Peter Meijer is an example of why I've lost patience trying to understand "normie" Republicans and their motivations. Shit, Brett Stephens is at least willing to drop acid in order to bring himself to vote for Biden, Why can't we find more courage like that?
No such animal as a normie Republican on the Federal level.
There are a few on the state level.
One has to go to the still existing local "thinking constiuent" level to find elected officials who actual care about governing instead of feathering their own political bed.
I was just thinking this. I can't begin to comprehend the logic of someone who would vote to impeach someone for insurrection only to then publicly state they would still support the insurrectionist. How do we even begin to overcome this? Are we just entering a post-ethical era? That should work out well, almost as well as our post-racial era is working out
I heard him on POTUS yesterday and was surprised how rational he sounded on basic topics being discussed until he rolled out the typical talking points about Uncle Joe not caring about China as a potential enemy.
It seems as if they realize that their potential voters will simply listen to their lies without question.
And even those are getting to be fewer and farther between. Here in my little mostly-red corner of Virginia, we have our state delegate Marie March, once photographed with her husband, kids, and all their guns, and her acolyte Johanna Hicks on the local allegedly non-partisan town council who does nothing but cause trouble and then play the victim. Former head of the local county republicans (who also owns the local t**** store, natch) stepped down because the group wasn't far enough right for her liking.
Insite of being in the heart of Trump country Indiana, with the similarly-minded Lying Sack of Rokita as the Atty General recently censured by our State Supreme Court for his attack on the doctor who performed the abortion of the 13-year old rape victim from Ohio, we have many normie Republicans and normie Democrats in greater Lafayette.
Governmentally speaking, it's like living in a time warp. It's sometimes difficult to determine party by voting patterns.
There is one lunatic book-banner on the Lafayette School Board and a die-hard lefty on the West Lafayette School Board, but otherwise we live in the state of normalcy, where pols actually work for the benefit of the greater community good.
Yeah, that alleviated the little part of me that felt bad that Dems screwed him by backing his loony primary opponent. Given Meijer’s position here he’s going to deserve the loss he gets in this primary, too.
I’ve wondered if a reason why Republicans like Meijer say they support trump is to keep the MAGA crazies from attacking his family and campaign staff. But, I’m probably trying to find a rational explanation for an irrational situation, which just leads to SMDH.
That's probably the case. It is also the case that the more the 'normies' bend the knee to Trump, the more powerful he becomes. It NEVER gets easier to face down a would-be tyrant. He's afraid of the mob now? Regardless of the outcome of 2024, Trump's cult will have as its only focus exacting revenge. Nobody will be safe.
Checking in to see where The Bulwark crow buffet will be served for all of those people that ended up on the fainting couch as Dems played hardball to take out "Good Republican" Peter Meijer.
They didn't even play hardball; they said completely honest things about how his *primary opponent* was insane, and it played with his voters. That's barely wiffle ball. The Republican primary constituency is just *that* crazy, but rather than coming to terms with that, they'd rather blame Democrats.
Remember they all voted for Johnson after faking weeks of performance art playing the disorganized party. They new exactly who was going to become apeaker, they just had to tire everyone out before the ax fell.
No one who has been following Trump's behavior over the past eight years can claim to be surprised by his courtroom antics. Whether it is intentional or simply him giving in to his primal urges is open to debate. But unquestionably it is Trump engaging in a sort of (free, of course) publicity campaign for his person and his brand. The Professional Victim plays the victim card in as high profile of a manner as he can, slathered in overly generous dollops of self-pity and grievance to make it more appetizing to his followers. Because he knows that this is the fuel that fires his rocket. As long as he can keep them wallowing in grievance and victimization, they are able to look past facts as if a secondary (or worse) priority in the evaluation of Trump as both a politician and as a person. How convenient for them. How pathetic for the rest of us.
No less pathetic is how familiar all this is, inverted. A generation ago the political right expressed its frustration and outrage about the far left engaging in political correctness and grievance-based agendas. It was what enabled Rush Limbaugh to become more than just Jeff Christie, a Pittsburgh radio DJ spinning musical hits and misses. It also gave us far more of Ted Nugent than we ever needed to hear outside of the musical realm and Newt Gingrich going from a bank-bench legislator to Speaker. Yet here they are now, wallowing in it all as if hogs in filth, gleefully playing those cards for all they are worth. As others before have said, there's little new in the developments of our world so much as there are variations on existing themes, reinterpreted for the benefit of the (bad) actors who both seize and hold the stage.
"No one who has been following Trump's behavior over the past eight years can claim to be surprised by his courtroom antics."
The only thing I'd change is the 8 years part. How long did we put up with the Obama "birther" nonsense (a handy tool for thinly disguised racism)? I like to go all the way back to Trump's pissing match with Graydon Carter (Spy Magazine). Graydon Carter coined the term "short fingered vulgarian" in Spy and Trump sent him pictures of his hands for decades afterwards.
But it doesn't matter since almost any Trump supporter views him as the businessman hero of "The Apprentice." I'm hoping there is a special place in Hell for Mark Burnett.
Well see that's it. People see tv as real. If you play a smart savy business person on TV, that's who the majority of TV addicts will believe. How often have actors who played doctors on TV get gigs "playing" who recommend "health" products.
Businessman hero of The Apprentice - how right you are. How many people tuned in to hear the great and powerful Oz cue up the ominous music to build suspense around the plight of some hapless idiot fake employee who wanted to be on television, all leading to the completely predictable conclusion... "You're Fired".
Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?
How sad for our country that tens of millions can't tell the difference?
If you're from NYC it's more like 40 years. He is and always was a Putz. He couldn't have gotten elected street sweeper to follow the Ringling Brothers elephant walk if he ran unopposed.
As a warning to the nation back in 2017, Dr. Brandy X. Lee and other psychiatrists/psychologists published "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump", documenting his psychopathic narcissism and forecasting where it would lead. Trump has been acting according to script ever since. That's what makes Trump so boring. Once you take his psychopathy into account, he is entirely predictable, including his narcissistic rage - which he will unleash upon the world if he is ever again given the power of the presidency.
What's scary is how many people buy into this persona. There are tyrants and mass murderers who have had millions follow them off a cliff. There just seem to be a significant segment of the human population who have no defense against a grifter's lies because they cannot think critically.
The GOP is not only personally, politically and morally bankrupt from top to bottom, it is certifiably insane. Trump should be impeached, but I am all in for Trump 2024. Hello??? And these are the “normies”???
Unfortunately these “leaders” have all gone mad because their voters have. I fear we may get what we deserve, the most repressive, dictatorial autocracy imaginable, and soon. I never thought I would see this, but it could well be coming. The “right” and beyond the “right” has lost its mind. We are not the crazies, right Charlie?
Plus, Trump continues to claim that Mar a Lago, for which he pays property taxes on $18 million, is worth $1500 million--$1.5 billion. Is it possible to invoke the 25 Amendment prophylactically?
It would be justice right after he pays the state of NY what he owes. I am a New Yorker and pay my full taxes annually and it's time Trump paid his fair share!!!
Now that you have established that, you can take loans off that value, buy some more properties, rinse and repeat. Before long you can launch a fake airline, a fake university, bankrupt a couple casinos and launch an incredibly stupid fake TV show where millions of people will tune in to hear you say "You're fired". Next stop the presidency.
Then, when you get there can you make it all just stop??
Well, to give Trump his due, maybe he was including the value of the classified documents that were held at Mar-A-Lago as part of its overall valuation?
Meijer’s illogical support for Trump after voting to impeach is as baffling as Adam Kinzinger’s admission that he DIDN’T vote for Trump in 2016, but he DID vote for Trump in 2020. At least he’s on a perpetual mea culpa tour. But I’ll never understand.
