Studies in 2021 by Komodo Health -- using health insurance claims data -- showed the TOTAL number of teen cohort, 13-17, receiving medical attention for trans-related dysphoria (nearly exclusively puberty blockers and/or hormone treatment) was... 10,000. Out of 30,000,000 cohort members. That is .021%. Why are we even talking about this as a country?
Studies in 2021 by Komodo Health -- using health insurance claims data -- showed the TOTAL number of teen cohort, 13-17, receiving medical attention for trans-related dysphoria (nearly exclusively puberty blockers and/or hormone treatment) was... 10,000. Out of 30,000,000 cohort members. That is .021%. Why are we even talking about this as a country?
Because the right wing needs a polarizing wedge and the right wing media ecosystem smells blood. It's easy to use an issue like "trans" - foreign in many ways to the vast majority of Americans - to conjure fear. There will be no push-back on the bad-faith demonization of .021% of our population, so the fear mongering and outright lies about this group easily proliferates with difficult-to-find facts fighting a losing battle. Shameful stuff but it's become a well-worn tactic in today's GOP.
Because it gives Republicans a target to whip up hate against. People like Tucker Carlson fed off of it. Find a vulnerable group and demonize them. Fear and hate.
Agreed that trans-related dysphoria should not be a national or even state issue. Let the physicians and scientists duke it out.
That said, LGBTQ+ friendly countries like Sweden and Finland have withdrawn their support for the guidelines from WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health), while the US seems to be stuck on it.
Helen Lewis wrote in The Atlantic:
"Across the world, doctors are expressing caution over side effects, acknowledging the experimental nature of medical interventions, and entertaining the possibility that the recent surge in teenage trans identification is socially driven rather than solely evidence of previous underdiagnosis. That has put much of Europe on a different path from the United States. Either these countries—including some of the most progressive and LGBTQ-friendly nations on Earth—are secretly as right-wing as Abbott and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, or they know something America doesn’t."
Considering that at least three great American problems were iatrogenic - amphetamine abuse, opioid abuse, ADHD prescription abuse - I do not have much confidence in the self-regulation of any of the actors in the American health care system. It seems to be that the science of treating trans-related dysphoria is not settled, yet in America it is assumed to be so.
Except that examples of excesses in providing healthcare to transgender youth are BS stories like Jamie Read and St Louis. If there see actual excesses in treatment, critics of gender affirming care are welcome to provide proof. Otherwise, they are simply stoking a moral panic.
"In interviews with Reuters, doctors and other staff at 18 gender clinics across the country described their processes for evaluating patients. None described anything like the months-long assessments de Vries and her colleagues adopted in their research.
At most of the clinics, a team of professionals – typically a social worker, a psychologist and a doctor specializing in adolescent medicine or endocrinology – initially meets with the parents and child for two hours or more to get to know the family, their medical history and their goals for treatment. They also discuss the benefits and risks of treatment options. Seven of the clinics said that if they don’t see any red flags and the child and parents are in agreement, they are comfortable prescribing puberty blockers or hormones based on the first visit, depending on the age of the child."
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The positive results from de Vries' research therapies cannot be (yet) separated from their methods. The clinics taking short cuts is likely wrong. The Europeans have backed away from such treatment; while WPATH and the Americans are taking out any rigor from the process.
The accusation that Americans or WPATH are taking rigor out of the process is simply that, an accusation. We can simply ask parents of patients at the clinic in St Louis if the accusations leveled against Washington University were in any way accurate. Three months after that column appeared on Weiss site, not a SINGLE patient or parent has corroborated the story. And yet we have HUNDREDS of bills all across the country stripping agency from parents and patients. Bravo Bari Weiss. Bravo Jonathan Chait. Bravo Jesse Singal.
We can all agree to disagree about the efficacy and appropriateness of puberty-blockers and HRT, which is really an area for doctors to give their expertise.
That said, discussing gender identity in classrooms effects everyone’s kids. Trans-youth in girls/women’s sports would make those sports be taken even less seriously than they already are. Abolishing the gender binary and eliminating sex-segregated spaces like bathrooms effects everyone.
The trans-movement has very real policy goals they want to enact that go way beyond “just wanting to exist” as some social progressives argue and those issues absolutely matter. The question of who is a man/woman is fundamental and existential with far reaching legal and constitutional implications. It’s not just some trivial “culture war nonsense” with no implications for the rest of us.
Can you clarify the gender identity discussions in classrooms bit some more? Like if there is a trans cold in a class and they go over their pronouns or their new name as they make a social transition, is that a discussion about gender identity?
