339 Comments
User's avatar
Kotzsu's avatar
4hEdited

>>> "Over the weekend, ProPublica reported the identities of the two agents who shot Alex Pretti. Both are longtime veterans of Customs and Border Patrol, not new recruits. The gung-ho, low-constraint border enforcement culture of that agency has now been deployed into America’s streets."

This is why reform is impossible. Abolishment is a moral necessity. The infection is deep; it is cultural and ethical gangrene. We must amputate before all of society has sepsis.

Luke's avatar

I spent 10 years in uniform as a naval aviator, another 14 years as an advisor at the service chief level. When you have a bad unit, you erase it. Transfer everyone out, prosecute the criminals, get rid of the logos, get rid of the names. Make it shameful, disgraceful, embarrassing. Make it a lesson learned - accountably.

We need humane and lawful border patrol. We must have a humane and fair process if we are going to let people in this country. It can not be done by people who will shoot a nurse in the back. They belong to prison, so does their chain of command.

mgnt's avatar

At some point, there is no way to fix a bad organizational culture. It will reinforce itself at some point. Decent humans leave because they will not tolerate being part of the organization. Everyone remaining perpetuates the problems, and will re-create the culture if allowed to do so. Law enforcement is necessary, but law enforcement agencies that answer only to themselves will always be corrupt.

James Byham's avatar

It's very sad for people like you who are military or civilian police who are professional and want to do a good job.

V J's avatar

at least split them up, seems logical. Thanks for being so open about that Luke.

TomD's avatar

I agree with that, with the asterisk that the Right will add it to the "replacement theory/open border etc. farrago. "They oppose enforcing immigration and customs laws."

rlritt's avatar

Thank you. These people are loyal only to Trump, and if we are not vigilant he will use them to stay in power and turn the US into a true dictatorship.

OJVV's avatar

For posterity, let's call them out: The murder Border Patrol agent Jesus Ochoa and the murderer Customs and Border Protection officer Raymundo Gutierrez.

Geoff Anderson's avatar

the Border Patrol has a long history of being pretty awful. Behind the Bastards did a series of podcasts on its 100+ years of terrible actions, highly recommend checking them out.

JF's avatar

And maybe I’m a naive infant, but both men who shot Pretti have Hispanic names. I have a lot to learn. My sense of righteousness is scrambled.

Richard Kane's avatar

They think that since they do their master's bidding against their own people that they'll be considered the "good ones". They're too stupid to realize that when they've disposed of the old enemy, they'll become the new enemy.

Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Many second generation Mexican Americans have a very hostile attitude toward 'illegals'. It's an attitude that shocked me when I was working in Salt Lake. Part of it seemed to be generated by divergent attitudes about Domestic Violence, especially in 2nd Gen women.

JF's avatar

That falls beneath the umbrella that many Hispanic migrants are socially conservative because of the dominance of Catholicism in their origins. I do think that Democrats assumed the new arrivals automatically veered left; wrong.

Richard Kane's avatar

I can't speak of other religions but it seems as though Christianity grooms its followers to willfully accept authoritarianism, etc. Some actually try to follow Christ's teachings but too many of the Christian sects have turned their backs on Jesus and his teachings. They don't want that "librul woke shit" in their churches. As Gandhi so perfectly stated, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Male authority. My favorite theological precept, when men define God as male, males are gods.

JF's avatar

Totally agree with this. And I do think it applies across many religions. “Religion”gets perverted to “power” in a nanosecond, historically speaking.

Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

I got the sense it had more to do with what was legally prohibited in the US as opposed to Mexico. In general the Catholic immigrants felt their women and children were safer in the US. Salt Lake to this day is a blue city with more Catholics than Mormons. The LDS have moved to the suburbs between Salt Lake and Provo.

JF's avatar

My quick check says that LDS is just under 50% in SLC, while Catholics make up a minority. But that still came as a surprise to me.

rlritt's avatar

A majority of hispanic men voted for Trump. They have always loved the "strong man leader" .

Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

That's true, but Mexico did vote for a woman as president before the US. I think that says more about the US level of misogyny that it does anything else....or the power women now have in family dynamics in the US and that certain male cultures don't particularly like it.

JF's avatar

This fact is causing me a good bit of uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. When I protest, it’s against fascism. But there’s an overlay of protecting the very people who delivered Trump to us. I am quite angry about that. And unsure how to express it.

James Byham's avatar

Very wrong and clueless.

JF's avatar

Sounds plausible. Maybe a version of Stockholm Syndrome.

Duane Pierson's avatar

Yes, Hitler purged the Brownshirts.

Andrea Gold's avatar

There were Jews who helped round up other Jews for the concentration camps. Some things normal people will never understand.

JF's avatar

And there were Africans who sold other Africans to slave traders. I guess there is a list of similarities in history. I find myself wondering if that’s a male trait more than female; hard to know, since males usually have the power.

James Byham's avatar

Goons come in all colors

Jeri in Tx's avatar

It's the ticket they bought to get in with a white society.

JF's avatar

I think you are right. On some level we all do some version of it. I “trauma fawn” on males all the time. It translates to “please don’t hurt me”.

joeinMN's avatar

Psychologically speaking, there's plenty of folks with self-hatred that drives them to go after people of their own demographic, whether that be racially, religiously, or sexual identity. They can't wash off the obvious so they try to erase reminders of it.

