@JVL I had a very hard time squaring your praise for Lieberman with his latter years. I share your appreciation for his past. Yet, I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation about his true values as he aged.
Far from the nice guy shtick he portrayed, Lieberman acted like a naive misguided fool at best and a petty anti (fill in the blank) at worst. He stuck me as a slow burn bomb trying to destroy everything he created, all with a smile and for a completely unknown reason other than to be perceived as being “fair”.
Examples of this include:
1) Threatening censorship of music for subjectively “explicit” lyrics (despite his experience helping to register disenfranchised African-Americans register to vote and exercise their Constitutional rights).
2) Supporting the invasion of Iraq (but somehow a victim when the opponents’ points against invasion were actually in line as feared).
3) Supporting McCain and speaking on his behalf in 2008 against Obama for …
4) Singlehandedly blocking a public option for the ACA in defense of CT’s insurance industry, all while masquerading as being principled.
5) Sponsoring No Labels because both the Dems and GOP are equally bad?
6) Recommending a RICO suit against JVL et al because … they don’t like an organized political party fighting back?
@JVL, your show with Mona was stunningly out of character. You gave Lieberman as many excuses as a MAGA supporter does Trump when he says and does what he means.
I was very disappointed with your observations and comments and thought they completely missed the mark.
Totally agree. Mona was an Iraq War cheerleader from the jump and for years afterward, so no surprise there. I expected better from JVL. Lieberman devolved from a decent Senator to a narcissistic old coot who thought anyone who disagreed with him was not only wrong but needed to be investigated (i.e., the No Labels star turn).
I also have enormous admiration for senator Lieberman, but I was disappointed he was working with No Labels. JVL — your writings about the late Senator were heartwarming. I’d like to think the good Senator would say — ya know, I might be fallible.
As a disabled vet, I watched him and Graham leech off John McCain and pretend they served...and Graham's cushy air force job was never service or risk.
McCain failed to teach Lieberman country first. I'm sorry for that. Lieberman was always about himself, not the rest of us.
I believe an artificial island in front of the bridge piling would have prevented this accident. I say that based on what a pilot in Savannah Georgia said yesterday. He was asked if a similar accident could destroy the bridge in Savannah. He said no, because the piling is far from the navigation channel. It is in such shallow water that if a ship went out of control and headed toward it, before it struck the piling "it would run aground." Apparently he believes running aground would stop even a large ship abruptly. It is not going to skid along for some distance before whacking into the piling. Of course the ship would be severely damaged.
Engineers can work out how big a triangular island of rocks and sand would have to be in order to stop the largest container ship. I think it would be reasonably small, because I have seen such islands in front of other bridges.
The channel is 50 feet deep there, so it would not be a huge undertaking.
There really needs to be some revision of the FEC rules on campaign funds used for legal fees for corruption charges. Perhaps just a rule that if the person LOSES and is adjudged corrupt he has to pay back the funds from his personal funds?
I'm curious--does anyone know if Trump used campaign funds for E Jean Carroll and the Letitia James suits? Neither of those seems to be within the FEC rules.
Sen. Joe Lieberman’s final warning to President Biden: “If you abandon Israel in order to garner the support of anti-Israel extremists within the Democratic Party, it will be difficult for us to support Democrats who are on the ballot this November.” I agree. And it’s very very worrying.
I'm a Zionist centrist lifelong Democrat who finds it increasingly difficult to take Dersh seriously after the past few years of his antics and hyperbole. This line from "Lieberman's last words" really jumped out at me: "Pro-Israel voters have alternatives to simply staying home." Really? That's certainly not true in the Presidential election: no matter how strongly I support Israel, I support the rule of law in the US more, and will vote for Joe Biden (a decent man who has greatly supported Israel) over Trump. If Dersh (or Lieberman assuming this is truly Lieberman's work product) is talking about down ballot Senate or House elections, then it depends who the candidates are and what the totality of their positions are. I'm a Zionist Democrat American Jew but I don't like Dersh or Lieberman telling me how to vote any more than I like Trump telling me I'm a disloyal Jew for being a Democrat.
Who’s telling you how to vote? Personally, there is no reason why the White House can’t get his rhetoric right. Not doing so is costing him. You may be happy with it. But I’m not. This is costing him.
No. Dersh isn't a credible source for anything. In fact, he even said that statement wasn't given to Biden but "edited" before he died. Therefore, it can't be confirmed nor relied upon as fact.