Too many people don't realize that not everyone is genetically male/female. When babies were born that didn't appear quite male or female doctors would get parents to agree to surgery after deciding what sex the baby should be. Now with genetic testing there are so many variables that were unknown before. From an article in the Washington Post: "Well, not entirely. Because not every person with a Y chromosome is male, and not every person with a double X is female. The world is full of people with other combinations: XXY (or Klinefelter Syndrome), XXX (or Trisomy X), XXXY and so on. There’s even something called androgen insensitivity syndrome, a condition that keeps the brains of people with a Y from absorbing the information in that chromosome. Most of these people develop as female and might not even know about their condition until puberty — or even later." I watched a documentary not long ago regarding this very issue and it was eye opening. When people don't have the knowledge about these medical situations they can be convinced that people are just deciding to be transgender when there are other factors in play.
Even more common than genetic deviations are radical swings in hormone development in utero which - at least as of today - the science is building a fairly compelling body of evidence showing just how genital biology and neurobiological orientation to gender can become misaligned.
I’d just point out that it’s a bit of a misnomer to use terms like “trans movement”, as if it were some kind of monolithic hive mind. Like those pushing the narrative from the right, often the left-most edge of the trans community garners the lions share of coverage, re: athletics and classroom awareness.
I have trans friends who agree that - especially with male-to-female transition - the impact on competitive athletics needs to be discussed. It seems pretty clear that in the Lia Thomas case, for example, 20 years of testosterone benefit was not mitigated by 18 mos of HRT and, imo, everyone involved suffered from the NCAA not having a thought-out policy and that vocal element of the community making such conversations challenging.
That said, I find the idea that it’s the end of sport and/or society if a 9yo trans-identifying child plays community sports with their identified gender ridiculous.
It’s all valid to discuss without, you know, stepping on the rights of parents of a hyper-minority of children who are trying their best for their kids along with their doctors.
I’m sure there is disagreement among people in the trans movement. I’m just saying it’s disingenuous to pretend that the movement/policy agenda doesn’t exist at all. That trans-people just want to exist and not be discriminated against, which is not true. It’s like when liberals say “LGBTQ+” as if those groups are all the same and all want the same thing from society, when in reality sexual orientation issues and gender issues are very different.
Regarding kids sports, I mean sure, and with regards to community sports leagues, even for adults, I personally don’t care if trans people are allowed to play. I just don’t think they should be allowed in competitive sports like High School, College, Professional, etc..
Considering the fact that there are broad efforts to “other” transgender youth and adults in this country, it’s not the trans community that has an agenda.
I guess what I’m saying is: I personally have not seen/heard of a transgender agenda calling for the teaching of transgenderism in grade schools etc; I HAVE witnessed anti-trans groups promote and pass laws saying no trans person, age notwithstanding, should be able to get the healthcare they and their doctors have determined is necessary.
As someone who originally came from a fairly stark pro-life background, I do not see any comparable moral imperative one could argue makes keeping a grown ass adult - as patient or parent - from pursuing such care. YMMV.
At the risk of sounding priggish, this remark does not strike me as striking the tone that the Bulwark encourages in its commenters. Plenty of other places to go for this.
Harsh. It's only being publicized because some god-damned Republican politicians can get the non-thinking mob angered enough to use THIS topic as a reason to pick them in their red district primary (most of our country's districts for the House are single party districts with no viable opposition).This has forced the national Democratic party to respond to the publicity and sensationalism and , with assholes like Desantis, extremism by creating a counter-argument to what shouldn't even be an issue in most people's political priorities in the first place. And good luck presenting a counter that doesn't seem to promote a life or lifestyle that most people were content to address as 'live and let live' before the bottomless pit of Republican political seekers saw its mob-exciting potential.
You’re clearly not interested in a rational discussion so I’m not going to give you one.
All I’m going to say is that saying “I’m right, you’re a bigot” in response to differing opinions on an extraordinarily controversial set of issues, as demonstrated by the polls Charlie cited, is a large part of the sentiment that pushes people to support Trump. I voted for Hillary/Biden and will continue to do so and the Trump deadenders are obviously a lost cause, but this kind of lack of respectful dialogue makes otherwise persuadable people want to say “screw you, I’m voting for Trump”.
But by all means, ignore the ABC/WaPo poll showing Trump and DeSantis both clobbering Biden and keep singing that tune. I’m sure it will persuade somebody.
Why are we talking about the .021% of teens getting trans-related medical attention? Because some of us don't want to talk about all the teens getting killed by gun violence.
This weekend we had a mass shooting at a mall 18 miles from me. 8 people killed, 7 wounded for no good reason other than the fact they were out shopping on a beautiful day. The usual tots and pears offered up, which work as well as the thoughts and prayers - they don't.
Allen Rep. Keith Self beclowned himself by saying when told more than prayer was needed to combat gun violence "Those people that don't believe in an almighty God who is absolutely in control of our lives. I'm a Christian. I believe that he is".
So 8 people go to a mall to get gunned down make the Almighty sound like a homicidal maniac. That's god's way?
The day tots and pears bring back a loved one so mutilated by an AR that you need DNA to identify him/her is the day I'll believe in this God they're championing by doing nothing.
