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Austin Ruse's avatar

One of the main reasons we support Trump is because of the kind of rhetoric we see here at The Bulwark, both among the writers, and the commenters below. It is just nuts. And dangerous, too.

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Austin, may I suggest you look up the word 'projection'. It explains the behavior of someone who can support a presidential candidate who calls his opponents 'vermin' while simultaneously accusing those same opponents of using 'dangerous' rhetoric.

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Cheerio's avatar

That is because Trumpy snowflakes can dish it out but can't handle the truth.

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Peter J. Curtin's avatar

Bull-Poop. You are a grown person with agency and a choice. If you choose Trump because you dislike the views of other Americans, that's a middle-school level reason, but you do you. And by the way, the danger lies mostly on the other side - your guys own most of the guns and do most of the mass shootings.

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

The gun thing is not precisely true anymore, except for the mass shooting thing. The left is buying a lot of guns precisely because of the mass shooting thing.

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Jonathan V. Last's avatar

Austin, the ethos of this community is that comments should be at least 2 of the following: Kind, necessary, and true.

Thoughtful, good-faith disagreement is welcome. Trolling is not. This isn't Facebook. Please do better.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Jonathan, IтАЩm not sure what youтАЩre referring to.

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Jonathan V. Last's avatar

If you genuinely don't understand that what you're doing is trolling, then you should stop posting here. The internet is a big place. This corner of it a respite for good-faith discussion.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

No, I really donтАЩt. I know IтАЩm disagreeing with you and your followers and saying so. I think this is quite a lively give and take.

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

Do you actually think youтАЩre doing well here?

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SandyG's avatar

Examples, please.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

All patriots oppose Trump.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Not really true. One thing IтАЩm certain of; Trump loves this country.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

Yes, really true. Trump is promising to remake America into a right-wing authoritarian state complete with eliminating those who a oppose him as "vermin." He has a shadow staff pre-vetting potential nominees right now for absolute loyalty to himself over the the constitution. No patriot supports his agenda. All patriots oppose Trump. It is impossible to be a patriots AND support Trump. If Trump loved this country, he would not caused it so much damage. He would have conceded when he lost the election, and gone home to p[lay golf.

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ahansen's avatar

The only thing Mr. trump "loves" is sycophants-- and even then, not really.

LPT: Don't be such a rube; it makes you look silly.

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Peter J. Curtin's avatar

Why are you certain of that? I just don't see it.

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SandyG's avatar

He doesn't love all the people in it, or the Constitution.

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Kathy Balles's avatar

I suppose you also believe heтАЩs a great businessman? Because The Apprentice said he was. Mmmhmmm. One thing about NYC folks - they can spot a con man - probably why they voted against him so lopsidedly.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Like Mort Zuckerman said, тАЬhe inherited $10

Million and ran it into real money.тАЭ

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ahansen's avatar

LOL! He lost money in the CASINO BUSINESS!

In the 1980s!

Of course, laundering it for the Russian mob could conceivably be construed as "making real money" (for someone, at least. . .)

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Kathy Balles's avatar

More like ran it into the ground.

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Kathy Balles's avatar

https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump-reported-losses-1-billion-2-year/story?id=93860929 - but wait, donтАЩt tell me, great businessmen personally lose millions of dollars all the time. In fact, heтАЩs the greatest, since he lost more than anyone else!

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Austin Ruse's avatar

According to the best source, Forbes, he ran it into billions. He lost billions in public service unlike Biden.

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Peter J. Curtin's avatar

Why do you believe that, Austin? Do you have a source for those figures? I'm not aware of one (although I agree Biden has not lost billions of dollars while in public service).

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Forbes Rich List. TheyтАЩve been doing it for decades.

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ahansen's avatar

Much like his star on Hollywood Blvd, he (or was it "John Barron") [paid](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/trump-used-fake-persona-to-lie-about-his-wealth-former-forbes-writer.html) to be on that list. In fact, he's now facing multiple felony charges in New York for his decades of financial perfidy.

