Tim Miller and Sam Stein go live to discuss breaking news: After 125 days detained in a notorious El Salvador prison, Venezuelan asylum seeker Andry José Hernández Romero and other detainees were released as a part of a large-scale prisoner swap between the US and Venezuela.
Todd made a comment about 30:00 in, about how there's no humane way our government can interact with immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, without some sort of path to citizenship. I'd argue what we really need is legal status - green cards would work, if we also recognized civil rights, free speech, etc. with that status, which is also obviously under assault. But what really struck me was how incentivized certain people are to having people stuck on the margins.
I'm talking about labor costs.
Because if there's one thing American history shows us, it's that American business is addicted to, it's cheap labor. Slavery and sharecropping, cheap immigrant labor, now outsourcing and importing from countries where they pay less. In a sane world we'd give enough green cards to match our labor needs, prioritizing people already here and with no criminal record, something like that. The problem is you either have to pay them what you'd pay Americans or be okay with massive wage inequality that's got a heavy racial component. Maybe not intentionally but definitely as a foreseeable unavoidable consequence. And does anyone really think most Americans would support the president who shot their grocery bill through the roof when the guy picking their strawberries starts earning minimum wage.
I don't know the answer. The current "situation" (I'll be generous) sure isn't it. But there's this massive injustice at the heart of what's driving our dysfunctional set-up that we've all sort of just built our lives around. At this point it's almost lode-bearing. Actually, nix that: it *is* lode-bearing. And that's -- again being generous with my language -- "upsetting."
Great question Sam! I share your skepticism. Don’t forget that they built Alligator Alcatraz. Now they won’t have to send as many people to CECOT, but they are still sending people to other countries so they’re still doing bad stuff
The one good thing -- and this is one heck of a reach -- is I think the real purpose of CECOT was to get people used to the government doing that to people. Once a toehold was gained the thought process becomes harder to resist. Us resisting it at the beginning makes it harder for that way of thinking to grab hold. Though we have to keep fighting against it. So, yes, they're doing Sudan and Florida; but I think people are more primed to think those other places aren't okay, either. And that matters.
Well, some of us. A depressing number of us have much less space to say we don't know what's happening and are still not bothered by it. I'm related to a fair few of them, and I have to make sense of the people I know and love being okay with this mess. That's the kind of reality that keeps me up at night.
It is a sad state of affairs when you can say that these political prisoners are probably safer in Venezuela than the US. At least he is alive and can be with his family. I hope Andry remains safe.
My continued prayers were answered.Andrei finally released from the concentration prison in El Salvador...and others. Hopeful he will be safe until returned to us in America. And as you said...this swap of human souls was sickening. I cannot imagine what torture these men were subjected to.
Thank you. Tim and Sam for this informative and heartfelt and realistic discussion. And for all the work for Andry and all the souls being swept up, used, abused, and terrorized.
Thank you for this update, a glimmer of good news in the ongoing abuse of human rights by ICE. Thanks Tim for championing this particular person, who has become so symbolic of the innocents caught up in Miller’s cruel campaign.
Thank you for bringing this news. My heart aches for all of the nearly 60,000 people who have been arrested and so abused to date. This includes many little children. Bless you and all who work to help fix this horrible tragedy.
Todd made a comment about 30:00 in, about how there's no humane way our government can interact with immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, without some sort of path to citizenship. I'd argue what we really need is legal status - green cards would work, if we also recognized civil rights, free speech, etc. with that status, which is also obviously under assault. But what really struck me was how incentivized certain people are to having people stuck on the margins.
I'm talking about labor costs.
Because if there's one thing American history shows us, it's that American business is addicted to, it's cheap labor. Slavery and sharecropping, cheap immigrant labor, now outsourcing and importing from countries where they pay less. In a sane world we'd give enough green cards to match our labor needs, prioritizing people already here and with no criminal record, something like that. The problem is you either have to pay them what you'd pay Americans or be okay with massive wage inequality that's got a heavy racial component. Maybe not intentionally but definitely as a foreseeable unavoidable consequence. And does anyone really think most Americans would support the president who shot their grocery bill through the roof when the guy picking their strawberries starts earning minimum wage.
I don't know the answer. The current "situation" (I'll be generous) sure isn't it. But there's this massive injustice at the heart of what's driving our dysfunctional set-up that we've all sort of just built our lives around. At this point it's almost lode-bearing. Actually, nix that: it *is* lode-bearing. And that's -- again being generous with my language -- "upsetting."
Great question Sam! I share your skepticism. Don’t forget that they built Alligator Alcatraz. Now they won’t have to send as many people to CECOT, but they are still sending people to other countries so they’re still doing bad stuff
The one good thing -- and this is one heck of a reach -- is I think the real purpose of CECOT was to get people used to the government doing that to people. Once a toehold was gained the thought process becomes harder to resist. Us resisting it at the beginning makes it harder for that way of thinking to grab hold. Though we have to keep fighting against it. So, yes, they're doing Sudan and Florida; but I think people are more primed to think those other places aren't okay, either. And that matters.
Well, some of us. A depressing number of us have much less space to say we don't know what's happening and are still not bothered by it. I'm related to a fair few of them, and I have to make sense of the people I know and love being okay with this mess. That's the kind of reality that keeps me up at night.
It is a sad state of affairs when you can say that these political prisoners are probably safer in Venezuela than the US. At least he is alive and can be with his family. I hope Andry remains safe.
Man, my tears are flowing right now. This is great news, but then again, it should never have happened. Loads of prayers for him and the others.
Right there with you. It's so messed up.
Tim and Sam, is there any update on how the releasees are being treated by the Venezuelan government?
on a different subject, here is some outstanding reporting on Trump's Everglades interment camp:
https://www.wusf.org/courts-law/2025-07-18/jacksonville-company-lands-78-million-contract-services-alligator-alcatraz?utm_source=chatgpt.com
My continued prayers were answered.Andrei finally released from the concentration prison in El Salvador...and others. Hopeful he will be safe until returned to us in America. And as you said...this swap of human souls was sickening. I cannot imagine what torture these men were subjected to.
Does the lying ever stop from the felon Trump regime?
No it is their oxygen, Tr and his followers live off lies.
If they stop lying, 'maga' collapses.
I love LIndsey too. Thank you. I'm signed up.
Thank you. Tim and Sam for this informative and heartfelt and realistic discussion. And for all the work for Andry and all the souls being swept up, used, abused, and terrorized.
First proof of life!
Effin' depraved.
Thank you for this update, a glimmer of good news in the ongoing abuse of human rights by ICE. Thanks Tim for championing this particular person, who has become so symbolic of the innocents caught up in Miller’s cruel campaign.
Yessssss!!! Thank God he is out of CECOT
Great news. Hope there is followup. Is he being detained in Venezuela or released? Has he been seen or heard from since returning to Venezuela?
Thank you for bringing this news. My heart aches for all of the nearly 60,000 people who have been arrested and so abused to date. This includes many little children. Bless you and all who work to help fix this horrible tragedy.
They look thin. Now we need to get the prisoners in the Everglades out of that terrible place.
Great news!!!
immdef.org = Immigration Defense Law Center