JF's avatar

This whole Trump era is a massive toxic psychological stew. Probably the same as every other authoritarian movement in history, but it feels novel on an individual basis. The speed has certainly caused whiplash.

joeinMN's avatar

Sadly, the psychological damage is not just that of these policy-makers and agents, but the significant trauma that is being inflicted. Imagine Liam Ramos ... and extend that to his whole school, as four other students from that school have been disappeared by ICE. Extend that any children in Minnesota and throughout the country who are asking their parents who is safe? No longer can you teach your children that if they are lost to find a policeman ... how would they know who is or isn't trustworthy? We're going to be treating more people with PTSD experienced at the hands of our own government than the generation of service veterans damaged by the war on terror.

JF's avatar

The chain response to trauma is true. I feel devastated, even though my daily life is so far unchanged, except for regular protests.

rlritt's avatar
42mEdited

The worst fascist enforcers have a grim history in South America. The terrible torture and murder of 10s of thousands of men, woman and children by their uniformed soldiers.

JF's avatar

An uncomfortable reminder. And look how those places thrive now - not. But I truly think Stephen Miller et al would choose to suffer themselves as long as the rest of us are suffering more.

V J's avatar

the other day asshole trump casually mentioned that perhaps as many

as fifty percent may be he used the word latino , maybe, course what

he says need to be taken with a grain of salt. right ?

Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Same thing with Renee Good's killer. Ross also did an stint in CBP before switching to ICE. If these guys represent CBP leadership there is no changing the culture. The sadism and lawlessness have been trained into, and allowed to flourish through decades of abuses at the border...on browns and blacks. The attacks on whites most likely comes from being held accountable to a very different standard.

Miles vel Day's avatar

There is no reason whatsoever to talk about “abolishing” an agency unless there is public support for doing so. Right now that means ICE and nobody else.

Do I even need to explain how it’s political malpractice for Democrats to uniformly oppose something called “border control”?

In a campaign, you can just mutter a bunch of platitudes about a “strong border,” say you want “reform,” and then go in and totally clear house. You don’t need people to check a permission box in the voting booth to do that. You just have to win.

Why are liberals obsessed with hard pushes on messaging aimed at people who already hate President Trump?

Kotzsu's avatar
2hEdited

>>> "Do I even need to explain how it’s political malpractice for Democrats to uniformly oppose something called “border control”?"

Who said that? I didn't say that.

>>> "In a campaign, you can just mutter a bunch of platitudes about a “strong border,” say you want “reform,” and then go in and totally clear house. You don’t need people to check a permission box in the voting booth to do that. You just have to win."

Sure. But what is meaningfully different between "totally clear house" as you write and "abolishment" as I write? Or are you mainly focused on the semantics of possible political messaging? If so, then it sounds like we agree on the underlying issue -- i.e. the moral irredeemability of the agencies, used as they are now and formatted as they currently are now. As far as the messaging, to be fair, I think we actually agree. However the Dems want to package it to get it done, so long as they get it done -- cool.

Miles vel Day's avatar

The difference is that when people hear “abolish” they they don’t hear “make a more functional agency,” they hear “don’t have people do that thing anymore.” Did we learn nothing from abolish the police? It’s essential people believe Dems will enforce the border.

It’s about semantics and not policy, 100%. I would accept pretty much any level of administrative dismantling, as long as the work ends up being done by somebody. I don’t oppose the idea of “abolition” but the word itself is something of a third rail.

TomD's avatar

Miller has ordered them to be more aggressive and assured them they have complete and total immunity. Not a defense, but did these guys shoot anyone while they worked under Biden or Obama?

V J's avatar
2hEdited

I clicked on all the ' red letters' in this article, a lot in there about both

agencies, CBP and ICE, how over the years they have devolved. In St. Paul the

other morning an agent, I think from CBP was found passed out, covered in

throw-up ( a better word ) he got ticketed for a DWI, which is worse than a DUI in MN

but the article said, he may be back on the job, it was in Bring me the news, MN

at times one has to click on MN after opening the website, lot of daily updates.

this was for JF and others

Steven Insertname's avatar

The Zimbardo Prison Study at Stanford seems relevant here.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/zimbardo.html

Ashley's avatar
4hEdited

We are absolutely going to need all hands on deck to prevent Trump was stealing the midterms.

Remember, it’s always projection and confession with him, so everything he has said about the Democrats is because he fully intends to do it himself.

So the Democrats better be ready to play hardball over the DHS funding in the next two weeks. Period.

Kotzsu's avatar
3hEdited

Folks should seriously look into how to work as a poll worker. It's a long day, it can be both equally parts exciting and extremely boring, but it is also extremely rewarding. Get to know your neighbors. Do a service for the country.

My wife and I have been working elections for years. We wind up in different locations because we go where needed. The trading of our own separate battle stories at the end of the day long after polls close and we've closed down locations is one of my favorite election rituals.

Paul K. Ogden's avatar

If they steal the election, it will be after Election Day. Sorry to say the work done on Election Day won't matter much.

Mike Lew's avatar

That's my thinking, too. Just cry fraud. Much easier than deploying goons on every blue precinct.

James Byham's avatar

And then there is widdle mikey, I can't imagine him seating democratic winners. There will be irregularities to be investigated. 🙄🌊

Steve Spillette's avatar

This will sound somewhat insanely conspiratorial, but I'm concerned that the election theft will happen in Republican-controlled states well before November. Given the "supporting terrorists" and similar language about Democrats that we've heard Republicans use, could there be a push for such states to disallow Democrats from electoral eligibility? Trump asked for redistricting, and several Republican states hopped to it. If TX and a couple other states did this, it would be enough for the R's to keep congressional control.