Hate sells. And it's the same old/same old recycled hits of the past used to discriminate against blacks, gays, etc. The scariest part is that the GOP is looking successful into changing hate into law.
If you are the current GOP, when you have nothing else to offer that is new, different, or better, you wave the shiny bright object hoping to distract the attention of the masses (who, increasingly, refuse to enable their critical thinking abilities) away from your own failures and toward some other entity who can be labeled dangerous, deranged, or undesirable.
And, all too often, it works. In some ways it says more about us collectively than it does about them. Shame on us for enabling them with a ruse that is so easy to see through and even easier to counter -- if one is ambitious enough to try.
Why are the right so damn good at doing this? It's like they hardly even have to try, their nonsense spreads like wildfire. Is it that people naturally respond easier to the culture/power issues? Or is it that the democrats often get bogged down in wonky details? Gads, it's depressing.
My take: it is easier to react than to think, and nowadays there are too many on the right who like to take the path of least resistance, regardless of its ultimate cost, and most personal gain. Fundamentally it is about critical thinking and the willingness to actually engage with issues. The right increasingly is populated by swarms of people who thrive on others doing their thinking for them and feeding them ready-made talking points to regurgitate on cue. It is intellectually lazy to an extreme, but they are okay with being manipulated as long as the message speaks to their core beliefs and attitudes. In contrast the left tends to seek ideas and solutions rather than soundbites and targets, and even though they don't always see eye-to-eye on exactly what best to do and how, they concur that we need an agenda that is forward-looking rather than backward and in service to the community more than to the edification of the self. An oversimplification? Probably. But it seems to be the core of what I'm observing across the many issues that hit our inboxes at a given moment in time.
Thank you! I live and work in NYC (one of the places that you'd think might attract tans people) and I can count on one hand the number of trans people I've met (at least that I noticed). It's the same with sports! If the overall number of kids is .021%, can you imagine how small the number of trans-girl kid athletes there are????? I can't believe this is the stuff we waste our time on.
One “test” a trans friend of mine offers on, call it the “bathroom discourse”, is to offer pictures of Buck Angel and Aubrey (something), both trans adult actors/activists, and ask “who are you sending into the woman’s loo?”
Anti-bathroom folks tend to sputter because their answer SHOULD be Buck but he looks so obviously male (as he IS, as a male transsexual), that they see the corner they are in and can’t answer.
Male transitioners - at the mean - “pass” more clearly and fully than female transitions. The furor doesn’t boil down to “biological males in the bathroom” so much as “you don’t LOOK like a (pretty) woman so ick”. It’s the reason trans activists have been pointing out the inherent alignment in anti-misogyny even as many anti-trans feminists try to refuse the reality that common cause.
Looks to me like Republicans like to roil medical issues which should be dealt with via the Doctor’s Office or public health interventions.
Only a tiny number of people are affected, plus it is a medical issue. Politicizing it does great damage to people and institutions. Look at the past fallout from politicization of HIV and the COVID pandemic.
Much ado about nothing but the consequences are clearly aimed at a vulnerable population. The old refrain “the cruelty is the point” rings true for Republican posturing and actions.
It is amazing that among my acquaintances and the public in general how such strong feelings and reactions are impelled by an overwhelming lack of a sense of scale; on so many issues.
THANK YOU!!!! Why are legislators wasting valuable time on culture war issues, esp in red states, where their infrastructure, health care and education SUCK!!! It is such a small portion of the population!!!! I know I know, the cruelty is the point. Taking it away from kids is one thing but now they are taking it away from transitioned adults. The medical profession needs to grow a pair as people are dying due to this cruel legislation. and don't get me started on abortion legislation.
Come on we know why: the things you mentioned above would actually require ideas and proposed solutions, some of which may fail. If they do, the politicians who supported them would get blamed and would lose. However, the beauty of BS social issues is that they literally cost the politician nothing. If there are no proposals to stop the proposed wrong, you still have the issue and can complain about it on Fox so-called News until the cows come home, where your typical Wisconsin-dirt farmer cow f***ing, D-bag can blame all his problems on illegals at the Mexican Border and Black people in Chicago, or "Queers" in NYC. I mean, it sells itself.
Yeah, y’all just keep harping on Biden’s negative polls, like he is ANY moral equivalent to Trump and you will assure Trump’s election to the Presidency. We are talking catastrophe. Judge Luttig, EJ Dionne and members of the Lincoln Project are more forthright about the dangers, in my opinion. It appears to me that many who write and speak for the Bulwark appear not to believe that we are heading for sure catastrophe for our democratic republic. The talk of “pearl clutching” sickens me. Please give up trying to “save” the Republican Party.
Pete will be president. I’m one of his biggest supporters and I have no desire for him to run now. Biden is doing a fabulous job and I’m so glad he’s in charge. I think Pete will likely run for senator in MI in ‘24. That seems like a logical step.
