It is astounding to me, that a man such as you, a man with SUCH valor (four tours! A bronze medal for valor!) will lay it down for Netanyahu to piss on.
How dare you send American boys to fight and die for such a man, a man wanted for war crimes, for such a country, a country in the grips of a genocidal mania.
I have never been more proud of Israel. Anyone who believes in liberal democracy, the civilized world, the entire post-enlightment project ought to be proud as well. As they are doing in Gaza, and as they did in Lebanon, they are defending the values of the West against forces of evil and darkness. The Iranian Regime is a self-proclaimed genocidal regime that wishes to kill all Jews and their defenders. Same with Hamas. Same with Hezbollah. So sad that some in the West are still so utterly misinformed about this and spread the propaganda of Israel's enemies.
I have never voted for DJT. That noted, if we are going to claim that we are non-tribal, then we must acknowledge even a Trump led Admin gets things right from to time. The Obama Admin approach to Iran was an obvious mistake. The JCPOA was an obvious mistake. If DJT had not pulled out of it, Iran would be the precipice of a nuclear weapon today by having stayed WITHIN the guidelines of the JCPOA as even Obama admitted they would be at the end of the JCPOA. The bet the JCPOA made is that the Iranian Regime would lose their genocidal ambitions. That was a bad bet. The max pressure campaign in Trump 1.0 was clearly better than the Obama approach. However, when Biden (who I voted for) came into office, they rejected the max pressure campaign that had been working and dusted off the Obama approach attempting a reproshma with Iran. That again failed which in part led to Oct. 7 as Iran was able to further support its proxies
Now Israel has taken the bold and correct step to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon and using it to threaten Israel with a final Jewish genocide. The only folks who are unhappy are the ones who want to see the only Jewish state week and undermined by Iran’s genocidal ambitions and shame on those people for their moral failure.
It’s important to separate Israel’s head of state from its citizenry, just as Trump doesn’t represent all of the American people. But Israel is once again wandering in the desert. For almost 80 years, Israel has been a bastion of democracy in the Middle East with an agile and effective military, governing with wisdom and righteousness, but in recent years, its government has tainted its claims and become more like the regime that inspired its existence.
"It’s important to separate Israel’s head of state from its citizenry"
I disagree.
Trump may not represent ALL of the American people, but he represents the majority of those who bothered to vote.
And Netanyahu may not represent ALL of the Israeli people, but he is Israel's longest-serving Prime Minister, re-elected after re-election after re-election.
But if you want to know who the Israeli people are, here is some data:
You can either be for an Israeli state or against genocide in Gaza.
You cannot be both.
In practice, Zionism is the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. It always has been. The problem arises when some Palestinians refuse to be cleansed, then violence is required. And when limited violence does not succeed, genocidal violence is required.
And that is what we have seen since the 1890s. They won't change. They can't change, certainly not now when they are in the grips of a genocidal mania.
Trump has been elected twice. Netanyahu has been Prime Minister SIX times.
Hamas was elected once, nearly 20 years ago, and has since then governed un-democratically.
If you had asked the majority of Palestinians in Gaza if they would vote for Hamas on October 6, 2023, the answer would probably have been no.
But nobody did ask them. But Israel had been bombing them every day since the election of Hamas, though.
Whatever support Palestinians in Gaza have for Hamas is the same for any resistance group against horrendous tyranny, in this case, the tyranny of Israel.
But the same cannot be said for Trump and Netanyahu. The people of American and Israel were not suffering thousands killed every year by their captors.
Do you condemn the people of France for the French Resistance during World War 2? Do you condemn Jews, because of the Jewish uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto?
me too. It breaks my heart to see Israel become such a rogue country. The Israeli's are out of control in the West Bank as well. Its bad, Netanyahu is just pushing everything to far
Netanyahu is the leader. Just like Trump is the leader. I do blame Trump. He is the leader of this cult. Of course, that does not absolve his followers.
"Trump's charges and the legal basis for removing $7 billion or whatever is money from Harvard because he doesn't like them."
