I feel more skeptical of Israel’s actual motivations than you do, Tim, especially observing the state-sponsored deliberate murdering and displacement of Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.
I very much agree with what you are saying. More and more it seems that the very violent, maniacal, and thoughtless people are grabbing for power everywhere. They are using all of us as hostages for whatever grievance, real or imagined, that they have. There has to be a better way to settle our differences (and there will always be differences) than maiming, impoverishing, and destroying on another. Sometimes I feel there has to be an almost cosmic shift in consciousness to make this happen. Trump, Putin, Netanyahu, and others are all trying to stay in power to shield themselves from the consequences of their actions and to stay out of jail. Biden is a great president and I hate to see him used as a whipping boy for thugs and followers of thugs. As you said so well, Hamas,(much like the Taliban), does not know or care about governing. Neither does MAGA. Meanwhile, innocent people and all manner of other living beings are being maimed and killed for someone else's grievances.
The attacks into southern Israel against the IDF outposts and bases are clearly legitimate. Targeting soldiers and military installations that enforce an illegal occupation are legitimate. Not to minimize that civilians were taken captive too, capturing military prisoners of war is legitimate.
If Hamas were to surrender, at best Gazans would suffer the fate of the other Palestinians in the West Bank, where the IDF and settlers already before October 7 had killed 291, bulldozed homes, imprisoned without charge and generally abused their power in countless ways. But we all know it would be worse than that.
It is not clear how Miller knows “how genocides work”. You would think the International Court of Justice, actually created to prosecute genocides by the institution that defined genocides, would know better. It has ruled there is a plausible genocide.
None of this is to minimize the horrific deaths of innocent civilians on October 7. It is fair to criticize Hamas’s actions.
Joe Biden may not have American soldiers directly killing Palestinians but he is continually supplying the weapons and bombs that make Israel’s war crimes possible. He has used the American UN veto to give impunity to Israel’s actions. He is using the US Navy to intimidate any regional power that wishes to thwart Israel’s revenge.
If it were not for the millions of votes at risk, Biden would not have “expressed reservations” or let it leak that he had a “heated phone call”. Weak stuff. You don’t have to be a genocidal maniac yourself to have an unbreakable bond with one.
Something MAGA and Genocidal Joe folks have in common: they just want voting to be a cathartic emotional demonstration. Or as people like to brag, "going with their gut." Real consequences can never compare.
Children (which means, these days, anyone under 25) have no idea what genocide means. But the cool kids are calling the Hamas War genocide. Maybe someday they will stew in their ignorance.
I’m adding one more: what do they expect the president to do? The only thing I am hoping is to be conditions of arms. He has already pushed back. He is not running the show. Netanyahu is. I think young people think America can force their hand. He has limits. I just think young people get it. Social media just makes it worse. G-d forbid it was Trump. I don’t wish that on anyone. If he gets in the White House he would hand Gaza to Israel and throw Gaza’s out and throw away the key. I wish everyone would just be more rational.
I’m glad you are discussing this. Because I just commented to a friend. Where this is relevant. I watched PBS Frontline, it was reported. Which I wasn’t aware of. In the Trump administration did not have negotiations with Palestinians/ and Israel. All the decisions were made with Israel and US. No wonder this led up to Oct. 7. Of course they are angry. They should have been involved. Who knows maybe Oct. 7th wouldn’t have happened. Or not, but at least they would have been at the table. The administration just wanted to look good, as long as it was fast, and noticed. They were thrilled. Why, because Israel since the state was formed was never able to agree. It would look great on Trump’s record. I always thought something was sneaky and underhanded. Then again in Afghanistan, do you re-call I thought it was appalling Taliban had negotiations determining Aghani’s fate to begin with. Either way negations should have been on both sides. Yes, Biden could have rescinded the agreement( not sure if that is true)in Aghanistan, maybe. I’m not too sure about that. . But either way in either case. Trump wanted to look good politically. Besides I always thought it was strange in a short time an agreement was made with, I can’t remember if it was Taliban, or Al-queda( forgive me). He didn’t care how reckless it was as long as he got done on his administration. No one is talking about this. He is a danger here.. and more dangerous globally. Everything that is going on globally he has had a hand in. Just think and ponder that!
