Why is McKay Coppins's observation considered a "Cheap Shot"? He's right, of course, as Donald Trump is closer to seeing the inside of a jail cell than any of you and the media ever thought. In fact, so many of you in the media didn't really predict anything about this trial that has held water.
"Picking the jury will take weeks." It took three days, and would've taken even less if Donald Trump had not intimidated them. The trial itself is not taking months, it's taking about one month, contrary to what the media breathlessly "reported." Miss Cleo should be hired as the legal correspondent for every major news outlet in the country for she would be a better predictor than the MSM.
Both sides have an ancient desire to kill each other. Israelis think the Joshua mandate to take the Promised Land away from the people already living there s still operational. The "river to the sea" objective was first expressed in the Israeli 1972 Likud party platform before it was appropriated by Hamas in forty years later.
Not ancient at all. That formulation makes the problem seem insoluble. But the native populations of Jews and Arab Christians and Muslims in Palestine before the Zionists coexisted peacefully. It was largely the same coexistence in Muslim countries before Israel started its ethnic cleansing. Iraq had Jews for over two thousands of years, again until Zionists by force and Western support created a nation dedicated to Jewish supremacy.
And well before that, a single family that left Palestine and went to Egypt to escape famine came back four hundred years later with what they believed was God's command and blessing to murder the inhabitants and take the land for themselves. Joshua led the effort. Eventually the state of Israel was destroyed, reconstituted, and destroyed again. They dispersed all over the world and only a small remnant remained until half of the Diaspora came back two thousand years later still believing in the Joshua mandate.
What I think is that I was going to vote for Biden, and now I'm not. Obviously one vote doesn't matter, but perhaps there are other voters who feel the same way.
Democrats joined Republicans to save Speaker Mike Johnson’s speakership from an ouster bid by Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene." So, Mikey, are D's still demons?
That's so crazy. Trump's presidency was a train wreck for financial markets. I had to stop trading because he was making some many stupid comments that the markets took seriously. It made the market very volatile. Also, does anyone remember COVID? That happened on Trump's watch. Thank God I was in a state that had a good governor. Biden's publicity manager has to place ads and news stories about how great things are. Stable markets, plenty of jobs, higher wages. No one is out telling that story. Although I don't know who you are polling but I don't hear anyone say the country was better under Trump.
Kat Abughazelah of the progressive group complained about Biden's comment about ancient hatred of Jews, "Hamas is around 30 years, does he mean Arabs or Brown people in general. That was not clever since hatred of Jews has been well documented since Roman times. Christians and Muslims, Russians NAZIS,Tzarists, Europeans and Americans have all had their hatred and prejudice of Jews. You can't deny it.
I haven't read through all 222 (at this point) previous comments so I don't know if anyone has touched on this but...
Kat Abughazelah's comments as quoted by Andrew are a wild distortion of what Biden was saying. He was not saying that all Arabs, Muslims, or brown people are anti-Semites although some clearly are. The "ancient" presence of anti-Semitism belongs to white people as well, and dates back thousands of years, long before Islam came along. And the anti-Semitism of Hamas didn't just spring forth 37 years ago from nowhere. It is derived from the Muslim Brotherhood, which preceded it, not to mention the anti-Semitism in the Arab world (particularly Egypt) with its support of the Nazis. Not, again, that all Arabs were supporters of Hitler. And no mention of the degree to which the Hamas charter is derived from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the enormously and long discredited anti-Semitic tract (that just happened to be created by whites). So Kat Abughazelah's comments are either born out of ignorance or are disingenuous or a deliberate and knowing distortion of what Biden was saying. Pretty discgraceful.
Yes, I found that a strange response to Biden's words as well. Anyone with any passing knowledge of history knows that anti-Semitism has been around since, yes, "ancient" times.
I have been wondering about the following scenario. A gang in S. Los Angeles wants to expand its territory, and it resents efforts to eradicate it, so it sends a foray into Orange County to murder and rape a whole lot of suburbanites. It makes all sorts of statements glorifying its feat. It then retreats to S. LA and mingles with the population.
