Who was that old, face-painted man that was hollering at me on TV last night? I felt … violated to a considerable extent, berated by someone for something that I didn’t do and made to feel like whatever is wrong with our country and this world, it always was and is someone else’s fault. I got the distinct impression that at any moment he was about to tell me to get the hell out of his taxpayer-funded yard and play ball somewhere else.
Ronald Reagan that guy ain’t. I’d settle for Gerald Ford. There are public speakers who know how to read the room, that gentle, reassuring tones and a visible sense of empathy are the way to bring people over to your side and create a sense of both community and inspired leadership. Then there are those like the current guy who seem to feel that bludgeoning you via a verbal dressing down is the way to move forward, a sort of “get out of my way” approach that makes you feel less like you’re on the team and more as if an obstacle to him realizing the vision that he has for himself and his agenda. The difference between the two is as stark as the degree to which our nation has changed direction, in relatively short time, and not for better, as more and more of our uncouth leaders assert their authority and perceived superiority (see: Hegseth, Pete).
One vision and vibe is democratic and inclusive. The other is autocratic and exclusive, telegraphing that there is a hierarchy of importance at play and you are not one of the Beautiful People. I’d say welcome back to high school, with its cliques and class structures, but this is so much more serious than that. Enjoy the bumpy ride, if you can. We collectively bought the ticket. We continue to pay the price.
What Trump does, how he speaks and what he says, is a result of his narcissism and the distortion of reality that it creates.
He cannot do empathy because he possesses none. He cannot even fake empathy. He grew up and spent his life either bullying others (when he can), or kissing their ass (when he can't bully) that is his standard mode of interaction.
Trump cares only for himself, will talk in the most part about himself (either about how awesome he is or what a victim he is and how nothing going wrong is his fault) and will only talk about other people in relation to how they have talked about him. All of these people think I am great!! And this evil people over here are deranged and should be in jail because they do not think I am great.
He is a souless, empty-hearted bag of bones and fat stewing in his own delusions and hatreds... and it shows every time he opens his mouth. The world will be a much better place when he shuffles his fat, sprayed-orange ass off this mortal coil.
My apologies for the vitriol, but I think it is warranted.
Yes, it is. And thank you for the candor. Last I checked, there is no prohibition against speaking the truth -- unless you are former military personnel telling others that they do not have to follow illegal directives.
He Would NOT have told you to ‘get the hell out of his taxpayer-funded yard and play ball somewhere else’. He would have kept your ball and sued you for 10 Trillion Dollars for trespassing…. Just sayin’.
I'm fine with any greeting, as a positive gesture of community. That said, I wasn't comfortable with last night's speech largely because it was so laden with negativity -- think Seinfeld, like Festivus and the airing of grievances.
If by "negativity," you mean "lying through his teeth," I fully agree. It was one lie after another. I was actually mildly astounded by both the content and the delivery style. He was barely in control and I could sense the emotional pressure in the background as he talked.
Something tells me this is the tone his father must have used to dress down Donald when his behavior was disappointing. Blame, scorn, and a brutal lack of compassion seem to be the guiding principles. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that affection and empathy were completely lacking in that family, especially after the stories of his mother's neglect and coldness. It explains Donald's constant need for adoration and his sad failure at winning any through tactics of extortion, whining, and begging. I wonder how much we owe our present state of national distress to Fred and Mary Anne Trump? While I can feel sorry for Donald, his juvenile, needy behavior makes it all too clear that putting a broken child in charge of the country was an unmitigated disaster. We see the proof every single day.
Well, high school eventually ends (thank God), but there’s no end in sight for Trump centric insanity. The Kennedy Center board just voted to rename it “The Trump Kennedy Center”.
I do appreciate the president screaming for 18 minutes that EVERYTHING IS FINE! EVERYTHING IS GREAT! Why in the world would you think otherwise as you just got back from holiday shopping and felt your soul leave your body when you saw the total. Guess we can have gifts or groceries but not both.
"Joe Biden destroyed pencils. He was a total disaster on pencils. And I must say, it's a disgrace. These poor people. They have, people come to me and they tell me about these people, who want a pencil, but they can't because they have to buy food and because of Sleepy Joe, they can't get a pencil. It's a total disaster. We're going to address the pencils problem, very strongly and powerfully. I think--and Caroline is this right? -- we'll have a plan for pencils in about, I think, two weeks."
"We have the best pencils. The very best pencils, the greatest pencils on Earth. And dolls, we have great dolls too, the best ever, China can't make them as good or as fast as we do, our American dolls. Everyone should have some, but not too many. I don't play with them, because it's not manly and I'm a guy, but you can. Play with the dolls, what the hell, it's probably fun for some people. But those pencils, they're the best. The very best pencils. Use them for your Christmas cards. They're great, and you can afford them now."
Yes, the best … until Sleepy Joe completely destroyed them. And then they were the worst. And I asked people, very rich people, very successful. You would know them. They don’t want me to give their names, but that’s okay. Very successful. And I said, look-it, these pencils. They’re bad. They’re very bad. And everyone knows it and we gotta, look, they gotta be, y’know, like better. And everyone agrees with me, so now we’re gonna look at this, the pencils, and you’re going to be very happy with what we do. It’s going to be very special, if I’m being honest with you.
Way too manly a guy to be caught with a KEN (especially the fashionistas) or an Alan doll- so GAY! The TRANNIES probably have at least 37 of them. Like they need that many! However, seriously considering some G I JOE'S as soon as Pete confirms they represent the WARRIOR ETHOS.
Regular pencils were not a dime a dozen but they were close. What you really wanted was one of those mechanical pencils, with the little quiver full of spare leads.
Sorry for you. Try using a pencil when there is no sharpener anywhere to be found. Knives do not work. Had an electric sharpener where I worked. Sounded like something other than a pencil was being ground up.
Bill: "No, it wasn’t a very, very important speech. It wasn’t even a slightly important speech. It was a pointless speech. It was a waste of 18 minutes of prime time."
I disagree with Bill here. The speech was important because it showed once and for all that Trump has lost control of himself. It's one thing for him to be crazy on Truth Social. It's entirely another to go on prime time television and deliver that "speech" like he was hopped up on various substances. Adderall? Cocaine? A bit of both?
An agile Democrat can use this to beat the GOP over the head. For me, it once again laid bare the moral culpability of the 77 million people who voted for this shitshow. We're where we are because deep down these 77 million know Trump's unfit but voted for him anyway because they hate the Democrats and Never Trumpers more than they love their country.
I agree wholeheartedly: "77 million people who voted for this shitshow". Would it be possible to offer these 77 million MAGA mouth-breathers their OWN country (like the US should have done at the end of the Civil War I)? maybe give them the state of Utah?
I'd rather give Texas back to Mexico, maybe we could use some of that "stolen" Venezuelan land that the Emperor keeps harping about for the Kingdom of Trumplandia?
In the 2000's I was actively birding/birdwatching and visited Texas for two birding tours and two other events. It can be a great place to watch birds,with the variety of habitats. I have good memories of the birds and people.
Now Texas is on my personal "don't fly" list. I just don't have any interest in spending money or time in a state whose leadership is actively hostile to representative democracy.
That is exactly what they voted for. This is what their true hearts desire was. Talking about the economy was just polite veneer to hide their true feelings which is F everyone but me.
“Mouthbreathers?” Making ignorant sweeping generalizations like that feed right onto Project 2025’s plan. Aka, “divide and conquer.” We are all better than they are trying to make Americans.
Diana, do you have a better description for a person who voted for Trump after the events of January 6, 2021? The man stole highly classified documents and stored them improperly, was convicted on 34 felonies in New York, and was found civilly liable for sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll. And yet 77 million people voted for him and he won the popular vote. I think it's entirely appropriate to make moral judgments about these people. They have agency, and they've proven they are fine with moral turpitude and incompetence so long as Trump pisses off the right people.
If we want to use language that's more anodyne but more pointed, I'd call them fools, and that's because they do not consider the consequences of their actions.
Fools gives the impression of aloofness that doesn't have malicious intent. MAGA are willfully ignorant racist bigots who are proud that they are uneducated. They are making their decisions out of malice without any understanding or desire to understand how those actions affect others because they do not care. MAGA = Narcissist. I don't care how much they preen about their families - they truly only care about themselves. Their spouse and kids are props in their lives - not people they truly give any shits about.
So, by the responses below I sense a moral self righteousness and arrogance. People who feel left out or struggle can fall prey to cult leaders. I have lived in rural, urban, suburban and “ghetto/bario” places. I also have lifelong and very personal experience with racism, sexism and abuse. It’s not about intelligence, education, class or faith. Make no mistake, MAGA is a cult.
The responses make my point. And making moral judgements about an entire group of people says as much about the person who makes that judgement as it does the person or people they are making judgements about. Beware becoming the very thing you profess to hate.
"Beware becoming the very thing you profess to hate."
A few years ago, a former congressional aide named Mike Lofgren wrote a piece about his home state of Ohio and its fortunes since The Great Recession. The photo that accompanied the piece was a photo of two overweight white guys wearing tee shirts that said "I'd Rather Be a Russian Than a Democrat." Put a pin in that for a moment.
The difference between me and your median red hat is I understand that I have agency and I'm accountable for my actions. I am responsible to my employer to provide the best technical work I can muster. I am responsible to my wife to be the best husband I can be and to make sure she feels loved and safe. And ultimately, I'm responsible to myself to not do things that hurt myself or anyone else. With that in mind, I have never voted to erode the personal liberties of people I admittedly detest. I may have contempt for them, but they are citizens just like me, and they should have the same rights, liberties, and opportunities as I do. You have to understand that MAGA is not a political project. It is a moral project, and at the heart of it is making it not just acceptable but laudable to use state power to go after those who aren't MAGA. When someone on X posts approving of ICE beating the shit out of people -- "This is what I voted for" -- do I or do I not have the right to make judgments about their character? Do you really believe I should not judge people like Laura Loomer, or Kurt Schlichter for their actions and their words?
