Israeli citizenship is automatic to Jews. It is a homeland for us.
Jewish academic, literary, scientific and artistic accomplishment means that left alone Israel will always be governed by Jews. Everybody is sick to death of Bibi. HeтАЩs on his way out. He never gets a majority. Because Israel is a democracy, the voters will get him out. He tried to rig the system through the courts and the population stopped him. His downfall is in abeyance because of the war but itтАЩs not eternally vacated.
Contrary to GlaudeтАЩs throwaway statement, the Likud doesnтАЩt represent Israel any more than MAGA represents the US. ItтАЩs just a significant and dangerous minority.
The real threats to Israel, unlike here, are from the outside. Israel is surrounded by enemies on every side. But, even some of those enemies want to do business with Israel. Many of them would be fine with Israeli Jews being dead, but since theyтАЩre not dead, theyтАЩll work with them. They also share the hatred of Iran.
All of that being true means that the Jews will run their homeland for a long, long time. We were ethnically cleansed; the genocide perpetrated by the Nazis means that there are fewer Jews now than there were in 1940. ThatтАЩs what those words mean.
Israel is a vital US ally. ItтАЩs the single source of valuable intel from the Mideast. Absent mass murder itтАЩs not going anywhere.
There are Israeli Arabs. They have a political party and the right to ask for citizenship. They arenтАЩt conscripted, however, although they may volunteer. The Bedouins always volunteer. In my opinion that means the Bedouins should be able to walk into citizenship and assimilate completely if they like, or not.
Can you not understand why Jews donтАЩt want someone else to run their country? No one is forced to live in Israel. The Arabs who live there chose to live there from the mandate forward.
The US is an enormous, rapidly evolving population with hundreds of religions, cultures, and races. Israel is a tiny community with a total of about five religions and exists as a haven for people nobody else wanted. The idea of someone else running it is anathema. Nobody wanted the place. It was a waterless wasteland. When the Jews came home they turned it into a verdant, productive country.
Bibi has been in power for how long? The Israeli public is responsible for electing a corrupt and incompetent leader who discriminates against Palestinians in the occupied territories. The result is a loss of support for Israel by a large portion of the American public.
BidenтАЩs support for Israel may contribute to the American public electing a corrupt and incompetent authoritarian leader like Bibi. The whole situation is so sad.
Was the American public responsible for electing Trump? Bibi doesnтАЩt win majorities either.
IтАЩm reasonably confident that a nation like Israel isnтАЩt worried about winning a popularity contest. ItтАЩs worried about whether it continues to exist.
Most of America doesnтАЩt oppose the war and only for a tiny minority will it affect their vote. In Della VolpeтАЩs Harvard Youth Poll (a gold standard) voters 18-29 identified it as 13th in importance to their vote. Thirteenth.
Israel has a repulsive right wing, steeped in religious nonsense. Sound familiar? Either it saves itself or it doesnтАЩt, but your suggestion that it stop defending its right to exist because it elected someone who is scrambling to stay out of prison is a tiny bit antisemitic. And since it is the only democracy and the only source of Mideast intel in allyship with the US, we have a vital role in helping it survive.
It feels a bit rich to me that whether Israel doesnтАЩt trust Palestinians is more bewildering or surprising than why a single Arab nation wonтАЩt take them in. Why do you suppose Egypt built a wall to keep them out? Or Jordan? Food for thought.
When you suggested Israel should be more concerned about the Palestinians than the PalestiniansтАЩ own (elected) government is.
You donтАЩt see Arab nations lining up to protest on behalf of the Palestinians. DonтАЩt you wonder why that is? Nations like Jordan flew defense for Israel when Iran attacked.
Support for Hamas was 40-50% amongst the Palestinian people before the war. The Arab nations (except Iran, which isnтАЩt Arab but gets lumped in all of the time) are going to scapegoat Gaza for this.
IsraelтАЩs duty is to defend Israel and that means neutralizing Hamas. The UN has now determined that Hamas vastly overinflated the number of dead, and that 14K of the actual dead were Hamas fighters.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that does not care at all about their citizens. I expect everybody to care more about the Palestinians than Hamas does. Half the Palestinian population is under 18, those under 30 were under 12 when Hamas was elected. The majority of the current population did not elect Hamas.
