Charlie and Mona have their doubts. Also will cameras in federal court case help or hurt Trump? How should anti-Trump Republicans pitch the stakes in 2024?
Mona: "If I could just have one wish it would be that Nikki Haley would be the Republican party nominee and then I could breathe easy about so many things, about the future of this country."
Charlie: "Words you proabably didn't think you'd say 6 months ago. ... I completely agree with you"
So true!
Love your idea of George W Bush's, etc getting together now to warn of the existential threat of Trump 2.0! Wouldn't that help Nikki do well in those first couple of primaries, then perhaps win S Carolina?
It still appears to me that the goal of No Labels is to pull Biden to the center - i.e., to detach him from the Democratic left and make him appeal more to centrist voters. So, I don't think they are sincere about running a third party campaign for the presidency - the threat to do so is just a means to an end. I hope it works.
I think the premise underlying the critique of No Labels is that Joe Biden is the best or only person who can compete with Donald Trump. I believe the the American electorate (and in particular swing voters, who are the real key to the election's outcome) are making it pretty clear they will not be giving Joe Biden a majority of their votes next year. In other words, he's probably already lost. Some of these voters may go for Trump, some for Biden, but many will vote for neither or will plant their votes somewhere else - regardless of whether No Labels fields a candidate or not. The only ones who can stop the futility of a Joe Bide rerun (and the growing tide of third-fourth-fifth-etc. candidacies) are (a) Joe Biden, by withdrawing post haste, or (b) the Democratic Party, by nominating someone else (also post haste). Absent that, I think it's pretty clear to me that trying to corral the extra-party candidates back into the two-party barn just isn't going to work. It's the wrong strategy for playing what is, at the moment, a pretty grim hand.
Who is the No Labels candidate? For those who don't think Biden is the right Democrat, then who is? It's time to stop being abstract. The election is a year away and that really isn't a long time. Financing and mounting a national campaign takes time and explicit planning.
Here's what we know: Trump shot up in the polls once the indictments started. This assumes he attracted some support from those who aren't in his cult, people who don't buy the idea he's a great persecuted martyr, but could be starting to think he's too obsessed over. There are varying degrees of anti-establishment voters, many who think the system is corrupt or unfair. As Mona points out, people aren't widely plugged-in to what's happening, how grave the threat is, or to the details of what Trump has said and done since the 2020 election. Many don't trust the legal system and see news surrounding Trump as background noise. They may dismiss him as a loudmouth with no teeth, but know the system has teeth and can be merciless. I agree with Mona about the cameras. I do not think seeing him sitting in a federal court drives as many swing voters away as it attracts, judging by how the indictments have coincided with his rise in the polls. I'd rather see Biden surrogates dispassionately detail his extremism -- not judge it, not rail against it, describe and detail it. And it would be nice if there were less opportunities for Trump to play the martyr to a corrupt system. Just because we see through his act doesn't mean it doesn't work to some degree on others, some of them swing voters in swing states.
But if, by some miracle, Nikki Haley beats Trump in the Primaries, that would be wonderful. I would welcome a presidential race between Joe Biden and Nikki Haley: two normal people with experience and also foreign policy credentials. Now, that's a REAL choice!
I have a pony, to borrow from Will…what if No Labels runs a split ticket, pulls mostly disaffected Republicans and then, when it is clear they can’t win and are hurting Biden, they pull out and endorse Biden? I know, I know but I just listened to Hacks on Tap with Mark McKinnon and he didn’t think a Manchin or Lieberman would want the stain of a Trump victory to be their legacy.
If memory serves, No Labels began with Mark McKinnon and Mark Penn. My trust isn't inspired. Mona's right, it has to come from the actual grass roots up through the party structures. This feels more like Dick Armey's Tea Party.
To add to the conversation of what we’re watching, try Pieces of Her on Netflix with Tony Collette. Great plot and characters. Just when you think you’ve figured it out something unexpected comes in. Each episode is more intense with added twists. Try and keep up!
to listen is all important-----that means to- BOTH PARTIES---- and when you have listened,-- make up YOUR MIND and not ANY POLITICAL PARTIES, they cannot make up your mind-----ONLY YOU CAN !----REMEMBER----ONLY YOU CAN,-- YES IT MAY BE HARD----BUT IT MUST BE DONE-- AND BY YOU! and YOU ALONE----- PS I'm not a member of any party, I'm able to make up my- OWN MIND, I will listen to both sides, and I will---- MAKE MY OWN DECISION-----NOT ANY PARTIES--- YOU HAVE A MIND--USE IT !!!!! PLEASE JUST TRY IT--IT WILL NOT HURT -BUT IT WILL BE HARD TO DO !!!!
I understand, Mona. I love them less, too, even the ones I'm related to.
Thanks for the tip, Mona. Started watching Bad Sisters after listening to this pod. Delicious!
Thanks for the tip, Mona. Started watching Bad Sisters after listening to this pod. Delicious!
