Tim Miller unpacks how JD Vance, Rubio, and Hegseth got undercut in real time after defending Trump’s Iran strike.
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Yeah, we have such a great track record with regime change in the Middle East. But my guess is this is another Donny does Bibi a solid. We bomb Iran, then go in there for 20 years trying to build a government. Bibi say "thank you, America. Be sure to come visit our beautiful beaches on the Mediterranean when you're done in Iran."
The Three Key Avengers? More like The Three Stooges.
Kk man I
Both Netanyahu and Putin are able to manipulate Trump
Kamala Harris said it right to his face in front of the American people in the debate
Especially the last part talking about Putin, eating him for lunch
Netanyahu and Putin are having a pretty good lunch
https://youtu.be/KrD1MLaGQfQ
Benjamin Netanyahu was also behind the message “ weapons of mass destruction” that prompted the United States to invade Iraq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzSr52fZLQ
https://www.c-span.org/clip/house-committee/user-clip-netanyahu-says-no-question-saddam-working-on-nuclear-weapons/4927483
Trump has always been working with Benjamin Netanyahu about Iran
Intentionally removing the United States the nuclear treaty that Barack Obama accomplished with Iran instead of using it as a basis going forward
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-ending-united-states-participation-unacceptable-iran-deal/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-israel-fully-supports-trumps-bold-pullout-from-iran-deal/amp/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/06/benjamin-netanyahu-aipac-trump-iran-nuclear
https://www.npr.org/2018/05/08/609383603/trump-u-s-will-withdraw-from-iran-nuclear-deal
https://open.substack.com/pub/usaf8187/p/who-opened-the-gates-trumps-recklessness?r=eit6y&utm_medium=ios
Netanyahu wants it
It continues to amaze me that Trump voters cannot see that he is mentally impaired.
Yeah, typical in these times. Cabinet and VP saying one thing, Trump saying the opposite. Trump keeps rattling the cage about regime change, even though it's not “politically correct”. You can't make this shit up.
Trump didn't say that the bombings were for regime change. He just said he would like to see regime change, if the Iranians could somehow manage it. So he did disagree with Vance. Maybe Vance can go run for president of Iran.
Is J D Vance an opportunistic chameleon?
That sums up JD exactly 😆 It takes a special talent to be more detestable than Trump, but JD for the win!
OK - It's not classic statecraft. We can pretty easily see how messaging could be done better. But, though it is noteworthy and newsworthy, should this be surprising to us or even to the principals involved in this story?
Mr. Trump may not necessarily be fully aware that he has set a contradictory message in the pathway.
So, if for example, if a member of the Sunday Show Team were confronted, live, with such a contrary message,
I think they would say, "Well it sounds like the President, upon further reflection, is finding that a regime change
In Iran is something which can have great potential."
Or...he may not know just what a "regime" is. "Something you put in a car?'
Like Febreze? I mean it sounds a little French, like, "regime." Am I going too far? I see a new line of Denims, "Regime", "But don't let your Day become regimented. Wear daylight Regimes, all day, but when evening comes, it's time to break out the night vision technology." "In short it's time for a Regime Change." "Our colors hide by night."
OY - probably went too far...
Yes, they'll come up with some mish-mash that is basically meaningless. They always do.
Hegseth appears like a wind up Ken doll with a sketchy battery
Exactly- a cyber Ken Doll. With about as much brains and vocabulary.
I think you, Tim Miller, are being a bit snarky here. It seems obvious that the 'clowns' you reference were not "in the room" when the decision was made. Hegseth, Gabbard, Rubio, Vance-all likely on the sideline for the ultimate go ahead. General Cain, the CIA director and knowledgable military people most likely were. And make no mistake, even a broken clock is right twice a day-this was the correct and courageous decision, even if made by a Mad King. Bret Stephens, Max Boot, David Ignatius and even the vile Marc Thiessen are correct in applauding this degradation of the Iranian nuclear capability.
