633 Comments

Thanks for your replies. What do we do to counter the willful ignorance? That is the $64k question.

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The reasons for voting for Donald Trump this time around are easy to sum up" "I'm stupid and there is nothing you can do about it."

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Here's another unpredictable, Trump can't find a defense against the 'Trump stinks' meme. Kinzinger may have gone low, but it's the kind of low Trump and his supporters wallow in....or should I say waft in. In that sense, this may break through their cultish behavior in a way other things haven't. Plus his campaign is trying to defend him against this one which makes it all the more believable.

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"Like I said: Reasons."

But anyone defending Trump, or even still considering voting for him, does not need any reasons, because they think - and - vote - not on reason, but on emotion. They crave a "savior," and don't care that it's one who will lie to make them feel good. And whenever he lets them down - as he has already, they just blame "the left."

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So glad everyone is back. 💕 I guess my only comment is it's not half of Americans support the orange thing... it's 1/3 and then the 1/3 that don't vote?

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Jan 3Liked by Jonathan V. Last

Yeah, this has nothing at all to do with The Triad today, but I laughed out loud when I read it, so I thought, as part of my public service to this blessed group, that I would forward for a teeny tiny bit of levity in an otherwise dark and foreboding place:

Today, "The Onion" reported as follows:

"Thanks to Gov. Ron DeSantis’ so-called ‘war on woke,’ Florida institutions of higher education have experienced an unprecedented brain drain. "The Onion" asked professors why they are fleeing the state, and this is what they said...

-Henry Johnson, History: “It was easier to teach history when I was allowed to acknowledge that it began before 1981.”

-Charles Menard, English: “They’re making me teach a version of Beowulf where he says the Pledge of Allegiance halfway through.”

-Carl Ebling, American History: “A posse of moms walked me to the state line.”

-Bonnie Coyne, African American History: “I have to teach that slavery was not only beneficial, but so beneficial that white people are owed reparations.”

-Rhonda Harvey, Statistics: “They kept forcing me to assign Mein Kampf to read as math homework.”

-Stacy Levine, History: “I just don’t feel comfortable shooting students who act up.”

-Peter Barrett, Psychology: “They keep calling my subject ‘witch science.’”

You are welcome! :)

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Thx! Delightful.

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Even if (please may it be so) that Trump loses, he will claim he won just like 2020 resulting in what could be a much worse uprising than 1/6/21.

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Uprising. Good grief. Like the summer of our Floyd?

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You got the whuddaboutism down. Now do the contrarian know-it-all mansplaining. 🙄

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Perhaps, Sir, if these comments annoy you as much as they appear to do, based on my reading of several of yours, you may wish to join a different political-leaning group. I predict less stress on you and all of us. Differences of opinion are encouraged here but nasty comments for the sake of nasty? Not so much...

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JVL, When you said "I told you that Joe Biden would be the nominee in 2016", did you mean to say 2020?

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author

Oh crap. Yes. Sorry.

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Actually, Texas is not a red or blue state. It’s a non-voting state. If Texas residents are ever make it to the ballot box, the state would be blue.

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I suppose you are right -- it is willful -- but that suggests it is actually part of the culture war. It is willful in order to protect their particular narrative.

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JVL, you may be preaching to the wrong choir. The Trumpies will never listen, so your efforts might be better aimed at far left Dems that think Biden is too supportive of Israel, too normie, is even considering border control etc.

Not sure how you get to these, mostly very young, voters, but they need to show up in November, at least in swing States. Or else we are all screwed.

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Yes, do a Bulwark Live event for the far left Dems in New York, where they can come to the mic and speak.

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founding

Here there be monsters.

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One of the main reasons we support Trump is because of the kind of rhetoric we see here at The Bulwark, both among the writers, and the commenters below. It is just nuts. And dangerous, too.

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Austin, may I suggest you look up the word 'projection'. It explains the behavior of someone who can support a presidential candidate who calls his opponents 'vermin' while simultaneously accusing those same opponents of using 'dangerous' rhetoric.

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That is because Trumpy snowflakes can dish it out but can't handle the truth.

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Bull-Poop. You are a grown person with agency and a choice. If you choose Trump because you dislike the views of other Americans, that's a middle-school level reason, but you do you. And by the way, the danger lies mostly on the other side - your guys own most of the guns and do most of the mass shootings.

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The gun thing is not precisely true anymore, except for the mass shooting thing. The left is buying a lot of guns precisely because of the mass shooting thing.

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author

Austin, the ethos of this community is that comments should be at least 2 of the following: Kind, necessary, and true.

Thoughtful, good-faith disagreement is welcome. Trolling is not. This isn't Facebook. Please do better.