Polls are not a science; they are subjective and flawed. It is like the stock market. People can lose their socks by predictions. I remember that when Bush came to power, I was working for NASA. We had this system toward retirement. We could put this money in a Thrift Savings Account, and we could choose to put it in government bonds or the stock market. I don't know why, but as soon as Bush was elected, I took it all out of the stock market and put it in government bonds. Many people lost their savings when they put them in the stock market. My point? Polls are as unreliable as the stock market. Just VOTE! And Edward, I have the same question for Charlie, what is his end game? Why is he creating despair? Is it that Charlie as a conservative who used to be a staunched Reagan Republican sees his party go to shit and he does not know what hit him? So, let us feel sorry for him, he is after all a human being and worthy of our respect. I don't envy him, though, I am glad that I never voted Republican, I always loved Democracy too much, especially as a woman who wants her right to choose.
Great comment about the interpretive nature of polls.
I think Charlie hasn't fundamentally changed with reflect to his belief structures. He is still conservative and (I suspect) deeply Christian. But that has not closed his eyes to the ways in which folks have been hypnotized by TFG.
I give him much credit for having the courage to simply stand up and say no.
I wonder what would happen if Trump was court-ordered to have a psychiatric evaluation? His testimony sounds like it was the raving of a madman (Yes, I know this is how Trump has been talking for quite a while now). Instead of just in public, he has now talked like this in a legal setting. Maybe Engeron could help Trump survive this fraud case by finding him insane.
I'm actually thankful that Engeron kept his cool yesterday and let Trump be Trump. This reduces the risk of his ruling being overturned on appeal. And it also forces Trump's supporters to defend the behavior.
As far as being forced to have a psych evaluation, a normal family would do that, but the Trump family is dysfunctional and has been for over a century.
I agree with that. It was a nice try for the usual type of control. Maybe Engeron needed to do that, then to allow Trump to just spew, with respect to an appeal. Honestly, letting Trump just talk is the best way to get him to admit all kinds of stuff, which per reports, he did. Engeron can simply use Trump's words against him. It will make for delightful reading of the verdict and judgement.
I was in awe yesterday when Trump insisted that his net worth was well over $2.5B and he confidently told the DA they had no case. And when you read the footnotes in his financial statements, he's basically telling the reader that he's full of shit. Frankly, I don't know what'll be more satisfying to watch: losing Trump Tower, or Mar-a-Lago.
He was never welcomed into NYC high society. He was always, and correctly, regarded as uncouth. I think it was Tim O'Brien who recently called the Trump family unsophisticated and ignorant. Florida has devolved into a melting pot of goons, mooks, and money launderers. So I think you're right: if Trump loses Mar-a-Lago, that'll be a lot of fun to watch. Imagine believing that shithole is worth $1.5B.
We were watching "The Devil's Advocate" last week and Trump's penthouse in that movie is prominently featured as the home of Craig T. Nelson's character. The décor is abhorrent.
I know, right? He's all proud of himself for saying he's worth over $2.5B, and he can't admit if he had done what you just said, he'd have been better off.
Engeron and Chutkan have both asked his lawyers if Trump really understands their court orders and if he is capable of complying with them. That's pretty pointed.
I think that Trump is showing that he cannot. Whether they want to consider this to be a shrewd calculation or evidence of a decompensating mind is another thing. Problem is that it is in the (inappropriate) interest of Trump's entourage to encourage this behavior. They have become Trump in that they will use him for their self-interest even if it to Trump's detriment. The snake eating itself.
It is so fustrating to see this judge practically having to beg. Like you are a judge!! True real life isn't a perry Mason or L&O episode but sweet goodness. if this was another defendent he would be at least fined, held in contempt, put on house arrest something!! The helplessness those the are supposed to be in positions of authority is beyond fustrating. I know that there 2 systems of justice but dang....Trump could have taken a dump of the court floor and it would have been "can we get some one to have a toliet next to the stand"!!
Everything TFG does is performative. Remember his classmates from that military school said he would never admit he was wrong even with the evidence there for all to see. He’s been performing as a human being with a soul his entire life. He knows he is empty inside, maybe the only thing he knows about himself. ! It won’t end well for him but he doesn’t care, he can’t stop.
Patrick, my own belief is Trump's sense of self is incredibly fragile. This is why we see him act out the way he does. He believes that because he's him, he should be able to do anything he wants. His family fortune has protected him his whole life and he has not unreasonably concluded he's untouchable. So what has to happen, and what frankly should happen, is he needs to be broken psychologically. Once he realizes he can't get away with everything and once he experiences painful consequences for his moral turpitude, I believe his psyche will collapse. It's just the way to accomplish that really shouldn't be discussed in polite company. :)
I am waiting for the full public meltdown. He is basically without a vocabulary beyond a 11 year old and the incoherence in his rants is getting worse.
Unfortunately, he is surrounded by cult followers who will always regard him as the highest moral authority -- and by a political party and a "conservative" media establishment devoted to protecting him from accountability, under the pretext that it's those who would hold him accountable who are "corrupt." The Trumpites are portraying his uncontrolled courtroom antics as a show of strength in the face of unprecedented persecution.
It boggles my mind how his narcissistic sociopathy has been turned into the heart of a political ideology that now governs one of the two major parties. It isn't enough to break Trump psychologically. The whole GOP needs to be shaken out of its craven servitude to a psychopath.
Oh, I'm aware, Carol. And what the cult doesn't understand is the trial is about determining the damages, not culpability, which has already been established. Because the cult is so far gone, they can't process that part of the reason Trump couldn't maintain the liquidity requirements for his financing is likely because Trump has burned pretty much every major US bank in the past and he's too high of a risk and therefore can't get cash. So let's review what the cult is condoning:
* It's OK to default on financial obligations
* It's OK to lie on forms to get financing
* It's OK to be verbally abusive to officers of the court
* Lying is not disqualifying
* If you're not Donald Trump, 1 through 4 are invalid <----- KEY POINT
I hear what you are saying, just not sure a 77 yearold with little self awareness and so little emotional intelligence is capable of that kind of break.
He may have little self awareness and little emotional intelligence, but he's also mentally weak and finding the right pressure point really shouldn't be that difficult.
And ‘Deaths of Despair’ go along with that impotent rage. Fingers crossed.
Meanwhile I’m getting a refresher course in the Abnormal Psychology class I had to take in nursing school. Symptoms I couldn’t quite grasp back then are becoming clear - like projection.
Re: Trump as national security risk: There isn't a ghost of a chance that Trump could pass muster for any security clearance in the US government, yet he can be elected POTUS and, as Jill Lawrence points out, pardon those who have been convicted of posing a security threat. Putin was really on to something when he decided to back Trump for POTUS.
In my imagination any non-trump sitting at the resolute desk, how does one square the oath of office with letting that guy anywhere near any office again. I can't do it but don't understand why every ounce of energy isn't being put into making it so, one way or another. or i'm just not smart enough to understand ...
“Naturally, he followed up his performance by fundraising off it, sending out an email to supporters proclaiming that “America has descended into utter tyranny” and that “right before our very eyes, our once beautiful Republic is being transformed into a Marxist tin-pot dictatorship where Crooked Joe’s regime has weaponized the legal system against not only a former president (your favorite, I might add), but against the very citizens he swore an oath to protect.”
Two words: Projection much????
As for Hamas, they are a terror organization that needs to be eradicated. That said, I feel the same way about Netanyahu and his right-wing government that wants to expel Palestinians from the West Bank and push them into Jordan.
Religious fanatics of any religion are the antithesis of good government and good policy decisions. There is no place for religious zealots in government, period.
My only question is what the Gaza looks like if Israel can annihilate Hamas? Are we back to the status quo? If so, expect much of the same in two to three years: Hamas or some new terrorist organization attacks. Israel responds more ferociously, implementing even greater restrictions on Palestinians and its Rinse, lather repeat. Except each time technology improves and more innocents die or suffer severely.
Einstein said, “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.”
I’m done with the insanity on both sides. Time for the international community to force a solution that neither side may love, but both can live with.