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Kathy Balles's avatar

Hahaha - Trump loves Trump. Fact.

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Maggie's avatar

I got a bridge to sell this guy.

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ahansen's avatar

This way to the egress. . .

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SandyG's avatar

Hah!

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Kathy Balles's avatar

Yeah, Austin, because what would Jesus do? ЁЯЩД

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Trump has done nothing that prevents a faithful Catholic from supporting him.

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ahansen's avatar

"Can you believe people believe that bullshit?"

-Donald J. Trump (after meeting with evangelicals in the Oval Office.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-secretly-mocks-his-christian-supporters/616522/

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Austin Ruse's avatar

yeah, I am not an Evangelical.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

In 2006 trump was not a candidate or president. I really believe he cleaned up that part of his act. As far as I know, there are no such accusations since then. Colorado wonтАЩt stand.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Couple things. 1) all pols lie almost all the time 2) when did candidate or President Trump commit adultery 3) what insurrection?

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

The point about committing adultery as a candidate or President might be answered by the fact Melania has zero to do with him anymore and Alina Habba appears to have taken over as her stand in at rallies and other events.

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Peter J. Curtin's avatar

(1) I have to respectfully disagree, although I' glad you can at least admit that Trump lies a lot.

(2) I don't know. Heck he was 70+ in 2016 so I'd bet he's slowed down in recent years, but don't you think that secretly paying hush money from campaign funds is also a sign of poor character?

(3) The attempted insurrection by a large group of Gravy Seals and other assorted misfits on January 6, 2021.

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SandyG's avatar

1) NO one elected to the presidency lies as much as Trump and keeps lying when it's been disproven. See "the election was stolen" lie.

2) When he had an affair with Stormy Daniels in 2006. That's just his word against hers? Then why spend $130K to shut her up?

3) See the finding of the Colorado Supreme Court based on evidence presented to them that Trump did nothing to contest.

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

Couple things.

1) Then why support any pols including Trump?

2 & 3) Names of your news sources?

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

So a faithful Catholic is A-okay with lying, adultery, and insurrection?

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Or a faithful Catholic can be easily blinded by the allure of evil.

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Cheerio's avatar

And fraud, and theft, and the abuses he heaped on innocent children at the border, and rape.. he exemplifies the 7 deadly sins.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

Adultery is A-ok but homosexuality is unforgivable. Because hypocrisy.

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Maggie's avatar

Good Lord, if that's really true I guess I'm an Episcopalian now.

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Kathy Balles's avatar

тАЬDearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance; I will repay, sayeth the Lord.тАЭ Romans 12:19

Trump: тАЬI am your retribution.тАЭ But okay, oh faithful Catholic

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Welcome to political rhetoric. Are you new around these parts?

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Kathy Balles's avatar

YouтАЩre the newbie on this board, bub.

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SandyG's avatar

Well said!

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William Vobejda's avatar

Austin, just because some Bulwark writers/subscribers use rhetoric you disagree with doesnтАЩt change who Donald Trump has always been. A man devoid of any moral compass. You have to know this. DonтАЩt you remember when Clinton was President and we all said тАЬcharacter countsтАЭ? It still does.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

You ok with Trump saying heтАЩd suspend the US Constitution?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Hyperbole.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

I witnessed the insurrection on live television. It may be comforting to pretend Trump is all hyperbole all the time, but he is a twisted, evil man.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

You watched a riot.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

From Oxford Dictionary: insurrection- a violent uprising against an authority or government.