Calling Joe Biden genocidal is ridiculous - I think he's done a good job doing what he can, threading the needle of a terrible crisis.
That said - I still don't think the full scale of the conflict has been grasped by government (or by the Bulwark and a lot of its readers - I've seen famine denialism even on here). Haaretz is reporting that an epistemological study of current conditions predicts a potential death toll of 100'000 - 120'000 Palestinians by August.
Let that sink in and imagine the scale of outrage throughout the world if it gets that bad. There won't be going back to business as usual ever if Israel is found to commit genocide.
And it will absolutely sink Biden's chance of reelection.
Genocide is conducted by Communist China against Muslim and Tibetan Buddhists. With support from Iran who provided weapons and funding for the Hamas war. There may be war crimes committed in Gaza but calling it genocide provides a distraction for China.
College students have strong opinions and little experience. In fact College Professors for years thought Karl Marx was the answers to the problems of the poor. 34 million Chinese died of starvation during the Great Leap Forward, and one could argue Mao was a H.M. But he was a dictator who followed a very destructive path, rather than an HM, although he was very hard on his people. Hamas wants to destroy Israel. They are willing to let their people die to do so. Are they HM? Perhaps or perhaps just a ruthless extension of the leadership of a ruthless nation. What should Israel do? Keep itself from being destroyed? Could they have better leadership? Could they do it with fewer civilian casualties? College students have some good ideas. The reason they are in college is to prepare them for future leadership.
Tim, I agree that President Biden is Not a genocidal maniac. Biden's character and morals would not allow him to even have an idea of committing genocide to any nation of people, anywhere in the world.
Also, your explaining who the real maniacs are, showed themselves on January 6th, 2021, with their insurrection of the Capitol, and they unfortunately still exist. Of course, they were just following their Savior Tump's incitement.
When it comes to El Boudali: well, his and other's hateful wishes that someone should kill Biden on social media or in University conversations, makes me sick inside, be it to kill Biden or anyone. El Boudali and the other hate infested individuals that exercise their comments back and forth each day, are why I distance myself from such hateful antagonism and environment.
About Israel and its unending bombing of Gaza and to-date killing of over 33,000 Palestinians, mostly innocent women and children, I believe it's time to STOP!!! Israel, Enough payback is Enough! Clarissa Ward of CNN two weeks ago, had an interview in Israel and the West Bank, with an Israeli group of people who are joining and signing up to move into Gaza, once, the lady said, "...when all the Palestinians are out of Gaza". Ward's interview and video of this is at CNN. Has Netanyahu and his extreme Right government given Israeli's who back him up the okay that this will happen? What about innocent Palestinians finally having their own State in Gaza?
This is the thing that concerns me most about the election, although it's pretty hard to fathom that the Genocide Joe crowd, if they're that educated and informed about the Mideast, think Trump will do a better job.
I keep wondering what, exactly, Biden is supposed to be doing to control the Israelis other than what he is doing.
He has things that he could do (mostly talking and making threats about withholding supplies/support)--which he seems to be doing. Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction (but then one side or the other is not going to be satisfied and you tread a tightrope on this).
The people actually DOING things are... let's see... the Israelis. And it isn't (as pointed out) genocide--which is a word we have gotten a bit too free with in political discourse, along with a bunch of other words.
Hyperbole has gotten a bit out of control and too many people take it literally.
And it isn't like Donald Trump or RFK is going to be an improvement in that department, on top of them being of questionable intellectual and ethical capacity.
Maybe we should stop giving Presidents credit/blame for the work and actions of other people... and maybe we should also stop and realize that, despite being the #1 power on the planet (for now), there are pretty narrow limits on what we can actually do or force other countries to do.
I feel more skeptical of Israel’s actual motivations than you do, Tim, especially observing the state-sponsored deliberate murdering and displacement of Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.