Sumeeta's avatar

There are a lot of points at which things could go wrong; the more of those points that are staffed by honest and conscientious people, the better.

Mike Lew's avatar

Commercial time...

If you have the availability, please contact your local election board and volunteer to be a poll worker. We need lots and lots of good people to make sure everything is fair and honest!

Paul K. Ogden's avatar

They will steal the election AFTER election day. People should be more worried about the counting and certification of the vote. If there is a theft, that's where it will take place.

Richard Kane's avatar

Exactly! The cheating will happen out of sight.

Lynn  Bentson's avatar

Eight states and Washington, D.C., allow all elections to be conducted entirely by mail: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington state.

source National council of state legislatures

So we know that theses states will have the ballots seized and 'recounted " or be ordered to re-do elections in person (which we in OR at least havent done in many ears )

Mike Lew's avatar

I'm ready for a fight at my precinct!

Of course it's easy for me to talk tough, my precinct is as boring as it gets.

Ashley's avatar

I’m ready, too, but also super boring precinct!

Andrea Gold's avatar

I already took time off of work so I can work polls. I live in Las Vegas, NV. We are one of the cities he’s going to try and intimidate the vote. Sucks to use my vacation time for something that doesn’t involve margaritas, but I just can’t do nothing while The Constitution is being broken.

ScottG's avatar

My hope is that maybe, perhaps, the Dems in the Senate are waking up to the fact that this isn't "business as usual". Trump already tried to steal one election. Stop acting as if it's 2006.

Commenters on The Bulwark have been talking about this for a year regarding ICE and election interference; how is it that folks in power are only now thinking about this?

Ashley's avatar

A question my bestie and I ask text each other AT LEAST 3 times a week!! They are either too stupid to govern or they are complicit….or both. It is way past time to replace a lot of Democrats in power, too.

Macfly163's avatar

Ashley, never miss an opportunity to add a descriptor or two, such as serial rapist or convicted felon or whatever you can think, which judging by your discussion I'm sure you can, when writing about Orange Tanline.

Ashley's avatar

Such a good reminder!! I can’t believe I only referred to him by his name today. 🙈🙈

James Byham's avatar

You mean Donald " romper room " trumper .

Tim Coffey's avatar

"DeSantis, for readers who might be too young to remember, is a politician who was once thought of as the Next Big Thing in Republican politics, before Trump trampled him like a parade of elephants in the 2024 GOP presidential primary. Since then, DeSantis has receded from the political consciousness, leapfrogged in the 2028 conventional-wisdom sweepstakes by figures like JD Vance and Marco Rubio. But he has something Rubio and Vance lack: Unlike them, he isn’t lashed to the wheel of the current administration. If Trump keeps floundering around and shedding support, guys like DeSantis might smell opportunity—the sort of opportunity that could incentivize them to start encouraging the party to finally move beyond the era of The Donald."

Just wait until measles runs amok down in Florida and kids start dropping dead because that's coming, all in the name of "freedom". And besides, the base didn't want Ron. They wanted Trump and the insanity, cruelty, and transgression.

Kotzsu's avatar
3hEdited

Also, as a resident Bulwark Florida man around here, the Desantises (Both Ron and Casey) are wrapped up in an absolutely fubarred legal and financial scandal where they stole medicaid reimbursement money, laundered it through Casey DeSantis's Hope Florida slush fund, and spent it on their political projects, then appointed the director of their political committees as Attorney General to prevent state investigations into the fraud.

The moment the state gets an ethical Attorney General, both Ron and Casey should be charged with the various crimes they seem to have committed.

There's also no love lost between Trump and Ron. If Ron gets out over his skis in Florida criticizing Trump, Bondi will send the sycophantic Feds after Ron and Casey. Ron is a bully, and like most bullies, Ron is also an absolute coward, so my guess is he will be extremely muted as the Trumpists point to the sword of Damacles that Ron and Casey helpfully have suspended above their own heads.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article313630394.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article312367971.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article312510797.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article314501896.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article311619075.html

Tim Coffey's avatar

I've read about this through Rick Wilson and I'm waiting for the law to visit Ron and Casey. To be honest, though, I'm not holding my breath.

The sad part about this is my wife and I used to love going to Sarasota once a year for a week, but given all the corruption and insanity, we've lost all desire to go. The state has lost its moral bearings.

Kotzsu's avatar

Yeah, and as a resident of Florida, it is enraging that the opposition party is so scattered and incompetent that they cannot even put together a winning message with this sort of scandal in their quiver.

Tim Coffey's avatar

Maybe David Jolly has a shot to win this year?

V J's avatar

was myself invited to visit Florida in 2007 for a ' maybe' cushy stay, for

two + months, guess at that time besides the dewpoint/humidity

I turned it down flat. I had the time, the money and some fairly good companionship

chances, truth be told, I thought is was corrupt at that point, some areas dangerous, others run amok with crime, also the racism.

Tim Coffey's avatar

A few years back, we stayed in Naples for a week and one day and we took a drive near Rick Scott's place. The opulence of the neighborhood was something to behold, and the thought that kept crossing my mind is these people will do *anything* to hold onto living like this, even if it means reelecting an insurrectionist pedophile.

JF's avatar

Florida wouldn’t be Florida if the local pols weren’t skimming off federal healthcare dollars. Ask Rick Scott.

TomD's avatar

Mr. "I take the 5th."