I witnessed a violent attempt to prevent the official transfer of governmental authority from one president to the next. And PS - Trump is an evil, twisted man.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

No you didnтАЩt. You watched a riot, in many respects a goofy one.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

I know exactly what I saw. Ask the men and women who were injured how goofy it was. And Trump is a horrible man for many reasons. He cheated on all three wives. He paid a porn star for sex. (Ick). He lies. He cheats his contractors. He separated children from their parents with no plan to reunite them. He made sexually perverted comments about his own daughter. A jury found him liable for sexual assault. He called American citizens vermin. His Christmas message this year finished up with: тАж MAY THEY ROT IN HELL. AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS. (His caps). This is the guy you want for president of the United States of America?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

I will support him happily. Along with roughly half the country.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

And that's a huge problem. Standards have really slipped if anyone is willing to support Trump especially devout Catholics. But traditional standards aside, it is impossible for a patriots to support Trump given his agenda. It will do you no good to pretend it is all empty rhetoric and hyperbole. That ship sailed in 2017 when the country learned he had no intention of ever being "presidential." All patriots oppose Trump.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

I have to think your reference to "his agenda" has to do with bringing the federal bureaucracy under control. I fully support that. As someone who has worked in and around Washington for nearly 30 years, I have seen how the presidential agenda is undermined by bureaucrats.

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Not half the country, not even close. Thirty percent maybe, since a third of the electorate doesn't vote, and five or so percent of that thirty are not hard core Trump supporters.

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

Can you point out examples of the "nuts" and "dangerous" rhetoric?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

The end of democracy! HeтАЩs going to jail or kill our children! Hitler! Mussolini! Please.

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Ellen Hinchee's avatar

The end of democracy because he has specifically outlined anti-democratic plans and said he plans to be a dictator. Nobody has said anything about killing children (typical straw man argument). Trump has several criminal charges pending so in fact could go to jail. Hitler is a legit comparison in several ways, as is Mussolini. Do your research on these guys and what their early statements and actions were. It was a slow steady escalation that nobody thought could or would happen. So nobody is overreacting or hysterical. This is all factually based. If you have factually based and logical arguments why Trump should be our next president, please, we are eager to hear.

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ahansen's avatar

If by "several criminal charges" you mean 91 documented felonies. . .

We're feeding a troll here.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Michael Beschloss said Trump would jail and kill тАЬour childrenтАЭ. This kind of rhetoric is dangerous. What would you do to stop Hitler and his followers?

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Trump did say, he would support the on sight shooting of shoplifters....more hyperbole I'm sure.

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SandyG's avatar

The end of democracy is not rhetoric. It's an argument based on Trump's actions and words. Same with the parallels to early 1930s Germany. Both are based on facts. Are they wrong? Then make the counterargument also based on facts.

Rhetoric does not require facts.

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

And I've encountered many in the pro-Trump camp who insist Democrats are baby-eating demon worshippers who only win elections by stealing and are hellbent on destroying the USA. Specifics please. What specifically have the Bulwark writers said that makes you support Trump?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

You misunderstand. I supported Trump from when Cruz dropped out. I still support him. My point is that the crazy rhetoric of the never merely confirms us in our support of him. And no, youтАЩve never heard a conservative call you a baby-eater.

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

What is your definition of a "conservative"?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Not debating that.

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SandyG's avatar

Anyone who uses a term and won't define it is arguing in bad faith.

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SandyG's avatar

You sound like Nikki Haley with her response to what the cause of the Civil War was - "What do you think it is?" And Trump's refusal to debate at all.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

ItтАЩs just a tedious debate. ItтАЩs not interesting. And probably no longer applicable. It is now conservative to defend the 60-year/old sexual revolution. I am now firmly anyone who wants to upend the institutions that have betrayed us. Trump gets this. Maybe Bobby Kennedy does.

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SandyG's avatar

What institutions are those?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

The justice system. The FBI. Top brass of military. Journalism. Academia. I could go on.

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Austin Ruse's avatar

Useless. Boring. Pointless.

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Sumi Ink ЁЯЗиЁЯЗж's avatar

Okay, between Liz Cheney and Donald Trump, who do you think better upholds actual conservative values?

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Austin Ruse's avatar

IтАЩll just say this. Folks ought to grateful to Trump for destroying three dynasties; Bush, Clinton, Cheney.

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Nick's avatar

Reasonable argument for supporting a lunatic, Austin.

/s just to be clear.

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