controlled by their limbic system and not their pre-frontal cortex. They love emotional dirt more than ugly facts.
THEY ARE EATING THE DOGS. THEY ARE EATING THE CATS!!
THEY ARE EATING BABIES!
Their amygdala is showing.
Hah!
yikes, true.
It is all about the vibes.
So the first thing you have to realize is most people don’t read primary news, they get their news through other people who watch the news and further filter it.
The second is that most people don’t seek out “political” news. Which means they seek out non political sources like Joe Rogan etc. Epstien is in a sense non political. Pedos being bad isn’t political it’s basically just a thing we all agree on, which can cause this bit to slip through.
Finally, most people don’t think things are happening unless it happens to them or theirs. Tell me, with the exception of maybe the ACA, if you didn’t read or watch news would you know if team red or blue was in the White House? Probabbly not. Which leads to “uniparty” talk.
Basically, because they see no difference between administrations in their own personal lives they tune out “OMG ADMIN DOING XYZ BAD THING” because the feds are always doing something, but it almost never trickles down to impact the individual voter so who cares
I would bet a very large sum of money that the same MAGA people who are obsessed with the Epstein files and were alive were also obsessed with the Monica Lewinsky affair and are still convinced the Clinton's murdered Vince Foster.
They are total moral failures
Why didn't Trump anticipate that there was damning information about him in the Epstein Files? He's never been that dumb before! He had years to think about it. If I had been on the plane to Epstein's island, I would never mention Epstein again for the rest of my life.
https://kathleenweber.substack.com/p/they-just-arent-buying-it
Riding the tiger. He thought the Epstein thing would be more advantageous to him as a political weapon against dems than as a personal political weakness for himself--and for a long time that *was* the case. What changed is that dems are finally starting to get off of their high road to nowhere and are playing in the mud for a change. Back when they weren't willing to do that Trump *could* use this issue as a one-way bludgeon. Now that dems are starting to find their sea legs while playing in the mud Trump suddenly finds himself on the business end of his own conspiracy theories, which is very bad for him considering how much of his support comes from conspiracy theorists who are quickly becoming disillusioned.
Dems should keep this up. They should point out how Trump has done *absolutely nothing* about the "deep state satanic cabals" supposedly cannibalizing children for adrenochrome--and no arrests of anyone who helped "steal" the 2020 elections either. If dems keep calling his bluff on conspiracy theories it forces a wedge right down the middle of MAGA's voter coalition between those who only got into MAGA politics *because* of the conspiracy theories and the ethnonationalists who maximally support Trump over his immigration policies. If MAGA isn't delivering on conspiracy theory campaign promises and enough dems pressure the GOP on it then the conspiracy theory MAGA voters will get disillusioned and stop supporting GOP candidates who talk a good game but never deliver.
I think Trump also overestimated how stupid (some of ) his Maga cult members are. Not all of them are wearing clownish outfits and showing up at rallies, cheering while their loved ones and community members are deported to third world war zones and concentration camps. Some are intelligent, sincere, *and* have their own media platforms and followings. Note for example 2028 candidate Tucker Carlson. Tucker smells an opening here.
Trump overplayed this hand and now the tiger's gonna eat his face, too. Saying "whatever you do, don't look over here" or "Joe Biden and Desmond Tutu created the Epstein Hoax" won't work on those Magas who are capable of even the simplest of critical thinking. They've now got to somehow reconcile that either their God is all over the Epstein files (with whatever that might imply) or that their God is the Deep State. Or, both.
It's definitely the "both" option. John Doe 174--Trump's name in the Epstein case files--is definitely part of the Deep State now.
I agree. And I *think* this changes the game. This fracture creates an opening which will surely be exploited by some new strain of potential Maga leadership, and of course Trump's typical opposition. In both cases this subtracts from Trump's base which means he loses wind. Of course I expect he'll attempt to counter this with all his usual tricks, and some good old fashioned heavy handed suppression. But I believe the horse has left the barn, so we'll have to see what materializes.
By now, someone is in the wings waiting for an opportunity to step in as the new face of MAGA. Felon Trump is old, not too healthy, and failing mentally. He falls asleep, even at events designed to sell him and his policies. His rambling is getting worse every time he is allowed to speak. If he keeps up this way, Republicans are cooked. And they know it. They must be looking for that someone, who could replace Trump, and keep Vance in line.