JF's avatar

That’s the MAGA/GOP motto.

jpg's avatar

Sounds to me like a deliberate set of actions to try to win over the MAGA faithful 🤣

Daphne McHugh's avatar

Tim I read something today that I have not been able to verify suggesting that Rubio is revealed by something in the Epstein files to have been one of the parties initiating the Steele Dossier. Good of course be utter bs, but maybe de Santis started this rumour. These people are all inept and conniving, but Trump is the only one who is, up to this point, able to con a large chunk of the population.

Tim Coffey's avatar

The GOP is a nest of vipers. And I personally believe Ron with get away with his corruption. After all, Rick Scott did. In the GOP, the only sin is lack of party loyalty.

Kate Fall's avatar

Yeah, I have a nitpick with "Trump trampled him ... in the primary." Trump didn't bother to show up for the primary. Didn't even waste his time. The voters trampled DeSantis because they wanted Trump and DeSantis wasn't Trump. Something for Vance to keep in mind. And everyone really: nobody wants imitation rapists, they want real rapists. They have imitation rapists at home. Trump, on the other hand, has street cred.

Tim Coffey's avatar

Not only something for Vance to keep in mind, but every prospective GOP candidate. I think it'll come down to who's willing to be the biggest moral degenerate.

JF's avatar
4hEdited

I fear I am losing my capacity to be shocked by Trump’s grift. When I read about the UAE pouring money into the Trump family crypto, it felt very routine. I experienced nothing at all. I am a bit more shocked by Trump suing our own IRS for a billion; that got my attention.

Should we all send paper-check tax payments, written out directly to DJT?

RichinPhoenix's avatar

That’s 10 billion, but I get that when the grift crosses the billion mark we are making Ponzi look like an amateur.

JF's avatar

OMG you’re right! A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it’s more than pocket change.

Tim Coffey's avatar

Just wait until our most advanced AI chips end up in the hands of the Chinese and the Russians.

Steven Insertname's avatar

Rest assured, they're in the mail already!

OJVV's avatar
3hEdited

Tim, they paid EXTRA to DJT for those chips, so...you know, once we (meaning non-Bulwark members) get the Donald J Trump Tariff Bonus Checks we'll all be grateful they have those AI Chips!

Tim Coffey's avatar

The one good thing about all of this is the GOP can no longer bear the mantle of being the "national security" party. This entire fucking administration is a living, breathing example of an insider threat who is selling out the national security for a buck. Whether the Democrats can capitalize on this remains to be seen. But when little Marco runs for POTUS in a couple of years, I hope to God someone stuffs that poltroon in a locker with substantial vigor and force.

OJVV's avatar

Tim that assumes that folks are savvy enough to understand what's actually happening or care what is happening. I think what we're learning here is that folks are willing to let in authoritarianism if they think it is in THEIR best interest, with their best interest not extending much farther than their own navel. Meaning, they'll welcome Weyland-Yutani as their overlords just so long as their day-to-day life is seemingly "normal".

Tim Coffey's avatar

This assumes that there won't be a national security incident between now and the 2028 election. There's a non-zero chance there will be, and because not only is the administration compromised but incompetent, that non-zero probability is not insignificant. And when the previously apathetic, amoral voter gets a taste of that, they'll come around.

OJVV's avatar
1hEdited

Oh, there's incidents aplenty on the horizon: Trump declaring martial law in a pivotal swing state just ahead of an election. China invading Taiwan. Grok gaining consciousness and commandeering Starlink and Tesla vehicles. Etc. Etc.

I'm not optimistic is that, short of some national or global existential threat, any change will come provided the average suburbanite is able to live a mostly "normal" life. Consider, as a point, Russia. Your typical Russian puts on their pants and lives their day, every day. Objectively they, and everyone, would have greatly benefitted by just having them sign up for the normal world order, but they did not opt for that. Now, alas, those days are no longer an option. I think the same could happen here.

Maribeth's avatar

Why did I think that I had already heard about this shortly after it happened? Must have been some other grift or graft! 🤷‍♀️

JF's avatar

Exactly the same for me! “Old news”.

Different drummer's avatar

I just finished reading *Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead* by Frank Meeink. Wanting to know some about him in the years since the book was published, I learned something I hadn't heard before. In 2020 he testified to the House's Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties of the Committee on Oversight and Reform. He told them about how white supremacist groups actively encourage their members to get jobs in law enforcement and the military. Here's his testimony: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO02/20200929/111003/HHRG-116-GO02-Wstate-MeeinkF-20200929.pdf.

Steven Insertname's avatar

That's been long known as a problem in Portland, OR. Right wing thugs from outside the city basically run the PPD, apart from the (elected) chief, and have a hatred of the cities in Oregon, bkz they keep the state going blue at the prez and Senate levels.

During BLM, they cracked down as hard as they could on the BLM protesters, but moved gates out of the way for pro-Trump/Proud Bois/etc parades, etc.

Richard Kane's avatar

Growing up in Philadelphia we used to call their police force the Gestapo when it was run by Frank Rizzo, first as police chief, then as mayor. Those boys just loved busting heads! It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they were all Nazis at heart.

Different drummer's avatar

Have you read the book? Frank is from Philly. He's now a practicing Jew and has traveled the country for years, speaking about his experiences and spreading his love. It sounds a little dorky the way I put it, but that's truly what he does. It's amazing what he overcame, what's he done to make amends, and what a good person he is. Key to his change of heart is that he used his critical thinking skills to realize what BS his indoctrination was.

TomD's avatar

Dropped a bomb on a row house... .