Hamas thinks the whole world should be forcibly subjugated under its own creed and is quite open about it. E.g.: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” Hamas represents the thinking behind the original Arab objection to Israel's existence: a belief that there should be no non-Islamic entity in the region - and ultimately, none anywhere in the world. There is nothing comparable in the thinking of Netanyahu.
Another difference:
Hamas believes that large numbers of people among those it claims to represent should be sacrificed for the higher good of eradicating Jews and imposing Islam everywhere. Hamas fighters deliberately hide behind civilians -- either to restrain Israel (which Hamas clearly knows to have some qualms about killing innocents), or to gain a propaganda advantage from civilian deaths.
Another difference:
The most hardcore of the Israeli right wing don't appear to have deliberately targeted children and elderly for torture.
Or the original Arab objection could be that thousands of white Europeans who had been victims of a genocide that said Arabs had nothing to do with, streamed into Palestine to forcibly take the land from the people who were living on it. Prior to WWII there were some 260,000 Jews located throughout Middle Eastern countries where they were not subject to violence. There was no belief that the Jews shouldn't exist "anywhere in the world."
People have been fantasizing about a "bang their heads together" approach for decades. It won't work because, for starters, "international community" is an oxymoron.
The extreme religious right in Israel is both violent and anarchic and thus represents a growing threat to Israel itself. No state can tolerate rampant lawlessness within its jurisdiction, whether by its enemies or its supposed friends. Needless to say, the extreme right routinely defames those - very much including IDF generals - who oppose it as "leftist traitors."
Wholeheartedly agree. My point; the status quo gets us nowhere, and the intransigence is significant on both sides; especially when Netanyahu is in charge.
Bibi coddles those people at his own risk, but he probably couldn't survive in office without them, since it's doubtful the opposition would bail him out if he cut them loose.
Plus his best chance to stay out of jail is to remain PM, so the extremists have the leverage and can practice political extortion. The only prescription for that is for the US to put its thumb on the other scale - which it has tried fitfully to do.
I've toyed half seriously with the idea of Israel's president granting Bibi a preemptive pardon to make it more palatable for him to risk his job. Crazy, I know.
True, but Bibi won’t survive this regardless of the outcome. His own party has disavowed him. He and the religious wing-nuts are living on borrowed time.
When at war, the criticism in Israel stops for the greater good. When this is over, so is Bibi’s career and that of his right-wing cohorts.
It might be more likely that the Arab oil states, Egypt, Lebanon etc. ban together in an effort to neutralize Iran's interference in all things Middle East. It wouldn't be all that hard to drag Turkey into such an alliance as well. I just don't see any solution as long as Iran is stirring the pot.
Agreed. However, if you cut them off by the knees, it could work. Start by decapitating all their proxies in Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza and Syria and we could eventually reduce Iran’s stranglehold in the region.
I know, easier said than done. However, if the gulf states stop funding these terrorists, it would be a good start.
Currently, Qatar gives billions to Hamas each year. Biden could end it pronto.
That requires the 'international community' be willing to stick its proverbial hand into that pit of scorpions and get stung a bunch of times. It'll never happen.
I agree to an extent. The difference between what you call Jewish terrorists back in the 1940’s against the British, is that Ben-Gurion and Begin didn’t kill innocents; they warned the British about bomb attacks; also they didn’t kill innocents; raping women indiscriminately and beheading babies. So there is a difference.
I agree Jews and Palestinians are cousins, and the difference is Jews didn’t convert during the reign of the Ottomans.
I’m a secular Jew and I am more of a Deist when it comes to religion, but agree, they are killing each other over stupidity, while the world uses them as pawns. No one wants the Palestinians. They were useful idiots during the Cold War, but today they are only supporting by Iran and other terror organizations that want to destabilize the Middle East.
That said, there is a difference between Israel and Hamas. Israel isn’t committed to the death of a Palestinian people; Hamas’s charter makes Israel’s destruction a part of its mandate.
And remember how Hamas came into being. They are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood who assassinated Sadat after making peace with Israel. And one of its leaders, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is now the head Al Qaeda today.
Furthermore, Hamas originated as a terror group, killing Jews and Palestinians alike in 93-94, during negotiations for the Oslo Accords. So I doubt they would ever be committed to a two state solution. They are extremists trying to pretend they are rational actors. Just this weekend, the head of Hamas’s political wing said the only acceptable outcome is total annihilating of the state of Israel, when speaking to Al Jazeera in Lebanon.
And today, they are no better than the Taliban. There are no rights in Gaza. They rule supreme, and the goal is to make an Islamic Caliphate in Jerusalem and eventually destroy Egypt, Jordan and Syria as well.
Actually, I mostly agree with you on the facts; you know your history. As for Shamir and Sharon, I have no love for either of the two. I consider them fanatics.
And I’m very familiar with the savageness of the slaughter at Shatila and Sabra. It just goes to show you; even in today’s world, all sides in the Middle East still engage in Old Testament justice.
And Let’s not forget, Munich was only in the distant past when those acts by the Christian militia’s took place, and the hatred on both sides was raw and significant, to say the least.
I know you read my posts, but I consider myself a humanist before anything else. The suffering of the Palestinians for decades cannot be denied. However, part of the issue is leadership of the Palestinians, or lack thereof. Additionally, Israeli’s bought into the Israeli version of Trump, before Trump became Trump.
That said, I think we can both agree that Hamas’s goals are a pipe-dream at best, and suicidal at worst. I don’t mind the college students protesting, I truly feel for the innocents being killed as part of Israel’s response, and like you, call for a ceasefire.
However, the slogan “from the river to the sea” is a dog whistle, the same way white supremacists use “woke,” “political correctness,” and 1776 Commission as dog whistles to their base. Or Trump’s use of “stand back and stand by,” as a call to arms to white nationalists in this country.
That said, what can we do? Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself. Every country does the same and commits the same crimes as Israel.
We killed over 500,000 innocent civilians in Iraq, bombing neighborhoods. The US, British and French bombed Libya in 2011, killing innocent civilians. The Saudi’s and UAE in Yemen have done far more damage than Israel is doing now. Additionally, the Turks in Syria have been bombing and killing the Kurds. Not to mention, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which no one talks about anymore, but are tragedies and slaughters taking place as we comment here.
I personally have equal disdain for Hamas and the Israeli settlers. I have family in Israel and they feel the same. Some even live in neighborhoods with Israeli Palestinians and they are friends.
So I understand both points of view, but history is the past. The Israeli’s and Palestinians need to forget the past and live in the present; otherwise, nothing changes. There may be an opportunity for a two state solution once this invasion is over. Small, but still a viable possibility.
I truly hope cooler heads will prevail, but it’s the Middle East, and if Afghanistan is a place where superpowers go to die, then the road to hell starts and ends in Jerusalem!
FYI: I respect your positions and your comments, and look forward to future discussions...:)
Judge Engeron can 'beseech' Trump's two lawyers all he wants and they won't lift a finger to stop the Trump Show. Kise already has his three million banked, and Halina Babba is auditioning for a bigger role in Cable media to find her three million. Plus she's as crazy as Trump, but smart enough to know Trump will make her a whole lot more money than litigating parking lot problems. Trump's attorneys perfectly represent the fraud that is Trump's brand.
Will these people be his lawyers for the felony trials? Jack Smith won't let him get away with attacking the court, neither will Judge Chutkan. He could end up being in jail during the entire trial. He may be pushing for that as the biggest fundraiser.
Jack Smith is just a guy, you know? Like Judge Engeron is just a guy. Jack Smith isn't going to introduce Trump to discipline. That would take a miracle. I mean, I hope you're right and that Jack Smith will somehow come up with a magic way nobody has thought of to stop Trump from attacking the court, but I am wary of putting too many hopes onto Mueller, oops I mean Christie, oops I mean Cheney, oops I mean Romney, oops I mean Jack Smith.