Is the appropriate response to bomb say, Compton, to rubble? Are the non-gang-members just understandable casualties because they are human shields?
The real problem with this hypothetical is that Orange County hasn't really actively participated in controlling the economy of S. LA.
Yes the State of Israel is something we should wholeheartedly support for the refuge it provided after the horrors of the Holocaust and centuries--millennia--of diaspora and antisemitism. Does that mean we have to support the actions of a GOVERNMENT led by a party that in 1977 had as its "election manifesto" the following: ""Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." A position still supported by members of Bibi's cabinet.
I support Biden's sentiments about the horrors of antisemitism; I'm not at all convinced that antisemitism is what drives the majority of the protestors. And to say Hamas "started this war" lacks a whole lot of nuance in the total picture. The basic question is whether the terrorist attack has truly merited the Israeli Government's response. I am heartened that Biden has slowed shipment of offensive arms to Israel over Rafah and hope he will stop them entirely if Bibi goes after the civilian population of Rafah.
Question for all you bulwark fans. Is it quite possible that just cause they say they won’t vote for Biden, voting is private. No one is supposed to know who you vote for.
I think it is likely they will privately vote for Biden. The problem is that Ryan, Pence, Sununu, Christie et al. are refusing to say it publicly. They are former Republican leaders who likely still can be influential among voters outside the MAGA hard core, who will be key to the election. I'm hoping they'll use a trump conviction at trial to come out for Biden because they can't vote for a felon for president--probably late in the campaign.
You discuss polling and highlight the stability of the race, but Biden continues to make small gains. For example, a new poll by a highly-rated, conservative Arizona-based pollster, Data Orbital, has Biden up 1 and Gallego up 4. It is the first time Biden has led in an Arizona poll since June, 2023. Granted, these are not dramatic numbers, but the trend for several months has been positive for Biden. This is particularly so among self-identified “likely voters.”
If I'm following some of the pro-Hamas argument here, because the oldest person in the world is 117 years old, there was no anti-Semitism before 1907, right? Joe Biden's willingness to give the kind of speech he did, and to do so gladly and with real passion, makes me look at him increasingly as more than just a good caretaker type president but as something much closer to heroic. The responses to the speech, from the right and the left, on the other hand, make it hard not to succumb to despair. But Bill's quote from de Tocqueville has bucked me up for the day!
Of course, Michael Moore is on every CNN show now telling Democrats that because of caring for the victims of massacre he is going to lose the election. This is the morality of the far left for you.
I've read many a non sequitur in my life, but this one deserves the Louie Gohmert Award for B having nothing to do with A. What's more, it has the granddaddy of all euphemisms embedded in it. I'll admit, though, this sentence is a truly remarkable feat in both incongruity and Frankensteinian obfuscation: "The White House has continued to publicly pressure Israel’s government to take all reasonable steps to diminish Palestinian civilian casualties and mitigate the conflict’s collateral damage, particularly by letting more and more humanitarian aid into Gaza, where many people are starving."
The conflict's "collateral damage" — spell it out, for Christ's sake: to date, 34,300 dead Palestinians, 70% of them women and children; they're DEAD, not collaterally damaged — will somehow "particularly" be reduced by "letting more humanitarian aid into Gaza"? A malnourished mother racing for an aid truck so her starving children can eat will benefit from "more aid" only if she and her children aren't first blown up by a U.S.-made 2,000-pound bomb dropped by the IDF. Incidentally, yes, more aid, which Israel has sadistically blocked for months, would be good. On the other hand, among the dea ... sorry, among the collaterally damaged are more than 220 humanitarian aid workers. So best of luck to them.
Oh but we weren't through, were we. Then came this: "Those casualties [you were dangerously close to using the English language with that word, sans 'collateral' and negligible boo-boos] are ultimately the responsibility of Hamas." So Hamas made the IDF do it. Got it: the geopolitical version of battered-wife syndrome. Hamas has a tunnel under a hospital so naturally the IDF must level said hospital with said bombs, murdering scores of innocents. The day I can see how that makes sense is the day I'll know my mental faculties have gone to seed, and that Bibi Netanyahu has taken up residence in my brain.
