My answer to this is very simple: if Democrats can’t make a play to the center without losing the left, then we’re dead. There are not enough left wing voters to win national elections by themselves, and if they’re going to hunt heretics rather than accept friends in the center, then we can’t win. There are not enough deep blue states to…
My answer to this is very simple: if Democrats can’t make a play to the center without losing the left, then we’re dead. There are not enough left wing voters to win national elections by themselves, and if they’re going to hunt heretics rather than accept friends in the center, then we can’t win. There are not enough deep blue states to hold the Senate without some Testers and Manchins and Doug Joneses, and while the House is somewhat more gettable, we need the Senate. There is not a “no true Scotsman” theory that gets an AOC-adjacent Dem nominee to win a statewide election in Montana, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, Florida, Missouri, Georgia, the Dakotas, Alabama, or West Virginia. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden were able to either win these states or had senators who could win them. They did not win them from the left, they won them from the center.
Yep, that's the reality like it or not. And the sooner Dems start planning their moves on that basis, the better. Because 2026 is approaching fast. Does this risk alienating the Bernie/AOC wing such that they pull a 2024 style temper tantrum and stay home watching reruns on voting day? Yes. But where is the larger coalition going to exist? Numbers mean something.
Yes, we’re going to either be a coalition or we’re not. If we truly want to end Trumpism, we need to not only accept the left and the center, we need to start unsorting the Democratic-Republican dialectic altogether and make nice with sane Republicans who aren’t down with the Donald. We need a tent big enough to fit AOC, Bernie, Adam Kinzinger, and Liz Cheney underneath it and not have any pies thrown. Now, ten to twenty years ago I wouldn’t necessarily have figured I’d be bedfellows with Liz Cheney either… but I’d MUCH rather have the business logic of governance be a relatively friendly conversation with her about the proper level of taxation or oil extraction than one with MAGA about how many people we should liquidate to a concentration camp in El Salvador without due process. I don’t actually expect I’ll agree with Cheney on much of substance, but we at least agree on the rules of how we should have that conversation and what happens when one of us gets outvoted. We can do business with this person. That is a VAST improvement over all things Donald Trump.
But eric, literally that is what Harris did and she lost. That isn’t enough to win elections as seen by Harris.
Look I don’t have an answer but I have a feeling the most important feature of both republicans and democrats is don’t be in charge. Incumbency was what killed Harris. Same for Trump in 2020 and Hillary in 2016. The issue, from my perspective, is people want change, good or bad, but once you are elected they hate whatever change you try to effectuate. It has been happening now in every election since 2006 (with one exception, Obama).
Trump is basically doing everything he said he would do and yet after 2 months, his popularity has collapsed. It lasted like 6 months for Biden and 9 months for Trump 1.
We want change but the moment someone tries to do something, anything, we hate it. The problem is us, the voters.
You know what is worse? This is true of almost every voter in every developed economy in the world
Harris attempted to do what I described: she tried to get Cheney and Kinzinger into the tent without any pies being thrown.
I would submit that there are quite a few lefties who are simultaneously insisting that this is why she lost while trying to be as subtle as possible in scrubbing whipped cream off their hands.
In short… we have not successfully made that coalition. The lefties aren’t accepting them, and the center-righties know it. This very site takes incoming from liberal subscribers all the time for the fact that they’re pretty openly former Republicans.
But that is never ever going to happen. That isn’t even reasonable to ask for. What prominent person didn’t come out for Harris from the left…or center in 2024? I can’t think of anyone who was against her…that is prominent. I’m not talking about the BS on twitter or some other chat room. Obama got criticized from the left (drone strikes) and the center (Obamacare and Syria).
This isn’t the issue. The issue is, incumbency, from my perspective.
If Dems elect AOC I’ll vote for her and support her. I would also vote for Liz Cheney against any republican. I probably agree with neither candidate’s views on many things.
