In addition to the prior vote you cites, they’ve allowed Hamas to use their homes as entry/exit points for the tunnel network. They’ve also allowed Hamas to use hospitals and schools as stash houses, weapons caches, and/or operations centers. That’s materially supporting a terror group who even before 10/7 was always launching rockets at Israeli civilians rather than engaging only the IDF.
Aside from that material support, they also don’t ever try to fight against Hamas physically, rather they allow/encourage their male children to join the group rather than fight to overthrow it.
The president of the United States cannot stop the Israeli government from doing anything but a family from an apartment should die because they could not stop Hamas from building a tunnel exit in the basement of their building.
In addition: if known Hamas members are your neighbors, rat them out to the IDF rather than just sitting there and allowing a terror group to proliferate inside of your society. 10/7 was the result of 15+ years of Palestinians tolerating the presence of Hamas rather than either 1) violently overthrowing them or 2) ratting them out to the IDF en masse. Because they tolerated the presence of Hamas rather than snitching on or killing them, they gave Hamas the space to build a force 20,000+ strong and eventually capable of carrying out an attack like 10/7. Because Palestinian society tolerated the presence of Hamas for all of that time, Hamas returned the favor by using their fellow Palestinians as protective sandbags for IDF strikes. How’d all those years of tolerating Hamas work out for the Palestinians?
Al Qaeda in Iraq tortured and killed any Sunni suspected of cooperating with the new Iraqi government or coalition forces. That didn’t stop the Sunnis from turning on AQI and ending the Sunni-Shia civil war there that raged from ‘06-‘08 though. Palestinian men face that same choice: turn on Hamas—regardless of the risk factor, or condemn your children and grandchildren to more years of the violence cycle.
A lot of them take kickbacks from Hamas for allowing the exit to be built under their property, and they *can* do something if they don’t want a tunnel exit there: tell the IDF. If they allow the tunnel exit to be built on their property they are inviting lethal IDF raids and/or strikes designed to destroy the tunnel.
Pretty simple: don’t want the tunnels? 1) tell Hamas they can’t build them there instead of offering to help, and if Hamas doesn’t listen then 2) tell the IDF about the construction so that they can kill the Hamas builders.
No, I'm saying that in a pre-10/7 world the IDF would have done a limited incursion like they've done countless times before when they have good intel. When they lack that intel because the Palestinians condone the tunnel construction rather than report it, then the IDF can't do precise raids that kill the builders with gunfire and they end up destroying the tunnels the hard way after an attack like 10/7. If the ant's nest of tunnels hadn't been condoned by the Palestinians, there would be far less need for using air-dropped munitions as opposed to ground incursions. The easier it is for Hamas to hide underground, the harder it is for the IDF to find them precisely. If Palestinians had ratted out the builders years ago, they wouldn't be dealing with the aftermath of what Hamas uses those tunnels for. Sorry, but once you pick a side and help them dig, you're not exactly innocent anymore, and if that fallout affects your children later on then that's of your own making as much as it is the IDF's. Palestinians have a choice, and they chose to materially-support Hamas and condemned their children to the down-stream fallout as a consequence of their material support to Hamas. Palestinians are the terrorism version of mafia wives.
Where were we on 9/11 when Dick Clarke had been flashing the warning signals to Bush in August that Bin Laden was "determined to attack US homeland"?
Everyone--even the hardest defense hawks--miss the mark when they have "failures of imagination" that tend to relate more to the intelligence community and executive decisions more so than the military. The IDF were responding that day in force, but the intel side of things is where the let real downs were.
Again, downstream consequences of what their parents chose. See my other response. These kids are the unfortunate victims of their parent's decisions to materially-support Hamas by condoning tunnel construction and refusing to rat out their neighbors so that they can get killed by the IDF surgically *before* mass-military campaigns in the wake of the worst terror attack since 9/11. Ask their Palestinian parents why they weren't thinking about their children's future safety when they condoned Hamas and allowed them to build an ant's nest of tunnels under their homes and use their hospitals as operations centers and weapons caches. Because I know what *I'd* do if an open terrorist organization was using my kid's schools and hospitals as operational centers and trying to build tunnel networks under my home. Stop denying the choices these Palestinian parents made in condoning Hamas. Are you *ever* going to find any fault whatsoever with a Palestinian society who materially-supports a terrorist organization and refuses to report them or fight them on their own? Or is that just okay in your book?
I'm curious how their parents have been materially supporting Hamas. My understanding is that there was only the one pro-Hamas vote in 2006..?
In addition to the prior vote you cites, they’ve allowed Hamas to use their homes as entry/exit points for the tunnel network. They’ve also allowed Hamas to use hospitals and schools as stash houses, weapons caches, and/or operations centers. That’s materially supporting a terror group who even before 10/7 was always launching rockets at Israeli civilians rather than engaging only the IDF.