I doubt that Trump will testify in the felony cases. He knew that he has lost this civil case. He knew they wouldn't put him in jail. If his lawyers let him testify then he should sue them for malpractice. He would defend himself by admitting that he thought he was allowed to do everything. It may convince one person in the jury, but not on all counts.
I am beginning to think all of Trump's lawyers think the only way they keep Trump out of prison is to allow him to turn these court appearances into campaign events in an effort to re elect him president. Part of that strategy is to delay the various criminal trials as much as possible so if they lose one or more, Trump can still campaign while the verdicts are on appeal.
I cannot see why someone who is found guilty of trying to overthrow the US government should be out on appeal. The man incited violence, and if found guilty of such, should be treated like any other violent criminal: given full access to appeals from inside the stony lonesome.
I'd love to see that happen, but the reality is Trump has not been treated like any other violent criminal and as long as he is the GOP nominee, he won't be. Trump has been nothing but a norm breaking shit show since he slid down the escalator.
Yeah, it’s an irritating paradox that Trump plays the victim, even as he’s treated with kid gloves. I often wonder if the law has been backing off out of routine deference to a former president and current candidate, or if it’s due to fear of the civil strife that will be perpetrated by Trump’s violent supporters. The violence is coming, either way, is my guess.
How do so many followers think this whining mini-man is someone to follow? Strong men don't whine and whimper as Charlie describes: "Here was the former president under oath in a trial that threatens to unravel his empire of fraud. And it went about as you might expect: the belligerent vitriol, bravado, grievance, and insults; the filibustering, logic-rapes, tangents, boorishness, bullshit, and, of course, the lies. Trump seethed and exploded." And this guy polls higher than our current president? WTF?
MAGAs believe that Trump really owned the courtroom and totally defeated his enemies and schooled the judge on how business really works, etc.
No amount of unhinged lunacy from Trump will ever convince the MAGAfied GOP that maybe there's something wrong with him -- rather than with the justice system or all the other institutions that have tried to maintain the guardrails.
Trump displayed his usual bluster, deflect and basically decided he and he alone knows the value of any and all real estate simply by looking at it. Too bad he did not admit in court how much he owes the Scottish government for back taxes and his promise to build housing in the area around his golf course is under scrutiny. He lied, again!
He did admit several things yesterday under oath. 1) he was NOT president in 2021 when taxes were due.
2) Every one with power in Trump Org. was responsible for the false docs.
I thought you were kidding about the fundraising email Trump sent out until I went and read it. The cult really has been conditioned to believe anything. How do these people even feed and clothe themselves?
Just a note. While our election is not as sexy as all the others, we are voting today. I realize North Carolina has monumental issues, but we are, as of today, still allowed to vote.
The fact that Peter Meijer's first interview was on "Real America's Voice News" is stunning and speaks volumes.
The three-year-old "network", which, according to former employees, internally cops to being Trump propaganda, got its start by platforming Steve Bannon's "War Room". This was what enabled the grift that got him indicted and then pardoned by Trump. It's run by Robert Sigg, a convicted felon with a considerable rap sheet of petty crimes ranging from DUI to burglary and domestic violence.
Oh, and in 2012 his psychopath 17-year old son Austin murdered and dismembered a 10-year old girl. Seriously. He's now serving life in prison.
I'm sure that last part in no way reflects on his character, and is entirely unrelated to the fact that he runs a fake news chopshop that employs Steve Bannon and whose mission is to support Trump.
As usual, Trump's orbit is full of tremendous people. All the best people.
I never heard of this Peter dude until this bulwark. Not that I read the details...as I still only skim Charlie to get to the comments. Not sure if this a reason to be happy I have this website in my reading rotation or another reason to let me subscription lapse...
Trump's testimony suggests a new question for his supporters: "Do you believe, as he asserts, that he won all 50 states in 2020?"
Follow up question: "If these indictments are all politically inspired witch-hunts, why is every single witness against him a Republican, and almost all of them, people who worked for his administration or campaign?"
Another question that Republicans won't answer: "If Biden is weaponizing the DOJ to go after his 'main political opponent,' why have no criminal investigations been launched against any of the other GOP candidates that Republicans are free to select as Biden's 'main political opponent'?"
Peter Meijer is an example of why I've lost patience trying to understand "normie" Republicans and their motivations. Shit, Brett Stephens is at least willing to drop acid in order to bring himself to vote for Biden, Why can't we find more courage like that?
Meijer's motivations are transparent. He wants to be in power. And he'll twist himself into knots to get there.
I think he went to his family’s supermarket to get a case of Kool-Aid to drink.
The Jim Jones brand.
And I thought pretzels were twisted.
No such animal as a normie Republican on the Federal level.
There are a few on the state level.
One has to go to the still existing local "thinking constiuent" level to find elected officials who actual care about governing instead of feathering their own political bed.
I was just thinking this. I can't begin to comprehend the logic of someone who would vote to impeach someone for insurrection only to then publicly state they would still support the insurrectionist. How do we even begin to overcome this? Are we just entering a post-ethical era? That should work out well, almost as well as our post-racial era is working out
We overcome it by turning out in droves for elections at all levels.
I heard him on POTUS yesterday and was surprised how rational he sounded on basic topics being discussed until he rolled out the typical talking points about Uncle Joe not caring about China as a potential enemy.
It seems as if they realize that their potential voters will simply listen to their lies without question.
Sure works for Trump.
I don't get the feeling those statements are made to influence those with solid critical thought processes
LIKE AMERICAN VOTERS.
Two words come to mind; supinate or pronate.Take your pick.
And even those are getting to be fewer and farther between. Here in my little mostly-red corner of Virginia, we have our state delegate Marie March, once photographed with her husband, kids, and all their guns, and her acolyte Johanna Hicks on the local allegedly non-partisan town council who does nothing but cause trouble and then play the victim. Former head of the local county republicans (who also owns the local t**** store, natch) stepped down because the group wasn't far enough right for her liking.
Sad.
Insite of being in the heart of Trump country Indiana, with the similarly-minded Lying Sack of Rokita as the Atty General recently censured by our State Supreme Court for his attack on the doctor who performed the abortion of the 13-year old rape victim from Ohio, we have many normie Republicans and normie Democrats in greater Lafayette.
Governmentally speaking, it's like living in a time warp. It's sometimes difficult to determine party by voting patterns.
There is one lunatic book-banner on the Lafayette School Board and a die-hard lefty on the West Lafayette School Board, but otherwise we live in the state of normalcy, where pols actually work for the benefit of the greater community good.
I guess you could say, we live in a bubble.
That's amazing. I think I'd wake every morning wondering if the dream had turned into a nightmare.
That Meijer tweet made me spit coffee.
A seven year nightmare and counting.
"Black is gray and yellow is white.It is we who decide what is real.Or what is an illusion." *Moody Blues Late Lament
Yeah, that alleviated the little part of me that felt bad that Dems screwed him by backing his loony primary opponent. Given Meijer’s position here he’s going to deserve the loss he gets in this primary, too.
He'll lose.
I’ve wondered if a reason why Republicans like Meijer say they support trump is to keep the MAGA crazies from attacking his family and campaign staff. But, I’m probably trying to find a rational explanation for an irrational situation, which just leads to SMDH.
If that were the case, I think the easiest way not to be attacked is not to go on television. But then he wouldn't be "famous."
What a dilemma! The ones with a thinking brain are saddled with cognitive dissonance.
"Performance art" as Charlie says.
That's probably the case. It is also the case that the more the 'normies' bend the knee to Trump, the more powerful he becomes. It NEVER gets easier to face down a would-be tyrant. He's afraid of the mob now? Regardless of the outcome of 2024, Trump's cult will have as its only focus exacting revenge. Nobody will be safe.
"Bending the knee" sure worked in Game of Thrones just as it does with Trump
The Trump supporters are like storm troopers.if you criticize the object of their devotion they physically harm you.
Asked and answered in your last sentence.
Ah the shroud treatment!
Wait what? Tell me more about Bret Stephens dropping acid -- I missed that!