If you saw me run my carriage into an elderly woman in a grocery store that caused her to fall, and instead of helping her up, I laughed and told her to fuck off, you'd correctly think that I was an asshole. So how is that any difference than judging someone who loves what Stephen Miller is doing, or what Pete Hegseth has done to women before becoming SecDef? Or Marco Rubio overseeing the end of USAID which has led to 600K deaths? Or Robert Kennedy Jr. overseeing the destruction of public health in the United States? The insanity is the point. The cruelty is the point. The moral depravity is the point. And MAGA *loves* it.
Maybe you're afraid that judging MAGA for what they're condoning and/or supporting will harden them and make them double down. I think that's ridiculous. I didn't make them vote for Trump. They have agency and they are accountable for their actions. And since they have the right to vote how they choose, then **I have the right to make moral judgments about their character.** If that makes me "arrogant", I've been called worse.
Back to the guys with the "I'd Rather Be a Russian..." shirts. Given what has transpired since February 2022, i.e. Russia launching the biggest land war in Europe since World War II that has led to thousands upon thousands of dead Ukrainian men, women, and children, what do you think the probability of those men rethinking their position is?
One, 1) lived and worked in Ohio for 8 years, sorry but sweeping generalizations again, really, “overweight white guys” with stupid tshirts is your example? 2) apples and oranges comparing someone you physically can call out and confront in a grocery store and a “magahat.” 3) I don’t think it will make them double down, again interesting assumption you make about me. I’ve had no problem calling people out for inappropriate or abusive behavior, whether they be my “superior” at work or a person who runs into an old lady with a shopping cart, or the domestic abuser of a client.
My question to you is why to you think any and everyone who may have called themselves MAGA or voted for Trump will always be caught in the thrall of their original choice? We already have seen voters change their minds significantly in recent elections this year in red states, sometimes by double digits. Whatever you think, even the biggest MAGA, MTG, changed her mind and is calling him out. And I live with folks who believed Trump’s promises and are appalled by what is happening. But many of them are struggling with how to admit they were conned and the last thing some one trying to leave a cult (which MAGA is) is to be told how poor their choices were and what terrible people they are.
If you are tired of dealing with folks you disagree with and judge, and are angry at because they disappointed you, have at it. Virtue signal all you need to. But, to condemn others doesn’t help any of us to address the issues. Frankly, If we had done that in the Civil Rights movement nothing would ever have changed. If anyone has a right to be respond as you suggest are non white folks who have been enslaved, had their land taken away and/or put into internment camps for nor other reason than that they were deemed less than.
Your argument would make perfect sense for about 3 years into the first Trump presidency, but I'm sorry, in 2025...after an 18 minute speech of pure lies and our POTUS once again touting prices being decreased by more than 100%....I think you have it wrong. People still supporting him are NOT going to be influenced (enough) by their personal relationships. They apparently need to feel it viscerally and deeply.
I have been active on social media calling this stuff out since 2017 and I have, more than once, called out anti-Trumpers for being like the MAGA in their responses.
Calling a group of people "mouth breathers" isn't something I personally would do, but man....it doesn't even come close to me to being self-righteous or arrogant in the face of what we are dealing with...in the MAGA movement.
You know how close we are to Trump making some moves and calling Dems "terrorists"? Do you think the MAGAs will come to our defense at that point? I'm not so sure....
I think you're pointing to the wrong enemy and the timing is all wrong. Can we wait to see if our Republic survives before you're doom casting the anti-Trump movement?
I personally know a lot of Trump voters who are intelligent, decent people. The problem is they have been brainwashed by FOX News. While we see all of the disturbing truths about how highly unqualified and deranged Trump is, many FOX viewers NEVER got a truthful picture because FOX NEVER puts anything on their shows that portray that side of him. What I blame them for is not being curious or smart enough to seek out information outside the FOX bubble. They were complacent, but not awful. I can be mad at their ignorance, without branding them with awful names, even though I understand it sometimes helps just to vent in that way.
Not one response that I have read here has "professed" to hate anything, or anyone. Describing things, including people, as they present themselves does not require "hate"- it simply requires observation.
Ignorant is what MAGAs are...not those fighting it. Restraint hasn't been working for 8 years...we're all a little weary of "holding back"...it's not ignorance...it's exhaustion.
Dude, how many MAGAs do you know or have any real relationships with? And, those of use who have been fighting for civil, women’s and LGBTQ rights for 60+ years know what exhaustion is. No one has ever characterized me once in my life for not calling out people for hypocrisy (relatives, superiors, organizations, etc.). But, in those decades of experience I have also learned that people’s inexplicable “choices” come from a multitude of influences and personal experiences. You don’t reach anyone or change their minds by being unwilling to see them as an individual human being with their own wounds and losses
I get you, but do you really think that this thing called MAGA is going to be defeated by personal relationships? I have PLENTY of MAGAs that I know and regardless of approach...most of them are hostile and brainwashed by conservative media.
These are people that I attended church and bible studies with. These are people I served for years in the Navy with.
I worked for several years attempting to have reasonable conversations with them but it was completely futile.
Do you think the Nazi's would have been stopped with good personal relationships? This is much bigger and uglier than that. This is GROUP think that has metastasized with social media.
Calling anti-Trumpers ignorant is about the least effective form of communication I've seen...so you're working from behind with me...no matter how much experience with previous movements. This one is different and far more than a personal relationship thing. I strive to maintain the personal relationship thing, but it's pretty clear that most MAGAs do not. I have lost several friends for being direct and, as far as I'm concerned, it was worth it because I wasn't being hostile...just honest about Trump and MAGA. I was never personal (by name) about it. They cannot say the same...I've been called names, accused of becoming a liberal, it's all simply name calling by ignorant and immature people who are being conned and super-charged by social media.
And...by the way...calling them mouth-breathers on a site they will never see...seems pretty darn nice to me after what I've been called....directly.
You are absolutely correct on the brainwashing part. That is what makes them refuse to listen to common sense. It is very sad. I will say that about the brainwashed ones. There are others, though, who revel in Trump's hatred, and you are right, mouth-breathers is a pretty mild adjective to describe them.
that's fine for parts of real human interaction. hey, this is politics, not
real life
think of an attorney lying in court to make a buck, he is a paid mouthpiece, politicians are also in some ways, they have fans, followers, and some who actually fall into a trap, loyalty it is NOT, more like a score settling, not like how one speaks to someone at work. this guy, this slimey guy, if you can tell me trump is not slippery or slimey, I would laugh. he deserves zero respect and he damn well knows it. The votersperhaps they create, many forms and reasons, logic is truly not a big part in many persons choices, they get attracted. two of my siblings have transformed year by year, getting more and more entranced, these are not dumb persons, I know them. Now, I'm sure they will NOT revert to who they once were, it is an infection. If you are blind to that, you have not really had a down to the
level conversation with the bulk of trumplicans/fools
As a retired lawyer you picked the wrong example, and you seem to make generalizations and assumptions about others. You may not realize it, but your arguments seem no more logical or persuasive than those you seem to despise.
too much oil in ND -- MAGAts would try to join Saudi Arabia. That requires them to bring in a theocracy (to fit in ) and what would the innocent folks who just live there do ? They'd have to get past the South Dakotan and Canadian border guards -- Minnesota would have enacted a ban on North Dakota refugees .
And Mr. Putin told Susie Wiles that she had to tell Puppet Trump that he had to do this speech. Comrade Wiles has the the files on Trump - and he knows it.
When I first started suspecting that my loyalty to the GOP was unfounded (circa 2017)...I was watching TV on a Sunday afternoon and came upon one of those very boring intellectual PBS type of interviews where 2 very old political experts were talking about the rise of Trumpism. Honestly...I don't even remember who they were but they obviously knew what they were talking about.
The interviewee started by saying that all of this started with Newt Gingrich which I was like "Whaaaaaatttt?" because I hadn't actually been paying attention. He made very solid points about Gingrich sort of took the road of "forget about our policy; let's just attack theirs" and I do remember some GOP folks saying that this was a dark road to head down at the time, but I didn't really know what they were talking about.
Fast forward to 2025 and I agree wholeheartedly and can really see how the demonization politics has led to Trump and MAGA and their inability to objectively see what's going on because they are too consumed with hating the Left.
I remember those years clearly enough. Newt Gingrich's strategy as an ambitious younger congressman was worked out in collaboration (I seem to recall) with a leading Republican pollster and opinion-shaping expert, a freelance political operative named Frank Luntz who is still around too. They cooked up and put out to Republican House members a list of choice words to brand Democrats with every single time they mentioned Democrats, you know, along the lines of treacherous, disloyal, dishonest, etc., etc., maybe as many as three dozen slurs, to be used constantly. I could look it up on the Internet now, I'm sure, but it would make me sick.
There'd never been anything like this before, and that was Gingrich's new style of politics, and the truth-free, smash-mouth offense worked in 1994 when the GOP took control of the House for the first time in 40 years, as the votes of white southern men swung decisively and permanently (?) to the Republican side, culminating a trend that was well on its way already. Men like Newt Gingrich, northern Georgia's own. And the attack-dog style of the Republicans ever since was the fruit of his labors. Damn him forever.
Damn McConnell too. His pathological quest for revenge (re: Robert Bork) has led to filling the judiciary with right-wing judges - some of whom lack experience and/or competence - who have contributed to trump's free rein.
Yes, and terms like "death tax" to make it seem as if the inheritance taxes were paid by everyone—because everyone dies—when they really affected a small portion of Americans.
I remember thinking that this was the GOP’s revenge on Nixon’s resignation. They never could accept that Nixon was corrupt and deserved impeachment. If McConnell was as powerful then, he would have argued that since the American people voted for Nixon, they should let him run out his term, and then let the voters decide.
