Tocqueville noted that Americans forever brood over advantages they do not possess, but now our grievance culture has run amok. From the aggrieved-in-chief, Trump, who just can't catch a break, to the social justice warriors who apply the same lens to every situation, we're losing the line between what is righteous and what is bratty. Frank Bruni joins Tim Miller today.
In the 1999-2000 TV season, "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" held the top three slots (it aired three times a week). "Friends" was number five. Here's the whole list:
You're a good man, Tim Miller. It's a pleasure to watch you grow and mature. Your Mimi would be proud of you. Love the section on being humble/humility.
Loved this! Two of my favorite people. I’m not very vocal on The Bulwark but I really enjoy Tim. He does a great job and Frank Bruni is ALWAYS brilliant.
Tim! I listened to your interview on The Dispatch. I thought you were perfectly delightful. Purposefully lighthearted, one might say. But ohhhhhh nooooo, not according to those Dispatch comments. (Just one step short of National Review comments, if you ask me). According to The Dispatch commenters you were endlessly condescending. I did not pick-up any trace of condescension. And I think this is what makes the difference between Bulwark and Dispatch people: Dispatch people are SUPER sensitive. I think it’s because they kinda…sorta…aren’t really offended by Trump the way us never-Trumpers are. Like…Dispatch people think Trump and Biden are equally as bad, but they subconsciously know how fucked-up that analysis is, and feel ashamed, and therefore the sensitivity to criticism. Am I wrong?
I was disappointed in this and other Bulwark podcasts that include discussion of the anti-Jewish/Israel/Zionist protests at Columbia and elsewhere and the Hamas war in Gaza. I am tired of non-Jews opining about what is and isn't anti-semtism or a pogrom or reminiscent of Nazism or anti-Zionism. Your characterizing the protesters holding a Pesach "seder" as welcoming to Jews is irony to the max. Part of that is because you don't have any context for what a seder is all about and why we have them every year. It's like only talking to white people about anti-Black racism. Please get folks on the pods like Einat Wilf, Barack Ravid, Allison Kaplan Somer, Noah Efron, Yonit Levy, Jonathan Freedland, Rabbi David Wolpe (he is a prominent rabbi who is at Harvard this year & was/is on the antisemitism committee there). I can also put you in touch with hostage family members who have spoken to US politicians from the President to Congresspeople. None of these people are screamers but are very knowledgeable about what actually happened in the Hamas massacre, the historical and political contexts. Many if not all are critical of the current Prime Minister.
Many thanks to both of you, Tim and Frank, for a discussion that encouraged your listeners to pause and reflect, rather than to simply react. I found myself thinking about words and phrases such as "elevate," "take the high road," "breathe," "listen."
I closed my social media (Facebook and Twitter) accounts in 2016 during the run up to the election because I had found myself posting my most heated thoughts, unrestrained screed, in response to the anxiety I felt about the future should Trump actually be elected. I realized that if I was contributing anything as I screamed into the abyss, it was to add to the tendency for those holding different views, grievances (nod to the book), beliefs to figuratively "throw" rocks containing their anger across a wide expanse from one side to the other.
Ken Blanchard, in his book, "Situational Leadership," illustrated this issue when he wrote about "autocratic" and "democratic" leadership styles. He correctly pointed out that different situations require different styles of leadership. This observation also applies to interactions between students, protesters, politicians, neighbors, etc.
I loved the part of the discussion where Frank talked about the fragility of our unprecedented, democratic experiment, that is the United States. It is easy to make fun of Donald Trump. There is no limit to the material he makes available (just watch Jimmy Kimmel).
An example of the "Trump effect" is the flood of golden visa applications coming from Americans (something I have considered) who are considering fleeing to (where will we/they go?) different shores should Trump be re-elected. This is the case even though the populist movement is rising virtually everywhere, and those who love this mess that is our wounded democracy know in our hearts that, whatever the result of the election, whatever damage may be done should Trump be elected, we must stay and (figuratively!) fight for our country, as we prize and promote the obvious and seminal advantages of diversity, immigration, progress.
A word just for Tim - I listen to the Bulwark podcast every day, and think of you as a fellow traveler. I must say, however, that the Tim who relishes a good Trump "fart" joke, or laughs at Trump's latest gaffe (again, there is unlimited material) is not the Tim I enjoy the most. The Tim I most enjoy is the thoughtful, open-minded, courageous advocate for our higher purpose(s) and useful "wokeness." We must always remember Theodore Parker's quote - "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." And yes, thank you internet, I once thought Dr. King was the author of this quote.