The physicians' groups pretty uniformly oppose anything that cuts into their autonomy (to the detriment of the American healthcare system more often than not), including the trans laws.
Are they suing to get rid of them? I never hear about physicians' groups doing anything about these laws or abortion bans. Maybe they are and the press isn’t covering it. If I were a doctor, I'd be really pissed off. State inserting itself into my profession and limiting my ability to practice medicine.
It seems to me there has been wide and very vocal opposition among the medical community regarding all the new draconian laws restricting/outlawing abortion, reproductive care generally as well as transgender care sweeping the nation.
The problem is history. We only need to look back to the enthusiastic use of lobotomy to treat any kind of mental illness and it's evil twin Eugenics. Here in NC we had laws on the books through the 1970s to sterilize folks deemed useless to society.
Hot take: I don't think we should let the general public weigh in on the medical treatment of any condition affecting 0.021% of kids
If my kid had a cancer or orthopedic condition or neurodevelopmental disorder that rare, I'd skip the local pediatrician, throw him in the car, and drive off to John Hopkins. I really wouldn't care what my neighbors thought, or my congressman thought, or a poll thought about it.
The reason why this is even an issue is because of trans-female athletes participating in women's sports. Honestly, of the people I know who are generally fair-minded on most LGBTQ issues, that one issue pisses them off. Its really a no brainer: non-fully transitioned trans women should not be able to participate in women's sports. IOW, if you still have a dick, you cannot play. Its a matter of fairness.
The Dems, as usual, cannot help but step on every rake in the political yard.
I had the same reaction. Medical care shouldn't be up for public debate. Abortion opened the door to politicizing medical care. I absolutely hate this. You'd think doctors would be more upset about all this interference in their professional expertise.
Today's "Morning Shots" is heavy on poll data. As an old school and recovering market researcher, let me point out that with the near elimination of land lines, the ability to obtain a true random sample of Americans is impossible. Applying various weightings to correct for the biases caused by who tends to cooperate in phone-based polls is a dark and often inaccurate magic.
There is a much larger issue here around parent (specifically mom) shaming that happens. It’s everything from what milestones your kid hits when to how you fold their clothes. In the end, you should do what’s best for your kids and not what everyone else things you should or shouldn’t do.
Right. The premise is that gender dysphora and intersex are afflictions which can be treated. We hide the ball about that, not wanting to make those affected feel bad about themselves.
There is a legitimate public interest in these issues. If a parent were to withhold medical care believing a vegetarian diet will cure cancer, is that their exclusive right? Hence laws govern child protection even when you do not respect your neighbors. I am not saying what the appropriate public policies are here, but policy needs to be worked out from dialog with all stakeholders.
Right on. It's especially frustrating when the dumb-ass neighbors think trans is a gonad issue and not a brain issue....and probably think gender affirming counseling is designed to make kids accept their genetic gender.
Well, I do plenty of research/reading. I do not assume that any doctor’s word is gospel. After 4 years of ineffective treatment, I correctly diagnosed my own rare neurological condition and sought appropriate care. I needed antiepileptic drugs and brain surgery (not painkillers and antihistamines, as had been previously prescribed). But I am not an idiot. I know when I’m right and when I could be wrong. And I’m smart enough to know not to delve beyond my league.
I had a very similar experience. It becomes more pronounced when the condition - such as mine and yours (though they are different, they are both neurological) - are rare and not well documented. In my case, it was only recently discovered through genetic research. There are hardly any medical professionals who know anything at all about it.
Good for you, but I would bet there are thousands of instances of just the opposite for each one like you. There will always be that very rare case that most physicians have not yet heard of much less seen.
But they obviously do, so maybe putting ones pants on one leg at a time is a genetic disposition, like a pigeon's head bobbing when it walks. It doesn't require conscious thought..
Studies in 2021 by Komodo Health -- using health insurance claims data -- showed the TOTAL number of teen cohort, 13-17, receiving medical attention for trans-related dysphoria (nearly exclusively puberty blockers and/or hormone treatment) was... 10,000. Out of 30,000,000 cohort members. That is .021%. Why are we even talking about this as a country?
Because the right wing needs a polarizing wedge and the right wing media ecosystem smells blood. It's easy to use an issue like "trans" - foreign in many ways to the vast majority of Americans - to conjure fear. There will be no push-back on the bad-faith demonization of .021% of our population, so the fear mongering and outright lies about this group easily proliferates with difficult-to-find facts fighting a losing battle. Shameful stuff but it's become a well-worn tactic in today's GOP.
We are talking about it as a country because seeing a what looks like man competing as a woman freaks us out.
Because it gives Republicans a target to whip up hate against. People like Tucker Carlson fed off of it. Find a vulnerable group and demonize them. Fear and hate.
Agreed that trans-related dysphoria should not be a national or even state issue. Let the physicians and scientists duke it out.