Once the tapes were released, the GOP's support for Nixon tanked. The House Judiciary Committee then favored impeachment. Nixon knew he no longer could govern & he resigned.
Yep. I remember. It’s the 90’s crowd that were fixated getting the next elected Democrat, Bill Clinton. He was the upstart who beat Bush, and Republicans wanted to even the score somehow. This was Gingrich’s group. Started with Whitewater, an investment deal that the Clintons lost money on but nevertheless they were part of it because of their association with the firm’s executives. Brought in Kenneth Starr, and he never left. Once Whitewater was settled he found something else to go to Congress and say he should investigate, and they always agreed, up until they found Monica Lewinsky and they thought they struck gold.
Which GOP folks criticized this back then? Because they were all on board even if they found him and his ilk distasteful. It became party over country during Reagan and accelerated with the rise of talk radio with Rush and the Rush wannabes as well as the emergence of Fox News.
It wasn't a coup for noble reasons. They didn't like his compromises with Bill Clinton and the ethics violation investigation was drawing too much attention and making them look bad.
Can we agree that they weren't part of the Newt Gingrich fan club? Certainly their ire wasn't on a single issue. Joe Scarborough certainly touts the 1990's compromises as good politics these days.
OMG In todays political world I assumed it was a violent coup against the US government not the takedown of an evil hypocrite who happened to be Speaker .
I have a memory from waaaaay back in 1994 listening to NPR as Fred Grandy -- outgoing Iowa House Republican previously known for his role as Gopher on the Love Boat -- say he wanted nothing to do with Newt Gingrich.
Was never a member of the GOP, but always understood and respected many of their points. That was until I saw Newt Gingrich and the hate he was selling. Here we are.
Yes, Newt and Rush Limbaugh. I will never forgive Trump for defiling the Presidential Medal of Freedom by awarding it to that piece of garbage. He did more to fuel hatred of others than any person I know.
My father vowed never to vote for anyone who was a member of the GOP after Ollie North and Iran Contra. He said to me - I thought they had changed after Nixon, but I was wrong. He proudly had a sign supporting Obama in his SW VA yard in 2008. He was right - they have gotten worse.
Thanks for sharing that. I'm still coming to terms with Reagan. In my heart of hearts, I sincerely don't think he knew the can of worms he was opening...nor do I think he would ever have been a MAGA...but I have been wrong so many times about this movement and people I thought I knew.
Our government gets in trouble when those in charge think they know better than everyone else. Trump's regime sure has demonstrated how a corrupt leader attracts corrupt followers like nothing else.
I believe Reagan did open three cans of worms and not unintentionally. The first can he opened was by popularizing the mostly racist derogatory caricatures of poor people - young bucks buying T-bone steaks. Second, his little invasions and interferences in Central America and the Caribbean - like Grenada. I see a corollary between Reagan’s actions and Trumps version of the Monroe doctrine. Finally, he and the GOP’s condemnation of those not like them and the embrace of evangelicals with a performative morality. This feeds the AIDS crisis, charter schools, the prosperity gospel, policing women’s behavior, etc., etc.
Gingrich, one of the original "deep thinker" cosplayers and source of multiple divisions. . Surrounded by other cosplayers and hypocrites of the time. Taken to new heights in this "It will be dramatic" (Melania) administration of the absurd, voted in by people who watched a Mark Burnett show devoid of the mold scented "office" and "needed to be renovated" apartment in Trump Tower that was Donald Trump at the time. His cast ready crew of cosplayers ready at his bidding.
Gingrich is a brain worm. Maybe because I lived in Atlanta in the 80's. Here is one from my files. @newtgingrich capitalized on the innovative 80’s 24-7 CSPAN coverage of the Congress, speaking to an empty chamber, while formulating a list of words to call all those who opposed him. Mitch McConnell told him to cool it. CSPAN started showing empty chairs.
He was a fast talker and often sounded sensible at first. When you had a chance to actually think about what he said, you realized it was garbage. I wonder if someone paid him to praise that 18-minute run on sentence, I mean lie, last night. Maybe he and Trump can be roommates at the “home.”
Mona wrote: "The left’s atrocity detectors are tuned to a different channel. They are activated by Israeli wrongdoing (which is real) but quiescent in the face of anti-Israel massacres such as October 7th"
Mona, who, exactly, was untroubled by the October 7th massacre? To claim 'the left' doesn't care about it is BS. I'd place myself as left-of-center, and I was horrified by that attack.
I’m getting really tired of having these awful views attributed to all of us on the left. The vast majority of us are horrified by these attacks and feel deep sorrow for the victims and their families.
I understand where Mona is coming from here, although I'm not sure the extent of it. I'm in some progressive circles locally. There were definitely people who were basically silent after Oct. 7 and then moved directly to condemnation of Israel for its reaction to the attack or for its history of oppression of Palestinians prior to the attack. These are people I know, so it's not as if they really think that Oct 7 was ok... More that there is something communicated in the silence/condemnation about which sorts of people get their sympathy and action.
I really don't know how much this generalized to a wider population or to political and cultural leaders, though. I gather it wasn't only in my local area. I think we all understand that the way Jews experienced it that way - silence from people when they expected compassionate outreach from, followed by condemnation - feels like very harsh victim blaming and no one would want to experience that after a tragedy. I imagine that's part of why feelings have run high.
Twice we gave them everything they said they wanted..West Bank and Gaza a Capital in East Jerusalem and we got Intifada and bus bombings because what they really wanted was US gone! Remember that any Palestinian leader who signs a peace deal that does not include "The Right of Return" (to the land between the river and the sea) is DOA. The leader of the Palestinians during WWII stayed in Berlin, saying Hitler had the right idea about how to handle the Jews! So the history is an obstacle to Peace.
I'm a lefty, and I remain horrified by Oct. 7. I understood that Israel's response would be fierce. If the United States had suffered such a brutal attack, we also would have rained hellfire on our enemies. But I didn't think Israel would lay waste to Gaza and cause the death and suffering of millions. At some point, the only strategic value to glean from what they were doing was not simply to eliminate Hamas, but as many Palestinians as possible.
I read some history the other day, while in Istanbul while still using the other name, Constantinople persons were at that point stating out loud, you will need to
clear out as many ' rats ' right away. Referring the ' arab' folks being present,
none of this is new. My pa always said it is a twisted snarl and has been for hundreds of years, in the Middle East, I sometimes would argue things can change, he was a frequent reader of Job and all of the International Version and King James, and a deep thinker.
I think the sentiment for the attack was obscured about 2 weeks later when the discussion of ideas like Israel should be dismantled got a lot of publicity.
As the child of Palestinian immigrants, I need to respond to this statement:
"Perhaps some overwrought Israel defenders do overuse accusations of antisemitism, but it’s also true that antisemites use any perceived crime or error by Israel as permission for open season on Jews worldwide."
It is absolutely true.
Antisemitism is abhorrent. It is evil bigotry at a level that is practically unrivaled in Western civilization.
Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is also abhorrent. But Israel's actions are not and should not ever be equated with "the Jews."
I can criticise Israel every day, and I do. But I do so knowing that Israel is not "the Jews" and Jews are not Israel.
Jews are human beings who share all of the beauty and contradictions and heroics and foibles of all human beings. If I praise or criticize a Jew, it's because I feel that that individual is worthy of praise or criticism. That human being is not an avatar for world Jewry.
Examples: Netanyahu is despicable human garbage. Rob Reiner was a brilliant, caring, loving, creative man. Neither of those men's attributes has fundamentally anything to do with their Jewishness (apart from the general influence that everyone's cultural identity has on us). Netanyahu isn't despicable because he's Jewish. Reiner wasn't brilliant because he was Jewish.
What we all need to do is constantly push back on "overwrought Israel defenders [who] do overuse accusations of antisemitism" and "antisemites [who] use any perceived crime or error by Israel as permission for open season on Jews worldwide."
Remember, the US is majority Christian, but we don't hold Christians worldwide responsible for the batshit crazy, evil things the US government is currently doing, do we?
Will had the best insight on the post-Trump speech livestream last night that he reiterated in today's MS, that is Trump relying on all the *world* leaders telling him that America has the **hottest** economy going now; yes, all the Emirate sheiks, body-chopping Princes, and up sucking (for purposes of getting lower tariffs) EU and Asian leaders are the measure by which we are the GREATEST in world history! Not the small business owners, construction company owners, coal miners, EV cancelled factory workers or even the $2 billion hit Ford Motor Company executives - their opinions are all. wait for it - a hoax.
Last night was just the most recent billboard example of why the world derides us. Our president is plainly incompetent, cognitively shallow, and operationally incapable of fulfilling the demands of the office. The world fears us for a darker, more destabilizing reason. We are feared because a substantial segment of the American populace has demonstrated not merely tolerance for this incapacity, but an active preference for it.
An unfit executive is a spectacle. A society that shows its unfitness by persistently elevating him, is a countdown to disaster.
Trump’s insistence that America is “the hottest country in the world” because Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman told him so is an inadvertent disclosure. He is not governing a constitutional republic, he is currying favor with autocrats, mistaking sycophantic flattery for legitimacy and trying to launder it back to voters as evidence of national success. Strongmen praise him precisely because he is manipulable, incapable of distinguishing personal affirmation from state interest. When economic credibility is outsourced to dictators, the abdication is complete.
The rot, however, extends beyond the individual. The world mocks the man because he is weak. It fears the country because too many Americans have shown they are willing to be governed by weakness, provided it is performative, vindictive, and reassuring. That is not strength misapplied. It is incapacity normalized, and it is inherently dangerous, and it is our reality.
So many MAGAs are "all in" at this point...simply because of their pride and being unwilling to admit they may have been wrong. It's not a conscious thing...it's a subconscious thing. Their ego blocks what they know to be true.
Like I've said before...1/2 the books written about the Trump era will be found in the Psychology section of the bookstore.
