I don't take much solace in polls that show how many people are willing to acknowledge his administration is incompetent. Some may even trace the cause to him personally as an intellectually shallow, lazy, delusional idiot. But he's their idiot, their tyrant, and their retribution just like he said. The problem is a very stubborn significant number of voters WANT what he serves up even if some may want it done more deftly. The problem is he is a symptom, not a cause - I've said this since he arrived on our stage (pun intended) in 2016. The problem is this undercurrent will rise up someone else as maga 2.0 who is likely to be far, far worse. More intelligent, more disciplined, more ideological, more dogmatic, more consistent, more driven to finish a task, more respectable on the surface. It could be any of the Curtis Yarvin contingent, or Heritage Foundation Project 2025 acolytes, or the deepest of the deepest sleeper cells from Russia or China raised here to be their agent. Any or all of those are likely. Or it could be something more pedestrian like DJT Jr. or Barron, Saddam Hussein-like legacy.
i'm 78. we are doing fine. i am definitely not a trumpian but this too shall pass. it should be a lesson for all of us. trump does know how to sway a sizeable portion of the electorate and i expect to see him run one of his children in the next presidential elections. let's don't be fooled again!
I'm 65. I don't think we've ever been on the precipice of authoritarian destruction of the Republic though. I can't think of any previous example, in our lifetimes at least, that's been so tenous. Economically we'd need to reach back to the 1920's. Politically we'd need to reach back to the Civil war I think.
A sane and well administered country, acting carefully to solve problems without making too many mistakes. How to get there when people cannot see themselves when they look in the mirror? It is difficult to argue and reason about these things without being straightforwardly honest. The reality is that the spending footprint of the US government is not exorbitant compared to most advanced countries. We do have a social safety net, but one that is looser and thinner than that of many countries. We have a large deficit, not because expenses are out of control, but because our taxes are too low, and that is starting for upper middle class up to the rich millionaires and billionaires. Taxing the uber rich (a moral and social necessity) would provide significant funds but it still would not be enough.
Well, JVL ... I recall painfully the young voters who were visibly angry at the Democrats, at the time of the Feb. 2024 primary in Michigan, about Joe Biden. I don't think they were particularly mollified by the switcheroo to Harris -- even I thought that was pretty dodgy, however "legal" it was. Now there's this: https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025 ""From significant economic concerns to dramatic feelings of social isolation, and from growing mental health challenges to mounting distrust in the government and both parties, young Americans have apprehensions about what would have seemed unimaginable just a few short years ago," said IOP Director Setti Warren. "These findings are a stark reality check and leaders across the country would be wise to pay close attention." You know what Michigan Democrats are doing to prepare for various gubernatorial and senatorial races? Blowing money attacking a Democrat-turned-Independent, Mike Duggan, former mayor of Detroit. Nothing is a "given" at this point, except disdain for BOTH parties.
When people hear a simple "cutting taxes", with no distinctions, they think it means something good for them. Instead, force them to make distinctions. Say instead "Make the rich pay their fair share, for a change, so the little guy pays less"
"Make the rich pay their fair share, for a change, so the little guy pays less"
Kamala Harris said this many times during her campaign (including on the 60 Minutes interview). I think she usually said "middle class" instead of "little guys".
Anyway, my point is it didn't convince enough of the "little guys" to not vote for Trump.
All they hear is "cut taxes" and they think they're getting a (bigger) refund next year. In other words, they're analytically challenged.
Pres T wins on "Goals" by using glittering generalities, "big and beautiful". Pres T loses on "Execution", as he forgets to make sure the children are out of the driveway before he backs the big and beautiful car out of the big and beautiful garage.
Will Saletan is on a roll--Yes, "We need to reach beyond the audience that shares our values. We need to reach people who don’t agree with us on much". Yes, "This is a key to unlocking the Trump coalition: When the question is execution instead of goals, the middle of the electorate turns against him".