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Jonathan, I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

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If you genuinely don't understand that what you're doing is trolling, then you should stop posting here. The internet is a big place. This corner of it a respite for good-faith discussion.

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No, I really don’t. I know I’m disagreeing with you and your followers and saying so. I think this is quite a lively give and take.

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Do you actually think you’re doing well here?

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Examples, please.

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All patriots oppose Trump.

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Not really true. One thing I’m certain of; Trump loves this country.

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Yes, really true. Trump is promising to remake America into a right-wing authoritarian state complete with eliminating those who a oppose him as "vermin." He has a shadow staff pre-vetting potential nominees right now for absolute loyalty to himself over the the constitution. No patriot supports his agenda. All patriots oppose Trump. It is impossible to be a patriots AND support Trump. If Trump loved this country, he would not caused it so much damage. He would have conceded when he lost the election, and gone home to p[lay golf.

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The only thing Mr. trump "loves" is sycophants-- and even then, not really.

LPT: Don't be such a rube; it makes you look silly.

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Why are you certain of that? I just don't see it.

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He doesn't love all the people in it, or the Constitution.

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I suppose you also believe he’s a great businessman? Because The Apprentice said he was. Mmmhmmm. One thing about NYC folks - they can spot a con man - probably why they voted against him so lopsidedly.

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Like Mort Zuckerman said, “he inherited $10

Million and ran it into real money.”

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LOL! He lost money in the CASINO BUSINESS!

In the 1980s!

Of course, laundering it for the Russian mob could conceivably be construed as "making real money" (for someone, at least. . .)

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More like ran it into the ground.

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https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump-reported-losses-1-billion-2-year/story?id=93860929 - but wait, don’t tell me, great businessmen personally lose millions of dollars all the time. In fact, he’s the greatest, since he lost more than anyone else!

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Hahaha - Trump loves Trump. Fact.

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founding

I got a bridge to sell this guy.

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This way to the egress. . .

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Hah!

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Yeah, Austin, because what would Jesus do? 🙄

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Trump has done nothing that prevents a faithful Catholic from supporting him.

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"Can you believe people believe that bullshit?"

-Donald J. Trump (after meeting with evangelicals in the Oval Office.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-secretly-mocks-his-christian-supporters/616522/

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yeah, I am not an Evangelical.

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In 2006 trump was not a candidate or president. I really believe he cleaned up that part of his act. As far as I know, there are no such accusations since then. Colorado won’t stand.

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Couple things. 1) all pols lie almost all the time 2) when did candidate or President Trump commit adultery 3) what insurrection?

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The point about committing adultery as a candidate or President might be answered by the fact Melania has zero to do with him anymore and Alina Habba appears to have taken over as her stand in at rallies and other events.

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(1) I have to respectfully disagree, although I' glad you can at least admit that Trump lies a lot.

(2) I don't know. Heck he was 70+ in 2016 so I'd bet he's slowed down in recent years, but don't you think that secretly paying hush money from campaign funds is also a sign of poor character?

(3) The attempted insurrection by a large group of Gravy Seals and other assorted misfits on January 6, 2021.

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1) NO one elected to the presidency lies as much as Trump and keeps lying when it's been disproven. See "the election was stolen" lie.

2) When he had an affair with Stormy Daniels in 2006. That's just his word against hers? Then why spend $130K to shut her up?

3) See the finding of the Colorado Supreme Court based on evidence presented to them that Trump did nothing to contest.

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Couple things.

1) Then why support any pols including Trump?

2 & 3) Names of your news sources?

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So a faithful Catholic is A-okay with lying, adultery, and insurrection?

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Or a faithful Catholic can be easily blinded by the allure of evil.

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And fraud, and theft, and the abuses he heaped on innocent children at the border, and rape.. he exemplifies the 7 deadly sins.

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founding

Adultery is A-ok but homosexuality is unforgivable. Because hypocrisy.

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founding

Good Lord, if that's really true I guess I'm an Episcopalian now.

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“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance; I will repay, sayeth the Lord.” Romans 12:19

Trump: “I am your retribution.” But okay, oh faithful Catholic

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Welcome to political rhetoric. Are you new around these parts?

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You’re the newbie on this board, bub.

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Well said!

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Austin, just because some Bulwark writers/subscribers use rhetoric you disagree with doesn’t change who Donald Trump has always been. A man devoid of any moral compass. You have to know this. Don’t you remember when Clinton was President and we all said “character counts”? It still does.

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founding

You ok with Trump saying he’d suspend the US Constitution?

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Hyperbole.

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founding

I witnessed the insurrection on live television. It may be comforting to pretend Trump is all hyperbole all the time, but he is a twisted, evil man.

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You watched a riot.