I'm paying for this? I'm paying to read illogic and euphemisms and pretzel doctrines of warfare? Yes I am. But not much longer.
You know that by releasing hostages on October 8 Hamas could have prevented all of the suffering. You may also know that at least 15,000 of those dead Palestinians were Hamas militants, those who burned babies alive and gang raped women? You may also know that Hamas leader said publicly that they don't take any responsibility for safety of the Palestinians because it is a job of UN and Israel, and that was in response to the question why Gaza didn't have a single bomb shelter. You may also know that absolute majority of Israelis express compassion for Palestinian civilians, whole absolute majority of Palestinians want Jews dead. Fun fact: Israeli hospitals still treat Gazans for free, terrorists or not. Is this what you call genocide? How would you explain that free food delivered by trucks is sold to Gazans? And it has always been like that, not just now? Why Egypt keeps its border with Gaza sealed?
We don't actually know that 15,000 of the dead were Hamas militants--certainly there weren't 15,000 out and about on October 7. The IDF claims that, but they haven't named names for more than a few. Does working for the Hamas government as, say, a clerk in a government agency, make you a murdering militant who can be claimed as a legitimate kill?
Fun fact: the Geneva Conventions REQUIRE that prisoners of war be given medical attention. What other injured Palestinians are actually IN Israel to be treated for free?
Hamas' hostage taking is also against the Geneva Conventions. But Hamas isn't a country. It is a true terrorist organization, that ignores such restraints. It took over government of Gaza by a freaking COUP and was supported by Bibi in a really stupid tactical move. It isn't at all clear that bombing a bombing a country flat and killing even just 16,000 civilians (a 16 to one ratio) is the best way to preventing the survivors from feeling more and more militant themselves.
And Israel has now cut off two major ways of getting humanitarian aid to those just trying to survive. Jordan just denounced West Bank settlers for trying to stop aid trucks it was sending to the northern crossing point (luckily the settlers don't seem to have had drones or other ways of actually stopping the aid.)
First, I agree with you that Netanyahu is an awful person who acts against interests of Israeli people. Half of Israelis agree with you and me on this subject. By 2004, Israeli leader Sharon finally realized that Israeli settlements and settlers needed to go and pulled settlers out of Gaza, but it is much harder to do after Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and instead of peace ended up with Hamas. Just because Netanyahu is another Trump, you can't blame the entire Israel for his sins, just like you can't blame those who tried to stop Trump (me included) for our failure to stop him.
Israelis were not in a position to ask IDs from all the Hamas militants who were about and about on October 7, to track each on of them in Gaza, get their ID before shooting and making sure that none of those officially enrolled into Hamas military units who did not cross the border would not be harmed. Israelis kill every Hamas militant they encounter. Note that Hamas militants DO NOT wear uniforms when they attack Israelis, they also are known to use child soldiers - have you seen videos of their child soldiers marches? Hamas themselves claimed that they had 50,000 militants in their army before they started the war. Check with military experts, like US generals, what fighting against the enemy that purposely prevents civilians from leaving the warzone in a dense urban area is like and whether human casualties is easy to avoid.
Hamas did not come to power in a coup. Hamas was elected by majority of Gazans. What they did after they took power was not a coup, it was a massacre of those who disagreed with them. Working for the Hamas government does not qualify one as a terrorist, participating in October 7 attack does. 12 government employees did that. Several thousand of teachers employed by UN celebrated the attack. Civilians kept hostages and sold them to Hamas. This is what Hamas is, but those people who talk about it usually get killed before they get out of Gaza: https://www.newsweek.com/message-gazan-campus-protesters-youre-hurting-palestinian-cause-opinion-1894313
You cannot afford Hamas protections of Geneva conventions and absolve it from being held to the same standards. It is Israel that is accused of genocide, while Hamas as acknowledged as a leader of "peaceful" residents of Gaza. It does not work that way.