I've maintained for a while now that Trump will be very difficult if not impossible to replace. He has an almost mystical hold on his base that can't be easily replicated.
After Trump's insane story yesterday about his Brilliant MIT professor Uncle John, not only having taught the unibomber at MIT and his whopper about the same Uncle John having taught at MIT longer than anyone - both stories complete fables & easily disproved by the media- I'm surprised that he hasn't shut the hell up. But no, his verbal diarrhea continues ad infinitum.
Agree with you, Nibbles. This is different. He started it, now he's stopping it. And he called his supporters dumb. Both of those facts are unique to this scandal.
He'll spin, of course, and distract, but this is tougher than most of the challenges he's faced in the past.
Say what you like about Donald Trump, but he DOES have a talent for this kind of thing. This time might be different, though, because I think, this time, he has to expend energy coming up with a plan. In the past, it was all Lizard Brain instinct. He didn't spend any time strategizing. He just DID it. Now he's in a pickle and he's going to need to coordinate messages and work with people, not just browbeat them. This takes energy and it sure looks like he's running low on that these days. He's slurring his speech. He's saying even more stupid stuff -- the thing with the President of Liberia, his rambling nonsense with Pam Bondi the other day. He looks tired, worn out. The make-up isn't covering it up anymore. And just when his energy is waning, he's being called upon to actually work through an actual problem. That's big, I think.
Agree!
Donald Trump is also not a true believer, and doesn’t really believe in much of anything. He doesn’t understand his followers who are true believers in conspiracy theories because for him it’s all about what is politically expedient. For Donald Trump it does not compute that people would put that much belief in the Epstein story: you can tell this by the language he uses in trying to get his base to move on which they might, but the seed of doubt has been laid. It’s not the same for 2020 being stolen which he created and if he stopped talking about would disappear because it’s only ever been about him, but Trump doesn’t get these nuances or understand the difference between a conspiracy theory he created and one they already believed, but he amplified.
Well put OP. No one’s views will change if/when Trump turns out once again to be a sex creep! It will be MAGAs cognitive dissonance seeing their “flawed vessel” isn’t going to burn down the Deep State and hang the Clintons and Oprah on livestream.
We already had SNL months ago where Trump announced And I will RELEASE the Epstein files! Volumes “A” through “S.”
Hah! I didn't catch that SNL. That's great!
I doubt this is going to do much for his Christian Nationalist base either.
The Christian Nationalists have mostly known about Trump's amorality all along. They put a lot of energy into insisting that his personal morality is irrelevant as long as he pushes the social-conservative policies they want, because "God uses flawed people" etc.
Top-tier MAGA apologists and thought leaders surely know about his long friendship with Epstein, the many photos with Epstein and Maxwell, his boast about barging in on undressed teenage girls, etc. They might publicly assert that he surely had nothing to do with Epstein's sordid trafficking business, though they must have entertained some private concerns that he's not so innocent.
Still, they've invested so much in defending him and portraying him as the persecuted champion of a fundamentally moral agenda that even this might not move them to admit that they've been boosting a very bad man.
Still, you can only throw so much at people before they say, maybe I've had enough. Calling his base stupid wasn't a good move.
The Christian Nationalists have an agenda that goes well beyond Trump. If Trump becomes a detriment to that agenda, leaders like Russ Vought and MAGA Mike will concentrate on the midterms and push Trump to the very back burner. Losing the House and Senate is too big a loss to take for the sake of the 'savior' when it comes to their overall goals. After all they've pretty much thrown Jesus to the back burner.
Agree with what Dems should do, but I question what changed. This scandal is not the result of anything the Dems did. It's the result of Trump shutting down the decades-long, Trump-fueled conspiracy theory about pedophile Dems with a DOJ memo (notably unsigned and undated) that there was no incriminating client list, and how some of the MAGA influencers responded to it. Then the MAGA crisis of faith that came from that.
This didn't even come back up after Musk called it out during his falling out with Trump. Like you said, Trump's DOJ did this to him with the announcement.
OK. WHY did Bondi/Trump make the announcement when she did? My theory is it was a reaction to Musk's "disclosure." What do you think??
My best guess is that it was a response to pressure from the base. People asking questions and hearing nothing come out of the admin. In attempting to address their concerns, Bondi just made them worse.
Unrelated to Musk’s claim?
He’s following his playbook, maybe too closely: when you know you’re guilty, accuse others of the very thing you’ve done, and pose as the one true enforcer.
