Anyone of any political persuasion who wants to parade with signs and chants through a public space and not occupy it for an extended length of time to the exclusion of others, should feel free to do so; this is America, it is enshrined in the Constitution.
However, anyone (of any age) who chooses to enter a private space, and especially if they choose to occupy it to the exclusion of others and/or impair its intended function (like a private University administrative office), has to understand that they are subject to law enforcement action, including arrest and jailing. They have zero legitimate grounds for complaint about that. Same goes for anyone who chooses to occupy a public space for an extended period of time (remember those OWS folks who decided they could camp out in parks and plazas?). The late 1960s students who occupied university administrative offices in the Vietnam protests should have known that; it was absolutely no shame on any institution that chose to haul those students off to jail. I think we can all agree on this. It is a stain on the nation that the weirdos in Michigan who took over the statehouse during COVID weren't arrested.
If today's students think it's unfair that they could be arrested for turning a public space into a camp, let alone a private university space where the institution has instructed them not to do so, then they need to re-evaluate their priors. And if that makes them too scared to even exercise their actual 1st Amendment rights (a temporary protest parade, for example), then I question their commitment to the cause. And the civil rights protesters of the 1950s and 1960s, who understood the concept and risks of "civil disobedience", I bet would find such students lacking, regardless of who's in the White House.
I have no issue with pro-Palestinian protesters being out in the streets. What annoyed me in 2024 was how they decided to show up at every type of public agency meeting demanding that whatever the governing body was (city council, school board, whatever) pass anti-Israel resolutions. These governing bodies had zero jurisdiction over foreign policy, why are you disturbing their ability to conduct the business of their constituents? I think the public agencies which choose to adopt resolutions on matters of policy that have nothing to do with their agency's remit set a really bad example, and encourage these types of actions which can end up hurting the cause of the protesters.
I’m thinking that much of this concern about a lack of protest would dry up if a galvanizing anti-Trump leader emerged. As it is, we are in the “we are the ones we have been waiting for” phase and though that is the truest and most grounded and most worthwhile phase, it still needs a spark to set things off, which a galvanizing leader would provide. We are stuck right now in an in-between place, which is agonizing. And the real struggle is within the hearts and minds of our fellow Americans, and no one yet has figured out how to get a solid 60% consensus. It will take people listening to one another and compromising. But when we do, Trumpism will go bye-bye.
As for what’s up with young people, we can’t expect them to be better people than we are.
The Palestinian protests were always afroturfed by someone. That they were protesting real Israeli war crimes is a given. But that they appeared everywhere, all at once, and were so focused on how evil the Democrats were with regard to the situation in Gaza, with NO mention of the Republicans being in lock step with everything Isreal was doing indicated something more. The students anger was SO intense for a few months, until Kamala was defeated. Then, when even worse war crimes were committed upon Gaza, nothing. No protests. The goal had been met. Whomever paid for the online stuff that radicalized so many of our students, got exactly what they payed for, and wanted to achieve. WE got the Orange Menace, and now, he has ruined this great nation. And that's me being optomistic. I cannot BELIEVE that I woke up in this timeline again!
I am old enough (barely) to remember the 'Dump the Hump' campaign waged by elements of the anti war against Humphrey in 1968. That ended well, just like the campaign against Biden and Harris did.
I can’t really buy what these folks are spinning. Apparently all you have to do is threaten protestors or arrest a few to get them to shut up?
Here’s why I don’t buy it. If Biden had threatened his campus protestors and had Merrick Garland lock up a few, there would have been massive campus protests over that, even beyond the pro-Palestinian protests already happening. This is nothing more than a case of people hating on Democrats because it’s what gets their rocks off. And Democrats get blamed for the actions of the protestors, too, because somehow large swathes of the electorate bathe in such stupid media waters that they’re all convinced the campus protestors are Democrats. They’re not Democrats, they’re a bunch of college kids, none of whom voted Democrat in 2024.