Israel did not bomb the country just to bomb it flat, it was destroying death tunnels that were built underneath pretty much every building in the country.
Everybody blames Israel for not allowing aid, but nobody seems to notice that Egypt keeps its border with Gaza sealed much more than Israel ever did.
Everybody seems to know better than Israelis how they should fight the terrorist organization that figured out how to convert billions of dollars in humanitarian aid into weapons against Israel. Nobody seems to be willing to figure out how to destroy the entire system of hate built by Hamas propaganda machine
Hamas came to power in an election that GWB and C Rice insisted on without having a clear path for someone who would be reasonable custodian of Palestinan concerns to be elected. Still, Bibi has been in the business of propping up Hamas as it has suited him. I expect that one of the reasons Bibi has been so brutal here is to try to erase that memory.
Agree with you on everything except the reason for brutality, if you are referring to the military action. IDF is conducting unprecedented operation against the well-trained, well-armed enemy which wears civilian clothes, uses civilians and civilian installations as human shields, all in the most dense urban area. I would defer that judgment to the US generals who know better. Israel lost or maybe even never engaged in the information war, the biggest loss is that Hamas through sophisticated quiet propaganda won the sympathy, minds and hearts of young Americans some of whom are now cheering on the brutalities of Hamas. They think they care about Palestinians, instead they solidifying position of Hamas as a representative of Palestinians.
As for GWB, his 8 years of Middle Eastern policies destroyed America and our image. I can go on forever on this subject.
No, I certainly wouldn't call what you wrote "genocide." I'd call it spin — largely removed-from-reality spin. If you're not in p.r. or congressional lobbying, you should be. You'd make a fortune.
When I said "Is this what you call genocide? " I did not mean to say that you personally called it genocide. Word "you" is widely used in figurative speech. If this is what caused your reaction, I apologize for misunderstanding and replace "you" with "one". The rest of my post was left unanswered, which often happens when people run out of valid arguments.
I didn't read "you" as "me." So much for that. And people often leave a discussion not because they've run out of arguments — a witless allegation, that — but because they realize too late that their interlocutor is clueless. To wit, "by releasing hostages on October 8 Hamas could have prevented all of the suffering." I should engage a person who could write that with seriousness?
You actually already engaged, and not in the most civil way, but I noticed that supporters of Hamas actions are not necessarily polite. In spirit of global intifada who cares about Western civilities! Israel left Gaza for good 18 years ago, only to be target of 20,000 missiles targeting Israel. What a great neighborly behavior! Still, Israel was allowing Gazans to work in Israel, unlike Egypt which keeps the border sealed from their Arab brothers in Gaza. One may wonder why?
Look, Mac, you threw the first punch with that insulting "run out of arguments" crap. Don't lecture me on civility. Now you insinuate I'm a "supporter of Hamas." There are only three words in the English language suitable for clowns like you. Go fuck yourself.
Axios reports the trump tariffs which is good. But how many people read Axios? Even so, the Biden people using those numbers should say this which is true: "Trump wants to raise your taxes by 10%! He wants to double the price of cars. In other cases if it's from china, taxes go up 60%! Sounds like a great economic plan doesn't it! You get to pay more taxes. He gets to ride around in AF 1 for free!"
Now if only the NYTs would actually report on something will really effects Americans directly.
"[Axios] Universal tariffs: In what would likely trigger a massive global trade war, Trump has called for 10% tariffs on all imports, 100% tariffs on cars made outside the U.S., and a minimum 60% tariffs on Chinese goods.
An analysis by the Center for American Progress Action Fund, a Democrat-aligned group, found that the 10% tariffs "would amount to a roughly $1,500 annual tax increase for the typical household.""
Why is McKay Coppins's observation considered a "Cheap Shot"? He's right, of course, as Donald Trump is closer to seeing the inside of a jail cell than any of you and the media ever thought. In fact, so many of you in the media didn't really predict anything about this trial that has held water.