(Then once everybody is convinced you’re the one who’s innocent, distract them while you hide the evidence. It’s this second part that Kristol hopes won’t go so well this time. But I think Trump will eventually get people to move on.)
I agree that it is possible he will eventually get his people to move on, but I don't think it is as much of a sure thing as before. I think it depends on whether a release of new information quenches MAGA's thirst. But if he keeps attacking them? I think it is likely that they disengage at least from Trump - they may still hate Dems and never vote for them, but it might be enough stink on Trump and MAGA that they go back into their conspiracy holes and let the grown ups repair their fuck ups.
Trump attacking his supporters is dumb. The most politically stupid thing I’ve seen him do. I do think he’ll lose 1-2% points of support from this. So not NO damage, but I think that’s all we can hope for: the continued erosion of support.
But we are already only 10 points above his rock bottom. Around 33% of the population could literally watch Trump violently rape someone they love and they’d defend him to the end.
I just read Agatha Christie’s short story Witness for the Prosecution, in which an accused murderer’s “wife” pretends to be hostile towards him as she testifies against him, knowing that her testimony will be easily disproven. She reasons (correctly) that her debunked false testimony will influence the jury to acquit him more surely than testifying in his favor would have. For some reason I thought of this case. Not to give Trump credit for playing multi-dimensional chess, but his strident opposition to releasing the files has only caused the clamor to grow, so that, when the files are inevitably released, people will more readily believe that his enemies, whose names he could inserted, were involved.
OMG - am I turning into a conspiracy theorist myself? This is what our current regime has brought us to.
I've been pondering a variation of that, something like this - Trump knows that he is not implicated in the files, and is stirring the pot so that when, sometime soon, Bondi actually releases something conclusive, he can say "see, I told you" and "I was only trying to honor normal DOJ protocol for not releasing unproven, uncharged allegations", while lambasting those who didn't trust him, and ultimately reinforcing his support - "Trump is always right, I never should have doubted him!". However, with each passing day I think this is less likely.
Hmm. She's already stated there was no "evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties." So she took a second look and found something??? How does that fly?
It’s sort of the same way he played the Mueller investigation. After fighting it vigorous the whole time, he finally got Bill Barr to “land the plane” and mischaracterize its findings (I guess “did not exonerate” was too subtle for most Americans), and then claimed he’d been totally cleared.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist either, but the madness of the past decade has me teetering on the edge. Especially after that "assassination attempt" with the perfectly staged raised-fist PR shot that galvanized his campaign.
He can if there's no place else for them to go. They can't belong to nothing. They gotta have their belonging need filled. So, isn't this why Carlson is taking the lead here? It certainly looks like he's positioning himself. Dividing MAGA is the best thing for the Dems' prospects in the midterms, so I'm all for it
I'm also beginning to think pressure needs to be put on the producer of "The Apprentice" , Mark Burnett, who now is an Ambassador somewhere. There were said to be taped of Trump using the N word and other vulgarities during tapings that Mark refused to release. It all needs to unravel...please, please, please!
Burnett got an ambassadorship to a plum location, so selling his soul has worked out well for him.
Videos revealing vulgarities and the N word would not hurt Trump's reputation. On the contrary, his supporters would be thrilled to see that. They loved it when he was arraigned in Atlanta. His mug shot became famous.
It's the porno-wallstreeters that stand the most to lose since they didn't vote for maga, they voted for $$.
Oh sweet summer QAnonites, the man you thought was storming the pedophile castle just turned around and locked the gates behind him. This ain’t just a political betrayal—it’s theological whiplash. Trump didn’t just deny the Epstein files, he denied your sacrament. He called your holy conspiracy a hoax and banished your prophets from Mar-a-Lago like Herod after a bad edible.
And now? Now the MAGA faithful must do what no red-hatted disciple ever imagined: confront the crucifixion of their own delusion. Welcome to the dark night of the cult. Pass the popcorn.
Photos and film clips of Epstein and Trump out clubbing together are great visuals of predators in the wild. Makes my skin crawl every time!
Yes, I caught a clip of that tape of them when they were younger. There was something about Epstein that was so creepy. I can’t get it out of my head.
Somehow popcorn feels too tame for a crucifixion of any kind, let alone one where MAGA has to nail up their delusions and then watch them writhe and painfully expire.
