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Robert Jaffee's avatar

Actually, I mostly agree with you on the facts; you know your history. As for Shamir and Sharon, I have no love for either of the two. I consider them fanatics.

And I’m very familiar with the savageness of the slaughter at Shatila and Sabra. It just goes to show you; even in today’s world, all sides in the Middle East still engage in Old Testament justice.

And Let’s not forget, Munich was only in the distant past when those acts by the Christian militia’s took place, and the hatred on both sides was raw and significant, to say the least.

I know you read my posts, but I consider myself a humanist before anything else. The suffering of the Palestinians for decades cannot be denied. However, part of the issue is leadership of the Palestinians, or lack thereof. Additionally, Israeli’s bought into the Israeli version of Trump, before Trump became Trump.

That said, I think we can both agree that Hamas’s goals are a pipe-dream at best, and suicidal at worst. I don’t mind the college students protesting, I truly feel for the innocents being killed as part of Israel’s response, and like you, call for a ceasefire.

However, the slogan “from the river to the sea” is a dog whistle, the same way white supremacists use “woke,” “political correctness,” and 1776 Commission as dog whistles to their base. Or Trump’s use of “stand back and stand by,” as a call to arms to white nationalists in this country.

That said, what can we do? Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself. Every country does the same and commits the same crimes as Israel.

We killed over 500,000 innocent civilians in Iraq, bombing neighborhoods. The US, British and French bombed Libya in 2011, killing innocent civilians. The Saudi’s and UAE in Yemen have done far more damage than Israel is doing now. Additionally, the Turks in Syria have been bombing and killing the Kurds. Not to mention, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which no one talks about anymore, but are tragedies and slaughters taking place as we comment here.

I personally have equal disdain for Hamas and the Israeli settlers. I have family in Israel and they feel the same. Some even live in neighborhoods with Israeli Palestinians and they are friends.

So I understand both points of view, but history is the past. The Israeli’s and Palestinians need to forget the past and live in the present; otherwise, nothing changes. There may be an opportunity for a two state solution once this invasion is over. Small, but still a viable possibility.

I truly hope cooler heads will prevail, but it’s the Middle East, and if Afghanistan is a place where superpowers go to die, then the road to hell starts and ends in Jerusalem!

FYI: I respect your positions and your comments, and look forward to future discussions...:)

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Nov 7, 2023
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Robert Jaffee's avatar

We mostly agree. I think the disagreement is on the solutions. I’m actually at a loss...:)

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