Was in Beg To Differ Podcast. It was his way of saying how big a deal it would be to vote for Biden. Pissed me off.
If you need to drop acid, I wouldn’t call it courage; more like exasperation and desperation. Just saying...:)
In support (albeit miniscule support) of Meijer...at least he wasn't threatened with hanging like Pence who will now vote for Trump. <heavy sarc>
Really Bret … you need to drop acid to vote for Biden … it’s really not that hard!
Checking in to see where The Bulwark crow buffet will be served for all of those people that ended up on the fainting couch as Dems played hardball to take out "Good Republican" Peter Meijer.
They didn't even play hardball; they said completely honest things about how his *primary opponent* was insane, and it played with his voters. That's barely wiffle ball. The Republican primary constituency is just *that* crazy, but rather than coming to terms with that, they'd rather blame Democrats.
I also like how the definition of "Good Republican" had already by that point been stretched to "craven coward, but an articulate one"
The bar is very low and falling, for a “good” Republican.
More like noxious fumes emanating from some of those vaults.
Remember they all voted for Johnson after faking weeks of performance art playing the disorganized party. They new exactly who was going to become apeaker, they just had to tire everyone out before the ax fell.
Yep. All those anti trump Republicans didn't think the Dems should try to win elections against another Republican---go figure.
No one who has been following Trump's behavior over the past eight years can claim to be surprised by his courtroom antics. Whether it is intentional or simply him giving in to his primal urges is open to debate. But unquestionably it is Trump engaging in a sort of (free, of course) publicity campaign for his person and his brand. The Professional Victim plays the victim card in as high profile of a manner as he can, slathered in overly generous dollops of self-pity and grievance to make it more appetizing to his followers. Because he knows that this is the fuel that fires his rocket. As long as he can keep them wallowing in grievance and victimization, they are able to look past facts as if a secondary (or worse) priority in the evaluation of Trump as both a politician and as a person. How convenient for them. How pathetic for the rest of us.
No less pathetic is how familiar all this is, inverted. A generation ago the political right expressed its frustration and outrage about the far left engaging in political correctness and grievance-based agendas. It was what enabled Rush Limbaugh to become more than just Jeff Christie, a Pittsburgh radio DJ spinning musical hits and misses. It also gave us far more of Ted Nugent than we ever needed to hear outside of the musical realm and Newt Gingrich going from a bank-bench legislator to Speaker. Yet here they are now, wallowing in it all as if hogs in filth, gleefully playing those cards for all they are worth. As others before have said, there's little new in the developments of our world so much as there are variations on existing themes, reinterpreted for the benefit of the (bad) actors who both seize and hold the stage.
"No one who has been following Trump's behavior over the past eight years can claim to be surprised by his courtroom antics."
The only thing I'd change is the 8 years part. How long did we put up with the Obama "birther" nonsense (a handy tool for thinly disguised racism)? I like to go all the way back to Trump's pissing match with Graydon Carter (Spy Magazine). Graydon Carter coined the term "short fingered vulgarian" in Spy and Trump sent him pictures of his hands for decades afterwards.
But it doesn't matter since almost any Trump supporter views him as the businessman hero of "The Apprentice." I'm hoping there is a special place in Hell for Mark Burnett.
Well see that's it. People see tv as real. If you play a smart savy business person on TV, that's who the majority of TV addicts will believe. How often have actors who played doctors on TV get gigs "playing" who recommend "health" products.
Businessman hero of The Apprentice - how right you are. How many people tuned in to hear the great and powerful Oz cue up the ominous music to build suspense around the plight of some hapless idiot fake employee who wanted to be on television, all leading to the completely predictable conclusion... "You're Fired".
Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?
How sad for our country that tens of millions can't tell the difference?
If you're from NYC it's more like 40 years. He is and always was a Putz. He couldn't have gotten elected street sweeper to follow the Ringling Brothers elephant walk if he ran unopposed.
New game show from Mark Burnett;The masked apprentice.
As a warning to the nation back in 2017, Dr. Brandy X. Lee and other psychiatrists/psychologists published "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump", documenting his psychopathic narcissism and forecasting where it would lead. Trump has been acting according to script ever since. That's what makes Trump so boring. Once you take his psychopathy into account, he is entirely predictable, including his narcissistic rage - which he will unleash upon the world if he is ever again given the power of the presidency.
And all the best thinkers of MAGA-world say "That's just Trump being Trump. Look at all the great judges he appointed!!"
What's scary is how many people buy into this persona. There are tyrants and mass murderers who have had millions follow them off a cliff. There just seem to be a significant segment of the human population who have no defense against a grifter's lies because they cannot think critically.
I have always liked Mike Murphy’s take on The Donald...(from memory) He’s the atomic clock of being Trump.
"The more things change, the more they stay the same".
The GOP is not only personally, politically and morally bankrupt from top to bottom, it is certifiably insane. Trump should be impeached, but I am all in for Trump 2024. Hello??? And these are the “normies”???
Unfortunately these “leaders” have all gone mad because their voters have. I fear we may get what we deserve, the most repressive, dictatorial autocracy imaginable, and soon. I never thought I would see this, but it could well be coming. The “right” and beyond the “right” has lost its mind. We are not the crazies, right Charlie?
Plus, Trump continues to claim that Mar a Lago, for which he pays property taxes on $18 million, is worth $1500 million--$1.5 billion. Is it possible to invoke the 25 Amendment prophylactically?
Waiting for the property taxes to increase a thousand-fold, and TFF*G to claim he was being fleeced.
It would be justice right after he pays the state of NY what he owes. I am a New Yorker and pay my full taxes annually and it's time Trump paid his fair share!!!
Should we use his numbers for the taxes or the real ones? :-) If the city/state used his "numbers", they would hear his scream on the moon!
It'll probably be another fundraising grift.
Actually something like 83.3 fold. By the way, the valuation at $18 million was appealed as being too high.
LOL! I almost used the 83.3 (yes, I did the math :-)). But thousand-fold sounds niftier. :-)
By that reasoning, my place is worth about $75 million. Don't tell the Assessor, and yes, my "brand" too is gold plated.
Now that you have established that, you can take loans off that value, buy some more properties, rinse and repeat. Before long you can launch a fake airline, a fake university, bankrupt a couple casinos and launch an incredibly stupid fake TV show where millions of people will tune in to hear you say "You're fired". Next stop the presidency.
Then, when you get there can you make it all just stop??
Is your toilet to?
Well, to give Trump his due, maybe he was including the value of the classified documents that were held at Mar-A-Lago as part of its overall valuation?
Too bad we can't go back in time and prophylactically eliminate tRump.....
Meijer’s illogical support for Trump after voting to impeach is as baffling as Adam Kinzinger’s admission that he DIDN’T vote for Trump in 2016, but he DID vote for Trump in 2020. At least he’s on a perpetual mea culpa tour. But I’ll never understand.
And let's not forget that Adam then QUIT
Charley - I will say briefly what I said on JVL's post.
The polls are incompetently done. The methodology is terrible.
This is the same poll that said Roe v Wade would not be a factor in 22.
When you have demonstrably false/incomplete data, you can draw NO conclusion except to say the data is bad.
When you give it air time, you are helping Trump by giving it legitimacy and creating despair.
Why do that?
It’s shocking how those headlines are everywhere, without any digging into the methodology.
Polls also predicted a solid win for Hillary in 2016, so I try to tune it out, but the media seems irresponsible, yet again.
Polls are not a science; they are subjective and flawed. It is like the stock market. People can lose their socks by predictions. I remember that when Bush came to power, I was working for NASA. We had this system toward retirement. We could put this money in a Thrift Savings Account, and we could choose to put it in government bonds or the stock market. I don't know why, but as soon as Bush was elected, I took it all out of the stock market and put it in government bonds. Many people lost their savings when they put them in the stock market. My point? Polls are as unreliable as the stock market. Just VOTE! And Edward, I have the same question for Charlie, what is his end game? Why is he creating despair? Is it that Charlie as a conservative who used to be a staunched Reagan Republican sees his party go to shit and he does not know what hit him? So, let us feel sorry for him, he is after all a human being and worthy of our respect. I don't envy him, though, I am glad that I never voted Republican, I always loved Democracy too much, especially as a woman who wants her right to choose.