Richard Kane's avatar

That was Wilson Goode as mayor but same police gestapo. trump was right on one statement, "Bad things happen in Philadelphia".

TomD's avatar

Both my parents grew up in South Philly. When I was a tyke, my grandfather took me to *Philadelphia Athletics* games.

CLR's avatar

‘Frustrating and Demoralizing’: The Measles Comeback Gets Worse… The disease is exploding in South Carolina, we’re about to lose elimination status, and RFK Jr.’s team says it’s just the “cost of doing business,”

Darwin could predict the outcome of this. Let's hope the results are confined to vaccine-deniers.

mjdlight's avatar

If you received your measles vax decades ago, please ask your doctor to Rx a lab test of your immunity titers. You can get a booster if your immunity has waned over the years.

Dave's avatar

That's a good recommendation. I skipped the test and went straight to getting a new measles+ vax

D.J. Spiny Lumpsucker's avatar

"Let's hope the results are confined to vaccine-deniers."

It's measles, FFS. It's going to infect innocent CHILDREN. A few of whom will be scarred for life and a few of whom will die. So, you're imagining the parents of unvaxed victims have some genetic trait such that we can write off those deaths as natural selection?

SMH.

Kate Fall's avatar

Measles is one of the most contagious diseases in the world. It took teams of professionals working around the clock to keep it in check: all gone now. Also, measles causes immune amnesia to other diseases:

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/inside-immune-amnesia

There are many reasons we targeted measles and polio for eradication. These diseases are incredibly dangerous.

Kate Fall's avatar

"Children’s Health Defense (CHD): This anti-vaccine nonprofit, formerly led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., partnered with local activists to raise over $16,000 via online fundraisers to provide "essential vitamins and supplements" like cod liver oil and Vitamin A to measles patients in West Texas."

RFK Jr. makes money when kids die of measles, and yet John Roberts wanted this for us enough to break the law repeatedly.

Samuel L. Scheib's avatar

"Although DHS’s post casually accuses the woman of committing multiple felonies, they eventually just decided to drop her off without further incident—an odd move, if those felonies actually occurred" EQUALS "these dangerous narco-terrorists were going to kill 24,000 Americans so we blew up their boat and then we picked two of them out of the water and sent them home." These people...

V J's avatar

they must make shit up. the media I got it from first was a small city newspaper

near where happened. MankatoFreePress, which is NOT FREE, other sites quickly added the video. they got some points wrong at first, but Kristol Egger et al got it right in this article

the video is quick and I love what she said , get your ------ hands off me. I believe they

knew about her, she is , I think , a local interpreter and all around helper, a trailer park

in that town. so, in my opinion, targeted and to frighten her. was purposeful.

the detail one or two articles said like the sheriff pulled them over, which was not true.

my reaction, was cynical that day, was she had a friend in a high place, I have trouble

believing anything any longer.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

There's a high probability that ICE will be surging in Springfield, Ohio, population 60,000. The Temporary Protection Status for 15,000 Haitians living there will expire, midnight February 3. There have been multiple talks between Ohio state government officials, including Governor Michael DeWine, and federal government officials.

This isn't speculation or guesswork. Timothy Snyder wrote a long article about this potential surge in substack, 2 days ago.

https://open.substack.com/pub/snyder/p/ethnic-cleansing-in-ohio?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=9qk0x

A city of 60,000 people cannot absorb the amount of chaos and social entropy that may be happening this week. They don't have the infrastructure of a large metropolitan area.

So far, Springfield is not receiving much news coverage, yet. I hope it doesn't come down to that. Springfield's food bank is called, Second Harvest. You can find them online. They are a very efficient and very organized food bank. I have visited there.

Mike Lew's avatar

It's heartbreaking. Springfield, OH was dying until the immigrants revitalized the town. A town will go back to the metaphorical hospice ward, because hatred feels so good.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

It feels odd to put a "like" on your comment, but you have your finger right on the truth of the matter. It's a sad truth. I live close by and have friends that live close by.

Mike Lew's avatar

I think it's fine to "like" someone saying an awful situation is awful. 😀

dcicero's avatar

And what do those friends have to say about this? Still want to vote MAGA so that this stuff continues?

I was talking to a buddy of mine over the weekend, a veteran. He uses the VA quite a lot. He said, now, the waiting rooms over at the VA are REALLY quiet. No one says anything. People aren't chatty like they were. No red hats. He said he thinks it's because EVERYONE there has been taken care of by a guy like Alex Pretti. When no one else would help, the VA doctors and nurses helped. And the guy they voted for sent an armed mob into an American city and murdered one of those people. They ain't happy. And they're not making excuses for him.

Steven Insertname's avatar

Cool, but will they keep voting for him and his minions?

Mike Lew's avatar

Don't worry, the sanctity of girls' sports will re-emerge as a wedge issue. Or something else will be found. MAGA is really good at keeping their guys on their side.

TomD's avatar

I have a solution for that problem. We have learned that gender is different than sex. Why not specify that what are now designated as women's leagues and competitions are organized according to sex, not gender? I would also encourage that as many sports as possible be come-one-come all. (My wife and I played co-ed softball and it was flat out a blast.)

dcicero's avatar

I got the sense the answer is no.

There's a caveat, of course. Democrats can't make themselves so odious that they simply can't.

Listen to this guy. (It's short...)

https://youtu.be/00IiJjWFklU?si=gBlDeQVKEQWAqrjF

This is the guy. Listen to what he wants to hear from Democrats. You want this guy? You need to meet at least some of his needs.