"Picking the jury will take weeks." It took three days, and would've taken even less if Donald Trump had not intimidated them. The trial itself is not taking months, it's taking about one month, contrary to what the media breathlessly "reported." Miss Cleo should be hired as the legal correspondent for every major news outlet in the country for she would be a better predictor than the MSM.
Both sides have an ancient desire to kill each other. Israelis think the Joshua mandate to take the Promised Land away from the people already living there s still operational. The "river to the sea" objective was first expressed in the Israeli 1972 Likud party platform before it was appropriated by Hamas in forty years later.
Not ancient at all. That formulation makes the problem seem insoluble. But the native populations of Jews and Arab Christians and Muslims in Palestine before the Zionists coexisted peacefully. It was largely the same coexistence in Muslim countries before Israel started its ethnic cleansing. Iraq had Jews for over two thousands of years, again until Zionists by force and Western support created a nation dedicated to Jewish supremacy.
And well before that, a single family that left Palestine and went to Egypt to escape famine came back four hundred years later with what they believed was God's command and blessing to murder the inhabitants and take the land for themselves. Joshua led the effort. Eventually the state of Israel was destroyed, reconstituted, and destroyed again. They dispersed all over the world and only a small remnant remained until half of the Diaspora came back two thousand years later still believing in the Joshua mandate.
This hasn't aged well - what do we think of Biden holding back US munitions sales to Israel, announced this morning! I have whiplash.
What I think is that I was going to vote for Biden, and now I'm not. Obviously one vote doesn't matter, but perhaps there are other voters who feel the same way.
This: NYT "BREAKING NEWS
Democrats joined Republicans to save Speaker Mike Johnson’s speakership from an ouster bid by Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene." So, Mikey, are D's still demons?
That's so crazy. Trump's presidency was a train wreck for financial markets. I had to stop trading because he was making some many stupid comments that the markets took seriously. It made the market very volatile. Also, does anyone remember COVID? That happened on Trump's watch. Thank God I was in a state that had a good governor. Biden's publicity manager has to place ads and news stories about how great things are. Stable markets, plenty of jobs, higher wages. No one is out telling that story. Although I don't know who you are polling but I don't hear anyone say the country was better under Trump.
Kat Abughazelah of the progressive group complained about Biden's comment about ancient hatred of Jews, "Hamas is around 30 years, does he mean Arabs or Brown people in general. That was not clever since hatred of Jews has been well documented since Roman times. Christians and Muslims, Russians NAZIS,Tzarists, Europeans and Americans have all had their hatred and prejudice of Jews. You can't deny it.
https://wapo.st/3wpGciO
I haven't read through all 222 (at this point) previous comments so I don't know if anyone has touched on this but...
Kat Abughazelah's comments as quoted by Andrew are a wild distortion of what Biden was saying. He was not saying that all Arabs, Muslims, or brown people are anti-Semites although some clearly are. The "ancient" presence of anti-Semitism belongs to white people as well, and dates back thousands of years, long before Islam came along. And the anti-Semitism of Hamas didn't just spring forth 37 years ago from nowhere. It is derived from the Muslim Brotherhood, which preceded it, not to mention the anti-Semitism in the Arab world (particularly Egypt) with its support of the Nazis. Not, again, that all Arabs were supporters of Hitler. And no mention of the degree to which the Hamas charter is derived from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the enormously and long discredited anti-Semitic tract (that just happened to be created by whites). So Kat Abughazelah's comments are either born out of ignorance or are disingenuous or a deliberate and knowing distortion of what Biden was saying. Pretty discgraceful.
Yes, I found that a strange response to Biden's words as well. Anyone with any passing knowledge of history knows that anti-Semitism has been around since, yes, "ancient" times.
I have been wondering about the following scenario. A gang in S. Los Angeles wants to expand its territory, and it resents efforts to eradicate it, so it sends a foray into Orange County to murder and rape a whole lot of suburbanites. It makes all sorts of statements glorifying its feat. It then retreats to S. LA and mingles with the population.