What really gets me is that Trump's 2 main reasons for tariffs are inconsistent, namely, 1. they're leverage to get better trade deals, 2. they'll replace income taxes as govt revenues. #1 is necessarily SHORT TERM, while #2 is necessarily LONG TERM. IOW, both can't hold, but I've yet to hear anyone challenge admin officials about this inconsistency.
Too much math and philosophy in my cv, but I can't help noting that one can argue anything based on false premises.
Trump's notions about tariffs grow out of his special combination of stupidity and selfishness. He has called the income tax a bad innovation because it meant that U.S. residents started to pay the costs of their own government. Apparently, he believes that tariffs were a way of making people in other countries pay those costs - and that it was right and proper that they should.
Or maybe he does grasp that the issue is: Which Americans will be more burdened? He seems to be fully comfortable with shifting higher costs onto average Americans so the wealthy few can keep more for themselves.
Given the traditional way supply and demand are taught and understood, sales taxes (of which tariffs are indeed a variant) raise prices, so reduce supply and demand, and that does mean the supplier/exporter does bear PART of the tariff costs in the form of reduced production, so reduced profits.
What Trump has either forgotten from Wharton or (more likely) never understood is that buyers/importers also pay in the form of the higher prices.
Trump does seem to want tariffs to REPLACE income taxes, as any wealthy person would: out with the progressive, in with the regressive. That means he wants 'em for the LONG TERM. Too bad they'd be very politically unpopular. Thus the need to play up the 11-D chess negotiating angle. Thus, not stupid, just selfish and dishonest.
In Trump's case NEVER attribute to stupidity that which could be explained by avarice.
Don't waste time with MAGA, just don't - the cult is too invested in their product. Finding the people who voted Trump and trying to convince them? A worthy effort if you can seperate the wheat from the chaff.
The apologist/excusers/Trumpsplainers will be working overtime in the coming months, and frankly there is no way to break into the bubble with enough impact to change the cultist's minds. That's only about a third of the voting population though, which leaves a lot that perhaps can be convinced.
Waste is a problem. However, it is pervasive and not limited to governments (corrupt or not corrupt. Non-democratic or democratic.)
People waste indiscriminately all of the time. Put a lens to an individual person and ask that person: What did you waste today?
Was it your time taking your kid to the doctor when she needed it- for reassurance. Was it accepting take-out with plastic utensils you will never use? But keep in a drawer as a just in case. Was it quiet contemplation about hard personal decisions that take you out of the rhythm of work?
I’d like the people who are being polled to answer that question. What waste do they incur, produce? And how much can they minimize their own personal waste.
I knew a guy- long ago- who dumpster-dived for food. He was a fit young guy, living in San Diego, thinking he was saving the world and being counter-cultural at the same time.
He ended up in the ER- with severe food poisoning as a result. The resources it took to save his life- incalculable.
Whatever he was trying to accomplish in ‘saving waste’ exponentially created more waste.
So re polling: ask more pointed questions. What would you do to cut down waste in the government? Would you cut salaries of the top 5% in the government making decisions that have no impact on their personal lives at all? Would you support less garbage collection and do it yourself? Would you support less education and healthy meals to stimulate a growing brain so we can all benefit from these minds in the future? Would you support less tax collection of people (corporations are considered ‘people’) and more sales tax on fuel for the car or the bus that gets you to work?
“Scientists say the universe is made out of hydrogen because it is the most abundant element. They’re wrong. Stupidly is far more abundant than hydrogen. And it has a longer shelf life.”
What a strange conversation this is. Bashing Trump voters, many, many of whom are not MAGA, and wishing Lincoln had let the South secede (and slavery endure) is bizarre, to put it nicely. Will put together a good argument on the utter incompetence of the Trump administration and the political advantages it creates for Democrats. Smart and consistent messaging from the Democrats -- a big if -- on GOP incompetence and corruption is a way to break the Trump spell and break the Republicans' grip on the government.