I believe Dersh when he says letter was in the works. Though we’ll never know if Joe L would have sent it or not. That’s not the point. The sentiment is completely credible. I know the type of Jewish Democrats it’s talking about. I feel the frustration. Since February, the WH messaging and optics completely changed. It feels like whiplash. I’ve said it here in other comments and on my social media. President Biden needs to take it more seriously. I hope he makes the messaging changes. Bc he needs the support.
I wrote ‘final’ bc he died. I didn’t mean it in the ultimatum sense. That’s on me. Jews are always very active and invested politically: voice, vote, pocket book… The wellspring of support that Biden had in October has evaporated. The motivation is gone. No good polls have been done yet to confirm this.
Thank you for pointing out the momentum, p, of this vessel. The force, f, required to resist this momentum is exponential, f=1/2mv². V² of 2mph is 4. V² of 9 mph is 81.
Technically the 1/2mv^2 is the kinetic energy not the force. In simplistic terms the force is the rate of change of work which is essentially the change in mechanical energy.
I watched the bridge collapse less than a half hour after it happened. We had a whole lot less info then, nothing yet about the critical Mayday, it was being reported as a mass casualty event. I remembered praying that it wasn't a terrorist attack. I lit up my altar and prayed for Baltimore until I was able to finally go to sleep.
My ongoing anger at the right wing media universe is really fed by my bafflement. Dead Americans, giant disaster, considerable economic damage- obviously it's cause of DEI. Obviously it's got something to do with the border. Like, what the actual fuck are these ghouls talking about? I don't even understand the conspiracy theories! Laura Ingraham being like "people think the Biden admin isn't telling us everything!" Yes, because you're sitting there just making stuff up less than 24h after the accident, when the main priority is still search and rescue!
What does a cargo ship in Baltimore have to do with the border? What does an international shipping conglomerate (who, oh look, recently got sanctioned by Feds- not for hiring too many minorities, but for silencing whistleblowers) have to do with DEI? Is it the bridge? In the 30 times I watched the videos that night, bridge construction didn't really cross my mind. Cargo ships are huge and extremely heavy, it crashed right into one of the main supports. Seriously, what is wrong with these lazy propagandists?
"What do you think happened?"
"I'm a raging bigot, let me tell you all about it!"
Joe Lieberman liked to invoke Reagan by claiming he didn't leave the Democratic Party, etc. But that's just not true. When the primary voters of CT chose Ned Lamont over Lieberman, Lieberman was the one who wouldn't graciously concede and instead ran as an independent.
After Al Gore made the historic choice to pick Joe Lieberman as his VP, breaking another barrier in the upper reaches of our politics, religion, he turned up at the republican national convention 8 years later - refusing to support an equally historic candidate in Barack Obama.
I know many people here think Joe Lieberman hung the moon, but I see him as a flawed man who let his ego, self-righteousness and sanctimony get in his way - to the point where he was flirting with a spoiler, third-party candidacy with the No Labels crowd at a time of maximum peril for our democracy and the rule of law as embodied by a third Trump run for the White House.
I agree. Over the years I became much less enamored of Lieberman. His support of the Iraq War (which ended up, predictably, strengthening Iran and undercut the argument that some progressives made that the Iraq War was some plot by pro-Israel forces) really soured me on Lieberman, and his flirtation with No Labels was despicable. His hubris and egomania drove him to stay in "the game" far too long.
Re: John Eastman. Now for a Jack Smith indictment along with indictments of Ginni Thomas and Clarence Thomas, her "friend," who absolutely was complicit in the fraudulent electors scheme.
Thanks Bill. I remember watching tv that morning in 2000, specifically seeing Hadassah call him "My Joey", and wondering if that could be possible. I got a little farklempt reading this.
Appreciate you pointing out that sometimes horrible but wildly rare man made accidents happen, and it isn’t necessarily anyone’s fault or something you can prevent (at least, not without spending an amount of money possibly disproportionate to the likelihood).
@JVL I had a very hard time squaring your praise for Lieberman with his latter years. I share your appreciation for his past. Yet, I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation about his true values as he aged.
Far from the nice guy shtick he portrayed, Lieberman acted like a naive misguided fool at best and a petty anti (fill in the blank) at worst. He stuck me as a slow burn bomb trying to destroy everything he created, all with a smile and for a completely unknown reason other than to be perceived as being “fair”.
Examples of this include:
1) Threatening censorship of music for subjectively “explicit” lyrics (despite his experience helping to register disenfranchised African-Americans register to vote and exercise their Constitutional rights).
2) Supporting the invasion of Iraq (but somehow a victim when the opponents’ points against invasion were actually in line as feared).