Is the appropriate response to bomb say, Compton, to rubble? Are the non-gang-members just understandable casualties because they are human shields?
The real problem with this hypothetical is that Orange County hasn't really actively participated in controlling the economy of S. LA.
Yes the State of Israel is something we should wholeheartedly support for the refuge it provided after the horrors of the Holocaust and centuries--millennia--of diaspora and antisemitism. Does that mean we have to support the actions of a GOVERNMENT led by a party that in 1977 had as its "election manifesto" the following: ""Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." A position still supported by members of Bibi's cabinet.
I support Biden's sentiments about the horrors of antisemitism; I'm not at all convinced that antisemitism is what drives the majority of the protestors. And to say Hamas "started this war" lacks a whole lot of nuance in the total picture. The basic question is whether the terrorist attack has truly merited the Israeli Government's response. I am heartened that Biden has slowed shipment of offensive arms to Israel over Rafah and hope he will stop them entirely if Bibi goes after the civilian population of Rafah.
Question for all you bulwark fans. Is it quite possible that just cause they say they won’t vote for Biden, voting is private. No one is supposed to know who you vote for.
I think they'll secretly vote for trump. They just want to keep up appearances of being sane GOPers.
I think it is likely they will privately vote for Biden. The problem is that Ryan, Pence, Sununu, Christie et al. are refusing to say it publicly. They are former Republican leaders who likely still can be influential among voters outside the MAGA hard core, who will be key to the election. I'm hoping they'll use a trump conviction at trial to come out for Biden because they can't vote for a felon for president--probably late in the campaign.
You discuss polling and highlight the stability of the race, but Biden continues to make small gains. For example, a new poll by a highly-rated, conservative Arizona-based pollster, Data Orbital, has Biden up 1 and Gallego up 4. It is the first time Biden has led in an Arizona poll since June, 2023. Granted, these are not dramatic numbers, but the trend for several months has been positive for Biden. This is particularly so among self-identified “likely voters.”
Ahhhh. This newsletter literally covers the same 5 or 6 topics every single day
"...near the end of [d]emocracy in America." Prescient?
If I'm following some of the pro-Hamas argument here, because the oldest person in the world is 117 years old, there was no anti-Semitism before 1907, right? Joe Biden's willingness to give the kind of speech he did, and to do so gladly and with real passion, makes me look at him increasingly as more than just a good caretaker type president but as something much closer to heroic. The responses to the speech, from the right and the left, on the other hand, make it hard not to succumb to despair. But Bill's quote from de Tocqueville has bucked me up for the day!
Yes! I would not say it better!
Of course, Michael Moore is on every CNN show now telling Democrats that because of caring for the victims of massacre he is going to lose the election. This is the morality of the far left for you.
I've read many a non sequitur in my life, but this one deserves the Louie Gohmert Award for B having nothing to do with A. What's more, it has the granddaddy of all euphemisms embedded in it. I'll admit, though, this sentence is a truly remarkable feat in both incongruity and Frankensteinian obfuscation: "The White House has continued to publicly pressure Israel’s government to take all reasonable steps to diminish Palestinian civilian casualties and mitigate the conflict’s collateral damage, particularly by letting more and more humanitarian aid into Gaza, where many people are starving."
The conflict's "collateral damage" — spell it out, for Christ's sake: to date, 34,300 dead Palestinians, 70% of them women and children; they're DEAD, not collaterally damaged — will somehow "particularly" be reduced by "letting more humanitarian aid into Gaza"? A malnourished mother racing for an aid truck so her starving children can eat will benefit from "more aid" only if she and her children aren't first blown up by a U.S.-made 2,000-pound bomb dropped by the IDF. Incidentally, yes, more aid, which Israel has sadistically blocked for months, would be good. On the other hand, among the dea ... sorry, among the collaterally damaged are more than 220 humanitarian aid workers. So best of luck to them.
