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Victoria Wright's avatar

Yeah, I just read it. The part that stood out was that it was a total surprise. Which means that the average citizen wasn't actually involved in the attack itself.

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Scott Gaynor's avatar

No! Really? You mean not every Japanese citizen was directly involved in the attack on Pearl Harbor too? Good grief.

So unless they were directly involved in the attacks, they are completely innocent? FFS...

I must have missed in the article where it said that the people in Gaza they interviewed were horrified by the wanton killing of civilians and where they said it was wrong.

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Victoria Wright's avatar

Uhhh, so you're pro-genocide?

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Scott Gaynor's avatar

Who's calling for a genocide? Not me. Not Israel...

Hint: It's the group of people who are calling for driving the Israeli's into the sea... "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" - Hamas Convenant

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William's avatar

Charlie has called this Israel’s 911. We retaliated causing millions of death, 20 years of war(s), 2 trillion in cost and loss to the US of 7,074 troops killed in action and another 53,303 wounded. A further 1.8 million post-9/11 veterans have reported service-connected disabilities to the Department of Veterans Affairs. As Mark Antony (in Julius Caesar) said, “Raging for revenge, with Ate by his side come hot from hell, shall in these confines with a Monarch's voice cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war."

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Sko Hayes's avatar

Thank you for the reminder. This will not end well for anyone.

"Young men die in old men's wars"

Requiem for a Soldier

https://youtu.be/9xMh_WOt5XU?si=o4GlGbeBxTfMDDuG

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William's avatar

But when ye come, and all the flowers are dying,

If I am dead, as dead I well may be,

You'll come and find the place where I am lying,

And kneel and say an Ave there for me.

-Danny Boy

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Sko Hayes's avatar

My dad's favorite song of all time, it never failed to bring him to tears. I love it too!

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howard's avatar

if it is your opinion that the arab response to israel from the start has been genocidal, i agree.

if it is your opinion that israel therefore has totally clean hands and has never conducted itself in ways in which its good faith could even be called into question, then not only do you and i disagree but so do a substantial number of israelis.

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Scott Gaynor's avatar

Where did I ever say anything like the second paragraph?

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howard's avatar

The bulwark likes us to keep it clean, so let me put it this way.

I grew up in a very pro-zionist milieu (my parents very nearly emigrated to Israel when they married in 1950), and I am deeply familiar with the rhetorical practices of people who do think Israel's hands are completely clean. Your comments are certainly within that radius.

So I asked, which is why I used the word "if."

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Scott Gaynor's avatar

So you created a narrative out of thin air about what you wanted me to say so you could claim some moral high ground?

Good to know.

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howard's avatar

Apparently you are not interested in dialogue nor in adhering to the bulwark's comment style, so forgive me if I say that you must have a reading comprehension problem and a projection problem so I see no point in continuing.

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Scott Gaynor's avatar

What conversation is there to be had? I was accused (by you too?) of being “pro-genocide” when I said no such thing.

I agree - nothing to “discuss”

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Susan Linehan's avatar

sorry, paywall

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Scott Gaynor's avatar

you can get in by entering an email address.

But, the first few paragraphs:

"“None of us believed the videos we saw on Saturday morning. Hamas fighters inside Israeli territory and fighting with all their might,” Maha, a 34-year-old woman from Gaza City said in a call with Haaretz. “Who would have thought this would happen?” She called October 7 “a historic day for the Palestinian people.”

Maha is not alone in defining the Hamas invasion of Israeli territory as a historic day. Most Palestinians from Gaza who spoke to Haaretz described the first hours as the beginning of the “liberation of Palestine.”

“We were ecstatic. It’s like a dream that is hard to wake up from,” Maha adds. “But as the picture became clearer, and I saw that there were Israeli prisoners, I realized that we were in a nightmare, in hell.”

“I didn’t think for a moment that the attack was planned. But when we learned about the number of fatalities on the Israeli side, we understood that it was a planned operation, and then Hamas issued an official announcement about the ‘Al-Aqsa Flood’ war,” said Maher, a 48-year-old resident of Gaza City. “For the Palestinians in Gaza the events and the abduction of Israelis were a big surprise,” he said."

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Susan Linehan's avatar

I don’t need any more email. If they just wanted to know who I was, ok. But signing in needs agreement to get emails

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