Israel absolutely has a right to defend its right to exist. But if the Israeli government is going to prop up Hamas at the expense of the PA then it has responsibility not to kill so many children, starve the population and withhold medicine and thereby cause so much suffering. Netanyahu arranged for Qatar to fund Hamas with the permission of the Trump administration. The Israeli government ignored intelligence about the terrorist attack on its own citizens while its military protected settlers terrorizing Palestinians in the West Bank. Israel does not have a long term plan for Gaza that promotes peace in the region. Maybe you are right and it will turn out to be surgical when all the evidence is in but it does not look that way so far.
You seem to suggest that all Palestinians are evil so no Arab nations want to take them in. I think that Palestinians are just like Americans and Israelis, mostly good, although Palestinians have harder lives.
Not think about it, seriously? It would be great if either Egypt or Jordan would take a more active role in facilitating aid to Gaza but why should they take in refugees w/o any agreement with a reliable Israeli government about rights to return to that limited space? In light of events of past 10-15 years in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that have left non-Israeli citizens essentially stateless, how are we as Americans supposed to be expected to trust the Israeli populace?
You missed my sarcasm. No Arab nation will assist them or have them. And there are excellent reasons for that which are unrelated to a тАЬright of return.тАЭ
How did you move so easily from the Israeli government to the Israeli тАЬpopulace?тАЭ If thatтАЩs the rule, I suppose itтАЩs fair to equate the Palestinian populace with its government.
This is a war for the existence of a nation which is home to people determined to make sure the existence continues. Hamas shouldnтАЩt have attacked it, a fact which is sadly unimportant to too many people.
So, the killing of 1,000 Israeli's is a horrible crime (which is true) that proves protestors are all evil anti-Zionists but the killing of thousands of civilians in Gaza is a shrug.
I'm not surprised you think the Gazans should just leave and let West Bank become part of Greater Israel. Which is y'know, the reasons Gazans don't leave - because they know that's what Israeli's want. An excuse not to let them back to the West Bank.
Israel is a Jewish democracy. Judaism is embedded in democracy because it is ethical monotheism and our rabbis are not only teachers but lawyers.
And Judaism is far more than a religion.
I know. I never said it was anything otherwise. That's why I compared it to white nationalism.
You cannot maintain ethno-centric control and democracy long term without creating second class citizens and oppressing minority groups.
You clearly believe otherwise, so what's your proposal to make sure Israel is always governed by a Jewish majority until the end of time?
Israeli citizenship is automatic to Jews. It is a homeland for us.
Jewish academic, literary, scientific and artistic accomplishment means that left alone Israel will always be governed by Jews. Everybody is sick to death of Bibi. HeтАЩs on his way out. He never gets a majority. Because Israel is a democracy, the voters will get him out. He tried to rig the system through the courts and the population stopped him. His downfall is in abeyance because of the war but itтАЩs not eternally vacated.
Contrary to GlaudeтАЩs throwaway statement, the Likud doesnтАЩt represent Israel any more than MAGA represents the US. ItтАЩs just a significant and dangerous minority.
The real threats to Israel, unlike here, are from the outside. Israel is surrounded by enemies on every side. But, even some of those enemies want to do business with Israel. Many of them would be fine with Israeli Jews being dead, but since theyтАЩre not dead, theyтАЩll work with them. They also share the hatred of Iran.
All of that being true means that the Jews will run their homeland for a long, long time. We were ethnically cleansed; the genocide perpetrated by the Nazis means that there are fewer Jews now than there were in 1940. ThatтАЩs what those words mean.
Israel is a vital US ally. ItтАЩs the single source of valuable intel from the Mideast. Absent mass murder itтАЩs not going anywhere.
There are Israeli Arabs. They have a political party and the right to ask for citizenship. They arenтАЩt conscripted, however, although they may volunteer. The Bedouins always volunteer. In my opinion that means the Bedouins should be able to walk into citizenship and assimilate completely if they like, or not.
Can you not understand why Jews donтАЩt want someone else to run their country? No one is forced to live in Israel. The Arabs who live there chose to live there from the mandate forward.
The US is an enormous, rapidly evolving population with hundreds of religions, cultures, and races. Israel is a tiny community with a total of about five religions and exists as a haven for people nobody else wanted. The idea of someone else running it is anathema. Nobody wanted the place. It was a waterless wasteland. When the Jews came home they turned it into a verdant, productive country.
Sorry to run on, truly. ThatтАЩs my plan, though.
Bibi has been in power for how long? The Israeli public is responsible for electing a corrupt and incompetent leader who discriminates against Palestinians in the occupied territories. The result is a loss of support for Israel by a large portion of the American public.
BidenтАЩs support for Israel may contribute to the American public electing a corrupt and incompetent authoritarian leader like Bibi. The whole situation is so sad.