Hi Eric,
I very much agree with what you are saying. More and more it seems that the very violent, maniacal, and thoughtless people are grabbing for power everywhere. They are using all of us as hostages for whatever grievance, real or imagined, that they have. There has to be a better way to settle our differences (and there will always be differences) than maiming, impoverishing, and destroying on another. Sometimes I feel there has to be an almost cosmic shift in consciousness to make this happen. Trump, Putin, Netanyahu, and others are all trying to stay in power to shield themselves from the consequences of their actions and to stay out of jail. Biden is a great president and I hate to see him used as a whipping boy for thugs and followers of thugs. As you said so well, Hamas,(much like the Taliban), does not know or care about governing. Neither does MAGA. Meanwhile, innocent people and all manner of other living beings are being maimed and killed for someone else's grievances.
If not Genocide Joe, then who?
The attacks into southern Israel against the IDF outposts and bases are clearly legitimate. Targeting soldiers and military installations that enforce an illegal occupation are legitimate. Not to minimize that civilians were taken captive too, capturing military prisoners of war is legitimate.
If Hamas were to surrender, at best Gazans would suffer the fate of the other Palestinians in the West Bank, where the IDF and settlers already before October 7 had killed 291, bulldozed homes, imprisoned without charge and generally abused their power in countless ways. But we all know it would be worse than that.
It is not clear how Miller knows “how genocides work”. You would think the International Court of Justice, actually created to prosecute genocides by the institution that defined genocides, would know better. It has ruled there is a plausible genocide.
None of this is to minimize the horrific deaths of innocent civilians on October 7. It is fair to criticize Hamas’s actions.
Joe Biden may not have American soldiers directly killing Palestinians but he is continually supplying the weapons and bombs that make Israel’s war crimes possible. He has used the American UN veto to give impunity to Israel’s actions. He is using the US Navy to intimidate any regional power that wishes to thwart Israel’s revenge.
If it were not for the millions of votes at risk, Biden would not have “expressed reservations” or let it leak that he had a “heated phone call”. Weak stuff. You don’t have to be a genocidal maniac yourself to have an unbreakable bond with one.
Sorry for repetitive efforts- though it does bear repetition for those of us who are hard of listening
Something MAGA and Genocidal Joe folks have in common: they just want voting to be a cathartic emotional demonstration. Or as people like to brag, "going with their gut." Real consequences can never compare.
Children (which means, these days, anyone under 25) have no idea what genocide means. But the cool kids are calling the Hamas War genocide. Maybe someday they will stew in their ignorance.
I’m adding one more: what do they expect the president to do? The only thing I am hoping is to be conditions of arms. He has already pushed back. He is not running the show. Netanyahu is. I think young people think America can force their hand. He has limits. I just think young people get it. Social media just makes it worse. G-d forbid it was Trump. I don’t wish that on anyone. If he gets in the White House he would hand Gaza to Israel and throw Gaza’s out and throw away the key. I wish everyone would just be more rational.
I’m glad you are discussing this. Because I just commented to a friend. Where this is relevant. I watched PBS Frontline, it was reported. Which I wasn’t aware of. In the Trump administration did not have negotiations with Palestinians/ and Israel. All the decisions were made with Israel and US. No wonder this led up to Oct. 7. Of course they are angry. They should have been involved. Who knows maybe Oct. 7th wouldn’t have happened. Or not, but at least they would have been at the table. The administration just wanted to look good, as long as it was fast, and noticed. They were thrilled. Why, because Israel since the state was formed was never able to agree. It would look great on Trump’s record. I always thought something was sneaky and underhanded. Then again in Afghanistan, do you re-call I thought it was appalling Taliban had negotiations determining Aghani’s fate to begin with. Either way negations should have been on both sides. Yes, Biden could have rescinded the agreement( not sure if that is true)in Aghanistan, maybe. I’m not too sure about that. . But either way in either case. Trump wanted to look good politically. Besides I always thought it was strange in a short time an agreement was made with, I can’t remember if it was Taliban, or Al-queda( forgive me). He didn’t care how reckless it was as long as he got done on his administration. No one is talking about this. He is a danger here.. and more dangerous globally. Everything that is going on globally he has had a hand in. Just think and ponder that!