Does anybody else have the feeling that we just stapled ourselves to Netanyahu right before he ethnically cleanses Gaza and the West Bank of about 5 million Palestinians?
I just came here to say we need more of Tim’s JD impressions. Like every day.
"Who is more foolish: the fool or the fool who follows him?" Obi-Wan Kenobi
The force is definitely not with us.
It seems rather stupid to me not to have used the bunker busting bombs on the first day of the attack. By waiting, it allowed the Iranians to move the nuclear material out of these deep bunkers, which they did. The only way to have success in this mission would be to completely destroy the Iranians’ ability to build a nuclear bomb. The only way to do that would have been to bomb all of their facilities before they knew the attack was coming. With this attack, you’ve made it impossible to use. Diplomatic means to slow their production of a nuclear warhead. They will move full steam ahead in doing so.
You can't completely destroy anyone's ability to build nuclear weapons - the knowledge how to do it is here. You can't 'unknow' the science behind it. That's the problem.
Another problem is that everytime a non-nuclear-country is attacked, it is an ad for others to spead up their efforts to get nukes.
This is why Ukraine, after giving up the nuclear weapons stored on their territory (Budapester Memorandum), has been invaded and North Korea, barely able to exist on their own, has not..
True, but this bombing, along with the various killings of Iranian nuclear scientists over the years, with two significant killings just this month, does significantly slow down the restoration of their nuclear program. I'm mostly concerned at this point about the immediate expected retaliation(s) as I don't think they are going to roll over. I hope to be wrong and diplomacy will prevail.
Tim, there is no “American government” anymore - there is only the Trump government now. And the Trump government is controlled by Putin and Bibi.
As JVL likes to say “Good luck America”!
good night....and good luck
I somehow managed to laugh listening to this--to laugh out loud while thinking about the state of the government and the recent bombings. It's down to Tim's gift for lighthearted-but-heartfelt candor, even in moments of such gravity and uncertainty.
BTW, I had a similar thing happen to me & some friends as a teenager, driving too fast on a slick road: out of control and flying, the car spun three times, crossing the oncoming lane and off the road into an adjacent parking lot. Incredibly, we made contact with nothing except one curb during the flight and came to a halt facing the same direction we had started in. If we had skidded on any of countless slightly different trajectories, we might have easily been killed, but pure dumb luck was on our side.
Vance’s conflicting interests, uncertainty, and discomfort here are a gift.
The clown cabinet is so used to wearing big bus tire tracks all over their clothes & faces they think tracks are part of the fabric. Morons be morons so they don’t notice everywhere around them ETTD—still true. As JVL noted— Good luck America.
MIGA is gunna be all over FOX and the Republicans rhetoric. The cultists will eat that shit up too even though its the LAZIEST justification.
There’s always a dated tweet from F47 or someone in his administration that is hypocritical of what they say or do.
Actually they don't want regime change - because a new regime will not be friendly to us or to Israel. What they want is chaos - for the Iranians to be fighting against and killing each other.
The scariest part is as Tim Miller said, this is a clown show being led by a group of unserious, unqualified people, who think they are “serious and qualified.”
I just shows how "out to lunch" Trump is...he has no idea of complicated global issues. We know that -- will the people who voted for him realize it before their loved ones in the military get deployed.
These 3 men are clowns and so weird.
The Democrats biggest mistake was not focusing the last election on just how weird these people are.
What\ - to give it over to the revolutionary Guard?
https://open.substack.com/pub/usaf8187/p/who-opened-the-gates-trumps-recklessness?r=eit6y&utm_medium=ios
This is chef's kiss vintage Tim
As Michael Cohen has said: for those who get close to Trump, it never turns out well--top advisors, lawyers, fixers-- it all turns out the same. I wonder how long it will be before any of these three goons (Hegseth, Rubio, or Vance) decide somewhere inside themselves there's a shred of dignity that remains...and begin to turn against Trump?
