"But the fundamental problem is, who controls the documents produced by the executive branch of our government? Is it the permanent bureaucracy, or is it the people’s elected president? I think it’s the president."
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Both choices Vance mentioned are *wrong*. Any document produced by or for the Executive branch belongs not to the "burea…
"But the fundamental problem is, who controls the documents produced by the executive branch of our government? Is it the permanent bureaucracy, or is it the people’s elected president? I think it’s the president."
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Both choices Vance mentioned are *wrong*. Any document produced by or for the Executive branch belongs not to the "bureaucracy" nor POTUS; They belong to the American people as a whole and, by law, are supposed to be turned over to NARA - with a few exceptions.
I hate to talk nasty and use labels. Maybe not hate, but I try not to do it. But JD Vance is either a complete moron who lets random stuff fall from his face, or he is yet another dishonest, disgusting, cheating prevaricator on the right.
OF COURSE the permanent bureaucracy controls the documents! We elect a President to make important decisions, guide policy, and be our representative to the rest of the world. We don't elect him to track who has what documents. The bureaucracy is what provides continuity between Presidents and allows government to continue to function Nov thru Jan/Feb.
Why has no one on either side reporting and commenting today said anything about Trump's apparent inability to understand why documents might be classified and how the person holding them has a responsibilty to not show them to anyone without the clearance? And why has noone asked who else cook have been shown these? Were there any foreign guests staying at MarALago in the 18 months between leaving the white house and the FBI search warrant? Maybe I'm just having a GRRRrrrr day!
His Hillbilly DNA legacy is blooming. I think he is both: 'But JD Vance is either a complete moron who lets random stuff fall from his face, or he is yet another dishonest, disgusting, cheating prevaricator on the right.'
If everybody in the Federal bureaucracy changed with each new administration, not only would you avoid a Deep State, each Inauguration Day would resemble a Chinese fire drill. But hey, who needs institutional knowledge?
I always want to ask these folks who sneer at expertise, knowledge and experience, if your pipes were leaking and water was flooding your house, would you call a plumber or an electrician?
We don’t know what we don’t know. That’s terrifying, given the cast of characters.
I heard John Brennan on a podcast (Deadline Whitehouse?) say it will take years - maybe decades - to assess the damage done by the leak of this trove of secret documents. And clues will be informants who turn up dead.
When I took a course on logic in the late '80s I dug through articles in Rolling Stone magazine to demonstrate fallacies. It would be so much easier now to pick from the simple examples provided by Republican politicians.
For example, Lindsey Graham’s fallacy of equivocation in fulminating that Trump was not some spy, as though being charged under the espionage act means you’re accused of committing espionage as commonly understood. This from a guy who served in the USAF JAG Corps.
Gym Jordan did false equivalence in going on about a Supreme Court decision about the President’s classification authority when all of the charges pertain to acts and omissions over a year after Trump ceased being president (the exact date and time of that ceasing is clearly stated in the indictment).
Then there are all the false equivalencies and ad hominem animadversions against Bill Clinton for his sock drawer, Hillary for her e-mails, “The Biden Crime Family,” boxes in Chinatown and God knows what else.
"But the fundamental problem is, who controls the documents produced by the executive branch of our government? Is it the permanent bureaucracy, or is it the people’s elected president? I think it’s the president."
-----
Both choices Vance mentioned are *wrong*. Any document produced by or for the Executive branch belongs not to the "bureaucracy" nor POTUS; They belong to the American people as a whole and, by law, are supposed to be turned over to NARA - with a few exceptions.
fnord
Of course they’re wrong! Everyone knows the correct choice is #3! ;)
https://youtu.be/D4tvZJGNIhM
I hate to talk nasty and use labels. Maybe not hate, but I try not to do it. But JD Vance is either a complete moron who lets random stuff fall from his face, or he is yet another dishonest, disgusting, cheating prevaricator on the right.
OF COURSE the permanent bureaucracy controls the documents! We elect a President to make important decisions, guide policy, and be our representative to the rest of the world. We don't elect him to track who has what documents. The bureaucracy is what provides continuity between Presidents and allows government to continue to function Nov thru Jan/Feb.
Why has no one on either side reporting and commenting today said anything about Trump's apparent inability to understand why documents might be classified and how the person holding them has a responsibilty to not show them to anyone without the clearance? And why has noone asked who else cook have been shown these? Were there any foreign guests staying at MarALago in the 18 months between leaving the white house and the FBI search warrant? Maybe I'm just having a GRRRrrrr day!
His Hillbilly DNA legacy is blooming. I think he is both: 'But JD Vance is either a complete moron who lets random stuff fall from his face, or he is yet another dishonest, disgusting, cheating prevaricator on the right.'
JD is an opportunist. Unfortunately we make it easy for grifters to succeed.
Vance is 100% a sellout.
I'm not sure. A 100% sellout will stay bought. He might well be more dangerous than being a complete sellout.
So, 90%?
If everybody in the Federal bureaucracy changed with each new administration, not only would you avoid a Deep State, each Inauguration Day would resemble a Chinese fire drill. But hey, who needs institutional knowledge?
they never use it, haven't since they all came into power. The Taliban Club, as Adam Kinzinger called them, it just pure grievance and bullying
I always want to ask these folks who sneer at expertise, knowledge and experience, if your pipes were leaking and water was flooding your house, would you call a plumber or an electrician?
We don’t know what we don’t know. That’s terrifying, given the cast of characters.
I heard John Brennan on a podcast (Deadline Whitehouse?) say it will take years - maybe decades - to assess the damage done by the leak of this trove of secret documents. And clues will be informants who turn up dead.
Also, the people's elected president is currently Joe Biden, not Donald Trump.
Yeah; details, details.
I guess Vance hasn't read the Presidential Records Act.
No, and you can’t make him. Or the actual indictment.
When I took a course on logic in the late '80s I dug through articles in Rolling Stone magazine to demonstrate fallacies. It would be so much easier now to pick from the simple examples provided by Republican politicians.
For example, Lindsey Graham’s fallacy of equivocation in fulminating that Trump was not some spy, as though being charged under the espionage act means you’re accused of committing espionage as commonly understood. This from a guy who served in the USAF JAG Corps.
Gym Jordan did false equivalence in going on about a Supreme Court decision about the President’s classification authority when all of the charges pertain to acts and omissions over a year after Trump ceased being president (the exact date and time of that ceasing is clearly stated in the indictment).
Then there are all the false equivalencies and ad hominem animadversions against Bill Clinton for his sock drawer, Hillary for her e-mails, “The Biden Crime Family,” boxes in Chinatown and God knows what else.
They both know better. They are using emotionally loaded (and inaccurate) terminology and Gym’s is adding reductio ad absurdum.
This is only true if you believe in We the People. The GOP believes in We the Party.
Some of them don’t even believe in “We the Party” as evidenced by the recent shenanigans in the House.
We the Freedom Caucus, holding the House hostage.