"Theological whiplash" - well put, Virgin! Martin Luther comes to mind. He was an ordained priest. When he pulled back the curtain on how corrupt the Vatican was, Protestantism was born. They were still Christians - in fact, pure Christians whose only word was the Bible - just not papists.
Who is the Martin Luther catalyst? Tucker Carlson?
Ahhh SandyG, bless your nostalgic take, but let’s not confuse Martin Luther with Tucker Carlson unless we’re ready to call rage-farming a sacrament.
Luther risked excommunication to call out a system selling salvation like pork rinds at a carnival. He was a reluctant revolutionary. Tucker is a spotlight addict who whispers bedtime psalms to billionaires and sells gold coins during the commercial break.
The real “Luther moment” already happened. It wasn’t a new prophet rising. It was your orange messiah denying the gospel of Epstein and excommunicating the faithful for believing it. That wasn’t a reformation. That was a betrayal of the sacred script you thought you were following.
Trump didn't just deny the conspiracy. He denied your liturgy, your holy scrolls, your meme canon. He called your creed a hoax. And now the MAGA faithful are left with their hands full of incense and no altar to burn it on.
No need to crown a new Martin Luther. This isn’t the Reformation. It’s the reckoning.
Selah and pass the popcorn.
OK. it was off the top of my head.
I'd argue that the core conspiracy theory to MAGA is the "deep state" one, but the "deep state" conspiracy is very much tangentially related to the QAnon stuff and there's a lot of overlap on that Venn diagram. The "deep state" conspiracy theory overlaps with (at least) four of the other core conspiracy theories in the MAGA cinematic universe: QAnon, the Great Replacement, the 2020 Stolen Election, and the long-running "government coming to get your guns and put you into concentration camps" conspiracy theory.
It is the Deep State that allows the mass-importation of brown people from abroad to replace domestic christian whites via open borders. It is the Deep State that protects the members of the satanic child-molesting cabal from federal prosecution. It is the Deep State who stole the election from Trump in 2020. It is the Deep State who want to disarm the American public so that they can round us all up and put us into "FEMA camps." It is the Deep State that engineered 9/11 to get us into "forever wars." It is the Deep State who is working hand-in-glove with the food industrial complex and Monosanto and the health industrial complex to keep Americans sick instead of healing them because keeping them sick is more profitable.
Point here is that it's the Deep State conspiracy theory that's central to *most* rightwing conspiracy theories and that creates REAL political vulnerabilities for the GOP whenever they are in power because then *they* are in charge of the Deep State, and every time the GOP is in control of the Deep State and isn't doing anything about it their voters will get mad about it. That's the opportunity play for dems: showing the public that when the GOP is in charge the Deep State is as powerful as ever. Pointing this out repeatedly--as people are just now starting to do via the Epstein thing--can disillusion the conspiracy voters and make them go back to the couch-of-no-voting if they don't think that MAGA will deliver the goods on putting down the Deep State. Dems should capitalize on that by pointing out all the ways that the Trump admin has done absolutely nothing to address the Deep State and is in fact protecting and strengthening it.
Completely agree. Too bad the DNC doesn't have a "give us your feedback" page. But you could send it to Jasmine Crockett. Someone I heard recently said although she's sometimes off the mark, she's the perfect candidate for the Dems attack dog. She's not the leadership, she's not running for president, and she's black and female to boot. (That's gotta piss them off!) That's the kind of Dem fierceness - without the violence - you want to see, Travis, yes?
Hope springs eternal. I love me some Bill Kristol (wow, to imagine 20 years ago that I’d ever say that!) and I love his optimism here. But rule #1 of American politics in the Trump era: Trump always wins in the end. Rules just don’t apply to him. By Aug 1 I expect this will all be forgotten, drowned out by the new outrage-of-the-day.
I sure hope I’m back here in a few weeks admitting how wrong I was.
You may be right, Everett. But at the same time, you have to admit that this is tearing apart the MAGAe in a most entertaining way.
Yes, I’m going to enjoy the ride, even though I suspect it will, like a roller coaster, ultimately pull back into the same familiar station.
It’s car crash crazy! But like a Texas flood, this too shall pass
I hope the Red Sox will win the World Series too (which is perhaps 1% likely). But my hope that you’ll make an embarrassing admission you were wrong - It is such an infinitesimal chance I would be better off playing “guess how many fingers I am holding behind my back” in the Vegas vacation movie…. Also with you on Bill Kristol. The man who ruined my late night tv viewing 30 years ago has earned my respect and admiration…
Hey I love the Sox! I was a freshman at BU in October of 1986, and I never fully healed.