Aside from that material support, they also don’t ever try to fight against Hamas physically, rather they allow/encourage their male children to join the group rather than fight to overthrow it.
The president of the United States cannot stop the Israeli government from doing anything but a family from an apartment should die because they could not stop Hamas from building a tunnel exit in the basement of their building.
Got it.
In addition: if known Hamas members are your neighbors, rat them out to the IDF rather than just sitting there and allowing a terror group to proliferate inside of your society. 10/7 was the result of 15+ years of Palestinians tolerating the presence of Hamas rather than either 1) violently overthrowing them or 2) ratting them out to the IDF en masse. Because they tolerated the presence of Hamas rather than snitching on or killing them, they gave Hamas the space to build a force 20,000+ strong and eventually capable of carrying out an attack like 10/7. Because Palestinian society tolerated the presence of Hamas for all of that time, Hamas returned the favor by using their fellow Palestinians as protective sandbags for IDF strikes. How’d all those years of tolerating Hamas work out for the Palestinians?
There was originally resistance but Hamas killed anyone who opposed them; Hamas threw people off the roof of buildings.
Al Qaeda in Iraq tortured and killed any Sunni suspected of cooperating with the new Iraqi government or coalition forces. That didn’t stop the Sunnis from turning on AQI and ending the Sunni-Shia civil war there that raged from ‘06-‘08 though. Palestinian men face that same choice: turn on Hamas—regardless of the risk factor, or condemn your children and grandchildren to more years of the violence cycle.
A lot of them take kickbacks from Hamas for allowing the exit to be built under their property, and they *can* do something if they don’t want a tunnel exit there: tell the IDF. If they allow the tunnel exit to be built on their property they are inviting lethal IDF raids and/or strikes designed to destroy the tunnel.
Pretty simple: don’t want the tunnels? 1) tell Hamas they can’t build them there instead of offering to help, and if Hamas doesn’t listen then 2) tell the IDF about the construction so that they can kill the Hamas builders.
"tell the IDF about the construction so that they can kill the Hamas builders."
Except that what the IDF actually did was destroy buildings. You are saying residents of the buildings should have invited the IDF to bomb them.
No, I'm saying that in a pre-10/7 world the IDF would have done a limited incursion like they've done countless times before when they have good intel. When they lack that intel because the Palestinians condone the tunnel construction rather than report it, then the IDF can't do precise raids that kill the builders with gunfire and they end up destroying the tunnels the hard way after an attack like 10/7. If the ant's nest of tunnels hadn't been condoned by the Palestinians, there would be far less need for using air-dropped munitions as opposed to ground incursions. The easier it is for Hamas to hide underground, the harder it is for the IDF to find them precisely. If Palestinians had ratted out the builders years ago, they wouldn't be dealing with the aftermath of what Hamas uses those tunnels for. Sorry, but once you pick a side and help them dig, you're not exactly innocent anymore, and if that fallout affects your children later on then that's of your own making as much as it is the IDF's. Palestinians have a choice, and they chose to materially-support Hamas and condemned their children to the down-stream fallout as a consequence of their material support to Hamas. Palestinians are the terrorism version of mafia wives.
Except the IDF wasn't targeting Hamas before Oct 7. The Netanyahu government approved Qatari $ support for Hamas.
Would you care to explain the Gaza incursions in 2009, 2014, and 2018 by the IDF that targeted Hamas then?
Some history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_conflict
Where were they on October 7?
Where were we on 9/11 when Dick Clarke had been flashing the warning signals to Bush in August that Bin Laden was "determined to attack US homeland"?
Everyone--even the hardest defense hawks--miss the mark when they have "failures of imagination" that tend to relate more to the intelligence community and executive decisions more so than the military. The IDF were responding that day in force, but the intel side of things is where the let real downs were.
And what is the military purpose of starving children who weren't even born yet when those tunnels were built?
Again, downstream consequences of what their parents chose. See my other response. These kids are the unfortunate victims of their parent's decisions to materially-support Hamas by condoning tunnel construction and refusing to rat out their neighbors so that they can get killed by the IDF surgically *before* mass-military campaigns in the wake of the worst terror attack since 9/11. Ask their Palestinian parents why they weren't thinking about their children's future safety when they condoned Hamas and allowed them to build an ant's nest of tunnels under their homes and use their hospitals as operations centers and weapons caches. Because I know what *I'd* do if an open terrorist organization was using my kid's schools and hospitals as operational centers and trying to build tunnel networks under my home. Stop denying the choices these Palestinian parents made in condoning Hamas. Are you *ever* going to find any fault whatsoever with a Palestinian society who materially-supports a terrorist organization and refuses to report them or fight them on their own? Or is that just okay in your book?
I won't argue with you Travis. It just seems so unfair. If I was a woman in Gaza I don't know what I could have done to prevent this.