Every time Kristol or his guests talk about the horrors of the Trump Administration blocking dollars for Harvard for inappropriate purposes, I'm going to point out that Kristol did precisely the same.
"[Israel] ... I guess there was a 60,000 person pride celebration planned for Tel Aviv over the weekend before the war started, and of course, Iran is a country that hangs people who they deem to be homosexuals."
Just imagine the last thought of an Iranian homosexual, whose apartment block has been bombed by Israel, and family and neighbors killed: "thank GOD for Israel bombing us, because otherwise I might have been hanged by the regime!"
Let me tell you a dirty little secret of Mossad: they too know who is gay in Gaza, in the West Bank, in Iran, in all of the countries it bombs. It uses that knowledge to turn those people against their friends, families and countries, RELYING on the knowledge that those countries would kill them if they refused.
That's blackmail of the worst kind, and I put to you, just as bad as putting people to death because of their sexuality.
So, you don't get to wrap yourself in a rainbow flag, while using the rainbow flag to strangle gay people to do your bidding. You certainly don't get to justify a WILDLY illegal bombing of civilians because YOU allow Pride marches.
Let me tell you why we shouldn't bomb countries, even if they don't have LGBT protections:
A. Until a few years ago, we didn't either. In fact, it is likely, in the next few years, we won't again. Will it be ok for other countries to bomb us then?
B. If you bomb a country because they don't offer LGBT protections, then killing the gays along with the straights, is as bad as worse than anything the regime might have done.
C. If you bomb a country, kill it's population, then it can never change. Again, only a few years ago, we too had similar laws. But WE had the opportunity to grow, to change.
All of this is just pretext to commit genocide and wild violations of international law.
Rep Moulton (really good guy, obviously) says “once you’re number one it’s hard to displace you” - a propos China’s taking over that slot on the biomedical front - no, it’s not! Look how easily Trump and his gang of incompetents has already brought the US to the point of displacement - just a few months and that position is in serious danger.
"because I don't think there's any American who wants another war in the Middle East, we certainly don't want America to get bogged down in a war in the Middle East, should we be CALLED TO SUPPORT ISRAEL"
Called? Called by whom, Representative Moulton? Called by God? Called by AIPAC? Called by Netanyahu? Called by Trump? Who will "call" for the defense of Israel, that America must respond to? Must send its sons to fight and die for? Must spend its taxpayers' dollars to defend?
How about we make a deal: let's say the United States says NO to Israel: NO, you shall not go into Rafah, NO, you shall not go into Lebanon, NO, you shall not bomb Iran.
And then Israel does it anyway.
Under those circumstances, when Israel has gone against the wishes of the United States, but subsequently runs behind our skirts and begs us to protect them from the consequences of their own actions, we should say NO again ... but mean it.
No approval, no subsequent defense.
What do you say? Or are we just their dumb cat's paw to do with as they see fit?
Is preventing the return of the Israeli hostages to keep Netanyahu in power and maintain the ongoing genocide in Gaza SO much more important to you than American values and international humanitarian law?
When, if EVER, will you draw the line on Israel? Currently, Israel is in, count them, SEVEN DIFFERENT CONFLICTS. SEVEN!
If the answer is "never", then say it. Say unconditional, unlimited, unconstrained support for Israel, no matter what they do.
At least that would be honest.
At least we'd know that $88,416 can buy a US Congressman.
Just want to second this. Like Tim sometimes but much more so, Bill is much given to talking under his breath. Frustrates me no end, and I'm petty enough to think it's disrespectful to us. Bulwark has him bc he's got something to say, right? Gotta say, he's always struck me as someone who's always had the luxury of having very indulgent conversants. (And I'd be willing to bet there have been quite few who wouldn't be able to tell him what he'd just said.)
Congressman, Salem is my hometown. I now live in Southern Central MA where my representatives hide in their little safe spaces. I take pride in knowing that at least one of my hometowns is represented by such an amazing person. Thank you for putting your voice out there. What you have to say matters.
Wow! Seth Moulton is great. We need intelligent, educated, experienced, courageous articulate advocates for the right causes, with the knowledge required to set the right course. The Honorable Mr. Moulton fits the bill.