This was a such a great interview/convo. Frank and Tim both bring up a lot of points I've discussed in the comments here in the past. The part where you guys discuss the lack of struggle in American lives who have the majority of what they want--physically secure, financially stable, materially well-off, etc., etc. (Maslow's hierarchy of needs being met essentially)--leading to having enough space in their lives to argue over what Tom Nichols calls "the narcissism of small differences" is so key to where we are in our political polarization. The same goes for the lack of a shared set of facts between an American public who gets their "facts" from a fractured media environment. You can see this on both the hard left and MAGA right daily.
Also key to the convo is the pivot to pessimism/doomerism, which mostly comes from economics. Yes we're a country of abundance, but that abundance is increasingly going to the upper tier and while everyone else struggles to afford housing and children. That's a huge driver of national pessimism and it's even more visible and in our faces now via social media and tiered pricing. When people can't afford housing because we *don't* have abundance in the housing supply, then it sends up rents and makes home ownership--core to the American dream--feel out of reach. The same applies to having children if you can't afford a house large enough to raise them in and you also can't afford childcare while having a dual-income household necessary to afford said house.
Thanks to Frank Bruni for recognizing, all too briefly, that it is painful to see the weakest of the four Trump indictments going first. An acquittal will just fuel the notion that this is a political prosecution – a persecution – making subsequent prosecutions increasingly difficult.
The hush money indictment requires Bragg to prove a crime within a crime. Media coverage, especially from the left, focuses blindly on the seedy understory and the effort to “interfere with the 2016 election.” But a candidate's effort to suppress negative information is not, by itself, a crime.
The hush money indictment requires proof that records were falsified with the specific intent to defraud someone and to do so by concealing the commission of another crime, in this case, disguising an illegal campaign contribution. That is a stretch, at best.
I pray that I am wrong, that Bragg has a better underlying crime, but based on what I have read so far I would have trouble convicting him on these particular charges and fear a jury will too. I say this based on 40 years as a federal prosecutor and Wisconsin Circuit Court judge.
Meanwhile, the most compelling of the four cases – the Mara Lago documents indictment – Is poised to go last and, sadly, maybe never. That case is a prosecutorial slam dunk if there ever was one, so strong even Judge Aileen Cannon cannot wave it away.
By the way, thanks also for one of the finest bulwark podcasts ever. It finally inspired me to take out an annual subscription.
Start to finish, Bruni (and Tim) so eloquently articulated my "grievance" (sorry!) with the overall American and Internet culture.
I will be forcing my young children to listen to it. Hopefully they are able to get the full understanding of it. And maybe (fingers crossed) I can get them to sit through reading Bruni's book.
Sorry, but did Tim just "both sides" one professor making a historical comparison (and, uh, maybe study Germany in the late 20s and early 30s before dismissing the comparison) with students forming human chains to prevent Jewish kids from moving throughout campus and hurling antisemitic slurs, screaming "bomb Tel Aviv" and "Hamas, we love you, we support your rockets, too" and "Go back to Poland," with signs posted referring to the world's only Jewish state as "a nation of pigs"?
I don't support everything Shai Davidai has said or done, but he's not the reason the university has shut down. Their refusal to protect their Jewish students from the tsunami of antisemitism on campus is. A little moral clarity, please.
Absolutely Brilliant! A fantastic conversation on all the craziness going on right now. I loved Frank's take on the Columbia Protests and definitely see a connection between current campus culture and grievance. Also seemed that Tim enjoyed the whole conversation - he didn't have to try and extract teeth like with Ross Douthat. Frank gave clear, un-hesistent and brilliant worded answers/trains of thought. A+++. Can't wait to see JVL's response to it.
Trump not only deserves to be mocked and that needs to be done by everyone from Biden, Haley and Pence but also by CNN and NBC and the NY Times. actually by all of us on zFB, X, tic tic whatever
During the podcast Tim made a passing mention about people being reluctant to have children because of their fears of the effects of climate change. Several other Bulwark commentators including Mona have made similar statements in the past. Apparently Tim and others have information that leads them to believe that the effects of climate change will not be very bad. I truly wish they would share that information with the rest of us. I, for one, am very concerned about climate change and the fact the we and the rest of the world are not doing nearly enough to limit and mitigate its effects in a timely manner.