More important is that no one who can say what you wrote, Patrick, will do it. Mainstream Media, Banks, Wall Street, sane CEOs (if they do exist) are hiding. Congress has been AWOL. Many are leaving Congress, like the rats on a sinking ship, after having scuttled said ship in the first place. But the American people are actually getting stronger. Instead of worrying about absent leaders, there is a surge of people protesting, demonstrating, writing petitions, calling representatives and donating money to further their belief in our Democracy and our Constitution. The next No Kings March will be greater than the last!
Ahmed Al Ahmed! Way to go brother! We could have used you in Uvalde, Texas. Anytime you want to visit US and I can understand why you may not want to, we'll have a whole bunch of real Americans there to thank you.
Life is short. I watched a cricket match between England and Australia rather than waste my time in watching or listening to Trump. Props to Will, Tim, and Andrew for keeping us updated in the immediate aftermath.
As experts pick through the inflation release today, they are noting that for certain things like housing, BLS simply assumed the value was ZERO for the month of October. Incredible how the data can be so favorable if your assumption due to lack of collection is that the data would read zero. You can’t expect any more from the genius who said, “if we stop testing, the cases will soon drop to zero.”
I didn't watch either, but I'm guessing I would have watched both in bewilderment because I don't know anything about cricket...but I do know a lot about Trump...well...that's why I didn't watch him.
You know there are whole subfields of statistics that deal with missing data , and even computer packages that estimate . And those who work at BLS know this but were afraid or forbidden to do the right thing
Last night, Trump said gas is now $1.99 a gallon. Because Trump doesn't drive (and must not look out the window of the Beast), he failed to recognize that gas stations, which are conveniently located at major intersections, post gas prices on big, lighted signs.
Last night's Trump...thing (call that a speech???) is another item contributing to my disinterest when people talk or write about what Democrats should do, should have done, fail to do, or generally act stupid, wrong, or out of touch.
If what I saw last night resonates with anyone, or is defended by anyone, or isn't disqualifying for anyone then I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's overly important that people act or behave anyway at all.
That was just another notch in the seemingly infinite depths to which his supporters will allow themselves to be taken by this guy. There is no bottom.
I noticed that some media treated it as "news". But how is lying and masturbation in front of cameras "news", when it comes to Trump?
It's not.
So there is no reason for me to waste my time watching this.
It's often said that if you want to live a virtuous life, surround yourself by "spiritual friends". Trump and much of the GOP are the opposite: they pollute our minds constantly by spewing the most non-virtuous thoughts and negative emotions.
So no thanks.
We have a civic society to rebuild. I'll focus on that instead.
The legacy/mainstream media has sanewashed this guy and allowed him to play by diffrerent rules and different standards than anyone else since the campaign began a decade ago. Outlets like the NYT (no, they aren't alone) have much to answer for.
Exactly. We had another example in the NYT "report" of this address again, when it wrote that... Biden had claimed the economy was doing great when people didn't "feel it" and now Trump claims the same thing when people don't feel it either.
Crucial fact omitted: it was OBJECTIVELY PROVEN that the economy was doing great by the time Biden left, and it is objectively proven that right now, there is inflation again and the unemployment rate is increasing again.
It's so horrible to see how even the NYT capitulates, again and again, rather than offering solid, decent journalism on issues that matter so much.
Mona: the left has not been silent about Oct 7 or real antisemitism in America. Rather we are attuned to the gross power imbalances of Palestinian civilians wrt Israel, as well as the right wing opportunism to describe any criticism of Israel as "anti-Semitic" and corresponding 1st amendment crackdowns on college campuses. You are at the Bulwark now, which I think should avoid flimsy both-sides arguments.
I'm sorry, but you can't discount 75 years of Arabs' bloodthirsty opposition to Israel, beginning with their rejection of the original two state plan in 1948. Fast forward to 1967, 1973. Anwar Sadat was killed because he dared to make peace with Israel. The Bedouin guards of King Hussein of Jordan foiled numerous plots against him. Fast forward to the PLO's hijacking of the Achille Lauro (PLO = Push Leon Overboard (the guy in the wheelchair)) and then to multiple Intifadas by the murderous Yasser Arafat who rejected more peace overtures. In modern times, there are the multiple Arab terror groups who still actively plot against Israel: Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Islamic Jihad et al. And their very short sighted supporters on American college campuses.
Netanyahu has kept his Gaza war going because he's as corrupt as Trump, and is facing charges. Bibi caters to the far right orthodox religious parties in Israel to retain his power; the ones who shoot Arab civilians and steal their land on the West Bank. In short, Israel isn't perfect. But peace can be there. Also don't forget the couple million Arabs who are Israeli citizens. How many Jews are citizens of Gulf countries?
Steve what you leave out is that the Arab nations never cared about the Palestinians. Some of those nations used the arrival of Israel as an excuse to drive out large Jewish populations. None of them treated the many Palestinian refugees with any respect or did much to help them reestablish their lives. On top of that Israel’s treatment of Jews coming from nations like Iraq, Egypt or Morocco was really not ideal. I say all sides are culpable for acts that defy human dignity.
Agree with the first part. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to leave the Ottoman Empire relatively intact after WW I. Maybe all the bloodshed could have been avoided. An interesting alternate history question for a fiction writer like Dr. Harry Turtledove to write about.
I’m not sure how much better the treatment of the Palestinians was under the Ottomans than under Israel. The accounts of the earlier Zionist settlers indicate a region of poverty oppression and neglect.
There were positive changes within the Ottoman government beginning in 1908, at least in Constantinople (now Istanbul). But they still allowed themselves to get dragged into the war.
It would take a lot of digging to find out how those changes applied to the provinces, especially far away locations like Palestine and Mesopotamia. I own "The Decline and Fall of the Ottoman Empire," Alan Palmer, Barnes & Noble Books, 1994. Haven't read it for a while and no time today. It does cover the arrival of Zionists in the area & negotiations with the then sultan.
it’s nice that you care about the history I feel as if the current debates don’t allow for all the reason so many of the peoples involved don’t have any trust in each other or hope that it can ever be different.
Who was that old, face-painted man that was hollering at me on TV last night? I felt … violated to a considerable extent, berated by someone for something that I didn’t do and made to feel like whatever is wrong with our country and this world, it always was and is someone else’s fault. I got the distinct impression that at any moment he was about to tell me to get the hell out of his taxpayer-funded yard and play ball somewhere else.
Ronald Reagan that guy ain’t. I’d settle for Gerald Ford. There are public speakers who know how to read the room, that gentle, reassuring tones and a visible sense of empathy are the way to bring people over to your side and create a sense of both community and inspired leadership. Then there are those like the current guy who seem to feel that bludgeoning you via a verbal dressing down is the way to move forward, a sort of “get out of my way” approach that makes you feel less like you’re on the team and more as if an obstacle to him realizing the vision that he has for himself and his agenda. The difference between the two is as stark as the degree to which our nation has changed direction, in relatively short time, and not for better, as more and more of our uncouth leaders assert their authority and perceived superiority (see: Hegseth, Pete).
One vision and vibe is democratic and inclusive. The other is autocratic and exclusive, telegraphing that there is a hierarchy of importance at play and you are not one of the Beautiful People. I’d say welcome back to high school, with its cliques and class structures, but this is so much more serious than that. Enjoy the bumpy ride, if you can. We collectively bought the ticket. We continue to pay the price.
What Trump does, how he speaks and what he says, is a result of his narcissism and the distortion of reality that it creates.
He cannot do empathy because he possesses none. He cannot even fake empathy. He grew up and spent his life either bullying others (when he can), or kissing their ass (when he can't bully) that is his standard mode of interaction.
Trump cares only for himself, will talk in the most part about himself (either about how awesome he is or what a victim he is and how nothing going wrong is his fault) and will only talk about other people in relation to how they have talked about him. All of these people think I am great!! And this evil people over here are deranged and should be in jail because they do not think I am great.
He is a souless, empty-hearted bag of bones and fat stewing in his own delusions and hatreds... and it shows every time he opens his mouth. The world will be a much better place when he shuffles his fat, sprayed-orange ass off this mortal coil.
My apologies for the vitriol, but I think it is warranted.
Yes, it is. And thank you for the candor. Last I checked, there is no prohibition against speaking the truth -- unless you are former military personnel telling others that they do not have to follow illegal directives.
You give credence to the meaning of try to live your life in a manner that won't make people long for your death.
I think you meant "mortal coil," but "moral" kind of works. :)
Ya I did. I typo a lot. Thanks for catching it. Fixed.
perfecto
He Would NOT have told you to ‘get the hell out of his taxpayer-funded yard and play ball somewhere else’. He would have kept your ball and sued you for 10 Trillion Dollars for trespassing…. Just sayin’.
No, he would have designated you a terrorist and called in Navy Seal 6 to eliminate you AND the ball - no evidence need be retained.
And no one needs to see the video, since it’s classified and was perfect.
And the way he growled Merry Christmas and Happy New Year at the end was fitting .
MERRY CHRISTMAS! Deutch; you know you can say that now, DON'T YOU!
Yes, indeed, and a most merry and enjoyable Christmas to you and yours as well, Gerald.
Does that mean it's not allowable to wish you, and all, a Happy Solstice?
I'm fine with any greeting, as a positive gesture of community. That said, I wasn't comfortable with last night's speech largely because it was so laden with negativity -- think Seinfeld, like Festivus and the airing of grievances.
If by "negativity," you mean "lying through his teeth," I fully agree. It was one lie after another. I was actually mildly astounded by both the content and the delivery style. He was barely in control and I could sense the emotional pressure in the background as he talked.
It was a bit of let down in the end. It had felt like it was building up to a stroke.
You won't get those gestures from DJT!
" Go ahead, make my day!" and "Get off my lawn!"