So how to we get rid of Hegseth? The recent article in The Atlantic (Playacting at SecDef) coupled with what I saw in clips of his congressional hearings this past week, tells me we’re in serious deep shit with this dunderhead in charge of the Pentagon. Will he accidentally fall out of a window, or are we just screwed with no end in sight?
Wow Bill what a show and what a guest! It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant I am. How can I not know this Congressman? Rep. Moulton is an articulate, intelligent and authentic a person you'd ever what to meet and talk with. His insights in a plethora of areas is breathtaking. He is a voice of reason in an otherwise all too self centered world. I feel bad for him. He goes home after a rough day on the hill and just must beat his head against the wall after having had to deal with the incompetent fools on the other side. After hearing his thoughts on Hegseth, I became even more outraged than I was and that was off the charts. Congressman, I only wish you put the blame where it truly belongs. You know, the Republican Senators that confirmed this incompetent clown. The remarkable fact that there was some legitimate questions about Harvard was noted. Bill, you get your usual 5 stars for asking all the right questions and then letting your guests enlighten us. Bravo!
Thank you for having these conversations.
It is astounding to me, that a man such as you, a man with SUCH valor (four tours! A bronze medal for valor!) will lay it down for Netanyahu to piss on.
How dare you send American boys to fight and die for such a man, a man wanted for war crimes, for such a country, a country in the grips of a genocidal mania.
https://parrhizzia1.substack.com/p/new-poll-israel-is-a-sick-society?r=3hh94p
How cheaply your valor is bought! $88,416? My god. What a terrible tragedy and waste.
I have never been more proud of Israel. Anyone who believes in liberal democracy, the civilized world, the entire post-enlightment project ought to be proud as well. As they are doing in Gaza, and as they did in Lebanon, they are defending the values of the West against forces of evil and darkness. The Iranian Regime is a self-proclaimed genocidal regime that wishes to kill all Jews and their defenders. Same with Hamas. Same with Hezbollah. So sad that some in the West are still so utterly misinformed about this and spread the propaganda of Israel's enemies.
I have never voted for DJT. That noted, if we are going to claim that we are non-tribal, then we must acknowledge even a Trump led Admin gets things right from to time. The Obama Admin approach to Iran was an obvious mistake. The JCPOA was an obvious mistake. If DJT had not pulled out of it, Iran would be the precipice of a nuclear weapon today by having stayed WITHIN the guidelines of the JCPOA as even Obama admitted they would be at the end of the JCPOA. The bet the JCPOA made is that the Iranian Regime would lose their genocidal ambitions. That was a bad bet. The max pressure campaign in Trump 1.0 was clearly better than the Obama approach. However, when Biden (who I voted for) came into office, they rejected the max pressure campaign that had been working and dusted off the Obama approach attempting a reproshma with Iran. That again failed which in part led to Oct. 7 as Iran was able to further support its proxies
Now Israel has taken the bold and correct step to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon and using it to threaten Israel with a final Jewish genocide. The only folks who are unhappy are the ones who want to see the only Jewish state week and undermined by Iran’s genocidal ambitions and shame on those people for their moral failure.
It’s important to separate Israel’s head of state from its citizenry, just as Trump doesn’t represent all of the American people. But Israel is once again wandering in the desert. For almost 80 years, Israel has been a bastion of democracy in the Middle East with an agile and effective military, governing with wisdom and righteousness, but in recent years, its government has tainted its claims and become more like the regime that inspired its existence.
"It’s important to separate Israel’s head of state from its citizenry"
I disagree.
Trump may not represent ALL of the American people, but he represents the majority of those who bothered to vote.
And Netanyahu may not represent ALL of the Israeli people, but he is Israel's longest-serving Prime Minister, re-elected after re-election after re-election.
But if you want to know who the Israeli people are, here is some data:
https://parrhizzia1.substack.com/p/new-poll-israel-is-a-sick-society?r=3hh94p
Also, FWIW, I don't hate Netanyahu, just as I don't hate Trump:
https://parrhizzia1.substack.com/p/why-i-dont-hate-netanyahu?r=3hh94p
In short, Netanyahu is a product of violent Zionism, not its cause.