As a Gaza protester let me give my opinion. First, there is a real “Kent State” vibe out there with all the National Guard and ICE around.
Second, Democratic Politicians are right. We are harder on them. They’re not supposed to be the “genocide Gaza” party. It’s expected of Republicans. You don’t protest a hurricane or a hyaena. It’s their evil nature.
Third, I think a lot of young folks are just checked out. The dystopian nightmare that America has become is exhausting. Things aren’t getting easier. It’s all bade vibes and bad direction. Of course it’s mostly Boomers at No Kings. They crapped on college kids for the Palestinian support, turns out they were right. F-off America. Let it collapse.
Protesters are just showing their true colours. They'll happily protest when there's no p[ossibility of personal danger, but when faced with the real possibility that they'll get their teeth kicked in instead of a ready-made party where they get to throw rocks at the cops who keep them safe from real criminals, they crumble and go back to writing blogs in their basments.
It's the same reason that protesters are happy to go to Israel to protest - they know the IDF won't just shoot them. Try that in Tehran, Damascus, Moscow, Pyongyang, Beijing or Dubai. If you really want change, create something.
I am not buying this line of reasoning about the lack of protest activity, not just among college students but also among young people in general. Participating in these rallies I have been struck by the prevalence of the elderly and the lack of the young. In general I am not a believer in conspiracy theories but the swiftness of the pro-Hamas demonstrations indicates to me that there was substantial outside financial and organizational support.
The folks who paid got what they wanted and convinced the pro-Palestine movement in the US to not vote. Plus they got the bonus of getting a bunch of Hamas supporters harassed by Trump
The (former) campus activists claim that college students are joining No Kings! demonstrations, but honestly, I'm not seeing the turnout in significant numbers of young people, compared to what was going on in 2024 on campuses. At least half of the No Kings! attendees are over the age of 50 and the rest are more likely to be millennials than college-age. It would not surprise me to find out that pro-Russian groups and other sources of dark money were funding some of these protests to hurt the Democrats and return their ally Trump to power. Prove me wrong, but otherwise, these kids are cowards who protest when there's no cost, but as soon as their rights are actually threatened, they scurry away like scared rabbits.
Not Machiavellian, Melian. The Melian dialogue is the original 'Might makes Right' statement. But the whole idea of a protest is to confront tyranny, not surrender when it gets so hard they might miss their coffee with the girls that afternoon. I believe that the whole 'no roughhousing' playtime rules have created a generation of kids who flinch and put their head under the pillows every time they don't get the result they want. Thgis suits dictators well. Thanks, Teachers' Union.
It always amazes (and disgusts) me when "student protesters" and other naive, blinders-on protesters, come out in force against the people who are closest to their views, screaming and screeching that they're impure. Then, after they've done their best to ensure the election of the people who are most antithetical to their views, they suddenly go silent.
I was a student at Columbia in the 1970s, at the tail end of the anti-war protests of the '60s (when my brother was active in all the anti-war groups there, like YAWF (Youth Against War and Facism) and SDS (Students for a Democratic Society), and that generation, too, opposed the most decent but imperfect leaders and then griped when their most avowed enemies won. My brother was one of those Nader voters in 2000, because god forbid Al Gore should be president, when his (pathetic) wife was against rock music. So they got Dubya, who was, until Trump, the lowest and worst of all the dumb republican presidents we've had in the past 60 years.
But, oh, it wasn't their fault that Nader won. No. It was Gore's fault, because he wasn't 100% progressive enough.
So now that Trump is doing all the things that they screamed that Harris would do, and Biden was doing, they shut their little mouths and cower in their "what about my future academic career" corners.
Anyone of any political persuasion who wants to parade with signs and chants through a public space and not occupy it for an extended length of time to the exclusion of others, should feel free to do so; this is America, it is enshrined in the Constitution.