Something tells me this is the tone his father must have used to dress down Donald when his behavior was disappointing. Blame, scorn, and a brutal lack of compassion seem to be the guiding principles. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that affection and empathy were completely lacking in that family, especially after the stories of his mother's neglect and coldness. It explains Donald's constant need for adoration and his sad failure at winning any through tactics of extortion, whining, and begging. I wonder how much we owe our present state of national distress to Fred and Mary Anne Trump? While I can feel sorry for Donald, his juvenile, needy behavior makes it all too clear that putting a broken child in charge of the country was an unmitigated disaster. We see the proof every single day.
Well, high school eventually ends (thank God), but there’s no end in sight for Trump centric insanity. The Kennedy Center board just voted to rename it “The Trump Kennedy Center”.
I do appreciate the president screaming for 18 minutes that EVERYTHING IS FINE! EVERYTHING IS GREAT! Why in the world would you think otherwise as you just got back from holiday shopping and felt your soul leave your body when you saw the total. Guess we can have gifts or groceries but not both.
And I wasn’t even buying dolls or pencils!
I asked my 78-year-old dad if there was a time when Americans worried about the price of pencils, and he couldn't think of one.
Your dad clearly just lived in the golden age of pencils! That must have been nice! 🤣
"Joe Biden destroyed pencils. He was a total disaster on pencils. And I must say, it's a disgrace. These poor people. They have, people come to me and they tell me about these people, who want a pencil, but they can't because they have to buy food and because of Sleepy Joe, they can't get a pencil. It's a total disaster. We're going to address the pencils problem, very strongly and powerfully. I think--and Caroline is this right? -- we'll have a plan for pencils in about, I think, two weeks."
--Donald J. Trump
You forgot, “ They came up to me, with tears in their eyes, and said Sir…” That’s too important to leave out.
I bow my head in shame. You are correct.
You beat me to that!
"We have the best pencils. The very best pencils, the greatest pencils on Earth. And dolls, we have great dolls too, the best ever, China can't make them as good or as fast as we do, our American dolls. Everyone should have some, but not too many. I don't play with them, because it's not manly and I'm a guy, but you can. Play with the dolls, what the hell, it's probably fun for some people. But those pencils, they're the best. The very best pencils. Use them for your Christmas cards. They're great, and you can afford them now."
The best in the history of this country! No one has ever seen anything like them!
Yes, the best … until Sleepy Joe completely destroyed them. And then they were the worst. And I asked people, very rich people, very successful. You would know them. They don’t want me to give their names, but that’s okay. Very successful. And I said, look-it, these pencils. They’re bad. They’re very bad. And everyone knows it and we gotta, look, they gotta be, y’know, like better. And everyone agrees with me, so now we’re gonna look at this, the pencils, and you’re going to be very happy with what we do. It’s going to be very special, if I’m being honest with you.
There is lead in American pencils!
Way too manly a guy to be caught with a KEN (especially the fashionistas) or an Alan doll- so GAY! The TRANNIES probably have at least 37 of them. Like they need that many! However, seriously considering some G I JOE'S as soon as Pete confirms they represent the WARRIOR ETHOS.
Omg, that's the pencil quote?!? Does he actually hear the words coming out of his own mouth? Unreal.... And yet... Real.
Regular pencils were not a dime a dozen but they were close. What you really wanted was one of those mechanical pencils, with the little quiver full of spare leads.
I HATED mechanical pencils. Still do.
Sorry for you. Try using a pencil when there is no sharpener anywhere to be found. Knives do not work. Had an electric sharpener where I worked. Sounded like something other than a pencil was being ground up.
We would sharpen up the regular pencils, then fight with them in the boys' bathroom. It was a little like Heidelberg.
I love my mechanical pencils! but then again I am a CPA and we love us our pencils.
Always the same degree of sharpness.
That's because the great graphite shortage of 1945 was just before his time. I know because Donald Trump, student of history, tells me so.
I hope you have enough left over for at least one bottle of Trump Vodka, which comes in varieties like: Bile, Venom, and Filet-O-Fish. Bottoms up!
🤣🤣🤣Maybe I can barter for the Trump vodka with someone who has extra pencils!
"There is nothing wrong with the reactor! Return to your homes!"
That steam is just a relief valve, ... operating as it should.
There was a great comment on the WAPO story about Trump saying that 37 dolls aren’t necessary. “I only need one doll ….and some pins.”
The way that I just burst out laughing 🤣
Just search for “Trump voodoo doll” online. There’s all sorts of them!
Bill: "No, it wasn’t a very, very important speech. It wasn’t even a slightly important speech. It was a pointless speech. It was a waste of 18 minutes of prime time."
I disagree with Bill here. The speech was important because it showed once and for all that Trump has lost control of himself. It's one thing for him to be crazy on Truth Social. It's entirely another to go on prime time television and deliver that "speech" like he was hopped up on various substances. Adderall? Cocaine? A bit of both?
An agile Democrat can use this to beat the GOP over the head. For me, it once again laid bare the moral culpability of the 77 million people who voted for this shitshow. We're where we are because deep down these 77 million know Trump's unfit but voted for him anyway because they hate the Democrats and Never Trumpers more than they love their country.
I agree wholeheartedly: "77 million people who voted for this shitshow". Would it be possible to offer these 77 million MAGA mouth-breathers their OWN country (like the US should have done at the end of the Civil War I)? maybe give them the state of Utah?
Utah is beautiful. How about Texas? Texas has many good points, but...
Thinking about Gen. Sheridan's verdict on Texas.... "If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell."
Let Texas revert to an independent country. They can become a white nationalist utopia (after deporting all the Hispanics and bringing back slavery. )
It would be fun to watch them getting conquered by Mexico. Again.
I'd rather give Texas back to Mexico, maybe we could use some of that "stolen" Venezuelan land that the Emperor keeps harping about for the Kingdom of Trumplandia?
In the 2000's I was actively birding/birdwatching and visited Texas for two birding tours and two other events. It can be a great place to watch birds,with the variety of habitats. I have good memories of the birds and people.
Now Texas is on my personal "don't fly" list. I just don't have any interest in spending money or time in a state whose leadership is actively hostile to representative democracy.
agree, had two nice trips, not again
Please don't send them here. We are chock full of them. Be merciful please!
Florida. They can have Florida.
1000%
Oh...great call! They can make as many Alligator Alacatraz facilities as they want and put themselves in them!
I suspect of the 77 million had no idea what they were voting for. They were obsessed with eggs and bigotry.
That is exactly what they voted for. This is what their true hearts desire was. Talking about the economy was just polite veneer to hide their true feelings which is F everyone but me.
To me it's a matter of peeling g away the independent and swing voters in that 77 million.
“Mouthbreathers?” Making ignorant sweeping generalizations like that feed right onto Project 2025’s plan. Aka, “divide and conquer.” We are all better than they are trying to make Americans.
Diana, do you have a better description for a person who voted for Trump after the events of January 6, 2021? The man stole highly classified documents and stored them improperly, was convicted on 34 felonies in New York, and was found civilly liable for sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll. And yet 77 million people voted for him and he won the popular vote. I think it's entirely appropriate to make moral judgments about these people. They have agency, and they've proven they are fine with moral turpitude and incompetence so long as Trump pisses off the right people.
Morons, idiots, trailer trash, dumbfucks, ignoramuses, nazis, racists, bigots - I have lots of terms!
If we want to use language that's more anodyne but more pointed, I'd call them fools, and that's because they do not consider the consequences of their actions.
Fools gives the impression of aloofness that doesn't have malicious intent. MAGA are willfully ignorant racist bigots who are proud that they are uneducated. They are making their decisions out of malice without any understanding or desire to understand how those actions affect others because they do not care. MAGA = Narcissist. I don't care how much they preen about their families - they truly only care about themselves. Their spouse and kids are props in their lives - not people they truly give any shits about.
Absolutely Tim. That is how I refer to these people and always will.
So, by the responses below I sense a moral self righteousness and arrogance. People who feel left out or struggle can fall prey to cult leaders. I have lived in rural, urban, suburban and “ghetto/bario” places. I also have lifelong and very personal experience with racism, sexism and abuse. It’s not about intelligence, education, class or faith. Make no mistake, MAGA is a cult.
The responses make my point. And making moral judgements about an entire group of people says as much about the person who makes that judgement as it does the person or people they are making judgements about. Beware becoming the very thing you profess to hate.
"Beware becoming the very thing you profess to hate."
A few years ago, a former congressional aide named Mike Lofgren wrote a piece about his home state of Ohio and its fortunes since The Great Recession. The photo that accompanied the piece was a photo of two overweight white guys wearing tee shirts that said "I'd Rather Be a Russian Than a Democrat." Put a pin in that for a moment.
The difference between me and your median red hat is I understand that I have agency and I'm accountable for my actions. I am responsible to my employer to provide the best technical work I can muster. I am responsible to my wife to be the best husband I can be and to make sure she feels loved and safe. And ultimately, I'm responsible to myself to not do things that hurt myself or anyone else. With that in mind, I have never voted to erode the personal liberties of people I admittedly detest. I may have contempt for them, but they are citizens just like me, and they should have the same rights, liberties, and opportunities as I do. You have to understand that MAGA is not a political project. It is a moral project, and at the heart of it is making it not just acceptable but laudable to use state power to go after those who aren't MAGA. When someone on X posts approving of ICE beating the shit out of people -- "This is what I voted for" -- do I or do I not have the right to make judgments about their character? Do you really believe I should not judge people like Laura Loomer, or Kurt Schlichter for their actions and their words?
If you saw me run my carriage into an elderly woman in a grocery store that caused her to fall, and instead of helping her up, I laughed and told her to fuck off, you'd correctly think that I was an asshole. So how is that any difference than judging someone who loves what Stephen Miller is doing, or what Pete Hegseth has done to women before becoming SecDef? Or Marco Rubio overseeing the end of USAID which has led to 600K deaths? Or Robert Kennedy Jr. overseeing the destruction of public health in the United States? The insanity is the point. The cruelty is the point. The moral depravity is the point. And MAGA *loves* it.