No chance. They have hitched their wagons to his star and they will not turn back.
Article 25, now?
Of course this is about regime change, and everyone knows it. And while I respect the differing of opinions at the Bulwark, as an American I cannot support military action taken by an utterly un-American commander in chief who is attempting to destroy our democracy on a daily basis. I trust him about as much as I trust Putin -- except that Putin is far more intelligent. As for Bibi, he is a corruption riddled war criminal. You cannot have two morally bankrupt leaders running a war under a fake banner of freedom. This is a war without honor.
And let's not forget, if there is a terrorist act taken in response on American soil, Trump will invoke martial law and become the dictator he has always longed to be.
I thought I’d gotten over my PTSD from my son’s late teenage/early college years, but no - you had to share that snowstorm story…. Separately, I think Trump must have spoken with Bibi just prior to the MIGA post. That seems like the kind of thing they’d cook up.
MIGA to go with TACO
Where’s Russia on all of this - Putin isn’t interested in a regime change - they have their own personal “ contract” with Iran
From WSJ
Iran’s foreign minister said he planned to fly to Moscow and would meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin for consultations on how to proceed.
Some people never learn. It's nowhere near as good as 'TACO' but I'll go with 'TAFY': Trump always fucks you. And that goes for everyone from JD to the millions of MAGA voters who consistently refused to acknowledge the glaringly obvious. I don't feel bad for any of them (esp not our worm of a veep). But I feel pretty bad for the rest of us.
What I found most interesting about Trump's MIGA bleat is that Trump did not invent the MIGA concept. There have been MIGA memes floating around everywhere for the past couple of weeks. It is a slogan of supporters of Reza Pahlavi, claimant to the throne, on twitter. He has some support from Israeli's but I expected him to have none from Trump because I'm pretty sure Trump thinks his dad was a loser. That said, if regime change happens in Iran in that way, it could have some good consequences, for the people of Iran, freed from their despots. [See the excellent French language animated movie Persepolis to learn how much good Shah hatred did for Persian liberals in the past.] It would be good for the middle east. And it would be good for Ukraine. Putin is the strongest opposition to regime change for this reason. It is why he keeps calling for a ceasefire.
Oh Trump might have anchored his heirs to the throne to this shit show? Raise your hand if you saw that betrayal coming🙋🏽
How long you think before Hegseth falls off the wagon?
Are we sure he was ever on it?
A month ago?
Thanks Tim. I agree with everything you said. Trump will replace Lou Gehrig as the luckiest man on the face of the earth if he gets away with this one. What do you think Iran is thinking when they see these clowns in action. Iran knows these people better than they know themselves. If Iran goes dark for awhile, this has all the makings of the battle of waterloo. Trump gets the Napoleon part he's been auditioning for.
So Jimmy Deplorable, Pickled Pete, and Marco Stupido learn the price of subservience to a demon child. Couldn't have happened to smarter bunch of morons.
Iran has had two weeks to evacuate kits and fissile bits. We cannot bomb knowledge. They can reassemble their program.
Vance , Hegseth and Rubio haven’t learned that trump changes his mind constantly and it doesn’t matter he will throw them under the bus… all their praise for the “brilliant “great leader who couldn’t give a flip about anyone but himself… weak trying to look strong…
Vance, Hegseth and Rubio won’t/don’t care that they look like stooges. They’re all drunk on power and are thinking of the money they will make on memoirs, future gigs on Fox, Newsmax or OANN, etc. or working for a Wall Street firm or right wing think tank.
This is the O-turd's clown cabinet taking him at his word, blah, blah, blaming the "unified" message - looking all official - then O-turd bleats out his ass and the clowns have to get back in their widdle clown car.