Steven Insertname's avatar

Good on this guy for coming around, but I know for sure that Kamala (or Obama, or Biden) ever one time came for anyone's gun, or ever advocated for men in women's restrooms. Do these guys really believe that a "Women's'" sign on a door would stop a rapist? "I'd go in there and commit a heinous crime, but the sign says I'm not allowed!"

Please.

V J's avatar
2hEdited

hey, that just made me think, my one brother does not wear caps

( other than an occasional stocking hat ) the other brother has

dug our his older veteran caps without all the googly shiny nonsense

and this year, no sticker on his bumper... both supported the useless guy

dcicero's avatar
3hEdited

The ICE/CBP playbook will be the same wherever they go, but one thing's struck me about all this that I didn't expect. My sister lives near Minneapolis. I live near Chicago. Our experiences were the same, but she hadn't really heard any of the details of what happened here: gassing little kids in a Halloween parade, sitting outside Emergency Rooms waiting for brown people to bring in sick kids so they could nab the parents, roving groups of agents blocking traffic and banging on windows looking for nervous brown people to get on a Kavanaugh Stop, conducting "operations" inside daycare centers, etc.

For all the talk about how social media is keeping everyone up to speed on what's actually happening out there, it doesn't really seem to be happening.

So, yeah, brace for it, Springfield. They're coming. They're going to be kicking in the wrong doors because they can't read. They'll be using administrative warrants instead of judicial ones. They'll be camped out in front of schools and hospitals and churches and daycare centers and ethnic grocery stores. They'll be harassing people on the streets and at places like car washes and The Home Depot. They'll be grabbing random kids in Target and body slamming them. They'll be grabbing people, carting them around for a while and then dumping them off miles away, letting them figure out how they're going to get home. They'll be dragging people out of their cars, leaving them unlocked (or even running) and just letting other people figure out what to do with them. It's all coming. It's all perfectly legal now, too. Thanks, Ohio. You voted for this.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

I've tried to get in contact with Second Harvest, the food bank, and there's no one answering phones. They have a special message on their voicemail. It's clear that they are bracing for the worst.

Here is information related to the groups who are poised to help the Haitians this week:

G92 Springfield (Coalition of Churches)

​This is the central network coordinating "boots-on-the-ground" volunteer efforts, including rapid response training and food deliveries for families hunkering down.

​Email: advocacy@ohiog92.org (Best for rapid volunteering or coordination)

​Key Contact: Pastor Carl Ruby (Central Christian Church)

​Donation Link: G92/Central Christian Giving Page (Funds go directly to Haitian families in need).

​The Nehemiah Foundation

​They act as a central connector for Christian ministries in Springfield and manage the "Care Portal" to meet specific needs for families.

​Phone: (937) 325-6226

​Email: info@nehemiahfoundation.org

​Address: 102 West High Street, 3rd Floor, Springfield, OH 45502

​Website: nehemiahfoundation.org

​Haitian Support Center & Community Help

​These centers are led by the Haitian community themselves and are primary hubs for social services and documentation.

​Phone: (937) 408-6194 or (937) 408-8251

​Email: contact@haitiansupportcenter.org or haitianhelpcenterspringfield@gmail.com

​Address: 1530 S Yellow Springs St, Springfield, OH 45506

​President: Pastor Viles Dorsainvil

​St. Vincent de Paul (Springfield District)

​Focused on emergency financial assistance, food, and helping children of Haitian immigrants obtain U.S. passports/documentation.

​Phone: (937) 322-0838 or (937) 325-8880

​Email: svdp@svdpspfld.org

​Address: 2415 E High St, Springfield, OH 45505

​Executive Director: Casey Rollins

​The AMOS Project

​They are organizing the "Know Your Rights" trainings and community safety meetings at local churches like Zion Hill Baptist.

​Phone: (513) 505-1960

​Email: info.amosproject@gmail.com

​Website: amosprojectohio.org

​Urgent Resources

​If you or someone you know needs to report ICE activity or needs immediate legal guidance:

​Ohio Immigrant Alliance Hotline: (419) 777-4357

​The "Whistle Packets": Being distributed by community leaders at St. John Missionary Baptist Church to help neighbors document and report activity safely.

V J's avatar

Quite a few years ago I had heard some negativity about 2nd Harvest,

not maltreatment, but privacy. Now that was in 2006-2008 maybe

they have cleaned up their act. MN, Willmar

V J's avatar

I had heard all of that around Chicago, all of it. Mn resident

Kotzsu's avatar

Both Timothy Snyder and Thomas Zimmer have referred to it as an ethnic cleansing attempt. It's an act of fascist, genocidal white supremacy.

Not lost on many folks: they will be starting this attack on the Haitian community in Springfield to coincide with the start of Black History month. ffs.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

The fact that this city is so small and will be overrun by thugs is nauseating. The racial nature of this action cannot be overstated.

Sheri Smith's avatar

Pretty sure that’s why they targeted Minneapolis too - to target the Somali immigrant and Somali-American community.

Jon Haitch's avatar

Lev Parnas keeps saying Pay no attention to what they say, watch what they do. I am totally unsurprised by ICE's "new" behavior.

Carol S.'s avatar

Ironically, Trump apologists have used the mantra "Pay no attention to what he says; just watch what he does," meaning that he says crazy things all the time, but his policies are awesome.

Of course, the truth is that when Trump and his allies promise something good, it's a lie; when they threaten something bad, they mean it.