It’s obvious that you know a lot more about this subject than I.
If you wish to know more, there is more to know.
https://substack.com/@mehdirhasan/note/p-166013602?r=3hh94p&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
Thank you. Seth Moulton is a truth-teller.
I am for an Israeli state. I am against genocide in Gaza.
These are incompatible positions.
You can either be for an Israeli state or against genocide in Gaza.
You cannot be both.
In practice, Zionism is the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. It always has been. The problem arises when some Palestinians refuse to be cleansed, then violence is required. And when limited violence does not succeed, genocidal violence is required.
And that is what we have seen since the 1890s. They won't change. They can't change, certainly not now when they are in the grips of a genocidal mania.
That is akin to saying all Palestinians are Hamas.
Kinda? Sorta? Not really.
Trump has been elected twice. Netanyahu has been Prime Minister SIX times.
Hamas was elected once, nearly 20 years ago, and has since then governed un-democratically.
If you had asked the majority of Palestinians in Gaza if they would vote for Hamas on October 6, 2023, the answer would probably have been no.
But nobody did ask them. But Israel had been bombing them every day since the election of Hamas, though.
Whatever support Palestinians in Gaza have for Hamas is the same for any resistance group against horrendous tyranny, in this case, the tyranny of Israel.
But the same cannot be said for Trump and Netanyahu. The people of American and Israel were not suffering thousands killed every year by their captors.
Do you condemn the people of France for the French Resistance during World War 2? Do you condemn Jews, because of the Jewish uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto?
me too. It breaks my heart to see Israel become such a rogue country. The Israeli's are out of control in the West Bank as well. Its bad, Netanyahu is just pushing everything to far
The problem is NOT Netanyahu. Netanyahu is a product of Zionism, not its source.
https://parrhizzia1.substack.com/p/why-i-dont-hate-netanyahu?r=3hh94p
The problem is Zionism.
https://parrhizzia1.substack.com/p/new-poll-israel-is-a-sick-society?r=3hh94p
Netanyahu is the leader. Just like Trump is the leader. I do blame Trump. He is the leader of this cult. Of course, that does not absolve his followers.
When “smart, thoughtful and telling the truth” doesn’t matter, and dumb, thoughtlessness and lies are listened to, where on earth do you go?
"Trump's charges and the legal basis for removing $7 billion or whatever is money from Harvard because he doesn't like them."
Every time Kristol or his guests talk about the horrors of the Trump Administration blocking dollars for Harvard for inappropriate purposes, I'm going to point out that Kristol did precisely the same.
Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy.
https://parrhizzia1.substack.com/p/what-did-you-do-bill-kristol?r=3hh94p
"[Israel] ... I guess there was a 60,000 person pride celebration planned for Tel Aviv over the weekend before the war started, and of course, Iran is a country that hangs people who they deem to be homosexuals."
Just imagine the last thought of an Iranian homosexual, whose apartment block has been bombed by Israel, and family and neighbors killed: "thank GOD for Israel bombing us, because otherwise I might have been hanged by the regime!"
Let me tell you a dirty little secret of Mossad: they too know who is gay in Gaza, in the West Bank, in Iran, in all of the countries it bombs. It uses that knowledge to turn those people against their friends, families and countries, RELYING on the knowledge that those countries would kill them if they refused.
That's blackmail of the worst kind, and I put to you, just as bad as putting people to death because of their sexuality.
So, you don't get to wrap yourself in a rainbow flag, while using the rainbow flag to strangle gay people to do your bidding. You certainly don't get to justify a WILDLY illegal bombing of civilians because YOU allow Pride marches.
Let me tell you why we shouldn't bomb countries, even if they don't have LGBT protections:
A. Until a few years ago, we didn't either. In fact, it is likely, in the next few years, we won't again. Will it be ok for other countries to bomb us then?
B. If you bomb a country because they don't offer LGBT protections, then killing the gays along with the straights, is as bad as worse than anything the regime might have done.
C. If you bomb a country, kill it's population, then it can never change. Again, only a few years ago, we too had similar laws. But WE had the opportunity to grow, to change.