Tim - thanks for the break down, and take down of the clown car 💩 show. The difference between your 21 road trip and our current trip is … you were young, there was consensus in your car and nobody, despite youth, could possibly have been as incompetent as what’s going on now. Grateful for you, the Bulwark, and the current meme game to lighten this dark time. Have you seen the Dear Iran map one with the golf course …
Nothing about this situation is funny, but Tim’s delivery of his analysis of Trump throwing Vance, Hegseth, and Rubio under the bus after their responses on the Sunday shows did give me a much-needed smile and giggle. Thanks, Tim!
Where are the adults to watch over toddlers running our country?
Whether or not Trump is going to throw everyone under the bus is old news. It's dog bites man, it's beating a dead horse. Whether it's worth our while to actually pursue a "regime change" in Iran, if by that we mean killing the current leadership and helping Iran to restore the democracy we toppled in 1953, is the actual question, and it should be debated. You Bulwark folks are among those who should be debating it, not simply using this our latest war as the basis for criticizing the Trump admistration. Consider Trump and his minions disgraced! Okay, now move on to the issues at hand.
The Iran of 1953 doesn’t exist anymore and there’s no way to go back there and make amends even if we wanted to. Regime change was a disaster in Iraq with a more competent administration than we have now and a much smaller population. I’m all for Iranian self determination free of the mullahs, but we’re hardly in a position to midwife that particularly given our own backsliding on the democracy issue. I’m not sure the child that might arise out of us trying to create democracy in Iran is one anyone would want.
No one ever knows what the consequences of acting morally will be. However, we’ve experimented extensively with acting immorally in our global affairs and we’re well able to assess how that has worked out for us and everyone else concerned. An argument that reduces to “it’s too late to do the right thing,” can never reach a moral conclusion. It’s intrinsically flawed.
I am not saying we shouldn’t do the right thing, however, trying to elucidate the right thing to do is tricky and not straightforward. There are those who believe bombing Iran’s nuclear sites was the right thing to do. Maybe, maybe not. We don’t know the long term outcomes and we don’t know if this was the right or wrong thing to do and may not know that for a long time. I’m not sure the Iranians are waiting for us to come and atone for the signs of 1953 either. Sometimes the right thing to do is stay out of other countries period.
I’m glad to see that you’re taking a position on the issue.
Tim is my favorite political podcaster and his disdain for JD is well deserved!
I’m having Iraq flashbacks.
Thank you, Tim….You are saving my sanity.
I really hope that soldiers would, if possible, start resigning their commissions in protest. They shouldn’t have to die for an illegal and unconstitutional war. Of course, that may mean that Trump would reinstate the draft. “We the People” may deserve that for voting this… so called person back into office. Even the people who didn’t vote for him. We’re still included in the We for “We the People”.
Just proves to me that this strike was planned but they have no real plan beyond that. Maybe Bibi will let them know what the plan is.
I think they have had these plans for years, but no one put them into action because of how serious the consequences may be. And now we are about to find out.
Yes! I just think it’s absurd to think that this is a good idea with these guys in charge. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it might be a good idea. Or the discussion of it. Maybe it will turn out okay, but that would be sheer luck.
Yes yes yes. And so far that sheer luck has not wrapped itself around us in a graceful wreath after any of F47’s brain farts. What we’ve gotten is the stink that issues from him, violent & racist rhetoric, sloganeering and stupid obfuscations. The idea that debate about regime change while donny & his flying monkey crew is in charge could contribute positively to conditions in the Middle East (or anywhere) is absurd.
Tim, we are in big fucking trouble for all the reasons you expressed and MORE reasons. God or whatever help us.
We only have ourselves. Keep fighting.
Karma … for the three stooges
JD is passively and actively horrible. He’s somehow way worse below the surface. Evil
I don't like to hate anyone or say nasty things about anyone but boy o boy these guys make it so hard Vance and Trump. Love you Tim.
Same. I am reluctant to use the word "hate" but I'm there with Trump and vance.
It's okay to hate the hate. Which is all he does besides lots and lots of golfing.
CORRECTION: ...lots and lots of cheating at golf.