I feel uneasy in the value of the destruction of human and constitutional rights, the gutting of our research and humanitarian endeavors in the US and overseas, taking food and healthcare away from the poor, cutting down our national forests and mining its parks... as some talking point for an opposing political party. Offering a contrasting vision of what we can be as a nation is far better. Project 2025 is an anathema, a wet dream for corporations and billionaires.
Project 2025 is a farce in addition to being an assault on American values. The level of corruption and waste in the government -- pre-Trump 2.0 -- was no greater than it is in the the private and nonprofit sectors.
Most of these people who think that the government is full of waste fraud and abuse have little to no idea of what the government actually does or how--and, TBH, a lot of what they see as waste, fraud, and abuse is simply money spent on something that they do not like or do not understand, or on people that they do not like--rather than them. Any money spent of them is OBVIOUSLY NOT waste, fraud, or abuse.
They have been told by various politicians for so long that the government pisses money away (you know, those same people who, by and large voted to spend that money). People who think that the government shouldn't be doing certain things (like health insurance/health care). People who do not like regulations of any kind that might help actual citizens instead of corporations. Obviously all of those regulations and healthcare-associated spending is waste, fraud, and abuse.
Is there waste, fraud and abuse? Certainly. It isn't measured in the hundreds of billions of dollars, let alone the trillion dollar figure being floated around... and the reality is that it isn't going to go away--human nature being what it is.
And you certainly aren't going to fix it by taking a chainsaw to the government.
I can’t. I would rather fight to the death against the asshats who don’t respect the constitution and rule of law than ‘welcome them to the fold.’ They are beyond redemption at this point.
The far right is clammering for a ‘2nd Amendment solution.’ Let just freakin do it. See which way the military goes and get it over with. Give them enough time to convert the military and we’re screwed.
I don't take much solace in polls that show how many people are willing to acknowledge his administration is incompetent. Some may even trace the cause to him personally as an intellectually shallow, lazy, delusional idiot. But he's their idiot, their tyrant, and their retribution just like he said. The problem is a very stubborn significant number of voters WANT what he serves up even if some may want it done more deftly. The problem is he is a symptom, not a cause - I've said this since he arrived on our stage (pun intended) in 2016. The problem is this undercurrent will rise up someone else as maga 2.0 who is likely to be far, far worse. More intelligent, more disciplined, more ideological, more dogmatic, more consistent, more driven to finish a task, more respectable on the surface. It could be any of the Curtis Yarvin contingent, or Heritage Foundation Project 2025 acolytes, or the deepest of the deepest sleeper cells from Russia or China raised here to be their agent. Any or all of those are likely. Or it could be something more pedestrian like DJT Jr. or Barron, Saddam Hussein-like legacy.
Think optimistically - you are already calling them out.
i'm 78. we are doing fine. i am definitely not a trumpian but this too shall pass. it should be a lesson for all of us. trump does know how to sway a sizeable portion of the electorate and i expect to see him run one of his children in the next presidential elections. let's don't be fooled again!
I'm 65. I don't think we've ever been on the precipice of authoritarian destruction of the Republic though. I can't think of any previous example, in our lifetimes at least, that's been so tenous. Economically we'd need to reach back to the 1920's. Politically we'd need to reach back to the Civil war I think.
Citizens of Germany didnt think they were on the precipice of authoritarian destruction until he was too late.
A sane and well administered country, acting carefully to solve problems without making too many mistakes. How to get there when people cannot see themselves when they look in the mirror? It is difficult to argue and reason about these things without being straightforwardly honest. The reality is that the spending footprint of the US government is not exorbitant compared to most advanced countries. We do have a social safety net, but one that is looser and thinner than that of many countries. We have a large deficit, not because expenses are out of control, but because our taxes are too low, and that is starting for upper middle class up to the rich millionaires and billionaires. Taxing the uber rich (a moral and social necessity) would provide significant funds but it still would not be enough.