3) Supporting McCain and speaking on his behalf in 2008 against Obama for …
4) Singlehandedly blocking a public option for the ACA in defense of CT’s insurance industry, all while masquerading as being principled.
5) Sponsoring No Labels because both the Dems and GOP are equally bad?
6) Recommending a RICO suit against JVL et al because … they don’t like an organized political party fighting back?
@JVL, your show with Mona was stunningly out of character. You gave Lieberman as many excuses as a MAGA supporter does Trump when he says and does what he means.
I was very disappointed with your observations and comments and thought they completely missed the mark.
Totally agree. Mona was an Iraq War cheerleader from the jump and for years afterward, so no surprise there. I expected better from JVL. Lieberman devolved from a decent Senator to a narcissistic old coot who thought anyone who disagreed with him was not only wrong but needed to be investigated (i.e., the No Labels star turn).
God's speed Senator Lieberman. May his memory be a blessing.
Thank you for this tribute.
I fundamentally disagree seeing the damage he did in his later years.
Stop giving him a pass just because he smiled!
I also have enormous admiration for senator Lieberman, but I was disappointed he was working with No Labels. JVL — your writings about the late Senator were heartwarming. I’d like to think the good Senator would say — ya know, I might be fallible.
JVL you are a “Mensch.”
Seriously?
Well said Bill, a lovely expression of a much admired public servant.
Admired?
What a lovely tribute to Joe Lieberman.
I'm sorry for his family.
Otherwise, good riddance.
As a disabled vet, I watched him and Graham leech off John McCain and pretend they served...and Graham's cushy air force job was never service or risk.
McCain failed to teach Lieberman country first. I'm sorry for that. Lieberman was always about himself, not the rest of us.
Spare us the encomium.
Completely agree
I believe an artificial island in front of the bridge piling would have prevented this accident. I say that based on what a pilot in Savannah Georgia said yesterday. He was asked if a similar accident could destroy the bridge in Savannah. He said no, because the piling is far from the navigation channel. It is in such shallow water that if a ship went out of control and headed toward it, before it struck the piling "it would run aground." Apparently he believes running aground would stop even a large ship abruptly. It is not going to skid along for some distance before whacking into the piling. Of course the ship would be severely damaged.
Engineers can work out how big a triangular island of rocks and sand would have to be in order to stop the largest container ship. I think it would be reasonably small, because I have seen such islands in front of other bridges.
The channel is 50 feet deep there, so it would not be a huge undertaking.
Pretty sure Lieberman was picked for VP because he made negative comments about Bill Clinton.
There really needs to be some revision of the FEC rules on campaign funds used for legal fees for corruption charges. Perhaps just a rule that if the person LOSES and is adjudged corrupt he has to pay back the funds from his personal funds?
I'm curious--does anyone know if Trump used campaign funds for E Jean Carroll and the Letitia James suits? Neither of those seems to be within the FEC rules.
Sen. Joe Lieberman’s final warning to President Biden: “If you abandon Israel in order to garner the support of anti-Israel extremists within the Democratic Party, it will be difficult for us to support Democrats who are on the ballot this November.” I agree. And it’s very very worrying.
Biden has no intention of abandoning Israel. I also doubt Lieberman said this---do you have a link to a legitimate site?
https://open.substack.com/pub/dersh/p/joe-liebermans-last-words-on-israel?r=9r1w6&utm_medium=ios yes it was an Alan Dershowitz post this morning. I believe it. Bc I live it. I know the kinds of democrats he talking about
I'm a Zionist centrist lifelong Democrat who finds it increasingly difficult to take Dersh seriously after the past few years of his antics and hyperbole. This line from "Lieberman's last words" really jumped out at me: "Pro-Israel voters have alternatives to simply staying home." Really? That's certainly not true in the Presidential election: no matter how strongly I support Israel, I support the rule of law in the US more, and will vote for Joe Biden (a decent man who has greatly supported Israel) over Trump. If Dersh (or Lieberman assuming this is truly Lieberman's work product) is talking about down ballot Senate or House elections, then it depends who the candidates are and what the totality of their positions are. I'm a Zionist Democrat American Jew but I don't like Dersh or Lieberman telling me how to vote any more than I like Trump telling me I'm a disloyal Jew for being a Democrat.
Who’s telling you how to vote? Personally, there is no reason why the White House can’t get his rhetoric right. Not doing so is costing him. You may be happy with it. But I’m not. This is costing him.
Dersh and Trump both play the Jewish card to tell Jews how to vote.