Steven Insertname's avatar

"Handsome is as handsome does." as the Hobbits say.

TomD's avatar
3hEdited

Re: World Liberty Financial. WLF's stablecoin, USD1, is tiny by comparison to others, yet it was chosen as the vehicle for UAE sovereign wealth fund MGX to purchase a $2 billion stake in Binance. As a result, the Trump family, Witkoff, and, as we now see, at least one UAE actor, earn about 4% on the US dollars put on deposit to close the deal*. That's $80 million per year until and unless the stablecoins are redeemed. And, of course, Chengpeng Zhao, a principal owner of Binance, got a Trump pardon, for an offense which would have meant 15 years in the pen. To think that during Trump1 we were talking about "stay to play" as the height of corruption.

*What makes stablecoin stable

JF's avatar

This shows we are up against a global enterprise of massive corruption. The oligarchs are trans-national. Stateless.

TomD's avatar

Yep. Crypto is a radical libertarian play. They want to destroy fiat currencies and the governments that issue them.

Mike Lew's avatar

I "love" how crypto is good, and government issued currencies are "bad." How crypto fixes the problems of fiat currency elude me.

TomD's avatar

The sympathetic view is that governments can manipulate the value of their fiat currencies via monetary policy. Crypto was supposed to fix that.

Right now, the advantage in using crypto, including stablecoin, is avoiding regulatory red tape. Of course a lot of the tape regards preventing money laundering and other crimes.

Mike Lew's avatar

The only reasons I can see for crypto are: a medium to exchange currencies, and iillegal transactions. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Steven Insertname's avatar

ALL crypto is a ponzi scheme. All of it.

Corinne Mitchell's avatar

We need another reply to a comment in addition to 'like'. I'm thinking 'WTF' would be a pretty good choice.

Richard Kane's avatar

I vote yes for a WTF option!

TomD's avatar

Here's the page from Etherscan depicting USD1's Blockchain. Noting that there are a mere hundred or so transactions over a little over a year, with many tiny transactions and several mind-bogglingly large ones... .

https://etherscan.io/token/0xC824Bf014539F6bdE6b81ABAaca0D626C2AC5985

julia dream's avatar

I want to paraphrase a line from Peter Jackson's "The Two Towers," spoken by King Theoden facing the Uruk Hai at Helm's Deep: "What can men do against such reckless wealth?" From the WaPo front page this morning: "The Democratic Party on the national level has a mere fraction of what Republicans have heading into the 2026 midterms."

MoosesMom's avatar

Does it help to realize that the Republicans spent $2.4M in Saturday night's race and LOST to the Democrat who spent only $200K in Texas' State Senate District 9? trump won that district by +15 in 2024, while the Democrat Saturday night won by +16.

Money isn't always the end-all, be-all. A disadvantage for certain, but not always the deciding factor.

julia dream's avatar

I'll take hope anywhere I can get it. :)

Keith Wresch's avatar

Time for Democrats to start cutting adds saying it is the billionaires that supported Epstein who are now funding the Republican party.

Mike Lew's avatar

Look at all the Democratic money and ad buys in 2024. Just throwing money at the same consultants and TV ad buys doesn't guarantee wins.

JF's avatar

That is a source of distress to me, as my email and text apps are overwhelmed with requests for campaign money. It hammers home to me, that money is my voice, and it isn’t much compared to the tech bro oligarchs.

dcicero's avatar
3hEdited

Re: "...ProPublica reported the identities of the two agents who shot Alex Pretti."

Okay. So what? (And I sure hope they got this right because otherwise there'll be hell to pay, and rightly so.)

My prediction is that absolutely nothing is going to happen to these two clowns, just like nothing's going to happen to Jonathan Ross. None of them will ever see the inside of a courthouse, let alone a prison.

But here's the thing for me. Until now, the notion's been that all this happened because these guys are completely untrained and start from a baseline of ignorance and stupidity that would disqualify them from any real law enforcement job.

That doesn't appear to be the case. They're not rookies. So how does that change what happens here? You can't credibly say they didn't know the mission or understand their roles or were unfamiliar with agency policies. It'd be hard to make the case that they got scared and this was all just a tragic error by inexperienced officers put in a very challenging environment, right?

So what's their play now? I'm guessing it's just delay and obstruction and lies, but can that work?

Holmes's avatar

This was my takeaway too, but from the other side. These clearly aren't rookie "mistakes", they are saying the quiet parts out loud with lethal force. So what do we do? Is there even a chance we win in '28 by a large enough margin to even be able to tackle the problem of armed federal agents who hate the people they are supposed to protect and serve? Is there a willingness to acknowledge it?

dcicero's avatar

I would hope so, but who knows.

I do think just a few, simple changes could make a big difference. No masks. Big thing there. Body cameras. Name tags. Judicial warrants. Requirement that there be a articulable reason to stop and detain someone. Maybe some restrictions on where CBP people can work: customs houses, within 25 miles of an international border, etc.

And then every one of them has to sign off on some document saying they understand the rules. When one of them violates a rule, there are consequences of some kind.

No more roving bands of armed, masked Federal agent running around pepper spraying people, threatening them, killing them and getting away with it.

That guy that was recorded saying, "If you raise your voice, I will erase your voice." That sounds pretty threatening to me. What happened to him? My guess: nothing. (Maybe they bought him a cake at his "Agent of the Month" ceremony, but who knows?)