That said, LGBTQ+ friendly countries like Sweden and Finland have withdrawn their support for the guidelines from WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health), while the US seems to be stuck on it.
Helen Lewis wrote in The Atlantic:
"Across the world, doctors are expressing caution over side effects, acknowledging the experimental nature of medical interventions, and entertaining the possibility that the recent surge in teenage trans identification is socially driven rather than solely evidence of previous underdiagnosis. That has put much of Europe on a different path from the United States. Either these countries—including some of the most progressive and LGBTQ-friendly nations on Earth—are secretly as right-wing as Abbott and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, or they know something America doesn’t."
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/texas-puberty-blockers-gender-care-transgender-rights/673941/
Considering that at least three great American problems were iatrogenic - amphetamine abuse, opioid abuse, ADHD prescription abuse - I do not have much confidence in the self-regulation of any of the actors in the American health care system. It seems to be that the science of treating trans-related dysphoria is not settled, yet in America it is assumed to be so.
Except that examples of excesses in providing healthcare to transgender youth are BS stories like Jamie Read and St Louis. If there see actual excesses in treatment, critics of gender affirming care are welcome to provide proof. Otherwise, they are simply stoking a moral panic.
1. Even if there are excesses in providing healthcare to transgender youth, I don't think there is a cause for a moral panic.
2. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/
"In interviews with Reuters, doctors and other staff at 18 gender clinics across the country described their processes for evaluating patients. None described anything like the months-long assessments de Vries and her colleagues adopted in their research.
At most of the clinics, a team of professionals – typically a social worker, a psychologist and a doctor specializing in adolescent medicine or endocrinology – initially meets with the parents and child for two hours or more to get to know the family, their medical history and their goals for treatment. They also discuss the benefits and risks of treatment options. Seven of the clinics said that if they don’t see any red flags and the child and parents are in agreement, they are comfortable prescribing puberty blockers or hormones based on the first visit, depending on the age of the child."
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The positive results from de Vries' research therapies cannot be (yet) separated from their methods. The clinics taking short cuts is likely wrong. The Europeans have backed away from such treatment; while WPATH and the Americans are taking out any rigor from the process.
The accusation that Americans or WPATH are taking rigor out of the process is simply that, an accusation. We can simply ask parents of patients at the clinic in St Louis if the accusations leveled against Washington University were in any way accurate. Three months after that column appeared on Weiss site, not a SINGLE patient or parent has corroborated the story. And yet we have HUNDREDS of bills all across the country stripping agency from parents and patients. Bravo Bari Weiss. Bravo Jonathan Chait. Bravo Jesse Singal.
We can all agree to disagree about the efficacy and appropriateness of puberty-blockers and HRT, which is really an area for doctors to give their expertise.
That said, discussing gender identity in classrooms effects everyone’s kids. Trans-youth in girls/women’s sports would make those sports be taken even less seriously than they already are. Abolishing the gender binary and eliminating sex-segregated spaces like bathrooms effects everyone.
The trans-movement has very real policy goals they want to enact that go way beyond “just wanting to exist” as some social progressives argue and those issues absolutely matter. The question of who is a man/woman is fundamental and existential with far reaching legal and constitutional implications. It’s not just some trivial “culture war nonsense” with no implications for the rest of us.
Can you clarify the gender identity discussions in classrooms bit some more? Like if there is a trans cold in a class and they go over their pronouns or their new name as they make a social transition, is that a discussion about gender identity?
Too many people don't realize that not everyone is genetically male/female. When babies were born that didn't appear quite male or female doctors would get parents to agree to surgery after deciding what sex the baby should be. Now with genetic testing there are so many variables that were unknown before. From an article in the Washington Post: "Well, not entirely. Because not every person with a Y chromosome is male, and not every person with a double X is female. The world is full of people with other combinations: XXY (or Klinefelter Syndrome), XXX (or Trisomy X), XXXY and so on. There’s even something called androgen insensitivity syndrome, a condition that keeps the brains of people with a Y from absorbing the information in that chromosome. Most of these people develop as female and might not even know about their condition until puberty — or even later." I watched a documentary not long ago regarding this very issue and it was eye opening. When people don't have the knowledge about these medical situations they can be convinced that people are just deciding to be transgender when there are other factors in play.
Even more common than genetic deviations are radical swings in hormone development in utero which - at least as of today - the science is building a fairly compelling body of evidence showing just how genital biology and neurobiological orientation to gender can become misaligned.
I’d just point out that it’s a bit of a misnomer to use terms like “trans movement”, as if it were some kind of monolithic hive mind. Like those pushing the narrative from the right, often the left-most edge of the trans community garners the lions share of coverage, re: athletics and classroom awareness.