Well, JVL ... I recall painfully the young voters who were visibly angry at the Democrats, at the time of the Feb. 2024 primary in Michigan, about Joe Biden. I don't think they were particularly mollified by the switcheroo to Harris -- even I thought that was pretty dodgy, however "legal" it was. Now there's this: https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025 ""From significant economic concerns to dramatic feelings of social isolation, and from growing mental health challenges to mounting distrust in the government and both parties, young Americans have apprehensions about what would have seemed unimaginable just a few short years ago," said IOP Director Setti Warren. "These findings are a stark reality check and leaders across the country would be wise to pay close attention." You know what Michigan Democrats are doing to prepare for various gubernatorial and senatorial races? Blowing money attacking a Democrat-turned-Independent, Mike Duggan, former mayor of Detroit. Nothing is a "given" at this point, except disdain for BOTH parties.
When people hear a simple "cutting taxes", with no distinctions, they think it means something good for them. Instead, force them to make distinctions. Say instead "Make the rich pay their fair share, for a change, so the little guy pays less"
"Make the rich pay their fair share, for a change, so the little guy pays less"
Kamala Harris said this many times during her campaign (including on the 60 Minutes interview). I think she usually said "middle class" instead of "little guys".
Anyway, my point is it didn't convince enough of the "little guys" to not vote for Trump.
All they hear is "cut taxes" and they think they're getting a (bigger) refund next year. In other words, they're analytically challenged.
Pres T wins on "Goals" by using glittering generalities, "big and beautiful". Pres T loses on "Execution", as he forgets to make sure the children are out of the driveway before he backs the big and beautiful car out of the big and beautiful garage.
Will Saletan is on a roll--Yes, "We need to reach beyond the audience that shares our values. We need to reach people who don’t agree with us on much". Yes, "This is a key to unlocking the Trump coalition: When the question is execution instead of goals, the middle of the electorate turns against him".
What really gets me is that Trump's 2 main reasons for tariffs are inconsistent, namely, 1. they're leverage to get better trade deals, 2. they'll replace income taxes as govt revenues. #1 is necessarily SHORT TERM, while #2 is necessarily LONG TERM. IOW, both can't hold, but I've yet to hear anyone challenge admin officials about this inconsistency.
Too much math and philosophy in my cv, but I can't help noting that one can argue anything based on false premises.
Trump's notions about tariffs grow out of his special combination of stupidity and selfishness. He has called the income tax a bad innovation because it meant that U.S. residents started to pay the costs of their own government. Apparently, he believes that tariffs were a way of making people in other countries pay those costs - and that it was right and proper that they should.
Or maybe he does grasp that the issue is: Which Americans will be more burdened? He seems to be fully comfortable with shifting higher costs onto average Americans so the wealthy few can keep more for themselves.
Given the traditional way supply and demand are taught and understood, sales taxes (of which tariffs are indeed a variant) raise prices, so reduce supply and demand, and that does mean the supplier/exporter does bear PART of the tariff costs in the form of reduced production, so reduced profits.
What Trump has either forgotten from Wharton or (more likely) never understood is that buyers/importers also pay in the form of the higher prices.
Trump does seem to want tariffs to REPLACE income taxes, as any wealthy person would: out with the progressive, in with the regressive. That means he wants 'em for the LONG TERM. Too bad they'd be very politically unpopular. Thus the need to play up the 11-D chess negotiating angle. Thus, not stupid, just selfish and dishonest.
In Trump's case NEVER attribute to stupidity that which could be explained by avarice.
Don't waste time with MAGA, just don't - the cult is too invested in their product. Finding the people who voted Trump and trying to convince them? A worthy effort if you can seperate the wheat from the chaff.
The apologist/excusers/Trumpsplainers will be working overtime in the coming months, and frankly there is no way to break into the bubble with enough impact to change the cultist's minds. That's only about a third of the voting population though, which leaves a lot that perhaps can be convinced.
"This is a key to unlocking the Trump coalition: When the question is execution instead of goals, the middle of the electorate turns against him."