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founding
Jan 3·edited Jan 3

From Oxford Dictionary: insurrection- a violent uprising against an authority or government.

I witnessed a violent attempt to prevent the official transfer of governmental authority from one president to the next. And PS - Trump is an evil, twisted man.

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No you didn’t. You watched a riot, in many respects a goofy one.

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Can you point out examples of the "nuts" and "dangerous" rhetoric?

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The end of democracy! He’s going to jail or kill our children! Hitler! Mussolini! Please.

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The end of democracy because he has specifically outlined anti-democratic plans and said he plans to be a dictator. Nobody has said anything about killing children (typical straw man argument). Trump has several criminal charges pending so in fact could go to jail. Hitler is a legit comparison in several ways, as is Mussolini. Do your research on these guys and what their early statements and actions were. It was a slow steady escalation that nobody thought could or would happen. So nobody is overreacting or hysterical. This is all factually based. If you have factually based and logical arguments why Trump should be our next president, please, we are eager to hear.

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If by "several criminal charges" you mean 91 documented felonies. . .

We're feeding a troll here.

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Michael Beschloss said Trump would jail and kill “our children”. This kind of rhetoric is dangerous. What would you do to stop Hitler and his followers?

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Trump did say, he would support the on sight shooting of shoplifters....more hyperbole I'm sure.

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The end of democracy is not rhetoric. It's an argument based on Trump's actions and words. Same with the parallels to early 1930s Germany. Both are based on facts. Are they wrong? Then make the counterargument also based on facts.

Rhetoric does not require facts.

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And I've encountered many in the pro-Trump camp who insist Democrats are baby-eating demon worshippers who only win elections by stealing and are hellbent on destroying the USA. Specifics please. What specifically have the Bulwark writers said that makes you support Trump?

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You misunderstand. I supported Trump from when Cruz dropped out. I still support him. My point is that the crazy rhetoric of the never merely confirms us in our support of him. And no, you’ve never heard a conservative call you a baby-eater.

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What is your definition of a "conservative"?

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Not debating that.

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Reasonable argument for supporting a lunatic, Austin.

/s just to be clear.

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Why vote for trump? Because the election was stolen.....While buying a car, the dealer manager steered the conversation into how the last election was stolen because there was a lot of fraud (apparently all by democrats). When we pointed out that the 61 court cases and many audits in swing states demonstrated the opposite, he said he hadn't heard about those. Culture war is only part of the problem....complete ignorance is another, major, part.

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One of my close friends swears to me that Trump completed the entire wall on the Mexico border, non-stop from the Pacific to the Gulf. No matter what I tell him, his belief in this is unshakable. Maybe it's not a "cult", but it sure seems like SOME kind of religion where you either have "faith" or you don't.

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"A delusion is an unshakable belief in something that’s untrue." That seems to be the human foundation of all of this. Trump is just the vector. Seems to cut against a democracy, doesn't it, especially if so many can hold the same delusion at once? If Charlie is right and a constitutional republic is the protection against this (meaning the majority can be countered legally), then it needs to come to our rescue. Go 14th amendment!

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It's a cult, a personality cult - excessive public admiration for or devotion to a famous person, especially a political leader.

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I can't argue with that. When an individual is infallible, (as Trump clearly is to his supporters) then it's just a plain-old cult. I was just trying to be generous when I said "Maybe it's not a "cult"". Happy New Year, Sandy.

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Oh, I took you seriously. Happy year backatcha.

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"complete ignorance is another, major, part." Made possible by conspiracy theories and the now deeply help distrust of anything other than Trumpist media.

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Willful ignorance. The information is out there readily available, they just choose not to hear it.

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Agree, M. WILLFUL ignorance

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In 2016 I had an election watching party with my Canadian friends (thanks guys, you were as clueless and supportive as I hoped you would be. "Look!" they all said, as Pennsylvania went up in red flames, because they come from an electoral system that makes sense and understand nothing. "There's still... all these other states! Right? Here, have some cheese.")

Anyway. I put the Staypuff Marshmallow Man on the evite banner.

That was kind of a funny joke, at the time. A touch melodramatic.

I miss those days.

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If one of the geriatric candidates has a major health event, it better be the nazi.

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Comments like this only solidify Trump support.

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She's only making it here. I don't think there are any maybe-Trumpers here.

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Austin is a full Trumper. See his other comments

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Comments like this are common on the left. Everywhere.

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Yes, but this isn't the Twitterverse. That's my point.

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Just curious about how you define your terms: Do you consider Liz Cheney to be a leftist?

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He doesn't define terms. Just not his thing, apparently.

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And the opposite comments are EVERYWHERE from the Right. So nobody pays attention to them on either side unless you have a wish to listen to that crap and implode...

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