Oh but we weren't through, were we. Then came this: "Those casualties [you were dangerously close to using the English language with that word, sans 'collateral' and negligible boo-boos] are ultimately the responsibility of Hamas." So Hamas made the IDF do it. Got it: the geopolitical version of battered-wife syndrome. Hamas has a tunnel under a hospital so naturally the IDF must level said hospital with said bombs, murdering scores of innocents. The day I can see how that makes sense is the day I'll know my mental faculties have gone to seed, and that Bibi Netanyahu has taken up residence in my brain.
I'm paying for this? I'm paying to read illogic and euphemisms and pretzel doctrines of warfare? Yes I am. But not much longer.
You know that by releasing hostages on October 8 Hamas could have prevented all of the suffering. You may also know that at least 15,000 of those dead Palestinians were Hamas militants, those who burned babies alive and gang raped women? You may also know that Hamas leader said publicly that they don't take any responsibility for safety of the Palestinians because it is a job of UN and Israel, and that was in response to the question why Gaza didn't have a single bomb shelter. You may also know that absolute majority of Israelis express compassion for Palestinian civilians, whole absolute majority of Palestinians want Jews dead. Fun fact: Israeli hospitals still treat Gazans for free, terrorists or not. Is this what you call genocide? How would you explain that free food delivered by trucks is sold to Gazans? And it has always been like that, not just now? Why Egypt keeps its border with Gaza sealed?
We don't actually know that 15,000 of the dead were Hamas militants--certainly there weren't 15,000 out and about on October 7. The IDF claims that, but they haven't named names for more than a few. Does working for the Hamas government as, say, a clerk in a government agency, make you a murdering militant who can be claimed as a legitimate kill?
Fun fact: the Geneva Conventions REQUIRE that prisoners of war be given medical attention. What other injured Palestinians are actually IN Israel to be treated for free?
Hamas' hostage taking is also against the Geneva Conventions. But Hamas isn't a country. It is a true terrorist organization, that ignores such restraints. It took over government of Gaza by a freaking COUP and was supported by Bibi in a really stupid tactical move. It isn't at all clear that bombing a bombing a country flat and killing even just 16,000 civilians (a 16 to one ratio) is the best way to preventing the survivors from feeling more and more militant themselves.
And Israel has now cut off two major ways of getting humanitarian aid to those just trying to survive. Jordan just denounced West Bank settlers for trying to stop aid trucks it was sending to the northern crossing point (luckily the settlers don't seem to have had drones or other ways of actually stopping the aid.)
First, I agree with you that Netanyahu is an awful person who acts against interests of Israeli people. Half of Israelis agree with you and me on this subject. By 2004, Israeli leader Sharon finally realized that Israeli settlements and settlers needed to go and pulled settlers out of Gaza, but it is much harder to do after Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and instead of peace ended up with Hamas. Just because Netanyahu is another Trump, you can't blame the entire Israel for his sins, just like you can't blame those who tried to stop Trump (me included) for our failure to stop him.
Israelis were not in a position to ask IDs from all the Hamas militants who were about and about on October 7, to track each on of them in Gaza, get their ID before shooting and making sure that none of those officially enrolled into Hamas military units who did not cross the border would not be harmed. Israelis kill every Hamas militant they encounter. Note that Hamas militants DO NOT wear uniforms when they attack Israelis, they also are known to use child soldiers - have you seen videos of their child soldiers marches? Hamas themselves claimed that they had 50,000 militants in their army before they started the war. Check with military experts, like US generals, what fighting against the enemy that purposely prevents civilians from leaving the warzone in a dense urban area is like and whether human casualties is easy to avoid.
Hamas did not come to power in a coup. Hamas was elected by majority of Gazans. What they did after they took power was not a coup, it was a massacre of those who disagreed with them. Working for the Hamas government does not qualify one as a terrorist, participating in October 7 attack does. 12 government employees did that. Several thousand of teachers employed by UN celebrated the attack. Civilians kept hostages and sold them to Hamas. This is what Hamas is, but those people who talk about it usually get killed before they get out of Gaza: https://www.newsweek.com/message-gazan-campus-protesters-youre-hurting-palestinian-cause-opinion-1894313
You cannot afford Hamas protections of Geneva conventions and absolve it from being held to the same standards. It is Israel that is accused of genocide, while Hamas as acknowledged as a leader of "peaceful" residents of Gaza. It does not work that way.