I think I saw you weeping in Kenmore Square - you were right next to me as I engaged in ritual self flagellation after the ball went through Bill Buckner’s wooden legs!
BU was full of New Yorkers. I just remember this asshole in my dorm saying “did you ever doubt?” In his thick Brooklyn accent. 30 minutes earlier his head was in his hands. OMG I’m getting pissed just thinking about it.
I am aware of the NY subset (perhaps an actual majority) at BU. A friend and I shared a pair of season tickets situated in the fourth row, center field bleachers, perfectly in line with home plate throughout the 80’s and 90’s. Those bleachers were absolutely stacked with BU students wearing yankee hats and being as obnoxious as humanly possible. We used to mark the passing of spring to summer by noting, ‘the BU students went home! Spring semester is over!’ And, sadly, the return of the swans to Capistrano - or in this case, the last couple weeks of August, when there was no parking space available anywhere in kenmore or the back bay and Volkswagon’s were double parked with couches precariously tied to their roofs- all filled to the brim with the meager belongings of the return of students for fall semester at BU and the concurrent return of hundreds and thousands of yankee hats to Fenway park. I weep at the memory …
Having a Yastrzemski model glove as a kid did it for me. I'm a Phillies fan by birth (so yes, I can relate to Bosox fans) and the Sox were my AL team. I had a summer job at the Jersey Shore and my boss was a Mets fan and hated my Phillies cap I wore to work. He asked me if I liked any other team and I told him the Sox were my AL team. He bought me a Boston cap to wear at work. He doubly liked it because 1. It wasn't the hated Phils cap and 2. As a Mets fan he hated the Yankees so in his eyes the Sox cap was perfect! LOL!
It’s an enduring understanding that will allow me to commiserate with Mets fans, if only for their never ending inferiority complex foisted upon them by their neighbors in the Bronx.
Yes!
Mets fan here. And thanks for the commiseration.
(Currently not out of the running -- but who am I kidding?)
Get that pitching staff reasonably healthy and the “Amazins” have a real shot, Douglass! Hope springs eternal-but as summer turns to autumn, you need about 8 or 9 reliable arms. Good luck to your Mets and, Remember the last day of the season last year - doubleheader sweep to get into the playoffs; who’d a thunk that??
As soon as MAGAts realize that attention to the Epstein matter is fueling the libs, not owning them, it will go away. MAGA is all about loyalty and absolute power, never about accountability. Those who imagine a MAGA implosion are absorbing Canadian fentanyl.
That is a possible factor. So to ward that off, the libs should be temperate about this by just stating the facts and posing the questions, calmly like a lawyer making her opening statement to keep the story going. MAGA is making this story, so there is no need to bring attention to it, so no need for histrionics.
Rule number one in a malignant narcissist, they always push things to self destruction. See Jeffrey Epstein.
At least buy us dinner first.
Damn Andrew that’s good! 🤣
Ah, hell, it doesn't even have to be dinner with this SCOTUS. Their price isn't that high. A single drink will do.
As long as the drink is served in a free RV. 😉
Yesterday I saw a post that showed that Trump is failing and not just in the polls. His ankles are swollen, he has a hard time staying alert at a AI conference, he goes on some rant about his uncle went to MIT and taught the “unibomber”, there was some makeup on his tight hand covering something, and he finished the day off by telling his MAGA voters that the Epstein stuff was a hoax and he doesn’t need them anymore!
At what point does the 25 th amendment kick in?
The guy is on some kind of mental break!
I know that most people don’t see this type of news, but seriously!
The media tanked Joe Biden for a lot less!
Stress makes the mental condition worse. He must be cratering mentally
💥💥💥 DONT MISS THIS!!! 🧨🧨🧨
Please take a look at my Trump-Epstein meme !!!
https://kathleenweber.substack.com/p/they-just-arent-buying-it
Love it!
Well done!
What would William of Ockham say about the current Epstein re-dust up?
Meh.
Just as a thought experiment, name the *last* Trump scandal. Or Trump-adjacent scandal. Go ahead, name it off the top of your head. If you can even think of an individual scandal of such import that it's still as yet near the top of the public's mind and readily recognizable in its consciousness and you don't have to actually start googling for it, more power to you.