However, anyone (of any age) who chooses to enter a private space, and especially if they choose to occupy it to the exclusion of others and/or impair its intended function (like a private University administrative office), has to understand that they are subject to law enforcement action, including arrest and jailing. They have zero legitimate grounds for complaint about that. Same goes for anyone who chooses to occupy a public space for an extended period of time (remember those OWS folks who decided they could camp out in parks and plazas?). The late 1960s students who occupied university administrative offices in the Vietnam protests should have known that; it was absolutely no shame on any institution that chose to haul those students off to jail. I think we can all agree on this. It is a stain on the nation that the weirdos in Michigan who took over the statehouse during COVID weren't arrested.
If today's students think it's unfair that they could be arrested for turning a public space into a camp, let alone a private university space where the institution has instructed them not to do so, then they need to re-evaluate their priors. And if that makes them too scared to even exercise their actual 1st Amendment rights (a temporary protest parade, for example), then I question their commitment to the cause. And the civil rights protesters of the 1950s and 1960s, who understood the concept and risks of "civil disobedience", I bet would find such students lacking, regardless of who's in the White House.
I have no issue with pro-Palestinian protesters being out in the streets. What annoyed me in 2024 was how they decided to show up at every type of public agency meeting demanding that whatever the governing body was (city council, school board, whatever) pass anti-Israel resolutions. These governing bodies had zero jurisdiction over foreign policy, why are you disturbing their ability to conduct the business of their constituents? I think the public agencies which choose to adopt resolutions on matters of policy that have nothing to do with their agency's remit set a really bad example, and encourage these types of actions which can end up hurting the cause of the protesters.
Given the price of gas these days, holograms might be the best way to save money.
I’m thinking that much of this concern about a lack of protest would dry up if a galvanizing anti-Trump leader emerged. As it is, we are in the “we are the ones we have been waiting for” phase and though that is the truest and most grounded and most worthwhile phase, it still needs a spark to set things off, which a galvanizing leader would provide. We are stuck right now in an in-between place, which is agonizing. And the real struggle is within the hearts and minds of our fellow Americans, and no one yet has figured out how to get a solid 60% consensus. It will take people listening to one another and compromising. But when we do, Trumpism will go bye-bye.
As for what’s up with young people, we can’t expect them to be better people than we are.
The Palestinian protests were always afroturfed by someone. That they were protesting real Israeli war crimes is a given. But that they appeared everywhere, all at once, and were so focused on how evil the Democrats were with regard to the situation in Gaza, with NO mention of the Republicans being in lock step with everything Isreal was doing indicated something more. The students anger was SO intense for a few months, until Kamala was defeated. Then, when even worse war crimes were committed upon Gaza, nothing. No protests. The goal had been met. Whomever paid for the online stuff that radicalized so many of our students, got exactly what they payed for, and wanted to achieve. WE got the Orange Menace, and now, he has ruined this great nation. And that's me being optomistic. I cannot BELIEVE that I woke up in this timeline again!
Not only campus protests, same on social media feed since Trump got back to the WH. Makes one wonder their consistency and sincerity.
That is so sad, such an indictment of those people, but not surprising.
I am old enough (barely) to remember the 'Dump the Hump' campaign waged by elements of the anti war against Humphrey in 1968. That ended well, just like the campaign against Biden and Harris did.
I can’t really buy what these folks are spinning. Apparently all you have to do is threaten protestors or arrest a few to get them to shut up?
Here’s why I don’t buy it. If Biden had threatened his campus protestors and had Merrick Garland lock up a few, there would have been massive campus protests over that, even beyond the pro-Palestinian protests already happening. This is nothing more than a case of people hating on Democrats because it’s what gets their rocks off. And Democrats get blamed for the actions of the protestors, too, because somehow large swathes of the electorate bathe in such stupid media waters that they’re all convinced the campus protestors are Democrats. They’re not Democrats, they’re a bunch of college kids, none of whom voted Democrat in 2024.