Maybe you're afraid that judging MAGA for what they're condoning and/or supporting will harden them and make them double down. I think that's ridiculous. I didn't make them vote for Trump. They have agency and they are accountable for their actions. And since they have the right to vote how they choose, then **I have the right to make moral judgments about their character.** If that makes me "arrogant", I've been called worse.
Back to the guys with the "I'd Rather Be a Russian..." shirts. Given what has transpired since February 2022, i.e. Russia launching the biggest land war in Europe since World War II that has led to thousands upon thousands of dead Ukrainian men, women, and children, what do you think the probability of those men rethinking their position is?
One, 1) lived and worked in Ohio for 8 years, sorry but sweeping generalizations again, really, “overweight white guys” with stupid tshirts is your example? 2) apples and oranges comparing someone you physically can call out and confront in a grocery store and a “magahat.” 3) I don’t think it will make them double down, again interesting assumption you make about me. I’ve had no problem calling people out for inappropriate or abusive behavior, whether they be my “superior” at work or a person who runs into an old lady with a shopping cart, or the domestic abuser of a client.
My question to you is why to you think any and everyone who may have called themselves MAGA or voted for Trump will always be caught in the thrall of their original choice? We already have seen voters change their minds significantly in recent elections this year in red states, sometimes by double digits. Whatever you think, even the biggest MAGA, MTG, changed her mind and is calling him out. And I live with folks who believed Trump’s promises and are appalled by what is happening. But many of them are struggling with how to admit they were conned and the last thing some one trying to leave a cult (which MAGA is) is to be told how poor their choices were and what terrible people they are.
If you are tired of dealing with folks you disagree with and judge, and are angry at because they disappointed you, have at it. Virtue signal all you need to. But, to condemn others doesn’t help any of us to address the issues. Frankly, If we had done that in the Civil Rights movement nothing would ever have changed. If anyone has a right to be respond as you suggest are non white folks who have been enslaved, had their land taken away and/or put into internment camps for nor other reason than that they were deemed less than.
Your argument would make perfect sense for about 3 years into the first Trump presidency, but I'm sorry, in 2025...after an 18 minute speech of pure lies and our POTUS once again touting prices being decreased by more than 100%....I think you have it wrong. People still supporting him are NOT going to be influenced (enough) by their personal relationships. They apparently need to feel it viscerally and deeply.
I have been active on social media calling this stuff out since 2017 and I have, more than once, called out anti-Trumpers for being like the MAGA in their responses.
Calling a group of people "mouth breathers" isn't something I personally would do, but man....it doesn't even come close to me to being self-righteous or arrogant in the face of what we are dealing with...in the MAGA movement.
You know how close we are to Trump making some moves and calling Dems "terrorists"? Do you think the MAGAs will come to our defense at that point? I'm not so sure....
I think you're pointing to the wrong enemy and the timing is all wrong. Can we wait to see if our Republic survives before you're doom casting the anti-Trump movement?
I personally know a lot of Trump voters who are intelligent, decent people. The problem is they have been brainwashed by FOX News. While we see all of the disturbing truths about how highly unqualified and deranged Trump is, many FOX viewers NEVER got a truthful picture because FOX NEVER puts anything on their shows that portray that side of him. What I blame them for is not being curious or smart enough to seek out information outside the FOX bubble. They were complacent, but not awful. I can be mad at their ignorance, without branding them with awful names, even though I understand it sometimes helps just to vent in that way.
Not one response that I have read here has "professed" to hate anything, or anyone. Describing things, including people, as they present themselves does not require "hate"- it simply requires observation.
“Mouth breather” for example, is not a rational response, nor is it appropriate to describe people you don’t even know.
Ignorant is what MAGAs are...not those fighting it. Restraint hasn't been working for 8 years...we're all a little weary of "holding back"...it's not ignorance...it's exhaustion.
Dude, how many MAGAs do you know or have any real relationships with? And, those of use who have been fighting for civil, women’s and LGBTQ rights for 60+ years know what exhaustion is. No one has ever characterized me once in my life for not calling out people for hypocrisy (relatives, superiors, organizations, etc.). But, in those decades of experience I have also learned that people’s inexplicable “choices” come from a multitude of influences and personal experiences. You don’t reach anyone or change their minds by being unwilling to see them as an individual human being with their own wounds and losses
I get you, but do you really think that this thing called MAGA is going to be defeated by personal relationships? I have PLENTY of MAGAs that I know and regardless of approach...most of them are hostile and brainwashed by conservative media.
These are people that I attended church and bible studies with. These are people I served for years in the Navy with.
I worked for several years attempting to have reasonable conversations with them but it was completely futile.
Do you think the Nazi's would have been stopped with good personal relationships? This is much bigger and uglier than that. This is GROUP think that has metastasized with social media.
Calling anti-Trumpers ignorant is about the least effective form of communication I've seen...so you're working from behind with me...no matter how much experience with previous movements. This one is different and far more than a personal relationship thing. I strive to maintain the personal relationship thing, but it's pretty clear that most MAGAs do not. I have lost several friends for being direct and, as far as I'm concerned, it was worth it because I wasn't being hostile...just honest about Trump and MAGA. I was never personal (by name) about it. They cannot say the same...I've been called names, accused of becoming a liberal, it's all simply name calling by ignorant and immature people who are being conned and super-charged by social media.
And...by the way...calling them mouth-breathers on a site they will never see...seems pretty darn nice to me after what I've been called....directly.
You are absolutely correct on the brainwashing part. That is what makes them refuse to listen to common sense. It is very sad. I will say that about the brainwashed ones. There are others, though, who revel in Trump's hatred, and you are right, mouth-breathers is a pretty mild adjective to describe them.
that's fine for parts of real human interaction. hey, this is politics, not
real life
think of an attorney lying in court to make a buck, he is a paid mouthpiece, politicians are also in some ways, they have fans, followers, and some who actually fall into a trap, loyalty it is NOT, more like a score settling, not like how one speaks to someone at work. this guy, this slimey guy, if you can tell me trump is not slippery or slimey, I would laugh. he deserves zero respect and he damn well knows it. The votersperhaps they create, many forms and reasons, logic is truly not a big part in many persons choices, they get attracted. two of my siblings have transformed year by year, getting more and more entranced, these are not dumb persons, I know them. Now, I'm sure they will NOT revert to who they once were, it is an infection. If you are blind to that, you have not really had a down to the
level conversation with the bulk of trumplicans/fools
As a retired lawyer you picked the wrong example, and you seem to make generalizations and assumptions about others. You may not realize it, but your arguments seem no more logical or persuasive than those you seem to despise.
Da fuq? I live in Utah. How about North Dakota.
I dint want to lose Utah either .
BUT
too much oil in ND -- MAGAts would try to join Saudi Arabia. That requires them to bring in a theocracy (to fit in ) and what would the innocent folks who just live there do ? They'd have to get past the South Dakotan and Canadian border guards -- Minnesota would have enacted a ban on North Dakota refugees .
Tim Coffey, I don’t think the speech will move the Trumpers at all. They are a cult and live in a world of delusions.
It doesn't have to move them, Helen. I just want to beat them over the head with it.
Unfortunately...I agree. It only served to confirm what all of the anti-Trumpers have known for a long time.
The REAL Trumpers probably sat there fist-bumping the air and yelling, “Tell it, Donald!” back at the tv.
But how could they make any sense of it? To be honest, I didn't watch it. I was washing my hair.
#priorities
A wise choice. I almost sorted my sock drawer.
Yes, Newt was correct but for different reasons than MAGA might assume.
According to Trump, apparently Susie Wiles told him he had to do this speech.
And Mr. Putin told Susie Wiles that she had to tell Puppet Trump that he had to do this speech. Comrade Wiles has the the files on Trump - and he knows it.
Newt Gingrich was never a deep thinker or real leader. He was a petty, hypocrite and a bomb thrower.
When I first started suspecting that my loyalty to the GOP was unfounded (circa 2017)...I was watching TV on a Sunday afternoon and came upon one of those very boring intellectual PBS type of interviews where 2 very old political experts were talking about the rise of Trumpism. Honestly...I don't even remember who they were but they obviously knew what they were talking about.
The interviewee started by saying that all of this started with Newt Gingrich which I was like "Whaaaaaatttt?" because I hadn't actually been paying attention. He made very solid points about Gingrich sort of took the road of "forget about our policy; let's just attack theirs" and I do remember some GOP folks saying that this was a dark road to head down at the time, but I didn't really know what they were talking about.
Fast forward to 2025 and I agree wholeheartedly and can really see how the demonization politics has led to Trump and MAGA and their inability to objectively see what's going on because they are too consumed with hating the Left.
Welcome to the Light. He and McConnell destroyed the party by concentrating on accumulating power, not govern.
I remember those years clearly enough. Newt Gingrich's strategy as an ambitious younger congressman was worked out in collaboration (I seem to recall) with a leading Republican pollster and opinion-shaping expert, a freelance political operative named Frank Luntz who is still around too. They cooked up and put out to Republican House members a list of choice words to brand Democrats with every single time they mentioned Democrats, you know, along the lines of treacherous, disloyal, dishonest, etc., etc., maybe as many as three dozen slurs, to be used constantly. I could look it up on the Internet now, I'm sure, but it would make me sick.
There'd never been anything like this before, and that was Gingrich's new style of politics, and the truth-free, smash-mouth offense worked in 1994 when the GOP took control of the House for the first time in 40 years, as the votes of white southern men swung decisively and permanently (?) to the Republican side, culminating a trend that was well on its way already. Men like Newt Gingrich, northern Georgia's own. And the attack-dog style of the Republicans ever since was the fruit of his labors. Damn him forever.
Damn McConnell too. His pathological quest for revenge (re: Robert Bork) has led to filling the judiciary with right-wing judges - some of whom lack experience and/or competence - who have contributed to trump's free rein.
