1) As much as journalists have brainlessly adopted the practice of referring to casualty figures with the caveat "according to the Hamas controlled Ministry of Health", there are several problems with this idiocy:
a) It's fundamentally lazy journalism. Hamas provides Pales…
1) As much as journalists have brainlessly adopted the practice of referring to casualty figures with the caveat "according to the Hamas controlled Ministry of Health", there are several problems with this idiocy:
a) It's fundamentally lazy journalism. Hamas provides Palestinian ID numbers for every single reported death, so any dedicated journalist could verify or deny the numbers if they were so inclined. There's absolutely no excuse now that the daily numbers are much lower than at the start of the conflict;
b) There are good fundamental reasons to generally accept the reliability of such measures. I'm sure a lot of Americans think of the Palestinian territories as third-world villages, but the civilian authorities in the West Bank and Gaza have an interest in maintaining detailed and accurate death records to manage and record changes to property titles in geographically dense areas;
c) The general accuracy of the death figures have historically and currently been confirmed by independent aid agencies. Moreover, the bloody Israeli government has relied on the accuracy of these figures for years.
Let's get to your claims now:
"... even the Gaza Health Ministry claims 35,000 fatalities and the UN itself says that almost half of the 25,000 identified ones were adult men."
The UN never said that. Ever. You're just reporting Israeli propaganda.
And here's a fun fact you apparently don't appreciate, even assuming 1/2 were either men or teenaged males (meaning 13-years old +), the teenaged males would be CHILD SOLDIERS. Under international law, you can't just carpet bomb child soldiers. You get that?
But more importantly is the fact that you pulled that presumption out of your ass, more precisely, "[I]f anywhere near half were men, let alone male teenagers, it stands to reason that a hefty portion were gunmen."
Sorry what's your basis for this statement? Are you in the IDF or something? I know that Israeli troops shoot anyone that moves but that doesn't make it legal, much less proof they are militants.
The ACTUAL widely cited figures are that 70% of the deaths in Gaza involve women and children. No idea why you were gullible enough to think that Israeli propaganda was credible.
So no, 1/2 were NOT men. We're down to 10.5K deaths now.
But let's ASSUME for a moment that indeed 1/2 of the 35K Gazans killed were in fact men and teenaged BOYS, that would bring us to 17.5K deaths.
For you to assert (with absolutely no factual basis) that 15K were "Hamas gunmen" would necessarily mean that 85% of men & male children aged 13-17 years old in Gaza are Hamas militants.
Do you realize how offensive, not to mention unhinged it is to suggest that 85% of Gazans over the age of 12 are terrorists?
I'll point you to a fun example about the Israeli approach to Palestinian lives that even your Israeli apologism will have a hard time excusing.
Remember in December when the IDF murdered three shirtless, unarmed, Hebrew-speaking, white-flag-waiving, Israeli hostages over a 15 minute period as they were trying to surrender? War crime. No one has been charged or will ever be charged for openly committing multiple murders in this case.
Gee whiz, I wonder whether innocent Palestinians civilians speaking Arabic would have fared better?
Lol, since you object to bombing teenaged terrorists even though they can shoot back, I assume you object even more strongly to bombing teenagers or anybody else who *can't* shoot back.
Which is to say, civilians. Whom the IDF has been trying, with quite reasonable success, to avoid killing, but whom Hamas has deliberately put in harm's way.
Ergo, you're either a sorry naïf or a terrorist sympathizer. Big surprise there.
And where did you concoct that 85% number? Since when does "15K [Hamas gunmen]... necessarily mean that 85% of men & male children aged 13-17 years old in Gaza are Hamas militants"? There must be at least half a million Gaza males over the age of 13.
Sorry when did I say that using child soldiers isn't a war crime? Umm that's implied as it's basic knowledge.
It's so fucking weird when Israeli apologists compare Israeli conduct to that of a terrorist organization. So you think that's the valid point of comparison? On this we actually agree as both Israel & Hamas have no regard for the Geneva Conventions.
Sigh let me help you with basic math:
1) I was, for the sake of argument agreeing that 1/2 of Gazans killed were adult men or teenaged males.
2) So 1/2 of 35k = 17.5 k.