If that is the question, I prefer executions of those ghouls who prefer those over-the-top goals, too.
More people need to be reaching out and explaining things.
Waste is a problem. However, it is pervasive and not limited to governments (corrupt or not corrupt. Non-democratic or democratic.)
People waste indiscriminately all of the time. Put a lens to an individual person and ask that person: What did you waste today?
Was it your time taking your kid to the doctor when she needed it- for reassurance. Was it accepting take-out with plastic utensils you will never use? But keep in a drawer as a just in case. Was it quiet contemplation about hard personal decisions that take you out of the rhythm of work?
I’d like the people who are being polled to answer that question. What waste do they incur, produce? And how much can they minimize their own personal waste.
I knew a guy- long ago- who dumpster-dived for food. He was a fit young guy, living in San Diego, thinking he was saving the world and being counter-cultural at the same time.
He ended up in the ER- with severe food poisoning as a result. The resources it took to save his life- incalculable.
Whatever he was trying to accomplish in ‘saving waste’ exponentially created more waste.
So re polling: ask more pointed questions. What would you do to cut down waste in the government? Would you cut salaries of the top 5% in the government making decisions that have no impact on their personal lives at all? Would you support less garbage collection and do it yourself? Would you support less education and healthy meals to stimulate a growing brain so we can all benefit from these minds in the future? Would you support less tax collection of people (corporations are considered ‘people’) and more sales tax on fuel for the car or the bus that gets you to work?
The list goes on and on.
Stupid is as Stupid does.
“Scientists say the universe is made out of hydrogen because it is the most abundant element. They’re wrong. Stupidly is far more abundant than hydrogen. And it has a longer shelf life.”
Frank Zappa
What a strange conversation this is. Bashing Trump voters, many, many of whom are not MAGA, and wishing Lincoln had let the South secede (and slavery endure) is bizarre, to put it nicely. Will put together a good argument on the utter incompetence of the Trump administration and the political advantages it creates for Democrats. Smart and consistent messaging from the Democrats -- a big if -- on GOP incompetence and corruption is a way to break the Trump spell and break the Republicans' grip on the government.
I feel uneasy in the value of the destruction of human and constitutional rights, the gutting of our research and humanitarian endeavors in the US and overseas, taking food and healthcare away from the poor, cutting down our national forests and mining its parks... as some talking point for an opposing political party. Offering a contrasting vision of what we can be as a nation is far better. Project 2025 is an anathema, a wet dream for corporations and billionaires.
Project 2025 is a farce in addition to being an assault on American values. The level of corruption and waste in the government -- pre-Trump 2.0 -- was no greater than it is in the the private and nonprofit sectors.
Most of these people who think that the government is full of waste fraud and abuse have little to no idea of what the government actually does or how--and, TBH, a lot of what they see as waste, fraud, and abuse is simply money spent on something that they do not like or do not understand, or on people that they do not like--rather than them. Any money spent of them is OBVIOUSLY NOT waste, fraud, or abuse.
They have been told by various politicians for so long that the government pisses money away (you know, those same people who, by and large voted to spend that money). People who think that the government shouldn't be doing certain things (like health insurance/health care). People who do not like regulations of any kind that might help actual citizens instead of corporations. Obviously all of those regulations and healthcare-associated spending is waste, fraud, and abuse.
Is there waste, fraud and abuse? Certainly. It isn't measured in the hundreds of billions of dollars, let alone the trillion dollar figure being floated around... and the reality is that it isn't going to go away--human nature being what it is.
And you certainly aren't going to fix it by taking a chainsaw to the government.
I can’t. I would rather fight to the death against the asshats who don’t respect the constitution and rule of law than ‘welcome them to the fold.’ They are beyond redemption at this point.
The far right is clammering for a ‘2nd Amendment solution.’ Let just freakin do it. See which way the military goes and get it over with. Give them enough time to convert the military and we’re screwed.
Actually a number of people on the left have changed their minds about gun ownership since Trump took over...lefties can buy guns too.