Israel did not bomb the country just to bomb it flat, it was destroying death tunnels that were built underneath pretty much every building in the country.
Everybody blames Israel for not allowing aid, but nobody seems to notice that Egypt keeps its border with Gaza sealed much more than Israel ever did.
Everybody seems to know better than Israelis how they should fight the terrorist organization that figured out how to convert billions of dollars in humanitarian aid into weapons against Israel. Nobody seems to be willing to figure out how to destroy the entire system of hate built by Hamas propaganda machine
Hamas came to power in an election that GWB and C Rice insisted on without having a clear path for someone who would be reasonable custodian of Palestinan concerns to be elected. Still, Bibi has been in the business of propping up Hamas as it has suited him. I expect that one of the reasons Bibi has been so brutal here is to try to erase that memory.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Agree with you on everything except the reason for brutality, if you are referring to the military action. IDF is conducting unprecedented operation against the well-trained, well-armed enemy which wears civilian clothes, uses civilians and civilian installations as human shields, all in the most dense urban area. I would defer that judgment to the US generals who know better. Israel lost or maybe even never engaged in the information war, the biggest loss is that Hamas through sophisticated quiet propaganda won the sympathy, minds and hearts of young Americans some of whom are now cheering on the brutalities of Hamas. They think they care about Palestinians, instead they solidifying position of Hamas as a representative of Palestinians.
As for GWB, his 8 years of Middle Eastern policies destroyed America and our image. I can go on forever on this subject.
No, I certainly wouldn't call what you wrote "genocide." I'd call it spin — largely removed-from-reality spin. If you're not in p.r. or congressional lobbying, you should be. You'd make a fortune.
When I said "Is this what you call genocide? " I did not mean to say that you personally called it genocide. Word "you" is widely used in figurative speech. If this is what caused your reaction, I apologize for misunderstanding and replace "you" with "one". The rest of my post was left unanswered, which often happens when people run out of valid arguments.
I didn't read "you" as "me." So much for that. And people often leave a discussion not because they've run out of arguments — a witless allegation, that — but because they realize too late that their interlocutor is clueless. To wit, "by releasing hostages on October 8 Hamas could have prevented all of the suffering." I should engage a person who could write that with seriousness?
You actually already engaged, and not in the most civil way, but I noticed that supporters of Hamas actions are not necessarily polite. In spirit of global intifada who cares about Western civilities! Israel left Gaza for good 18 years ago, only to be target of 20,000 missiles targeting Israel. What a great neighborly behavior! Still, Israel was allowing Gazans to work in Israel, unlike Egypt which keeps the border sealed from their Arab brothers in Gaza. One may wonder why?
Look, Mac, you threw the first punch with that insulting "run out of arguments" crap. Don't lecture me on civility. Now you insinuate I'm a "supporter of Hamas." There are only three words in the English language suitable for clowns like you. Go fuck yourself.
Axios reports the trump tariffs which is good. But how many people read Axios? Even so, the Biden people using those numbers should say this which is true: "Trump wants to raise your taxes by 10%! He wants to double the price of cars. In other cases if it's from china, taxes go up 60%! Sounds like a great economic plan doesn't it! You get to pay more taxes. He gets to ride around in AF 1 for free!"
Now if only the NYTs would actually report on something will really effects Americans directly.
"[Axios] Universal tariffs: In what would likely trigger a massive global trade war, Trump has called for 10% tariffs on all imports, 100% tariffs on cars made outside the U.S., and a minimum 60% tariffs on Chinese goods.
An analysis by the Center for American Progress Action Fund, a Democrat-aligned group, found that the 10% tariffs "would amount to a roughly $1,500 annual tax increase for the typical household.""