As a Gaza protester let me give my opinion. First, there is a real “Kent State” vibe out there with all the National Guard and ICE around.
Second, Democratic Politicians are right. We are harder on them. They’re not supposed to be the “genocide Gaza” party. It’s expected of Republicans. You don’t protest a hurricane or a hyaena. It’s their evil nature.
Third, I think a lot of young folks are just checked out. The dystopian nightmare that America has become is exhausting. Things aren’t getting easier. It’s all bade vibes and bad direction. Of course it’s mostly Boomers at No Kings. They crapped on college kids for the Palestinian support, turns out they were right. F-off America. Let it collapse.
Protesters are just showing their true colours. They'll happily protest when there's no p[ossibility of personal danger, but when faced with the real possibility that they'll get their teeth kicked in instead of a ready-made party where they get to throw rocks at the cops who keep them safe from real criminals, they crumble and go back to writing blogs in their basments.
It's the same reason that protesters are happy to go to Israel to protest - they know the IDF won't just shoot them. Try that in Tehran, Damascus, Moscow, Pyongyang, Beijing or Dubai. If you really want change, create something.
I am not buying this line of reasoning about the lack of protest activity, not just among college students but also among young people in general. Participating in these rallies I have been struck by the prevalence of the elderly and the lack of the young. In general I am not a believer in conspiracy theories but the swiftness of the pro-Hamas demonstrations indicates to me that there was substantial outside financial and organizational support.
The folks who paid got what they wanted and convinced the pro-Palestine movement in the US to not vote. Plus they got the bonus of getting a bunch of Hamas supporters harassed by Trump
The (former) campus activists claim that college students are joining No Kings! demonstrations, but honestly, I'm not seeing the turnout in significant numbers of young people, compared to what was going on in 2024 on campuses. At least half of the No Kings! attendees are over the age of 50 and the rest are more likely to be millennials than college-age. It would not surprise me to find out that pro-Russian groups and other sources of dark money were funding some of these protests to hurt the Democrats and return their ally Trump to power. Prove me wrong, but otherwise, these kids are cowards who protest when there's no cost, but as soon as their rights are actually threatened, they scurry away like scared rabbits.
Trump destroyed The Rule of Law. The Rule of the Jungle now stands supreme. Campus protestors understand. They obey. It is all so Machiavellian.
Not Machiavellian, Melian. The Melian dialogue is the original 'Might makes Right' statement. But the whole idea of a protest is to confront tyranny, not surrender when it gets so hard they might miss their coffee with the girls that afternoon. I believe that the whole 'no roughhousing' playtime rules have created a generation of kids who flinch and put their head under the pillows every time they don't get the result they want. Thgis suits dictators well. Thanks, Teachers' Union.
It always amazes (and disgusts) me when "student protesters" and other naive, blinders-on protesters, come out in force against the people who are closest to their views, screaming and screeching that they're impure. Then, after they've done their best to ensure the election of the people who are most antithetical to their views, they suddenly go silent.
I was a student at Columbia in the 1970s, at the tail end of the anti-war protests of the '60s (when my brother was active in all the anti-war groups there, like YAWF (Youth Against War and Facism) and SDS (Students for a Democratic Society), and that generation, too, opposed the most decent but imperfect leaders and then griped when their most avowed enemies won. My brother was one of those Nader voters in 2000, because god forbid Al Gore should be president, when his (pathetic) wife was against rock music. So they got Dubya, who was, until Trump, the lowest and worst of all the dumb republican presidents we've had in the past 60 years.
But, oh, it wasn't their fault that Nader won. No. It was Gore's fault, because he wasn't 100% progressive enough.
So now that Trump is doing all the things that they screamed that Harris would do, and Biden was doing, they shut their little mouths and cower in their "what about my future academic career" corners.
Fuck them.
This is the saddest Bulwark comment thread I have read. Many people certain of their "rightness," while being angry and defamatory themselves.
You don't see the irony in that statement?