Calling Joe Biden genocidal is ridiculous - I think he's done a good job doing what he can, threading the needle of a terrible crisis.
That said - I still don't think the full scale of the conflict has been grasped by government (or by the Bulwark and a lot of its readers - I've seen famine denialism even on here). Haaretz is reporting that an epistemological study of current conditions predicts a potential death toll of 100'000 - 120'000 Palestinians by August.
Let that sink in and imagine the scale of outrage throughout the world if it gets that bad. There won't be going back to business as usual ever if Israel is found to commit genocide.
And it will absolutely sink Biden's chance of reelection.
Genocide is conducted by Communist China against Muslim and Tibetan Buddhists. With support from Iran who provided weapons and funding for the Hamas war. There may be war crimes committed in Gaza but calling it genocide provides a distraction for China.
College students have strong opinions and little experience. In fact College Professors for years thought Karl Marx was the answers to the problems of the poor. 34 million Chinese died of starvation during the Great Leap Forward, and one could argue Mao was a H.M. But he was a dictator who followed a very destructive path, rather than an HM, although he was very hard on his people. Hamas wants to destroy Israel. They are willing to let their people die to do so. Are they HM? Perhaps or perhaps just a ruthless extension of the leadership of a ruthless nation. What should Israel do? Keep itself from being destroyed? Could they have better leadership? Could they do it with fewer civilian casualties? College students have some good ideas. The reason they are in college is to prepare them for future leadership.
Tim, I agree that President Biden is Not a genocidal maniac. Biden's character and morals would not allow him to even have an idea of committing genocide to any nation of people, anywhere in the world.
Also, your explaining who the real maniacs are, showed themselves on January 6th, 2021, with their insurrection of the Capitol, and they unfortunately still exist. Of course, they were just following their Savior Tump's incitement.
When it comes to El Boudali: well, his and other's hateful wishes that someone should kill Biden on social media or in University conversations, makes me sick inside, be it to kill Biden or anyone. El Boudali and the other hate infested individuals that exercise their comments back and forth each day, are why I distance myself from such hateful antagonism and environment.
About Israel and its unending bombing of Gaza and to-date killing of over 33,000 Palestinians, mostly innocent women and children, I believe it's time to STOP!!! Israel, Enough payback is Enough! Clarissa Ward of CNN two weeks ago, had an interview in Israel and the West Bank, with an Israeli group of people who are joining and signing up to move into Gaza, once, the lady said, "...when all the Palestinians are out of Gaza". Ward's interview and video of this is at CNN. Has Netanyahu and his extreme Right government given Israeli's who back him up the okay that this will happen? What about innocent Palestinians finally having their own State in Gaza?
I hope you reply to El Boudali w this excellent explainer. I would but I’m no longer on Twitter.
This is the thing that concerns me most about the election, although it's pretty hard to fathom that the Genocide Joe crowd, if they're that educated and informed about the Mideast, think Trump will do a better job.
Tim, as always, clears away the fluff AND debris of today's debate about everything. Great job!
I keep wondering what, exactly, Biden is supposed to be doing to control the Israelis other than what he is doing.
He has things that he could do (mostly talking and making threats about withholding supplies/support)--which he seems to be doing. Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction (but then one side or the other is not going to be satisfied and you tread a tightrope on this).
The people actually DOING things are... let's see... the Israelis. And it isn't (as pointed out) genocide--which is a word we have gotten a bit too free with in political discourse, along with a bunch of other words.
Hyperbole has gotten a bit out of control and too many people take it literally.
And it isn't like Donald Trump or RFK is going to be an improvement in that department, on top of them being of questionable intellectual and ethical capacity.
Maybe we should stop giving Presidents credit/blame for the work and actions of other people... and maybe we should also stop and realize that, despite being the #1 power on the planet (for now), there are pretty narrow limits on what we can actually do or force other countries to do.