In the 1999-2000 TV season, "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" held the top three slots (it aired three times a week). "Friends" was number five. Here's the whole list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-rated_United_States_television_programs_of_1999%E2%80%932000
You're a good man, Tim Miller. It's a pleasure to watch you grow and mature. Your Mimi would be proud of you. Love the section on being humble/humility.
Loved this! Two of my favorite people. I’m not very vocal on The Bulwark but I really enjoy Tim. He does a great job and Frank Bruni is ALWAYS brilliant.
Great podcast. Would love to hear you interview Arthur Brooks on this same topic
Without getting preachy, gratitude and humility are the forgotten virtues of the modern age. We need to embrace how good we have it.
Tim! I listened to your interview on The Dispatch. I thought you were perfectly delightful. Purposefully lighthearted, one might say. But ohhhhhh nooooo, not according to those Dispatch comments. (Just one step short of National Review comments, if you ask me). According to The Dispatch commenters you were endlessly condescending. I did not pick-up any trace of condescension. And I think this is what makes the difference between Bulwark and Dispatch people: Dispatch people are SUPER sensitive. I think it’s because they kinda…sorta…aren’t really offended by Trump the way us never-Trumpers are. Like…Dispatch people think Trump and Biden are equally as bad, but they subconsciously know how fucked-up that analysis is, and feel ashamed, and therefore the sensitivity to criticism. Am I wrong?
I was disappointed in this and other Bulwark podcasts that include discussion of the anti-Jewish/Israel/Zionist protests at Columbia and elsewhere and the Hamas war in Gaza. I am tired of non-Jews opining about what is and isn't anti-semtism or a pogrom or reminiscent of Nazism or anti-Zionism. Your characterizing the protesters holding a Pesach "seder" as welcoming to Jews is irony to the max. Part of that is because you don't have any context for what a seder is all about and why we have them every year. It's like only talking to white people about anti-Black racism. Please get folks on the pods like Einat Wilf, Barack Ravid, Allison Kaplan Somer, Noah Efron, Yonit Levy, Jonathan Freedland, Rabbi David Wolpe (he is a prominent rabbi who is at Harvard this year & was/is on the antisemitism committee there). I can also put you in touch with hostage family members who have spoken to US politicians from the President to Congresspeople. None of these people are screamers but are very knowledgeable about what actually happened in the Hamas massacre, the historical and political contexts. Many if not all are critical of the current Prime Minister.
Many thanks to both of you, Tim and Frank, for a discussion that encouraged your listeners to pause and reflect, rather than to simply react. I found myself thinking about words and phrases such as "elevate," "take the high road," "breathe," "listen."
I closed my social media (Facebook and Twitter) accounts in 2016 during the run up to the election because I had found myself posting my most heated thoughts, unrestrained screed, in response to the anxiety I felt about the future should Trump actually be elected. I realized that if I was contributing anything as I screamed into the abyss, it was to add to the tendency for those holding different views, grievances (nod to the book), beliefs to figuratively "throw" rocks containing their anger across a wide expanse from one side to the other.
Ken Blanchard, in his book, "Situational Leadership," illustrated this issue when he wrote about "autocratic" and "democratic" leadership styles. He correctly pointed out that different situations require different styles of leadership. This observation also applies to interactions between students, protesters, politicians, neighbors, etc.
I loved the part of the discussion where Frank talked about the fragility of our unprecedented, democratic experiment, that is the United States. It is easy to make fun of Donald Trump. There is no limit to the material he makes available (just watch Jimmy Kimmel).
An example of the "Trump effect" is the flood of golden visa applications coming from Americans (something I have considered) who are considering fleeing to (where will we/they go?) different shores should Trump be re-elected. This is the case even though the populist movement is rising virtually everywhere, and those who love this mess that is our wounded democracy know in our hearts that, whatever the result of the election, whatever damage may be done should Trump be elected, we must stay and (figuratively!) fight for our country, as we prize and promote the obvious and seminal advantages of diversity, immigration, progress.
A word just for Tim - I listen to the Bulwark podcast every day, and think of you as a fellow traveler. I must say, however, that the Tim who relishes a good Trump "fart" joke, or laughs at Trump's latest gaffe (again, there is unlimited material) is not the Tim I enjoy the most. The Tim I most enjoy is the thoughtful, open-minded, courageous advocate for our higher purpose(s) and useful "wokeness." We must always remember Theodore Parker's quote - "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." And yes, thank you internet, I once thought Dr. King was the author of this quote.
