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Don Gates's avatar

The main reason I stopped listening to Pod Save America was they kicked Tim Miller out, but they also kind of irritate me. Vietor is saying what he would advise Biden to do given his problems in places like Dearborn is try to secure a cease fire in Gaza no matter what. As if things could possibly be that simple. Try applying that logic to somewhere like Ukraine, and you end up with Ukraine annexed into Russia. You have an unconditional ceasefire, and there is no resolution to the problem of the genocidal cult that is in control of Gaza and has shown a willingness to act on its explicit goals of eliminating Israel and any other Jews. Not to mention the hostages, almost all of whom are probably dead by now anyway, and if alive, suffering god only knows what at the hands of these barbarians.

The people in the group sound brainwashed. Repeatedly referring to the conflict as a genocide. If you think Joe Biden is financing genocide, don't vote for him. This is the Biden is Hitler cohort, and they're a lost cause, beyond the reach of rational argument. And if you help Trump get elected, you will reap the whirlwind, along with the rest of us.

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E2's avatar

On Israel, the thing is, there is no resolution to the problem of the genocidal cult of Hamas in what Israel is doing now, either.

I'm going to keep pointing this out: Hamas *likes* the look that Israel is giving the world right now. They have literally said they are proud and happy to see Israel killing innocent Palestinian "martyrs."

At this point a unilateral suspension of hostilities by Israel would benefit Israel (and innocent Palestinians) more than Hamas. It might also precipitate a sequence of political events that removes Netanyahu, so he is wary of anything that looks like a move off a war footing.

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Bruce Lawrence's avatar

Hamas has always used those "martyrs" as human shields and poster children for its genocidal cause. It will continue to use every Palestinian in Gaza in such ways for as long as it exists. Anyone who really cares about the future of Gazans should be rooting for Israel to finish the job against Hamas. There can never be peace as long as Hamas runs Gaza.

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E2's avatar

The last sentence is undoubtedly true. The question is, what does "finishing the job" look like? How exactly is that accomplished? Does killing more non-Hamas Gazans now make it more or less likely that Hamas is running Gaza next year?

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Bruce Lawrence's avatar

I recently heard a clip in which a Gazan responded to an Israeli attack by cursing Hamas. Gaza might be the only place in the Arab world where Hamas's popularity rating is under 50%. Hamas might be successfully hoodwinking the rest of the world, but the people of Gaza know who is responsible for their suffering. I doubt Gazans will rally behind Hamas again, no matter how much they fear Israel.

With that said, there are ways for Israel to reduce civilian deaths without submitting to a permanent ceasefire. But that would require strategic patience, which seems to be in short supply in the current Israeli government. Unfortunately, it's not clear that Netanyahu's incentives are aligned with Israel's long-term interests. Like Trump, his top priority is still staying out of jail.

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Bethany Prince's avatar

What's the tea about kicking out Tim Miller?

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Don Gates's avatar

He worked for them before he joined The Bulwark. They fired him because word got out about some work he did as a Republican operative before his employment there, and their fans found out about it and started making demands and the PSA folks caved and cut him.

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Joey Ferrari's avatar

What losers, I honestly never liked the PSA guys from the beginning.

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