Great comment about the interpretive nature of polls.
I think Charlie hasn't fundamentally changed with reflect to his belief structures. He is still conservative and (I suspect) deeply Christian. But that has not closed his eyes to the ways in which folks have been hypnotized by TFG.
I give him much credit for having the courage to simply stand up and say no.
like Bill Krystal,Lizz Chenney,Addam Kinzinger
I read a poll a week ago that over 50% of voters didn't want Trump to be the presidential candidate. Go figure
Maybe he wants to scare normal people into voting for Biden.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"!
48-44 is still not enough for Biden to win the EC.
Iffy
"At one point, Judge Engoron pleaded with the ex-president’s lawyer: 'I beseech you to control him if you can.'
"But that’s the point. You can’t control him. And that was on full display yesterday."
There is a way to control Trump. It's just the way to do so shouldn't be discussed in polite company and hasn't been used yet.
I understand as a last resort, shock collars are an effective deterrent.
I wouldn't use it on a dog but I'm okay with popping one on Trump.
How do I like that twice?
In that vein we could just spray him in the face with a vinegar/water mixture every time he acts up, I would be okay with that too.
Give him some big Mac s,a bucket of KFC,That may calm him down.
But that would be messy in a courtroom.
His lawyers should practice with it beforehand.
Too much orange goo all over the floor . . .
"Would you like our new special Russian sauce on your Big Mac today, Mr. President?"
"What's in it?"
"A special blend of herbs, spices, and a dash of polonium-210 to ensure freshness!"
It probably would be that easy....
I doubt his feeble brain would even know what polonium-210 is. Just tell him it's Putin's favorite spice.
It’s what makes plain old borscht into “Putin’s Borscht”.
I wonder what would happen if Trump was court-ordered to have a psychiatric evaluation? His testimony sounds like it was the raving of a madman (Yes, I know this is how Trump has been talking for quite a while now). Instead of just in public, he has now talked like this in a legal setting. Maybe Engeron could help Trump survive this fraud case by finding him insane.
I'm actually thankful that Engeron kept his cool yesterday and let Trump be Trump. This reduces the risk of his ruling being overturned on appeal. And it also forces Trump's supporters to defend the behavior.
As far as being forced to have a psych evaluation, a normal family would do that, but the Trump family is dysfunctional and has been for over a century.
I agree with that. It was a nice try for the usual type of control. Maybe Engeron needed to do that, then to allow Trump to just spew, with respect to an appeal. Honestly, letting Trump just talk is the best way to get him to admit all kinds of stuff, which per reports, he did. Engeron can simply use Trump's words against him. It will make for delightful reading of the verdict and judgement.
I was in awe yesterday when Trump insisted that his net worth was well over $2.5B and he confidently told the DA they had no case. And when you read the footnotes in his financial statements, he's basically telling the reader that he's full of shit. Frankly, I don't know what'll be more satisfying to watch: losing Trump Tower, or Mar-a-Lago.
Mar-a-Lago.
Because he won't want to come back to NYC and he can't afford anything that nice in Florida.
He was never welcomed into NYC high society. He was always, and correctly, regarded as uncouth. I think it was Tim O'Brien who recently called the Trump family unsophisticated and ignorant. Florida has devolved into a melting pot of goons, mooks, and money launderers. So I think you're right: if Trump loses Mar-a-Lago, that'll be a lot of fun to watch. Imagine believing that shithole is worth $1.5B.
It would be such justice if he lost all his properties, with just enough money left to buy his childhood home in Queens.
We were watching "The Devil's Advocate" last week and Trump's penthouse in that movie is prominently featured as the home of Craig T. Nelson's character. The décor is abhorrent.
I want to see him locked up in Trump Tower. It's my new fantasy. Like Sauron in LOTR, Trump is locked up permanently in his own tower.
With no putting green or any other way to play golf.
or maybe in the elevator shaft at Trump Tower.Afterall he did include it in his"30,000 sq. ft apartment".
$2.5B you say...Que my add about him inheriting $400M and working a lifetime to generate less than an index fund would have gotten him.
I know, right? He's all proud of himself for saying he's worth over $2.5B, and he can't admit if he had done what you just said, he'd have been better off.
His NY business license.
It will sure come in handy for Jack Smith and Fanni Willis.
Can you imagine? The admissions of guilt just pouring out. They'll need raincoats.
Engeron and Chutkan have both asked his lawyers if Trump really understands their court orders and if he is capable of complying with them. That's pretty pointed.
I think that Trump is showing that he cannot. Whether they want to consider this to be a shrewd calculation or evidence of a decompensating mind is another thing. Problem is that it is in the (inappropriate) interest of Trump's entourage to encourage this behavior. They have become Trump in that they will use him for their self-interest even if it to Trump's detriment. The snake eating itself.
That and getting reelected maybe Trump's only real defense to avoid prison.
like the top of Trump s head
He is trying to goad the judge to say something that could be grounds for appeal.
It is so fustrating to see this judge practically having to beg. Like you are a judge!! True real life isn't a perry Mason or L&O episode but sweet goodness. if this was another defendent he would be at least fined, held in contempt, put on house arrest something!! The helplessness those the are supposed to be in positions of authority is beyond fustrating. I know that there 2 systems of justice but dang....Trump could have taken a dump of the court floor and it would have been "can we get some one to have a toliet next to the stand"!!
Everything TFG does is performative. Remember his classmates from that military school said he would never admit he was wrong even with the evidence there for all to see. He’s been performing as a human being with a soul his entire life. He knows he is empty inside, maybe the only thing he knows about himself. ! It won’t end well for him but he doesn’t care, he can’t stop.
Is there a 5th avenue Sundown Showdown in the future?
Patrick, my own belief is Trump's sense of self is incredibly fragile. This is why we see him act out the way he does. He believes that because he's him, he should be able to do anything he wants. His family fortune has protected him his whole life and he has not unreasonably concluded he's untouchable. So what has to happen, and what frankly should happen, is he needs to be broken psychologically. Once he realizes he can't get away with everything and once he experiences painful consequences for his moral turpitude, I believe his psyche will collapse. It's just the way to accomplish that really shouldn't be discussed in polite company. :)
I am waiting for the full public meltdown. He is basically without a vocabulary beyond a 11 year old and the incoherence in his rants is getting worse.
I'm hoping we see an abrupt physical deterioration, as we did with Paul Manafort and Harvey Weinstein, which would dispel his 'strongman' image.
We should be so lucky.
You’re being very unfair to 11 yr olds
You are getting warmer
More like a 7 year old
Unfortunately, he is surrounded by cult followers who will always regard him as the highest moral authority -- and by a political party and a "conservative" media establishment devoted to protecting him from accountability, under the pretext that it's those who would hold him accountable who are "corrupt." The Trumpites are portraying his uncontrolled courtroom antics as a show of strength in the face of unprecedented persecution.
It boggles my mind how his narcissistic sociopathy has been turned into the heart of a political ideology that now governs one of the two major parties. It isn't enough to break Trump psychologically. The whole GOP needs to be shaken out of its craven servitude to a psychopath.
Oh, I'm aware, Carol. And what the cult doesn't understand is the trial is about determining the damages, not culpability, which has already been established. Because the cult is so far gone, they can't process that part of the reason Trump couldn't maintain the liquidity requirements for his financing is likely because Trump has burned pretty much every major US bank in the past and he's too high of a risk and therefore can't get cash. So let's review what the cult is condoning:
* It's OK to default on financial obligations
* It's OK to lie on forms to get financing
* It's OK to be verbally abusive to officers of the court
* Lying is not disqualifying
* If you're not Donald Trump, 1 through 4 are invalid <----- KEY POINT
Kinda sounds like evangelicals
I know, right? I should have added adultery is fine as well. Evangelicals love people who cheat on their spouses.