3) You asserted (pulling the figure out if your ass) that Israel has killed 15k Hamas militants, in that casualty figure.
4) 15.k out of 17.5k = 86% (rounded up).
Bro, I'm using the same ridiculously flawed numbers YOU provided to prove your dumbass racist comment is moronic. You have only yourself to blame if you think the numbers don't make sense.
Yet another limited point of agreement, I'm 100% in agreement that the numbers you provided are completely wrong and illogical.
Don't think you can just shamelessly misquote yourself to win an argument.
Anyway, I obviously don't know any more than you do exactly how many male teenagers were the child soldiers whom you think it was a war crime to bomb but evidently not to recruit for use as combatants (or human shields) in the first place.
But given the Hamas enthusiasm for the whole Hitler Youth genre, https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/hamas-summer-camp-idUKRTX3D638/, I'd modestly guess they comprised at least 5-10% of overall fatalities. After all, Gaza has a notoriously young population to siphon into military manpower; moreover, in WW2 the teenaged Waffen SS units suffered up to 60% casualty rates.
Add another 30% who were adult male terrorists, and that's closing in on 40%. Or 14,000 dead gunmen. Which, of course, nearly matches the widely cited IDF estimate.
Obviously individuals like you will dismiss it all as Zionist tricks, but why it should be inconceivable that large numbers of Hamas gunmen would in fact cluster around the tunnels, schools, mosques, hospitals and other structures long favored by the organization and therefore bombed by the IDF after it shooed most civilians away, is best known to Hamas propagandists.
You expect people to believe that, as Hamas has so often asserted, 70% of the dead were innocent women and children, and that, presumably, most of the remaining 30% were innocent adult men. In which case there were virtually no Hamas gunmen anywhere in Gaza, and the whole war was cooked up by a cabal of Zionist warmongers and Christian fundamentalist Republicans to cover Bibi Netanyahu's posterior and usher in the End Times.
Brother, you're still pulling assumptions straight out of your ass.
Who the fuck ever said that 30% of adult male casualties were all innocent? Dude, stop making up facts and worse yet stop fucking attributing statements you invented to actual people.
What are you talking about?
Okay let's get some facts on the ground.
1) As much as journalists have brainlessly adopted the practice of referring to casualty figures with the caveat "according to the Hamas controlled Ministry of Health", there are several problems with this idiocy:
a) It's fundamentally lazy journalism. Hamas provides Palestinian ID numbers for every single reported death, so any dedicated journalist could verify or deny the numbers if they were so inclined. There's absolutely no excuse now that the daily numbers are much lower than at the start of the conflict;
b) There are good fundamental reasons to generally accept the reliability of such measures. I'm sure a lot of Americans think of the Palestinian territories as third-world villages, but the civilian authorities in the West Bank and Gaza have an interest in maintaining detailed and accurate death records to manage and record changes to property titles in geographically dense areas;
c) The general accuracy of the death figures have historically and currently been confirmed by independent aid agencies. Moreover, the bloody Israeli government has relied on the accuracy of these figures for years.
Let's get to your claims now:
"... even the Gaza Health Ministry claims 35,000 fatalities and the UN itself says that almost half of the 25,000 identified ones were adult men."
The UN never said that. Ever. You're just reporting Israeli propaganda.
And here's a fun fact you apparently don't appreciate, even assuming 1/2 were either men or teenaged males (meaning 13-years old +), the teenaged males would be CHILD SOLDIERS. Under international law, you can't just carpet bomb child soldiers. You get that?
But more importantly is the fact that you pulled that presumption out of your ass, more precisely, "[I]f anywhere near half were men, let alone male teenagers, it stands to reason that a hefty portion were gunmen."
Sorry what's your basis for this statement? Are you in the IDF or something? I know that Israeli troops shoot anyone that moves but that doesn't make it legal, much less proof they are militants.
The ACTUAL widely cited figures are that 70% of the deaths in Gaza involve women and children. No idea why you were gullible enough to think that Israeli propaganda was credible.
So no, 1/2 were NOT men. We're down to 10.5K deaths now.
But let's ASSUME for a moment that indeed 1/2 of the 35K Gazans killed were in fact men and teenaged BOYS, that would bring us to 17.5K deaths.