I have trans friends who agree that - especially with male-to-female transition - the impact on competitive athletics needs to be discussed. It seems pretty clear that in the Lia Thomas case, for example, 20 years of testosterone benefit was not mitigated by 18 mos of HRT and, imo, everyone involved suffered from the NCAA not having a thought-out policy and that vocal element of the community making such conversations challenging.
That said, I find the idea that it’s the end of sport and/or society if a 9yo trans-identifying child plays community sports with their identified gender ridiculous.
It’s all valid to discuss without, you know, stepping on the rights of parents of a hyper-minority of children who are trying their best for their kids along with their doctors.
I’m sure there is disagreement among people in the trans movement. I’m just saying it’s disingenuous to pretend that the movement/policy agenda doesn’t exist at all. That trans-people just want to exist and not be discriminated against, which is not true. It’s like when liberals say “LGBTQ+” as if those groups are all the same and all want the same thing from society, when in reality sexual orientation issues and gender issues are very different.
Regarding kids sports, I mean sure, and with regards to community sports leagues, even for adults, I personally don’t care if trans people are allowed to play. I just don’t think they should be allowed in competitive sports like High School, College, Professional, etc..
Considering the fact that there are broad efforts to “other” transgender youth and adults in this country, it’s not the trans community that has an agenda.
I guess what I’m saying is: I personally have not seen/heard of a transgender agenda calling for the teaching of transgenderism in grade schools etc; I HAVE witnessed anti-trans groups promote and pass laws saying no trans person, age notwithstanding, should be able to get the healthcare they and their doctors have determined is necessary.
As someone who originally came from a fairly stark pro-life background, I do not see any comparable moral imperative one could argue makes keeping a grown ass adult - as patient or parent - from pursuing such care. YMMV.
At the risk of sounding priggish, this remark does not strike me as striking the tone that the Bulwark encourages in its commenters. Plenty of other places to go for this.
Harsh. It's only being publicized because some god-damned Republican politicians can get the non-thinking mob angered enough to use THIS topic as a reason to pick them in their red district primary (most of our country's districts for the House are single party districts with no viable opposition).This has forced the national Democratic party to respond to the publicity and sensationalism and , with assholes like Desantis, extremism by creating a counter-argument to what shouldn't even be an issue in most people's political priorities in the first place. And good luck presenting a counter that doesn't seem to promote a life or lifestyle that most people were content to address as 'live and let live' before the bottomless pit of Republican political seekers saw its mob-exciting potential.
Very persuasive. I can see you’ve put a lot of thought into this.
You’re clearly not interested in a rational discussion so I’m not going to give you one.
All I’m going to say is that saying “I’m right, you’re a bigot” in response to differing opinions on an extraordinarily controversial set of issues, as demonstrated by the polls Charlie cited, is a large part of the sentiment that pushes people to support Trump. I voted for Hillary/Biden and will continue to do so and the Trump deadenders are obviously a lost cause, but this kind of lack of respectful dialogue makes otherwise persuadable people want to say “screw you, I’m voting for Trump”.
But by all means, ignore the ABC/WaPo poll showing Trump and DeSantis both clobbering Biden and keep singing that tune. I’m sure it will persuade somebody.
Why are we talking about the .021% of teens getting trans-related medical attention? Because some of us don't want to talk about all the teens getting killed by gun violence.
Bingo!
This weekend we had a mass shooting at a mall 18 miles from me. 8 people killed, 7 wounded for no good reason other than the fact they were out shopping on a beautiful day. The usual tots and pears offered up, which work as well as the thoughts and prayers - they don't.
Allen Rep. Keith Self beclowned himself by saying when told more than prayer was needed to combat gun violence "Those people that don't believe in an almighty God who is absolutely in control of our lives. I'm a Christian. I believe that he is".
So 8 people go to a mall to get gunned down make the Almighty sound like a homicidal maniac. That's god's way?
The day tots and pears bring back a loved one so mutilated by an AR that you need DNA to identify him/her is the day I'll believe in this God they're championing by doing nothing.
Sorry, rant over.
Or my kids or grandkids.
To be brief, its because very vocal people are willing to die on this hill in front of as many cameras that will cover it.
Hate sells. And it's the same old/same old recycled hits of the past used to discriminate against blacks, gays, etc. The scariest part is that the GOP is looking successful into changing hate into law.
It's much easier to be reactionary and to reflexively hate than it is to do one's own thinking.
In two words: "Look, squirrel!"
If you are the current GOP, when you have nothing else to offer that is new, different, or better, you wave the shiny bright object hoping to distract the attention of the masses (who, increasingly, refuse to enable their critical thinking abilities) away from your own failures and toward some other entity who can be labeled dangerous, deranged, or undesirable.
And, all too often, it works. In some ways it says more about us collectively than it does about them. Shame on us for enabling them with a ruse that is so easy to see through and even easier to counter -- if one is ambitious enough to try.
Why are the right so damn good at doing this? It's like they hardly even have to try, their nonsense spreads like wildfire. Is it that people naturally respond easier to the culture/power issues? Or is it that the democrats often get bogged down in wonky details? Gads, it's depressing.