No. Dersh isn't a credible source for anything. In fact, he even said that statement wasn't given to Biden but "edited" before he died. Therefore, it can't be confirmed nor relied upon as fact.
I believe Dersh when he says letter was in the works. Though we’ll never know if Joe L would have sent it or not. That’s not the point. The sentiment is completely credible. I know the type of Jewish Democrats it’s talking about. I feel the frustration. Since February, the WH messaging and optics completely changed. It feels like whiplash. I’ve said it here in other comments and on my social media. President Biden needs to take it more seriously. I hope he makes the messaging changes. Bc he needs the support.
You said "Lieberman's final warning to Biden" implying he stated this to Biden directly. He didn't. And Dersh isn't credible.
I wrote ‘final’ bc he died. I didn’t mean it in the ultimatum sense. That’s on me. Jews are always very active and invested politically: voice, vote, pocket book… The wellspring of support that Biden had in October has evaporated. The motivation is gone. No good polls have been done yet to confirm this.
Biden didn't abandon Israel.
Perhaps Abandonment is too strong a word.
Thank you for pointing out the momentum, p, of this vessel. The force, f, required to resist this momentum is exponential, f=1/2mv². V² of 2mph is 4. V² of 9 mph is 81.
Technically the 1/2mv^2 is the kinetic energy not the force. In simplistic terms the force is the rate of change of work which is essentially the change in mechanical energy.
I watched the bridge collapse less than a half hour after it happened. We had a whole lot less info then, nothing yet about the critical Mayday, it was being reported as a mass casualty event. I remembered praying that it wasn't a terrorist attack. I lit up my altar and prayed for Baltimore until I was able to finally go to sleep.
My ongoing anger at the right wing media universe is really fed by my bafflement. Dead Americans, giant disaster, considerable economic damage- obviously it's cause of DEI. Obviously it's got something to do with the border. Like, what the actual fuck are these ghouls talking about? I don't even understand the conspiracy theories! Laura Ingraham being like "people think the Biden admin isn't telling us everything!" Yes, because you're sitting there just making stuff up less than 24h after the accident, when the main priority is still search and rescue!
What does a cargo ship in Baltimore have to do with the border? What does an international shipping conglomerate (who, oh look, recently got sanctioned by Feds- not for hiring too many minorities, but for silencing whistleblowers) have to do with DEI? Is it the bridge? In the 30 times I watched the videos that night, bridge construction didn't really cross my mind. Cargo ships are huge and extremely heavy, it crashed right into one of the main supports. Seriously, what is wrong with these lazy propagandists?
"What do you think happened?"
"I'm a raging bigot, let me tell you all about it!"
???
Joe Lieberman liked to invoke Reagan by claiming he didn't leave the Democratic Party, etc. But that's just not true. When the primary voters of CT chose Ned Lamont over Lieberman, Lieberman was the one who wouldn't graciously concede and instead ran as an independent.
After Al Gore made the historic choice to pick Joe Lieberman as his VP, breaking another barrier in the upper reaches of our politics, religion, he turned up at the republican national convention 8 years later - refusing to support an equally historic candidate in Barack Obama.
I know many people here think Joe Lieberman hung the moon, but I see him as a flawed man who let his ego, self-righteousness and sanctimony get in his way - to the point where he was flirting with a spoiler, third-party candidacy with the No Labels crowd at a time of maximum peril for our democracy and the rule of law as embodied by a third Trump run for the White House.
I agree. Over the years I became much less enamored of Lieberman. His support of the Iraq War (which ended up, predictably, strengthening Iran and undercut the argument that some progressives made that the Iraq War was some plot by pro-Israel forces) really soured me on Lieberman, and his flirtation with No Labels was despicable. His hubris and egomania drove him to stay in "the game" far too long.
I've always liked Joe Lieberman, but there is a lot of merit to the points you raise.
I always wanted to like Joe Lieberman for some reason, but then he'd do something completely Joe Lieberman and leave me cold again.
Re: John Eastman. Now for a Jack Smith indictment along with indictments of Ginni Thomas and Clarence Thomas, her "friend," who absolutely was complicit in the fraudulent electors scheme.
Thanks Bill. I remember watching tv that morning in 2000, specifically seeing Hadassah call him "My Joey", and wondering if that could be possible. I got a little farklempt reading this.
z''l
Appreciate you pointing out that sometimes horrible but wildly rare man made accidents happen, and it isn’t necessarily anyone’s fault or something you can prevent (at least, not without spending an amount of money possibly disproportionate to the likelihood).