All of this is just pretext to commit genocide and wild violations of international law.
Rep Moulton (really good guy, obviously) says “once you’re number one it’s hard to displace you” - a propos China’s taking over that slot on the biomedical front - no, it’s not! Look how easily Trump and his gang of incompetents has already brought the US to the point of displacement - just a few months and that position is in serious danger.
"because I don't think there's any American who wants another war in the Middle East, we certainly don't want America to get bogged down in a war in the Middle East, should we be CALLED TO SUPPORT ISRAEL"
Called? Called by whom, Representative Moulton? Called by God? Called by AIPAC? Called by Netanyahu? Called by Trump? Who will "call" for the defense of Israel, that America must respond to? Must send its sons to fight and die for? Must spend its taxpayers' dollars to defend?
How about we make a deal: let's say the United States says NO to Israel: NO, you shall not go into Rafah, NO, you shall not go into Lebanon, NO, you shall not bomb Iran.
And then Israel does it anyway.
Under those circumstances, when Israel has gone against the wishes of the United States, but subsequently runs behind our skirts and begs us to protect them from the consequences of their own actions, we should say NO again ... but mean it.
No approval, no subsequent defense.
What do you say? Or are we just their dumb cat's paw to do with as they see fit?
Is preventing the return of the Israeli hostages to keep Netanyahu in power and maintain the ongoing genocide in Gaza SO much more important to you than American values and international humanitarian law?
When, if EVER, will you draw the line on Israel? Currently, Israel is in, count them, SEVEN DIFFERENT CONFLICTS. SEVEN!
If the answer is "never", then say it. Say unconditional, unlimited, unconstrained support for Israel, no matter what they do.
At least that would be honest.
At least we'd know that $88,416 can buy a US Congressman.
Bill, Please try not to mumble. You are very hard to hear.
Just want to second this. Like Tim sometimes but much more so, Bill is much given to talking under his breath. Frustrates me no end, and I'm petty enough to think it's disrespectful to us. Bulwark has him bc he's got something to say, right? Gotta say, he's always struck me as someone who's always had the luxury of having very indulgent conversants. (And I'd be willing to bet there have been quite few who wouldn't be able to tell him what he'd just said.)
Congressman, Salem is my hometown. I now live in Southern Central MA where my representatives hide in their little safe spaces. I take pride in knowing that at least one of my hometowns is represented by such an amazing person. Thank you for putting your voice out there. What you have to say matters.
Moulton doesn't represent you.
He represents Israel.
Really. Thank you for that. I will make time to understand that better.
Clarification. I meant to say my state reps hide. My federal rep Jim McGovern is wonderful.
Think of what could have been done with that $50 million spent yesterday on Trump’s parade
Could’ve taken care of veterans
Children
People needing healthcare
Wow! Seth Moulton is great. We need intelligent, educated, experienced, courageous articulate advocates for the right causes, with the knowledge required to set the right course. The Honorable Mr. Moulton fits the bill.
So how to we get rid of Hegseth? The recent article in The Atlantic (Playacting at SecDef) coupled with what I saw in clips of his congressional hearings this past week, tells me we’re in serious deep shit with this dunderhead in charge of the Pentagon. Will he accidentally fall out of a window, or are we just screwed with no end in sight?
Wow Bill what a show and what a guest! It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant I am. How can I not know this Congressman? Rep. Moulton is an articulate, intelligent and authentic a person you'd ever what to meet and talk with. His insights in a plethora of areas is breathtaking. He is a voice of reason in an otherwise all too self centered world. I feel bad for him. He goes home after a rough day on the hill and just must beat his head against the wall after having had to deal with the incompetent fools on the other side. After hearing his thoughts on Hegseth, I became even more outraged than I was and that was off the charts. Congressman, I only wish you put the blame where it truly belongs. You know, the Republican Senators that confirmed this incompetent clown. The remarkable fact that there was some legitimate questions about Harvard was noted. Bill, you get your usual 5 stars for asking all the right questions and then letting your guests enlighten us. Bravo!