Yes, and terms like "death tax" to make it seem as if the inheritance taxes were paid by everyone—because everyone dies—when they really affected a small portion of Americans.
I remember thinking that this was the GOP’s revenge on Nixon’s resignation. They never could accept that Nixon was corrupt and deserved impeachment. If McConnell was as powerful then, he would have argued that since the American people voted for Nixon, they should let him run out his term, and then let the voters decide.
Once the tapes were released, the GOP's support for Nixon tanked. The House Judiciary Committee then favored impeachment. Nixon knew he no longer could govern & he resigned.
Yep. I remember. It’s the 90’s crowd that were fixated getting the next elected Democrat, Bill Clinton. He was the upstart who beat Bush, and Republicans wanted to even the score somehow. This was Gingrich’s group. Started with Whitewater, an investment deal that the Clintons lost money on but nevertheless they were part of it because of their association with the firm’s executives. Brought in Kenneth Starr, and he never left. Once Whitewater was settled he found something else to go to Congress and say he should investigate, and they always agreed, up until they found Monica Lewinsky and they thought they struck gold.
talk about amoral - ken starr, what a guy - I imagine someone
else simply used him, dark money, real power.
Which GOP folks criticized this back then? Because they were all on board even if they found him and his ilk distasteful. It became party over country during Reagan and accelerated with the rise of talk radio with Rush and the Rush wannabes as well as the emergence of Fox News.
Don't forget the rise of Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, and the rest of the religious right in the 1980s. They're the original racists and anti-Semites.
In 1997 there was a GOP coup attempt involving Joe Scarborough, Lindsey Graham, Susan Molinari...and others.
It wasn't a coup for noble reasons. They didn't like his compromises with Bill Clinton and the ethics violation investigation was drawing too much attention and making them look bad.
Can we agree that they weren't part of the Newt Gingrich fan club? Certainly their ire wasn't on a single issue. Joe Scarborough certainly touts the 1990's compromises as good politics these days.
God yes. Absolutely!
He was and is loathsome and I embrace anyone, especially GOP or former GOP, who recognize that.
Can you expand or give a reference . My Morning Joe might go form a little to zero if he's an unreliable narrator
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/104460-1997-gop-coup-is-talk-of-2012-primary/
OMG In todays political world I assumed it was a violent coup against the US government not the takedown of an evil hypocrite who happened to be Speaker .
ITs not new -- I like the book ,The Longest Con by Joe Conason but here is a George Conway interview with Joe
https://youtu.be/aFwZazfr3fA?si=q116Hl_qKIzmnV2g
I have a memory from waaaaay back in 1994 listening to NPR as Fred Grandy -- outgoing Iowa House Republican previously known for his role as Gopher on the Love Boat -- say he wanted nothing to do with Newt Gingrich.
Was never a member of the GOP, but always understood and respected many of their points. That was until I saw Newt Gingrich and the hate he was selling. Here we are.
Yes, Newt and Rush Limbaugh. I will never forgive Trump for defiling the Presidential Medal of Freedom by awarding it to that piece of garbage. He did more to fuel hatred of others than any person I know.
we can place that action on a long list, eh?
My father vowed never to vote for anyone who was a member of the GOP after Ollie North and Iran Contra. He said to me - I thought they had changed after Nixon, but I was wrong. He proudly had a sign supporting Obama in his SW VA yard in 2008. He was right - they have gotten worse.
Thanks for sharing that. I'm still coming to terms with Reagan. In my heart of hearts, I sincerely don't think he knew the can of worms he was opening...nor do I think he would ever have been a MAGA...but I have been wrong so many times about this movement and people I thought I knew.
Our government gets in trouble when those in charge think they know better than everyone else. Trump's regime sure has demonstrated how a corrupt leader attracts corrupt followers like nothing else.
I believe Reagan did open three cans of worms and not unintentionally. The first can he opened was by popularizing the mostly racist derogatory caricatures of poor people - young bucks buying T-bone steaks. Second, his little invasions and interferences in Central America and the Caribbean - like Grenada. I see a corollary between Reagan’s actions and Trumps version of the Monroe doctrine. Finally, he and the GOP’s condemnation of those not like them and the embrace of evangelicals with a performative morality. This feeds the AIDS crisis, charter schools, the prosperity gospel, policing women’s behavior, etc., etc.
money, lessons from Pat Buchanan ( he had some ' fans ' )
and money. think of the changes in his personal life in Hollywood,
when a position has more power than just chuggin' along.
Gingrich, one of the original "deep thinker" cosplayers and source of multiple divisions. . Surrounded by other cosplayers and hypocrites of the time. Taken to new heights in this "It will be dramatic" (Melania) administration of the absurd, voted in by people who watched a Mark Burnett show devoid of the mold scented "office" and "needed to be renovated" apartment in Trump Tower that was Donald Trump at the time. His cast ready crew of cosplayers ready at his bidding.
Remember the third wave turd?
And taking a page from the Donald himself, a brazen philanderer. A true Bennettian model of Virtue.
That’s par for the course with these junior high losers. True hypocrisy was his third wife’s appointment as the Vatican ambassador.
That appointment made me puke.
And those are his good qualities! /s
Gingrich is a brain worm. Maybe because I lived in Atlanta in the 80's. Here is one from my files. @newtgingrich capitalized on the innovative 80’s 24-7 CSPAN coverage of the Congress, speaking to an empty chamber, while formulating a list of words to call all those who opposed him. Mitch McConnell told him to cool it. CSPAN started showing empty chairs.
https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/national-recording-preservation-board/documents/GOPACtapes.pdf
The words
https://uh.edu/~englin/rephandout.html
Newt was shrewd , not intelligent . GOP thought he was a deep thinker compared to 60,000 foot level Reagan
GOP has been looking for a deep thinker for 40 years.
Now they have Curtis Yarvin.
And they will have deserved him.
There is always Candace Owen
He was a fast talker and often sounded sensible at first. When you had a chance to actually think about what he said, you realized it was garbage. I wonder if someone paid him to praise that 18-minute run on sentence, I mean lie, last night. Maybe he and Trump can be roommates at the “home.”
also a cheater, a freak, and a bad son, from what I've read. strange human. sorry, this was a statement about the newt. bad placement or something
Mona wrote: "The left’s atrocity detectors are tuned to a different channel. They are activated by Israeli wrongdoing (which is real) but quiescent in the face of anti-Israel massacres such as October 7th"
Mona, who, exactly, was untroubled by the October 7th massacre? To claim 'the left' doesn't care about it is BS. I'd place myself as left-of-center, and I was horrified by that attack.
It is possible to be both horrified by the Oct 7 attack and the destruction of Gaza, Mona.
I’m getting really tired of having these awful views attributed to all of us on the left. The vast majority of us are horrified by these attacks and feel deep sorrow for the victims and their families.
The person Mona won't name who is spreading false information about the Bondi Beach attack is Netanyahu.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/dec/15/australian-pm-rejects-netanyahu-linking-palestine-recognition-bondi-beach-attack
Again, on the right, we have a world leader spreading bile. But on the left, we have momsbasement123 from Reddit. Both. Sides!!
Just like we have Donald Trump v randonm you tube commenter 356
I understand where Mona is coming from here, although I'm not sure the extent of it. I'm in some progressive circles locally. There were definitely people who were basically silent after Oct. 7 and then moved directly to condemnation of Israel for its reaction to the attack or for its history of oppression of Palestinians prior to the attack. These are people I know, so it's not as if they really think that Oct 7 was ok... More that there is something communicated in the silence/condemnation about which sorts of people get their sympathy and action.
I really don't know how much this generalized to a wider population or to political and cultural leaders, though. I gather it wasn't only in my local area. I think we all understand that the way Jews experienced it that way - silence from people when they expected compassionate outreach from, followed by condemnation - feels like very harsh victim blaming and no one would want to experience that after a tragedy. I imagine that's part of why feelings have run high.
Thoughtful reply. Thanks.
Twice we gave them everything they said they wanted..West Bank and Gaza a Capital in East Jerusalem and we got Intifada and bus bombings because what they really wanted was US gone! Remember that any Palestinian leader who signs a peace deal that does not include "The Right of Return" (to the land between the river and the sea) is DOA. The leader of the Palestinians during WWII stayed in Berlin, saying Hitler had the right idea about how to handle the Jews! So the history is an obstacle to Peace.
I'm a lefty, and I remain horrified by Oct. 7. I understood that Israel's response would be fierce. If the United States had suffered such a brutal attack, we also would have rained hellfire on our enemies. But I didn't think Israel would lay waste to Gaza and cause the death and suffering of millions. At some point, the only strategic value to glean from what they were doing was not simply to eliminate Hamas, but as many Palestinians as possible.
I read some history the other day, while in Istanbul while still using the other name, Constantinople persons were at that point stating out loud, you will need to
clear out as many ' rats ' right away. Referring the ' arab' folks being present,
none of this is new. My pa always said it is a twisted snarl and has been for hundreds of years, in the Middle East, I sometimes would argue things can change, he was a frequent reader of Job and all of the International Version and King James, and a deep thinker.
My view, exactly
I think the sentiment for the attack was obscured about 2 weeks later when the discussion of ideas like Israel should be dismantled got a lot of publicity.
As the child of Palestinian immigrants, I need to respond to this statement:
"Perhaps some overwrought Israel defenders do overuse accusations of antisemitism, but it’s also true that antisemites use any perceived crime or error by Israel as permission for open season on Jews worldwide."
It is absolutely true.
Antisemitism is abhorrent. It is evil bigotry at a level that is practically unrivaled in Western civilization.
Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is also abhorrent. But Israel's actions are not and should not ever be equated with "the Jews."
I can criticise Israel every day, and I do. But I do so knowing that Israel is not "the Jews" and Jews are not Israel.
Jews are human beings who share all of the beauty and contradictions and heroics and foibles of all human beings. If I praise or criticize a Jew, it's because I feel that that individual is worthy of praise or criticism. That human being is not an avatar for world Jewry.