Tomorrow should be really interesting when Yvanka takes the stand. She holds a number of keys to Trump's psyche.
I hear what you are saying, just not sure a 77 yearold with little self awareness and so little emotional intelligence is capable of that kind of break.
He may have little self awareness and little emotional intelligence, but he's also mentally weak and finding the right pressure point really shouldn't be that difficult.
Uncontrollable rage might cause sudden demise. If not, public display of it might wake up MAGAs, one can hope.
Not really. For men over the age of 70, uncontrollable rage isn't that unusual. It's another way Trump is just like them.
And ‘Deaths of Despair’ go along with that impotent rage. Fingers crossed.
Meanwhile I’m getting a refresher course in the Abnormal Psychology class I had to take in nursing school. Symptoms I couldn’t quite grasp back then are becoming clear - like projection.
"Get off my lawn'
Re: Trump as national security risk: There isn't a ghost of a chance that Trump could pass muster for any security clearance in the US government, yet he can be elected POTUS and, as Jill Lawrence points out, pardon those who have been convicted of posing a security threat. Putin was really on to something when he decided to back Trump for POTUS.
In my imagination any non-trump sitting at the resolute desk, how does one square the oath of office with letting that guy anywhere near any office again. I can't do it but don't understand why every ounce of energy isn't being put into making it so, one way or another. or i'm just not smart enough to understand ...
“Naturally, he followed up his performance by fundraising off it, sending out an email to supporters proclaiming that “America has descended into utter tyranny” and that “right before our very eyes, our once beautiful Republic is being transformed into a Marxist tin-pot dictatorship where Crooked Joe’s regime has weaponized the legal system against not only a former president (your favorite, I might add), but against the very citizens he swore an oath to protect.”
Two words: Projection much????
As for Hamas, they are a terror organization that needs to be eradicated. That said, I feel the same way about Netanyahu and his right-wing government that wants to expel Palestinians from the West Bank and push them into Jordan.
Religious fanatics of any religion are the antithesis of good government and good policy decisions. There is no place for religious zealots in government, period.
My only question is what the Gaza looks like if Israel can annihilate Hamas? Are we back to the status quo? If so, expect much of the same in two to three years: Hamas or some new terrorist organization attacks. Israel responds more ferociously, implementing even greater restrictions on Palestinians and its Rinse, lather repeat. Except each time technology improves and more innocents die or suffer severely.
Einstein said, “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.”
I’m done with the insanity on both sides. Time for the international community to force a solution that neither side may love, but both can live with.
Just some thoughts...:)
One difference between Hamas and Netanyahu:
Hamas thinks the whole world should be forcibly subjugated under its own creed and is quite open about it. E.g.: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” Hamas represents the thinking behind the original Arab objection to Israel's existence: a belief that there should be no non-Islamic entity in the region - and ultimately, none anywhere in the world. There is nothing comparable in the thinking of Netanyahu.
Another difference:
Hamas believes that large numbers of people among those it claims to represent should be sacrificed for the higher good of eradicating Jews and imposing Islam everywhere. Hamas fighters deliberately hide behind civilians -- either to restrain Israel (which Hamas clearly knows to have some qualms about killing innocents), or to gain a propaganda advantage from civilian deaths.
Another difference:
The most hardcore of the Israeli right wing don't appear to have deliberately targeted children and elderly for torture.
Agreed..:)
Or the original Arab objection could be that thousands of white Europeans who had been victims of a genocide that said Arabs had nothing to do with, streamed into Palestine to forcibly take the land from the people who were living on it. Prior to WWII there were some 260,000 Jews located throughout Middle Eastern countries where they were not subject to violence. There was no belief that the Jews shouldn't exist "anywhere in the world."
People have been fantasizing about a "bang their heads together" approach for decades. It won't work because, for starters, "international community" is an oxymoron.
The extreme religious right in Israel is both violent and anarchic and thus represents a growing threat to Israel itself. No state can tolerate rampant lawlessness within its jurisdiction, whether by its enemies or its supposed friends. Needless to say, the extreme right routinely defames those - very much including IDF generals - who oppose it as "leftist traitors."
Wholeheartedly agree. My point; the status quo gets us nowhere, and the intransigence is significant on both sides; especially when Netanyahu is in charge.
Bibi coddles those people at his own risk, but he probably couldn't survive in office without them, since it's doubtful the opposition would bail him out if he cut them loose.
Plus his best chance to stay out of jail is to remain PM, so the extremists have the leverage and can practice political extortion. The only prescription for that is for the US to put its thumb on the other scale - which it has tried fitfully to do.
I've toyed half seriously with the idea of Israel's president granting Bibi a preemptive pardon to make it more palatable for him to risk his job. Crazy, I know.
True, but Bibi won’t survive this regardless of the outcome. His own party has disavowed him. He and the religious wing-nuts are living on borrowed time.
When at war, the criticism in Israel stops for the greater good. When this is over, so is Bibi’s career and that of his right-wing cohorts.
It might be more likely that the Arab oil states, Egypt, Lebanon etc. ban together in an effort to neutralize Iran's interference in all things Middle East. It wouldn't be all that hard to drag Turkey into such an alliance as well. I just don't see any solution as long as Iran is stirring the pot.
Agreed. However, if you cut them off by the knees, it could work. Start by decapitating all their proxies in Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza and Syria and we could eventually reduce Iran’s stranglehold in the region.
I know, easier said than done. However, if the gulf states stop funding these terrorists, it would be a good start.
Currently, Qatar gives billions to Hamas each year. Biden could end it pronto.
That requires the 'international community' be willing to stick its proverbial hand into that pit of scorpions and get stung a bunch of times. It'll never happen.
Fair enough, but one can dream, can’t he?...:)
Yeah, It might looked like it did in the past?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/06/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-jordan-airdrops-medical-supplies-gaza-blinken-turkey-push-contain-conflict?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with%3Ablock-65498da28f081391dc01ada4#block-65498da28f081391dc01ada4
I agree to an extent. The difference between what you call Jewish terrorists back in the 1940’s against the British, is that Ben-Gurion and Begin didn’t kill innocents; they warned the British about bomb attacks; also they didn’t kill innocents; raping women indiscriminately and beheading babies. So there is a difference.
I agree Jews and Palestinians are cousins, and the difference is Jews didn’t convert during the reign of the Ottomans.
I’m a secular Jew and I am more of a Deist when it comes to religion, but agree, they are killing each other over stupidity, while the world uses them as pawns. No one wants the Palestinians. They were useful idiots during the Cold War, but today they are only supporting by Iran and other terror organizations that want to destabilize the Middle East.
That said, there is a difference between Israel and Hamas. Israel isn’t committed to the death of a Palestinian people; Hamas’s charter makes Israel’s destruction a part of its mandate.
And remember how Hamas came into being. They are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood who assassinated Sadat after making peace with Israel. And one of its leaders, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is now the head Al Qaeda today.
Furthermore, Hamas originated as a terror group, killing Jews and Palestinians alike in 93-94, during negotiations for the Oslo Accords. So I doubt they would ever be committed to a two state solution. They are extremists trying to pretend they are rational actors. Just this weekend, the head of Hamas’s political wing said the only acceptable outcome is total annihilating of the state of Israel, when speaking to Al Jazeera in Lebanon.
And today, they are no better than the Taliban. There are no rights in Gaza. They rule supreme, and the goal is to make an Islamic Caliphate in Jerusalem and eventually destroy Egypt, Jordan and Syria as well.
It’s wishful thinking!
Actually, I mostly agree with you on the facts; you know your history. As for Shamir and Sharon, I have no love for either of the two. I consider them fanatics.