My take: it is easier to react than to think, and nowadays there are too many on the right who like to take the path of least resistance, regardless of its ultimate cost, and most personal gain. Fundamentally it is about critical thinking and the willingness to actually engage with issues. The right increasingly is populated by swarms of people who thrive on others doing their thinking for them and feeding them ready-made talking points to regurgitate on cue. It is intellectually lazy to an extreme, but they are okay with being manipulated as long as the message speaks to their core beliefs and attitudes. In contrast the left tends to seek ideas and solutions rather than soundbites and targets, and even though they don't always see eye-to-eye on exactly what best to do and how, they concur that we need an agenda that is forward-looking rather than backward and in service to the community more than to the edification of the self. An oversimplification? Probably. But it seems to be the core of what I'm observing across the many issues that hit our inboxes at a given moment in time.
Because they have a huge media infrastructure to do exactly that, that they’ve been building for decades. Doom loop.
Thank you! I live and work in NYC (one of the places that you'd think might attract tans people) and I can count on one hand the number of trans people I've met (at least that I noticed). It's the same with sports! If the overall number of kids is .021%, can you imagine how small the number of trans-girl kid athletes there are????? I can't believe this is the stuff we waste our time on.
And, have you seen pictures of trans men? And you want them to be force to play as their gender on their birth certificates?
One “test” a trans friend of mine offers on, call it the “bathroom discourse”, is to offer pictures of Buck Angel and Aubrey (something), both trans adult actors/activists, and ask “who are you sending into the woman’s loo?”
Anti-bathroom folks tend to sputter because their answer SHOULD be Buck but he looks so obviously male (as he IS, as a male transsexual), that they see the corner they are in and can’t answer.
Male transitioners - at the mean - “pass” more clearly and fully than female transitions. The furor doesn’t boil down to “biological males in the bathroom” so much as “you don’t LOOK like a (pretty) woman so ick”. It’s the reason trans activists have been pointing out the inherent alignment in anti-misogyny even as many anti-trans feminists try to refuse the reality that common cause.
Absolutely true.
Great point!!!!!
Looks to me like Republicans like to roil medical issues which should be dealt with via the Doctor’s Office or public health interventions.
Only a tiny number of people are affected, plus it is a medical issue. Politicizing it does great damage to people and institutions. Look at the past fallout from politicization of HIV and the COVID pandemic.
Much ado about nothing but the consequences are clearly aimed at a vulnerable population. The old refrain “the cruelty is the point” rings true for Republican posturing and actions.
Because Gay Panic is so out of date but Trans Panic is the new hotness?
Good One.
It is amazing that among my acquaintances and the public in general how such strong feelings and reactions are impelled by an overwhelming lack of a sense of scale; on so many issues.
THANK YOU!!!! Why are legislators wasting valuable time on culture war issues, esp in red states, where their infrastructure, health care and education SUCK!!! It is such a small portion of the population!!!! I know I know, the cruelty is the point. Taking it away from kids is one thing but now they are taking it away from transitioned adults. The medical profession needs to grow a pair as people are dying due to this cruel legislation. and don't get me started on abortion legislation.
Come on we know why: the things you mentioned above would actually require ideas and proposed solutions, some of which may fail. If they do, the politicians who supported them would get blamed and would lose. However, the beauty of BS social issues is that they literally cost the politician nothing. If there are no proposals to stop the proposed wrong, you still have the issue and can complain about it on Fox so-called News until the cows come home, where your typical Wisconsin-dirt farmer cow f***ing, D-bag can blame all his problems on illegals at the Mexican Border and Black people in Chicago, or "Queers" in NYC. I mean, it sells itself.
Yeah, y’all just keep harping on Biden’s negative polls, like he is ANY moral equivalent to Trump and you will assure Trump’s election to the Presidency. We are talking catastrophe. Judge Luttig, EJ Dionne and members of the Lincoln Project are more forthright about the dangers, in my opinion. It appears to me that many who write and speak for the Bulwark appear not to believe that we are heading for sure catastrophe for our democratic republic. The talk of “pearl clutching” sickens me. Please give up trying to “save” the Republican Party.
I personally believe all these Biden is doomed pearl-clutchers are looking for some reason to try and run Buttigieg.
I will repeat what I have said before: Buttigieg will never be POTUS; if Biden is having problems, Buttigieg's will be worse.
Pete will be president. I’m one of his biggest supporters and I have no desire for him to run now. Biden is doing a fabulous job and I’m so glad he’s in charge. I think Pete will likely run for senator in MI in ‘24. That seems like a logical step.
The physicians' groups pretty uniformly oppose anything that cuts into their autonomy (to the detriment of the American healthcare system more often than not), including the trans laws.