This was a such a great interview/convo. Frank and Tim both bring up a lot of points I've discussed in the comments here in the past. The part where you guys discuss the lack of struggle in American lives who have the majority of what they want--physically secure, financially stable, materially well-off, etc., etc. (Maslow's hierarchy of needs being met essentially)--leading to having enough space in their lives to argue over what Tom Nichols calls "the narcissism of small differences" is so key to where we are in our political polarization. The same goes for the lack of a shared set of facts between an American public who gets their "facts" from a fractured media environment. You can see this on both the hard left and MAGA right daily.
Also key to the convo is the pivot to pessimism/doomerism, which mostly comes from economics. Yes we're a country of abundance, but that abundance is increasingly going to the upper tier and while everyone else struggles to afford housing and children. That's a huge driver of national pessimism and it's even more visible and in our faces now via social media and tiered pricing. When people can't afford housing because we *don't* have abundance in the housing supply, then it sends up rents and makes home ownership--core to the American dream--feel out of reach. The same applies to having children if you can't afford a house large enough to raise them in and you also can't afford childcare while having a dual-income household necessary to afford said house.
shout out to the microprivileged Bulward Founders!
Thanks to Frank Bruni for recognizing, all too briefly, that it is painful to see the weakest of the four Trump indictments going first. An acquittal will just fuel the notion that this is a political prosecution – a persecution – making subsequent prosecutions increasingly difficult.
The hush money indictment requires Bragg to prove a crime within a crime. Media coverage, especially from the left, focuses blindly on the seedy understory and the effort to “interfere with the 2016 election.” But a candidate's effort to suppress negative information is not, by itself, a crime.
The hush money indictment requires proof that records were falsified with the specific intent to defraud someone and to do so by concealing the commission of another crime, in this case, disguising an illegal campaign contribution. That is a stretch, at best.
I pray that I am wrong, that Bragg has a better underlying crime, but based on what I have read so far I would have trouble convicting him on these particular charges and fear a jury will too. I say this based on 40 years as a federal prosecutor and Wisconsin Circuit Court judge.
Meanwhile, the most compelling of the four cases – the Mara Lago documents indictment – Is poised to go last and, sadly, maybe never. That case is a prosecutorial slam dunk if there ever was one, so strong even Judge Aileen Cannon cannot wave it away.
By the way, thanks also for one of the finest bulwark podcasts ever. It finally inspired me to take out an annual subscription.
This was an AWESOME conversation. AWESOME I say!
Start to finish, Bruni (and Tim) so eloquently articulated my "grievance" (sorry!) with the overall American and Internet culture.
I will be forcing my young children to listen to it. Hopefully they are able to get the full understanding of it. And maybe (fingers crossed) I can get them to sit through reading Bruni's book.
Sorry, but did Tim just "both sides" one professor making a historical comparison (and, uh, maybe study Germany in the late 20s and early 30s before dismissing the comparison) with students forming human chains to prevent Jewish kids from moving throughout campus and hurling antisemitic slurs, screaming "bomb Tel Aviv" and "Hamas, we love you, we support your rockets, too" and "Go back to Poland," with signs posted referring to the world's only Jewish state as "a nation of pigs"?
I don't support everything Shai Davidai has said or done, but he's not the reason the university has shut down. Their refusal to protect their Jewish students from the tsunami of antisemitism on campus is. A little moral clarity, please.
Don't let the sun go down on your grievances. thx for the intro to the song
Absolutely Brilliant! A fantastic conversation on all the craziness going on right now. I loved Frank's take on the Columbia Protests and definitely see a connection between current campus culture and grievance. Also seemed that Tim enjoyed the whole conversation - he didn't have to try and extract teeth like with Ross Douthat. Frank gave clear, un-hesistent and brilliant worded answers/trains of thought. A+++. Can't wait to see JVL's response to it.
Trump not only deserves to be mocked and that needs to be done by everyone from Biden, Haley and Pence but also by CNN and NBC and the NY Times. actually by all of us on zFB, X, tic tic whatever
During the podcast Tim made a passing mention about people being reluctant to have children because of their fears of the effects of climate change. Several other Bulwark commentators including Mona have made similar statements in the past. Apparently Tim and others have information that leads them to believe that the effects of climate change will not be very bad. I truly wish they would share that information with the rest of us. I, for one, am very concerned about climate change and the fact the we and the rest of the world are not doing nearly enough to limit and mitigate its effects in a timely manner.