This is just more shit in a zone already so *flooded* with shit that it makes the Hill Country of Texas of late look like a desert by comparison.
How many times in the past when a scandal erupted (scandal now being a word almost devoid of any meaning vis a vie Trump) have we heard, "We (or the Ds or whoever) need to hang *this* around Trump's neck and bludgeon him with it every day without letting up." Or words to that effect?
If Trump's scandals could actually be effectively hung around his neck, the weight from any random sampling of past scandals would have buried him a mile deep in the muck of the sea floor at the bottom of the Mariana Trench long ago. That is, if Trump were the president of a serious country. Which America no longer is.
Some of the MAGA cult may be unhappy, pissed off or whatever over this Epstein thing. But all the gleeful armchair psychology and hopeful punditry in the world about this possibly being the breaking point for the MAGA faithful and Trump... that won't change the fact that soon enough another truck load of excrement will be dumped into the news cycle, befouling the body politic even further and starting a whole new spin cycle.
This is 21st century America, where incandescent stupidity trumps competence and moral clarity all day every day on the right, and where it will take far more than run-of-the-mill-shit-for-brains party and social influencers sniping back and forth in the cybersphere and in cable news clips to get the actual leopards to start eating their own faces in any serious numbers capable of weakening the neo-fascist cabal we now have running our country.
So. Harp on Epstein to your heart's content. Bludgeon Trump with it all you can. But let's see what's dominating the news cycle this time next month. Or even next week.
But if I'm wrong and this all somehow stinks up Trump and Trump World to the point that it does some actual damage, no one will be happier about that fact than I. But I won't be holding my breath. Except to avoid smelling this latest right-wing political stink any more than I have to myself.
Every autocrat looks over a shoulder to see if the replacement is gaining. And many autocracies get replaced from within. This might be the time for Felon Trump’s replacement. Don Old is mentally deteriorating faster. He sleeps through events. Rambles and slurs his words more. His “care takers” are trying to keep him focused for a little longer, maybe till the end of the year, so the takeover of our government is unstoppable. Jeffrey Epstein is a big story, and a big threat to Republicans. The longer it remains in the public eye, Republicans loose. JD Vance did not tie himself to Trump for Epstein.
The MAGA cult/voters remind me of a psychologically abused spouse. Gaslighting has driven them insane, but they still have a semi-conscious realization that their insanity has been caused by their spouse.
When something like a file with condemning evidence surfaces, if the abused spouse does not have someone to support them out of the destructive relationship, they simply continue in the relationship by believing their spouse that the condemning evidence is "a hoax," and they are "stupid" and "weak" for believing it.
In other words, the extent to which the MAGA cult/voters have committed themselves to their spouse (TheRump), and no one is there to lead them out of the destructive relationship, they will remain and continue to believe (in) him.
They may need to spend the weekend going back to their parents' house as a "I'll show him/her," but they will return.
At one point in "A Streetcar Named Desire," Stella Kowalski leaves Stanley and says, "I'm never going back!" after Stanley beats her. Check the final scene of the play.
All well said, Douglas. The abused spouse can't do it on her own. If she could, she wouldn't be in this mess with him in the first place. So she needs understanding - not judging - others to retrieve her and give her a place to recover.
Yes! Thanks, Sandy for that important addition.
Two points come to mind:
1. I hope those stuck in the MAGA-cult can find someone with the ability to help them redirect their fears and grievances into more humane beliefs than in the mass deportation of immigrants or the hatred of those who are not in their "tribe." A role model, a trusted mentor, can do wonders as a guide.
2. Having had family members who were able to free themselves from an abusive relationship, it's easy for me to be understanding without judging them (they're family!) and to admire the strength and independence they gained.
But it's good for me to keep in mind when I meet anyone who has managed to emerge from the abusive MAGA-cult that I need to practice the same empathy and non-judgmental attitude for them. That "relationship" has been as soul-crushing in many ways for them as an abusive marriage can be.
FWIW, I think we will still be talking about this next month because this isn't just the same old same old.
That very well may be true. But if the main media story and conversation a month from now are still the novelty of a few disgruntled leopards scratching a few other leopard's faces with half-bared claws, then how much shit like *this* will have gone by all but unnoticed?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-democrats-walk-out-republicans-advance-judicial-nomination-of-emil-bove/ar-AA1INPbY?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Whatever MAGA does or doesn't do at this point, Trump is here for another 3 1/2 years, barring a health event or perhaps a better-skilled marksman. And his ownership of the GOP lock, stock and two smoking barrels will not be relinquished just because Tucker Carlson's gotten it into his head that he just might be presidential material in '28 and dissing Trump's the smart move at the moment. Or any other Republican shit-for-brains for that matter. And the Boves and the rest of the fascist cabal will still be here long after Trump's expired as a political force and as a resident of this world.