And I’m very familiar with the savageness of the slaughter at Shatila and Sabra. It just goes to show you; even in today’s world, all sides in the Middle East still engage in Old Testament justice.
And Let’s not forget, Munich was only in the distant past when those acts by the Christian militia’s took place, and the hatred on both sides was raw and significant, to say the least.
I know you read my posts, but I consider myself a humanist before anything else. The suffering of the Palestinians for decades cannot be denied. However, part of the issue is leadership of the Palestinians, or lack thereof. Additionally, Israeli’s bought into the Israeli version of Trump, before Trump became Trump.
That said, I think we can both agree that Hamas’s goals are a pipe-dream at best, and suicidal at worst. I don’t mind the college students protesting, I truly feel for the innocents being killed as part of Israel’s response, and like you, call for a ceasefire.
However, the slogan “from the river to the sea” is a dog whistle, the same way white supremacists use “woke,” “political correctness,” and 1776 Commission as dog whistles to their base. Or Trump’s use of “stand back and stand by,” as a call to arms to white nationalists in this country.
That said, what can we do? Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself. Every country does the same and commits the same crimes as Israel.
We killed over 500,000 innocent civilians in Iraq, bombing neighborhoods. The US, British and French bombed Libya in 2011, killing innocent civilians. The Saudi’s and UAE in Yemen have done far more damage than Israel is doing now. Additionally, the Turks in Syria have been bombing and killing the Kurds. Not to mention, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which no one talks about anymore, but are tragedies and slaughters taking place as we comment here.
I personally have equal disdain for Hamas and the Israeli settlers. I have family in Israel and they feel the same. Some even live in neighborhoods with Israeli Palestinians and they are friends.
So I understand both points of view, but history is the past. The Israeli’s and Palestinians need to forget the past and live in the present; otherwise, nothing changes. There may be an opportunity for a two state solution once this invasion is over. Small, but still a viable possibility.
I truly hope cooler heads will prevail, but it’s the Middle East, and if Afghanistan is a place where superpowers go to die, then the road to hell starts and ends in Jerusalem!
FYI: I respect your positions and your comments, and look forward to future discussions...:)
We mostly agree. I think the disagreement is on the solutions. I’m actually at a loss...:)
Judge Engeron can 'beseech' Trump's two lawyers all he wants and they won't lift a finger to stop the Trump Show. Kise already has his three million banked, and Halina Babba is auditioning for a bigger role in Cable media to find her three million. Plus she's as crazy as Trump, but smart enough to know Trump will make her a whole lot more money than litigating parking lot problems. Trump's attorneys perfectly represent the fraud that is Trump's brand.
I think Engoron’s “beseeching” is partly courtroom stage craft. It highlights the bizarre behavior of Trump.
Will these people be his lawyers for the felony trials? Jack Smith won't let him get away with attacking the court, neither will Judge Chutkan. He could end up being in jail during the entire trial. He may be pushing for that as the biggest fundraiser.
Jack Smith is just a guy, you know? Like Judge Engeron is just a guy. Jack Smith isn't going to introduce Trump to discipline. That would take a miracle. I mean, I hope you're right and that Jack Smith will somehow come up with a magic way nobody has thought of to stop Trump from attacking the court, but I am wary of putting too many hopes onto Mueller, oops I mean Christie, oops I mean Cheney, oops I mean Romney, oops I mean Jack Smith.
I doubt that Trump will testify in the felony cases. He knew that he has lost this civil case. He knew they wouldn't put him in jail. If his lawyers let him testify then he should sue them for malpractice. He would defend himself by admitting that he thought he was allowed to do everything. It may convince one person in the jury, but not on all counts.
I’m cry-laughing over here.
I am beginning to think all of Trump's lawyers think the only way they keep Trump out of prison is to allow him to turn these court appearances into campaign events in an effort to re elect him president. Part of that strategy is to delay the various criminal trials as much as possible so if they lose one or more, Trump can still campaign while the verdicts are on appeal.
I cannot see why someone who is found guilty of trying to overthrow the US government should be out on appeal. The man incited violence, and if found guilty of such, should be treated like any other violent criminal: given full access to appeals from inside the stony lonesome.
I'd love to see that happen, but the reality is Trump has not been treated like any other violent criminal and as long as he is the GOP nominee, he won't be. Trump has been nothing but a norm breaking shit show since he slid down the escalator.
Yeah, it’s an irritating paradox that Trump plays the victim, even as he’s treated with kid gloves. I often wonder if the law has been backing off out of routine deference to a former president and current candidate, or if it’s due to fear of the civil strife that will be perpetrated by Trump’s violent supporters. The violence is coming, either way, is my guess.
How do so many followers think this whining mini-man is someone to follow? Strong men don't whine and whimper as Charlie describes: "Here was the former president under oath in a trial that threatens to unravel his empire of fraud. And it went about as you might expect: the belligerent vitriol, bravado, grievance, and insults; the filibustering, logic-rapes, tangents, boorishness, bullshit, and, of course, the lies. Trump seethed and exploded." And this guy polls higher than our current president? WTF?
MAGAs believe that Trump really owned the courtroom and totally defeated his enemies and schooled the judge on how business really works, etc.
No amount of unhinged lunacy from Trump will ever convince the MAGAfied GOP that maybe there's something wrong with him -- rather than with the justice system or all the other institutions that have tried to maintain the guardrails.
It is bizarre, isn't it?
Trump constantly begs the question "Would you like cheese with that whine?".
Trump displayed his usual bluster, deflect and basically decided he and he alone knows the value of any and all real estate simply by looking at it. Too bad he did not admit in court how much he owes the Scottish government for back taxes and his promise to build housing in the area around his golf course is under scrutiny. He lied, again!
He did admit several things yesterday under oath. 1) he was NOT president in 2021 when taxes were due.
2) Every one with power in Trump Org. was responsible for the false docs.
3) He is as insane as we thought!
Jill Lawrence was an excellent read this AM.
I thought you were kidding about the fundraising email Trump sent out until I went and read it. The cult really has been conditioned to believe anything. How do these people even feed and clothe themselves?
Just a note. While our election is not as sexy as all the others, we are voting today. I realize North Carolina has monumental issues, but we are, as of today, still allowed to vote.
The fact that Peter Meijer's first interview was on "Real America's Voice News" is stunning and speaks volumes.
The three-year-old "network", which, according to former employees, internally cops to being Trump propaganda, got its start by platforming Steve Bannon's "War Room". This was what enabled the grift that got him indicted and then pardoned by Trump. It's run by Robert Sigg, a convicted felon with a considerable rap sheet of petty crimes ranging from DUI to burglary and domestic violence.
Oh, and in 2012 his psychopath 17-year old son Austin murdered and dismembered a 10-year old girl. Seriously. He's now serving life in prison.
I'm sure that last part in no way reflects on his character, and is entirely unrelated to the fact that he runs a fake news chopshop that employs Steve Bannon and whose mission is to support Trump.
As usual, Trump's orbit is full of tremendous people. All the best people.
I never heard of this Peter dude until this bulwark. Not that I read the details...as I still only skim Charlie to get to the comments. Not sure if this a reason to be happy I have this website in my reading rotation or another reason to let me subscription lapse...
Wonderful allusion to Macbeth, Charlie.
I can't resist completing the quote since it fits TFG's courtroom performance so well:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Trump's testimony suggests a new question for his supporters: "Do you believe, as he asserts, that he won all 50 states in 2020?"
Follow up question: "If these indictments are all politically inspired witch-hunts, why is every single witness against him a Republican, and almost all of them, people who worked for his administration or campaign?"
Because they're all part of the "deep state". Duh!!
Another question that Republicans won't answer: "If Biden is weaponizing the DOJ to go after his 'main political opponent,' why have no criminal investigations been launched against any of the other GOP candidates that Republicans are free to select as Biden's 'main political opponent'?"
There isn't any question for MAGA that can't be convoluted or conspiracied out of..
Turtles all the way down.