Examples: Netanyahu is despicable human garbage. Rob Reiner was a brilliant, caring, loving, creative man. Neither of those men's attributes has fundamentally anything to do with their Jewishness (apart from the general influence that everyone's cultural identity has on us). Netanyahu isn't despicable because he's Jewish. Reiner wasn't brilliant because he was Jewish.
What we all need to do is constantly push back on "overwrought Israel defenders [who] do overuse accusations of antisemitism" and "antisemites [who] use any perceived crime or error by Israel as permission for open season on Jews worldwide."
Remember, the US is majority Christian, but we don't hold Christians worldwide responsible for the batshit crazy, evil things the US government is currently doing, do we?
Antisemitism is evil. End of rant.
Not a rant. An excellent read.
Thank you for being part of this community Richard. I could not have put my thoughts down better than you did here, beautifully said.
Well said!
Will had the best insight on the post-Trump speech livestream last night that he reiterated in today's MS, that is Trump relying on all the *world* leaders telling him that America has the **hottest** economy going now; yes, all the Emirate sheiks, body-chopping Princes, and up sucking (for purposes of getting lower tariffs) EU and Asian leaders are the measure by which we are the GREATEST in world history! Not the small business owners, construction company owners, coal miners, EV cancelled factory workers or even the $2 billion hit Ford Motor Company executives - their opinions are all. wait for it - a hoax.
I'm sure they are all busy creating some ostentatious award to give him the next time they see him.
Last night was just the most recent billboard example of why the world derides us. Our president is plainly incompetent, cognitively shallow, and operationally incapable of fulfilling the demands of the office. The world fears us for a darker, more destabilizing reason. We are feared because a substantial segment of the American populace has demonstrated not merely tolerance for this incapacity, but an active preference for it.
An unfit executive is a spectacle. A society that shows its unfitness by persistently elevating him, is a countdown to disaster.
Trump’s insistence that America is “the hottest country in the world” because Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman told him so is an inadvertent disclosure. He is not governing a constitutional republic, he is currying favor with autocrats, mistaking sycophantic flattery for legitimacy and trying to launder it back to voters as evidence of national success. Strongmen praise him precisely because he is manipulable, incapable of distinguishing personal affirmation from state interest. When economic credibility is outsourced to dictators, the abdication is complete.
The rot, however, extends beyond the individual. The world mocks the man because he is weak. It fears the country because too many Americans have shown they are willing to be governed by weakness, provided it is performative, vindictive, and reassuring. That is not strength misapplied. It is incapacity normalized, and it is inherently dangerous, and it is our reality.
So many MAGAs are "all in" at this point...simply because of their pride and being unwilling to admit they may have been wrong. It's not a conscious thing...it's a subconscious thing. Their ego blocks what they know to be true.
Like I've said before...1/2 the books written about the Trump era will be found in the Psychology section of the bookstore.
*IF* we survive this maladministration and books are allowed to be written.
Very good add on.
More important is that no one who can say what you wrote, Patrick, will do it. Mainstream Media, Banks, Wall Street, sane CEOs (if they do exist) are hiding. Congress has been AWOL. Many are leaving Congress, like the rats on a sinking ship, after having scuttled said ship in the first place. But the American people are actually getting stronger. Instead of worrying about absent leaders, there is a surge of people protesting, demonstrating, writing petitions, calling representatives and donating money to further their belief in our Democracy and our Constitution. The next No Kings March will be greater than the last!
Mona's
Reflection on Bondi Beach,
Thank you for pointing out that the man who wrestle one if the gun man to the ground was also a Muslim, a man from Syria.
That goes to show us, we are all human, some of us good, others bad, some brave, some lucky.
We all need to hold several thoughts at the same time.
Peace.
Ahmed Al Ahmed! Way to go brother! We could have used you in Uvalde, Texas. Anytime you want to visit US and I can understand why you may not want to, we'll have a whole bunch of real Americans there to thank you.
I believe Ahmed Al Ahmed , is a righteous gentile and should be honored as such in Israel
Life is short. I watched a cricket match between England and Australia rather than waste my time in watching or listening to Trump. Props to Will, Tim, and Andrew for keeping us updated in the immediate aftermath.
As experts pick through the inflation release today, they are noting that for certain things like housing, BLS simply assumed the value was ZERO for the month of October. Incredible how the data can be so favorable if your assumption due to lack of collection is that the data would read zero. You can’t expect any more from the genius who said, “if we stop testing, the cases will soon drop to zero.”
I didn't watch either, but I'm guessing I would have watched both in bewilderment because I don't know anything about cricket...but I do know a lot about Trump...well...that's why I didn't watch him.
You know there are whole subfields of statistics that deal with missing data , and even computer packages that estimate . And those who work at BLS know this but were afraid or forbidden to do the right thing
He is an embarrassment to our country, a comfort to our enemies, and an affront to humanity.
A hat trick president.
Last night, Trump said gas is now $1.99 a gallon. Because Trump doesn't drive (and must not look out the window of the Beast), he failed to recognize that gas stations, which are conveniently located at major intersections, post gas prices on big, lighted signs.
Signs are the new fake news.
Last night's Trump...thing (call that a speech???) is another item contributing to my disinterest when people talk or write about what Democrats should do, should have done, fail to do, or generally act stupid, wrong, or out of touch.
If what I saw last night resonates with anyone, or is defended by anyone, or isn't disqualifying for anyone then I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's overly important that people act or behave anyway at all.
That was just another notch in the seemingly infinite depths to which his supporters will allow themselves to be taken by this guy. There is no bottom.
Damn...the posts are FIRE this morning. GREAT point.
Remember the missing 18 minutes from the Watergate tapes?
Trump's address last night is like the INVERSE of that. 18 minutes we all WISH were erased from history.
Ooooo....maybe we could make an X-Files episode connecting the 2...
More like the sequel to the “Home” episode.
"Not the height of presidential oratory": lol.
I noticed that some media treated it as "news". But how is lying and masturbation in front of cameras "news", when it comes to Trump?
It's not.
So there is no reason for me to waste my time watching this.
It's often said that if you want to live a virtuous life, surround yourself by "spiritual friends". Trump and much of the GOP are the opposite: they pollute our minds constantly by spewing the most non-virtuous thoughts and negative emotions.
So no thanks.
We have a civic society to rebuild. I'll focus on that instead.
The legacy/mainstream media has sanewashed this guy and allowed him to play by diffrerent rules and different standards than anyone else since the campaign began a decade ago. Outlets like the NYT (no, they aren't alone) have much to answer for.
Exactly. We had another example in the NYT "report" of this address again, when it wrote that... Biden had claimed the economy was doing great when people didn't "feel it" and now Trump claims the same thing when people don't feel it either.
Crucial fact omitted: it was OBJECTIVELY PROVEN that the economy was doing great by the time Biden left, and it is objectively proven that right now, there is inflation again and the unemployment rate is increasing again.
It's so horrible to see how even the NYT capitulates, again and again, rather than offering solid, decent journalism on issues that matter so much.
His ship has sailed, powered by gasbag oratory.
Mona: the left has not been silent about Oct 7 or real antisemitism in America. Rather we are attuned to the gross power imbalances of Palestinian civilians wrt Israel, as well as the right wing opportunism to describe any criticism of Israel as "anti-Semitic" and corresponding 1st amendment crackdowns on college campuses. You are at the Bulwark now, which I think should avoid flimsy both-sides arguments.
I'm sorry, but you can't discount 75 years of Arabs' bloodthirsty opposition to Israel, beginning with their rejection of the original two state plan in 1948. Fast forward to 1967, 1973. Anwar Sadat was killed because he dared to make peace with Israel. The Bedouin guards of King Hussein of Jordan foiled numerous plots against him. Fast forward to the PLO's hijacking of the Achille Lauro (PLO = Push Leon Overboard (the guy in the wheelchair)) and then to multiple Intifadas by the murderous Yasser Arafat who rejected more peace overtures. In modern times, there are the multiple Arab terror groups who still actively plot against Israel: Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Islamic Jihad et al. And their very short sighted supporters on American college campuses.
Netanyahu has kept his Gaza war going because he's as corrupt as Trump, and is facing charges. Bibi caters to the far right orthodox religious parties in Israel to retain his power; the ones who shoot Arab civilians and steal their land on the West Bank. In short, Israel isn't perfect. But peace can be there. Also don't forget the couple million Arabs who are Israeli citizens. How many Jews are citizens of Gulf countries?
Steve what you leave out is that the Arab nations never cared about the Palestinians. Some of those nations used the arrival of Israel as an excuse to drive out large Jewish populations. None of them treated the many Palestinian refugees with any respect or did much to help them reestablish their lives. On top of that Israel’s treatment of Jews coming from nations like Iraq, Egypt or Morocco was really not ideal. I say all sides are culpable for acts that defy human dignity.
Agree with the first part. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to leave the Ottoman Empire relatively intact after WW I. Maybe all the bloodshed could have been avoided. An interesting alternate history question for a fiction writer like Dr. Harry Turtledove to write about.
I’m not sure how much better the treatment of the Palestinians was under the Ottomans than under Israel. The accounts of the earlier Zionist settlers indicate a region of poverty oppression and neglect.
There were positive changes within the Ottoman government beginning in 1908, at least in Constantinople (now Istanbul). But they still allowed themselves to get dragged into the war.
It would take a lot of digging to find out how those changes applied to the provinces, especially far away locations like Palestine and Mesopotamia. I own "The Decline and Fall of the Ottoman Empire," Alan Palmer, Barnes & Noble Books, 1994. Haven't read it for a while and no time today. It does cover the arrival of Zionists in the area & negotiations with the then sultan.
it’s nice that you care about the history I feel as if the current debates don’t allow for all the reason so many of the peoples involved don’t have any trust in each other or hope that it can ever be different.
How many Jews WANT to be citizens of Gulf countries, or are even allowed to be?