A little unanticipated Schadenfreude is pleasurable, but I doubt this will make a bit of difference in the long-term prospects for our democracy. It's been bandied about more times than I can now count that the Republicans should "wake up and be more afraid of Trump's voters than they are of Trump". But news flash!!!
They're *already* terrified of those voters and have been for years now, and that's precisely why they do the things that they do. Which will be those things that Trump wants unless a huge number of right-wing voters overall turn on him. And I'd put the odds of that at > 0, but not much better than a million to one.
Here ya' go, M.: Trump-Epstein Scandal About To Get Far Worse, WSJ Report Imminent (https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-epstein-scandal-about-to-get).
Yeah, I just saw some reporting on that story and Trump's online reaction... says he'll be suing the WSJ, Murdoch et al "shortly". So, this all might now have more legs than I thought. Which of course wouldn't be a bad thing, since at the least it keeps Trump and a lot of his people off balance, pissed off and less able to continue to consolidate and solidify power. But absent the conditions I mentioned, we're still stuck with him. But I suppose there's the hope that something comes out that sets him off so badly that he pops a gasket and strokes out, since he seems less and less able to control his anger as this Epstein thing slithers on in the news cycle.
Yes, M, at the very least, it keeps him off balance which is good in of itself. Yes, we are stuck with him, until he loses his base. Stay focused on that possibility.
I'm not saying the top story will still be a few disgruntled leopards (and I don't think that captures what's happening. I'm with Kristol - this is a a crisis of MAGA faith).
What I think will continue is all the juicy reporting still to be unearthed on Epstein's whole story as Kristol put it yesterday: How he got away with it all for so long, who helped him, who else participated in his crimes, how he was able to get the sweetheart deal he got from the George W. Bush Justice Department . . . (and) just what President Trump knew of Epstein’s criminal activities, and how close his own active social life intersected with Epstein’s."
That's not going away. That's just getting started. It keeps Trump in the crosshairs.
As to the Bove nomination, a very serious story - David French discussed with Charlie Sykes today (https://charliesykes.substack.com/p/trump-loses-the-plot) - it has been noticed. Not on MSM but they wouldn't have anyway.
I second that.
I don't think we'll see an opening of the MAGA mind, exactly, but this:
"That can’t be unthought, even if it can be repressed."
is the first step to them doubting other things he says. Now they will have it in their minds to question him, his words, his actions.
If they turn away from him, who will they coalesce around? Because they're not going away. I expect there will be competing factions who, hopefully, destroy each other, so that they are left with an insignificant, weak leader (if any survive).
All of that would be good.
Agree there needs to be an alternative god, otherwise revert to mean. Also it's most likely the emerging factions will decimate each other. All to the good.
The idea that the Fed chairman would somehow be fired over cost overruns in a building refurb is truly a stretch. The Chairman is not an ordinary senior administrator, he is hired to craft monetary policy.
No doubt there are operations managers who can be faulted - if fault exists. Cost overruns are part of the mix in most large proiect.
Even Trump knows that.
Rationality doesn't matter. SCOTUS has given him the green light for all of his miserable actions on the flimsiest of pretexts and they will do it again. The corruption of the six MAGA judges—and they all are both corrupt in the disdain of the law and precedent and MAGA, including and especially "Mr. Balls and Strikes" Roberts—is blatant and disgusting. They are ushering in autocracy and giving it their blessing. As long as it's a GOP king, of course.
"Flimsiest of pretexts" - well put.
Your last sentence recalls my favorite quip about tyranny: Q - what do you think of tyranny? A - depends on who the tyrant is.
At the founding, tyranny was considered morally wrong. Plato and Aristotle condemned it as a perversion of good government. Not for this SC. Can we say they are perverted? I think so.
It's hilarious that these cost over-runs have caught Trump's attention, in light of the fact that he's the guy who bought Mar a Lago for $5 million, has claimed it to be worth as much as $2 billion with a "b", and appealed a Palm Beach County assessment of $18 million.