Mona: "If I could just have one wish it would be that Nikki Haley would be the Republican party nominee and then I could breathe easy about so many things, about the future of this country."
Charlie: "Words you proabably didn't think you'd say 6 months ago. ... I completely agree with you"
So true!
Love your idea of George W Bush's, etc getting together now to warn of the existential threat of Trump 2.0! Wouldn't that help Nikki do well in those first couple of primaries, then perhaps win S Carolina?
It still appears to me that the goal of No Labels is to pull Biden to the center - i.e., to detach him from the Democratic left and make him appeal more to centrist voters. So, I don't think they are sincere about running a third party campaign for the presidency - the threat to do so is just a means to an end. I hope it works.
The trial should not be televised. This is the federal court system, not a tent revival.
There will be a transcript. At some point in the future it will be released. The historical record will be preserved.
Ruthless we have had. But not psychotic.
Low information voters won't know what to do with a third party, they can barely function with two. There I said it !
I think the premise underlying the critique of No Labels is that Joe Biden is the best or only person who can compete with Donald Trump. I believe the the American electorate (and in particular swing voters, who are the real key to the election's outcome) are making it pretty clear they will not be giving Joe Biden a majority of their votes next year. In other words, he's probably already lost. Some of these voters may go for Trump, some for Biden, but many will vote for neither or will plant their votes somewhere else - regardless of whether No Labels fields a candidate or not. The only ones who can stop the futility of a Joe Bide rerun (and the growing tide of third-fourth-fifth-etc. candidacies) are (a) Joe Biden, by withdrawing post haste, or (b) the Democratic Party, by nominating someone else (also post haste). Absent that, I think it's pretty clear to me that trying to corral the extra-party candidates back into the two-party barn just isn't going to work. It's the wrong strategy for playing what is, at the moment, a pretty grim hand.
Who is the No Labels candidate? For those who don't think Biden is the right Democrat, then who is? It's time to stop being abstract. The election is a year away and that really isn't a long time. Financing and mounting a national campaign takes time and explicit planning.
Here's what we know: Trump shot up in the polls once the indictments started. This assumes he attracted some support from those who aren't in his cult, people who don't buy the idea he's a great persecuted martyr, but could be starting to think he's too obsessed over. There are varying degrees of anti-establishment voters, many who think the system is corrupt or unfair. As Mona points out, people aren't widely plugged-in to what's happening, how grave the threat is, or to the details of what Trump has said and done since the 2020 election. Many don't trust the legal system and see news surrounding Trump as background noise. They may dismiss him as a loudmouth with no teeth, but know the system has teeth and can be merciless. I agree with Mona about the cameras. I do not think seeing him sitting in a federal court drives as many swing voters away as it attracts, judging by how the indictments have coincided with his rise in the polls. I'd rather see Biden surrogates dispassionately detail his extremism -- not judge it, not rail against it, describe and detail it. And it would be nice if there were less opportunities for Trump to play the martyr to a corrupt system. Just because we see through his act doesn't mean it doesn't work to some degree on others, some of them swing voters in swing states.
No wars under Trump? Weren't we still fighting in Afghanistan?
Actual troops in Afghanistan back then. No troops in Ukraine or Israel now.
Fantasy politics here:
But if, by some miracle, Nikki Haley beats Trump in the Primaries, that would be wonderful. I would welcome a presidential race between Joe Biden and Nikki Haley: two normal people with experience and also foreign policy credentials. Now, that's a REAL choice!
The pro-Russia traitors would not see that as a real choice!
I have a pony, to borrow from Will…what if No Labels runs a split ticket, pulls mostly disaffected Republicans and then, when it is clear they can’t win and are hurting Biden, they pull out and endorse Biden? I know, I know but I just listened to Hacks on Tap with Mark McKinnon and he didn’t think a Manchin or Lieberman would want the stain of a Trump victory to be their legacy.
If memory serves, No Labels began with Mark McKinnon and Mark Penn. My trust isn't inspired. Mona's right, it has to come from the actual grass roots up through the party structures. This feels more like Dick Armey's Tea Party.
To add to the conversation of what we’re watching, try Pieces of Her on Netflix with Tony Collette. Great plot and characters. Just when you think you’ve figured it out something unexpected comes in. Each episode is more intense with added twists. Try and keep up!
to listen is all important-----that means to- BOTH PARTIES---- and when you have listened,-- make up YOUR MIND and not ANY POLITICAL PARTIES, they cannot make up your mind-----ONLY YOU CAN !----REMEMBER----ONLY YOU CAN,-- YES IT MAY BE HARD----BUT IT MUST BE DONE-- AND BY YOU! and YOU ALONE----- PS I'm not a member of any party, I'm able to make up my- OWN MIND, I will listen to both sides, and I will---- MAKE MY OWN DECISION-----NOT ANY PARTIES--- YOU HAVE A MIND--USE IT !!!!! PLEASE JUST TRY IT--IT WILL NOT HURT -BUT IT WILL BE HARD TO DO !!!!
Glad we have measured, sane and calm commenters here.