Are they suing to get rid of them? I never hear about physicians' groups doing anything about these laws or abortion bans. Maybe they are and the press isn’t covering it. If I were a doctor, I'd be really pissed off. State inserting itself into my profession and limiting my ability to practice medicine.
It seems to me there has been wide and very vocal opposition among the medical community regarding all the new draconian laws restricting/outlawing abortion, reproductive care generally as well as transgender care sweeping the nation.
The problem is history. We only need to look back to the enthusiastic use of lobotomy to treat any kind of mental illness and it's evil twin Eugenics. Here in NC we had laws on the books through the 1970s to sterilize folks deemed useless to society.
How come you still have Republicans then?
Not to mention the wide prescribing of opioids...
Hot take: I don't think we should let the general public weigh in on the medical treatment of any condition affecting 0.021% of kids
If my kid had a cancer or orthopedic condition or neurodevelopmental disorder that rare, I'd skip the local pediatrician, throw him in the car, and drive off to John Hopkins. I really wouldn't care what my neighbors thought, or my congressman thought, or a poll thought about it.
The reason why this is even an issue is because of trans-female athletes participating in women's sports. Honestly, of the people I know who are generally fair-minded on most LGBTQ issues, that one issue pisses them off. Its really a no brainer: non-fully transitioned trans women should not be able to participate in women's sports. IOW, if you still have a dick, you cannot play. Its a matter of fairness.
The Dems, as usual, cannot help but step on every rake in the political yard.
I had the same reaction. Medical care shouldn't be up for public debate. Abortion opened the door to politicizing medical care. I absolutely hate this. You'd think doctors would be more upset about all this interference in their professional expertise.
Today's "Morning Shots" is heavy on poll data. As an old school and recovering market researcher, let me point out that with the near elimination of land lines, the ability to obtain a true random sample of Americans is impossible. Applying various weightings to correct for the biases caused by who tends to cooperate in phone-based polls is a dark and often inaccurate magic.
And we don't even answer our land line anymore unless caller ID says its someone we know. Otherwise, it's almost 100% spam.
Thank you. My Poli Sci degree is forty years old and even I remember what crap your results are if your sample is skewed.
There is a much larger issue here around parent (specifically mom) shaming that happens. It’s everything from what milestones your kid hits when to how you fold their clothes. In the end, you should do what’s best for your kids and not what everyone else things you should or shouldn’t do.
The whole idea of polling my dumb-ass neighbors about which medical treatments people should receive makes my skin crawl with horror.
Right. The premise is that gender dysphora and intersex are afflictions which can be treated. We hide the ball about that, not wanting to make those affected feel bad about themselves.
Gender dysphoria is an affliction which can be treated. The best proven treatment is transition.
I get that.
There is a legitimate public interest in these issues. If a parent were to withhold medical care believing a vegetarian diet will cure cancer, is that their exclusive right? Hence laws govern child protection even when you do not respect your neighbors. I am not saying what the appropriate public policies are here, but policy needs to be worked out from dialog with all stakeholders.
There's a difference between child neglect/abuse and medical care. Except in Texas.
Right on. It's especially frustrating when the dumb-ass neighbors think trans is a gonad issue and not a brain issue....and probably think gender affirming counseling is designed to make kids accept their genetic gender.
Right? People don't know what hormones are!
I met a man once who thought only women had thyroids. He was legit shocked when I told him I was feeling for his thyroid.
People like this will then tell you with a straight face that they "did their own research."
In Michael Scott's voice (The Office)" That's what she said!".
What my younger sister, a trump supporter, anti-vaxx, Covid long haul survivor says when confronted with actual research.
I cannot break through a wall of obstinance that was way more durable than the physical wall the orange one built.
If it's any consolation, I think there are very few families in America that don't have impenetratably brainwashed members.
Just last week I told my doctor that I no longer use that phrase because it’s so tainted by the stupid. I now say “I’ve been reading . . .”
"From what I've read. . ."
Well, I do plenty of research/reading. I do not assume that any doctor’s word is gospel. After 4 years of ineffective treatment, I correctly diagnosed my own rare neurological condition and sought appropriate care. I needed antiepileptic drugs and brain surgery (not painkillers and antihistamines, as had been previously prescribed). But I am not an idiot. I know when I’m right and when I could be wrong. And I’m smart enough to know not to delve beyond my league.
I had a very similar experience. It becomes more pronounced when the condition - such as mine and yours (though they are different, they are both neurological) - are rare and not well documented. In my case, it was only recently discovered through genetic research. There are hardly any medical professionals who know anything at all about it.
Good for you, but I would bet there are thousands of instances of just the opposite for each one like you. There will always be that very rare case that most physicians have not yet heard of much less seen.
But they obviously do, so maybe putting ones pants on one leg at a time is a genetic disposition, like a pigeon's head bobbing when it walks. It doesn't require conscious thought..
We are talking about it because it's the GOPs new "Obama Death Panels" and "CRT."