What policy did Harris push that you feel lost her the election that you agreed with? Too many people think that what they want is popular and a winning message (sarah does this ALL the time). Centrism isn’t popular because it requires compromise and more importantly it’s BORING.
My answer to this is very simple: if Democrats can’t make a play to the center without losing the left, then we’re dead. There are not enough left wing voters to win national elections by themselves, and if they’re going to hunt heretics rather than accept friends in the center, then we can’t win. There are not enough deep blue states to hold the Senate without some Testers and Manchins and Doug Joneses, and while the House is somewhat more gettable, we need the Senate. There is not a “no true Scotsman” theory that gets an AOC-adjacent Dem nominee to win a statewide election in Montana, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, Florida, Missouri, Georgia, the Dakotas, Alabama, or West Virginia. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden were able to either win these states or had senators who could win them. They did not win them from the left, they won them from the center.
Yep, that's the reality like it or not. And the sooner Dems start planning their moves on that basis, the better. Because 2026 is approaching fast. Does this risk alienating the Bernie/AOC wing such that they pull a 2024 style temper tantrum and stay home watching reruns on voting day? Yes. But where is the larger coalition going to exist? Numbers mean something.
True. And there are not enough center left voters to win an election either.
Yes, we’re going to either be a coalition or we’re not. If we truly want to end Trumpism, we need to not only accept the left and the center, we need to start unsorting the Democratic-Republican dialectic altogether and make nice with sane Republicans who aren’t down with the Donald. We need a tent big enough to fit AOC, Bernie, Adam Kinzinger, and Liz Cheney underneath it and not have any pies thrown. Now, ten to twenty years ago I wouldn’t necessarily have figured I’d be bedfellows with Liz Cheney either… but I’d MUCH rather have the business logic of governance be a relatively friendly conversation with her about the proper level of taxation or oil extraction than one with MAGA about how many people we should liquidate to a concentration camp in El Salvador without due process. I don’t actually expect I’ll agree with Cheney on much of substance, but we at least agree on the rules of how we should have that conversation and what happens when one of us gets outvoted. We can do business with this person. That is a VAST improvement over all things Donald Trump.
But eric, literally that is what Harris did and she lost. That isn’t enough to win elections as seen by Harris.
Look I don’t have an answer but I have a feeling the most important feature of both republicans and democrats is don’t be in charge. Incumbency was what killed Harris. Same for Trump in 2020 and Hillary in 2016. The issue, from my perspective, is people want change, good or bad, but once you are elected they hate whatever change you try to effectuate. It has been happening now in every election since 2006 (with one exception, Obama).
Trump is basically doing everything he said he would do and yet after 2 months, his popularity has collapsed. It lasted like 6 months for Biden and 9 months for Trump 1.
We want change but the moment someone tries to do something, anything, we hate it. The problem is us, the voters.
You know what is worse? This is true of almost every voter in every developed economy in the world
Harris attempted to do what I described: she tried to get Cheney and Kinzinger into the tent without any pies being thrown.
I would submit that there are quite a few lefties who are simultaneously insisting that this is why she lost while trying to be as subtle as possible in scrubbing whipped cream off their hands.
In short… we have not successfully made that coalition. The lefties aren’t accepting them, and the center-righties know it. This very site takes incoming from liberal subscribers all the time for the fact that they’re pretty openly former Republicans.
But that is never ever going to happen. That isn’t even reasonable to ask for. What prominent person didn’t come out for Harris from the left…or center in 2024? I can’t think of anyone who was against her…that is prominent. I’m not talking about the BS on twitter or some other chat room. Obama got criticized from the left (drone strikes) and the center (Obamacare and Syria).
This isn’t the issue. The issue is, incumbency, from my perspective.
If Dems elect AOC I’ll vote for her and support her. I would also vote for Liz Cheney against any republican. I probably agree with neither candidate’s views on many things.
What policy did Harris push that you feel lost her the election that you agreed with? Too many people think that what they want is popular and a winning message (sarah does this ALL the time). Centrism isn’t popular because it requires compromise and more importantly it’s BORING.