For you to assert (with absolutely no factual basis) that 15K were "Hamas gunmen" would necessarily mean that 85% of men & male children aged 13-17 years old in Gaza are Hamas militants.
Do you realize how offensive, not to mention unhinged it is to suggest that 85% of Gazans over the age of 12 are terrorists?
I'll point you to a fun example about the Israeli approach to Palestinian lives that even your Israeli apologism will have a hard time excusing.
Remember in December when the IDF murdered three shirtless, unarmed, Hebrew-speaking, white-flag-waiving, Israeli hostages over a 15 minute period as they were trying to surrender? War crime. No one has been charged or will ever be charged for openly committing multiple murders in this case.
Gee whiz, I wonder whether innocent Palestinians civilians speaking Arabic would have fared better?
Lol, since you object to bombing teenaged terrorists even though they can shoot back, I assume you object even more strongly to bombing teenagers or anybody else who *can't* shoot back.
Which is to say, civilians. Whom the IDF has been trying, with quite reasonable success, to avoid killing, but whom Hamas has deliberately put in harm's way.
Ergo, you're either a sorry naïf or a terrorist sympathizer. Big surprise there.
Its not surprising, either, that you don't seem to care that *using* child soldiers is a war crime. https://childrenandarmedconflict.un.org/six-grave-violations/child-soldiers/#:~:text=Human%20rights%20law%20declares%2018,by%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court.
And where did you concoct that 85% number? Since when does "15K [Hamas gunmen]... necessarily mean that 85% of men & male children aged 13-17 years old in Gaza are Hamas militants"? There must be at least half a million Gaza males over the age of 13.
You are out of your everloving gourd.
Sorry when did I say that using child soldiers isn't a war crime? Umm that's implied as it's basic knowledge.
It's so fucking weird when Israeli apologists compare Israeli conduct to that of a terrorist organization. So you think that's the valid point of comparison? On this we actually agree as both Israel & Hamas have no regard for the Geneva Conventions.
Sigh let me help you with basic math:
1) I was, for the sake of argument agreeing that 1/2 of Gazans killed were adult men or teenaged males.
2) So 1/2 of 35k = 17.5 k.
3) You asserted (pulling the figure out if your ass) that Israel has killed 15k Hamas militants, in that casualty figure.
4) 15.k out of 17.5k = 86% (rounded up).
Bro, I'm using the same ridiculously flawed numbers YOU provided to prove your dumbass racist comment is moronic. You have only yourself to blame if you think the numbers don't make sense.
Yet another limited point of agreement, I'm 100% in agreement that the numbers you provided are completely wrong and illogical.
Don't think you can just shamelessly misquote yourself to win an argument.
Anyway, I obviously don't know any more than you do exactly how many male teenagers were the child soldiers whom you think it was a war crime to bomb but evidently not to recruit for use as combatants (or human shields) in the first place.
But given the Hamas enthusiasm for the whole Hitler Youth genre, https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/hamas-summer-camp-idUKRTX3D638/, I'd modestly guess they comprised at least 5-10% of overall fatalities. After all, Gaza has a notoriously young population to siphon into military manpower; moreover, in WW2 the teenaged Waffen SS units suffered up to 60% casualty rates.
Add another 30% who were adult male terrorists, and that's closing in on 40%. Or 14,000 dead gunmen. Which, of course, nearly matches the widely cited IDF estimate.
Obviously individuals like you will dismiss it all as Zionist tricks, but why it should be inconceivable that large numbers of Hamas gunmen would in fact cluster around the tunnels, schools, mosques, hospitals and other structures long favored by the organization and therefore bombed by the IDF after it shooed most civilians away, is best known to Hamas propagandists.
You expect people to believe that, as Hamas has so often asserted, 70% of the dead were innocent women and children, and that, presumably, most of the remaining 30% were innocent adult men. In which case there were virtually no Hamas gunmen anywhere in Gaza, and the whole war was cooked up by a cabal of Zionist warmongers and Christian fundamentalist Republicans to cover Bibi Netanyahu's posterior and usher in the End Times.
But good luck with that sales pitch.
Brother, you're still pulling assumptions straight out of your ass.
Who the fuck ever said that 30% of adult male casualties were all innocent? Dude, stop making up facts and worse yet stop fucking attributing statements you invented to actual people.