Holmes's avatar

I think those are some great restrictions. I'd also like to see some stricter limitations (with teeth) on how they can interact with people while doing their jobs. Like, if an IRS agent sees someone jaywalking while they're on their way to an audit, they can't whip out a gun and cuffs. Theoretically ICE and CBP are their to apprehend "criminal illegal aliens". Yet they mostly seem to be doing a lot of harassment of locals citizens. That should be something that gets them fired and placed on some sort of LEO blacklist.

Federal agents shouldn't be treating citizens (or anyone domestic) worse than our soldiers were treating people in Iraq or Afghanistan, but here we are. They are acting like a belligerent occupying force in conquered turf.

V J's avatar

maybe get a six suspension and a little money for their valor. Now, personally I

have faith that Minn will go after Ross and these other two, as well. Still believe that

no matter how long it takes or where they hide or lie low.

Patrick | Complex Simplicity's avatar

If you think the “corrupt businessman” trope is the whole story, you’re reading the wrong scripture. This is the scaffolding of a private state being bolted together in real time, while the country argues about the color of the bolts.

History never pretended the Praetorian Guard existed to protect Rome. It existed to protect the money, to protect the patronage, to protect the continuity of the purse. The uniforms are different now. The logic is identical. When you start hearing talk of “security” used as a solvent for elections, when intelligence machinery gets pointed inward like a spear, you’re not watching policy. You’re watching the future being pawned off, one crisis at a time, for the comfort of men who need the republic weak enough to own.

This is how “order” gets manufactured. First you inflate the threat. Then you deputize the appetite. Then you build a culture around enforcement that treats restraint as weakness and brutality as virtue. You don’t need jackboots when you can get volunteers. You don’t need a coup when you can get a bureaucracy to do it with a smile and a pension.

While the chattering class hyperventilates over special elections and blue “waves,” the executive wing is busy wiring a psychological detonator into the national nervous system. The real weapon is not a bill. It’s a story. A forced Muduro narrative. A televised “confession” squeezed out of a broken strongman, staged as proof, packaged as destiny. Not because it’s true, but because it’s usable. A Reichstag Fire for the algorithm age. A moral oxygen tank for every dormant fanatic who’s been waiting for permission to feel righteous while doing evil.

Once you sell people “evidence” that the past was stolen, you don’t just rewrite history. You weaponize the future. You teach the faithful to view the next election not as a civic process, but as a battlefield. You turn ballots into targets. You turn neighbors into traitors. You turn “democracy” into a word that means nothing except whatever the strongman needs it to mean that week.

That’s the synthesis we’re watching: an armed enforcement culture fused to a hallucinated narrative of betrayal. When fabricated proof collides with real weapons and institutional cover, the consequences aren’t “unrest.” They’re terminal. This is not a shift in governance. It’s mobilization. It’s civil bloodshed laundered through official channels, sanctified by badges, and fed by men who traded their oath for a cult and call it patriotism.

The cliff isn’t coming. We drove off it a while ago. What’s ahead isn’t a road. It’s a thresher, humming patiently in the dark, waiting for the next manufactured emergency to feed it.

ReadItAll's avatar

Your subtitle is wrong. It implies it is somehow not Trump making these decisions. "cannot tame the monster he made" suggests he is trying to tame the monster. He isn't.

Republicans aren't either, because they are in lockstep with those decisions. They figure it is the only way they will stay in power now. They all need ICE to scare the voters.

Stop pussy footing around what is clearly forming right in front of you. Deal with it directly.

Dan Leithauser's avatar

Two CBP Agents Identified in Alex Pretti Shooting

https://www.propublica.org/article/alex-pretti-shooting-cbp-agents-identified-jesus-ochoa-raymundo-gutierrez

I am sure more background info will be dug up regarding these "agent's" past actions. I would bet that there may be at least one incident that would make them, and probably many more, unsuited to the roles they are currently playing. Any grand jury viewing video and drawn a frame by frame analysis would not hesitate to recommend indictments in the Good and Pretti cases.

It is my sincere wish to see Miller, Bovino, Bondi, Patel, Homan, and Noem (others!) squirm in a court of law under oath. After testifying under oath to a couple of televised congressional committees.

Steven Insertname's avatar

Nothing will happen to any of them in this country. This will require Hague/Nuremberg level trials.

TomD's avatar

Re: AUSAs WANTED: I read this morning that JAG officers are now being assigned to serve as federal, state and local prosecutors. Unlike the civilian version, they are subject to the UCMJ and may not resign in protest. Neither can they decline a direct order regarding their work.

James Richardson's avatar

I wonder where Lindsey Graham stands on this.

Richard Kane's avatar

Probably bent over, licking trump's boots.

James Richardson's avatar

You're right. I guess this wouldn't faze him at all without McCain to prop him up.

TomD's avatar

Apparently, it's been done before on a very limited basis, and only working on cases with a military angle. E.g. Offenses by service people in towns with military bases.

steve robertshaw's avatar

James, you forgot the /s symbol at the end!

Richard Kane's avatar

They can ignore an order that violates the law or an attorney's code of ethics. Of course they will be illegally punished accordingly.

TomD's avatar

Do you know the part about attorney ethics to be fact? I wondered about that.

Paul K. Ogden's avatar

I'm an attorney and no way can an attorney ever be obligated to violate the ethics rules that govern the profession. You can get in big trouble for violating ethics rules and my employer ordering me to violate those rules is not a defense. Nor could they bar you from resigning.

TomD's avatar
3hEdited

So when it comes to JAGS, orders to act unethically are practically speaking the same as illegal orders....