I completely agree with Andrew's analysis of the Powell situation. He has voiced my belief that Trump will use cost overruns or some such nonsense as a pretext to fire Powell. And the ever-obedient SCOTUS will say they are OK with him firing the Fed Chair.
Isn't remodeling the responsibility of the GSA, not the FRB?
Regardless, whoever is managing, it is an operations gut, not a finance and economics guy.
Yesterday Trump didn't even remember that he's the one who appointed Powell!
"Im surprised he got appointed", said Trump.
More evidence of his mental decline. Can't wait to see the multiple stories on this from the NYT.
While hosting The Daily Show Tuesday night, Jordan Klepper said, "In the case of Trump and the Epstein files, let's call our theory "Occam's Giant F**king Machete."
P.S. Don't miss Ezra Klein's interview of The Bulwark's own Will Sommer. They do a deep dive into Q Anon, Epstein, and how we got to this point.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-trump-cant-shake-jeffrey-epstein/id1548604447?i=1000717650442
Andrew: "But nobody should rest easy on the subject until this gambit about supposed Fed fraud is safely in the rearview mirror."
Far from resting easy, I'm at a point where I actively support Trump firing Powell. And once the Fed has been politicized and the policies directed by Trump inevitably destroy his voters, what's not to like about that outcome?
The MAGAe are a bunch of slackwitted totalitarians who believe Trump should control all aspects of American life. If democracy is, to quote H.L. Mencken, "the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard", I'm at the point where the "good and hard" should come sooner rather than later. Politicized fiscal policy is what the MAGAe want. Give it to them. And when their financial standings are ruined because #ETTD, it'll be a just result.
< sorry, my misanthropy is off the hook this week >
They've found themselves the "actual moron" Mencken spoke of...
I'm guessing you don't have a retirement account? Or you are many years away from retirement? Because firing Powell will cause the markets to rocket downward, just like they did on "Liberation Day".
I do have one. And should Powell be fired, it’ll take a hit like it did in April. That said, I want the lives of the MAGAe to be ruined as a result of their reflexive support of Trump. They deserve it.
And it puts the theocracy project on it's back foot.
While my misanthropy is very high I also rather like my job and my 401k and my house. So I will take a pass on all of us feeling the effects of MAGA stupidity on this one.
Now, cutting medicaid and killing rural hospitals because they wanted to own the libs? They voted for that.
We might not be able to avoid it, Robin. And yes, I value my career and my 401(k), I don't want those things to suffer. But if they have to, at least I'll take some satisfaction knowing that the MAGAe who don't have my education and credentials are going to get epically screwed.
All elements of the regime/cult of the orange narcissist-felon will fall in line, as they realize that shooting oneself in the foot is painful, as well as impairing future steps forward. They--all of them, like the senators who 'decry,' then vote in favor--have found ways to have it both ways: show concern, disapproval, then fold. They plumb new depths of hypocrisy daily.
Everyone in this Gadarene-swine-like rush to destroy a once great nation is involved: the so-called 'supreme' court enabling the orange narcissist-felon, and the AWOL Congress that has only a rubber stamp to deploy in favor of the cult, the Constitution be damned.
It seems that a few calm, clear, critical-thinking organizations and individuals--The Bulwark, The Contrarian, Heather Cox Richardson, Anne Applebaum--have seen through the horrors. Let us be thankful they speak up, constantly and consistently. But breaking the cult is difficult. For those who think it is easy, look up the psychodynamics of cult behavior.
It’s not easy, but Trump has forgotten, or maybe he hasn’t, that voters are borrowed and not owned. He has harnessed his coalition and made it ride, but there is no guarantee it will last. There’s a reason authoritarians try to avoid having elections as they know that coalitions shift and the group they put together at one point may fall apart. At the end of the day he’s afraid of his own voters and knows they might kick him out again as happened in 2020.
A reminder to Demented Donnie-Two Dolls: Time wounds all heels.
It’s quite the tell that when Trump has spoken about releasing materials in the files he qualifies it with ‘credible’ evidence. The MAGA faithful have always been anti-elitist and have seen Trump as on the outside too. Now he’s acting like he’s just another politician. Could this unraveling of an idiot conspiracy theory spell doom for Cheeto Mussolini?
I think he's throwing Pam Bondi under the bus with that "credible" stuff. She should be tweaking her resume.
I frankly think he is just seeding the idea that the files are NOT credible, justifying their decision not to release them.
We can only hope!