Was the American public responsible for electing Trump? Bibi doesnтАЩt win majorities either.
IтАЩm reasonably confident that a nation like Israel isnтАЩt worried about winning a popularity contest. ItтАЩs worried about whether it continues to exist.
Most of America doesnтАЩt oppose the war and only for a tiny minority will it affect their vote. In Della VolpeтАЩs Harvard Youth Poll (a gold standard) voters 18-29 identified it as 13th in importance to their vote. Thirteenth.
Israel has a repulsive right wing, steeped in religious nonsense. Sound familiar? Either it saves itself or it doesnтАЩt, but your suggestion that it stop defending its right to exist because it elected someone who is scrambling to stay out of prison is a tiny bit antisemitic. And since it is the only democracy and the only source of Mideast intel in allyship with the US, we have a vital role in helping it survive.
It feels a bit rich to me that whether Israel doesnтАЩt trust Palestinians is more bewildering or surprising than why a single Arab nation wonтАЩt take them in. Why do you suppose Egypt built a wall to keep them out? Or Jordan? Food for thought.
Where did I suggest that Israel stop defending itтАЩs right to exist?
When you suggested Israel should be more concerned about the Palestinians than the PalestiniansтАЩ own (elected) government is.
You donтАЩt see Arab nations lining up to protest on behalf of the Palestinians. DonтАЩt you wonder why that is? Nations like Jordan flew defense for Israel when Iran attacked.
Support for Hamas was 40-50% amongst the Palestinian people before the war. The Arab nations (except Iran, which isnтАЩt Arab but gets lumped in all of the time) are going to scapegoat Gaza for this.
IsraelтАЩs duty is to defend Israel and that means neutralizing Hamas. The UN has now determined that Hamas vastly overinflated the number of dead, and that 14K of the actual dead were Hamas fighters.
That sounds pretty surgical to me.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that does not care at all about their citizens. I expect everybody to care more about the Palestinians than Hamas does. Half the Palestinian population is under 18, those under 30 were under 12 when Hamas was elected. The majority of the current population did not elect Hamas.
Israel absolutely has a right to defend its right to exist. But if the Israeli government is going to prop up Hamas at the expense of the PA then it has responsibility not to kill so many children, starve the population and withhold medicine and thereby cause so much suffering. Netanyahu arranged for Qatar to fund Hamas with the permission of the Trump administration. The Israeli government ignored intelligence about the terrorist attack on its own citizens while its military protected settlers terrorizing Palestinians in the West Bank. Israel does not have a long term plan for Gaza that promotes peace in the region. Maybe you are right and it will turn out to be surgical when all the evidence is in but it does not look that way so far.
You seem to suggest that all Palestinians are evil so no Arab nations want to take them in. I think that Palestinians are just like Americans and Israelis, mostly good, although Palestinians have harder lives.
All polling shows the Israel populace basically agreeing with the right-wing view on what the military and government should treat Palestinians.
I imagine so. They were attacked.
As I said, BibiтАЩs comeuppance is on hold, not cancelled.
How many Palestinian civilians would you say is too many, even if it means Hamas stays a threat? 25k? 50k? 100k? 500k?
I donтАЩt think about it. Civilians die in wars that arise from attacks. I donтАЩt run IsraelтАЩs military, I simply support it.
It would be great if ANY Arab nation would welcome in the Gazans, though.
Not think about it, seriously? It would be great if either Egypt or Jordan would take a more active role in facilitating aid to Gaza but why should they take in refugees w/o any agreement with a reliable Israeli government about rights to return to that limited space? In light of events of past 10-15 years in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that have left non-Israeli citizens essentially stateless, how are we as Americans supposed to be expected to trust the Israeli populace?
You missed my sarcasm. No Arab nation will assist them or have them. And there are excellent reasons for that which are unrelated to a тАЬright of return.тАЭ
How did you move so easily from the Israeli government to the Israeli тАЬpopulace?тАЭ If thatтАЩs the rule, I suppose itтАЩs fair to equate the Palestinian populace with its government.
This is a war for the existence of a nation which is home to people determined to make sure the existence continues. Hamas shouldnтАЩt have attacked it, a fact which is sadly unimportant to too many people.
So, the killing of 1,000 Israeli's is a horrible crime (which is true) that proves protestors are all evil anti-Zionists but the killing of thousands of civilians in Gaza is a shrug.
I'm not surprised you think the Gazans should just leave and let West Bank become part of Greater Israel. Which is y'know, the reasons Gazans don't leave - because they know that's what Israeli's want. An excuse not to let them back to the West Bank.